Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

topic posted Sun, February 17, 2008 - 2:38 AM by  REBECCA
Hi, Im considering the possibilty of organising and running a hoop class. This is not going to be for a few months yet but im looking into it. Does anybody know anything about Public Liability Insurance? For example, How much does it cost? Where can i get it from? If anyone out there runs a class, please, i would love your advice. Also, would it cover you if you went to a school and did a hoop workshop. if i am running 2 different classes in different venues and doing workshops does one policy cover me. As you can tell i know nothing about all this. Also i think this thread would be really helpfull for all those considering starting up a hoop class or meet.
posted by:
REBECCA
United Kingdom
  • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

    Sun, February 17, 2008 - 3:12 PM
    Hi Rebecca,

    Not sure how relevant my insurance info will be for you as I get mine as a fitness instructor, but I think the prices will be similar.

    In total I pay about £100 for basic Public Liability insurance. If you google it, you should get some companies who offer it to non fitness instructors. My policy covers Me, so it applies regardless of venue/class etc. The age limit is restricted from 14 - 65 I think but in the process of renewing so need to check).

    A couple of other things you will also need to consider though - if you intend to use music for your classes, you will need a PPL licence (www.ppluk.com/) to allow you to play music in public (approx £85), and you will need to ensure that the venue you use has a PRS licence (Performing Rights Society). The PRS is not usually a problem as nearly all public venues have one but it is worth checking if you're not sure.

    If you intend to teach children, you should also get CRB checked but the law doesn't currently allow individuals to apply themselves so not sure if anyone knows of a way around this (I'm getting mine done through the leisure centre who employ me as a fitness instrcutor.)

    I think that covers everything!
    • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

      Mon, February 18, 2008 - 4:57 AM
      Hi, Kitty, Thanks for that. I have tried googling it many times before but i get overwhelmed at the amount of results and not evven sure what im looking for. Also, i understand about you being a fitness instuctor and getting you public liability insurance for that. But would hoop dance always come under fitness? I have a degree in performing arts and would want to teach it as a performance art, like circus skills ect, not as a fitness class.
      So thats good anyway what you said about it insuring you so once you have it you can teach it in any venue and you are covered. I think i will have to ring around a few companies and see if thay can help me, i had this problem before when i wanted to run drama workshops, i got fazed by all the legalities and so on....
      I dont want to do it for the money, it just seems like you would have to charge a lot for the classes just to break even, with hall hire, insurance, music licence ect., dontcha think?
      • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

        Mon, February 18, 2008 - 5:11 AM
        Rebecca, I asked someone who works in the insurance industry this question a while back. He recommended me to speak to this lady;
        "Mary Saul - Offley Ins. Brokers. very good. 0151 356 2441 or 0780 2977245. marysaul@offleyinsurance.co..uk. Mention my name (Michael Bibb), it should be no more than £150 - she will ask about your experience, age group and if you will be teaching people with disabilities."

        She's with a broker, so won't just be able to recommend one company. She should be able to find you the company that suits your needs best. I haven't actually done this yet because I've not needed to. But I see no reason why you shouldn't call her and tell her you got the number from a friend of Michael.
      • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

        Mon, February 18, 2008 - 6:20 AM
        Hi Rebecca,

        When I said about my insurance being for fitness, I wasn't classing hoopdance under that (sorry, should have made the distinction clearer), what I mean is, that it is the route I am able to use as I am already a fitness instructor. But to get the insurance I have to provide evidence that I am qualified to teach fitness with an accredited organisation. I feel fortunate that I already have all the licences etc which will enable me to teach hoopdance without much further consideration.

        I agree about the costs, plus if you factor in the cost of training to become a certified hoopdance instructor (which you're not obliged to do, but I personally feel will help to make you more credible), and the cost of your hoops as well, it becomes an expensive endeavour.

        I have a spreadsheet which I put all my costs into and it calculates how many people I need in a class to break even.

        Something I forgot to mention before: Tax. If you're planning on making money (even if it's not a profit) from teaching hoopdance, you are basically starting a small business and will need to register with HMRC as self employed and so be obliged to fill in tax returns.

        Sorry if this is information overload, but it's better to be safe and covered for everything than end up with a fine from the Tax Man, PPL or an insurance claim against you.
        • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

          Mon, February 18, 2008 - 2:57 PM
          Thanks so much guys for the help. Its definately given me a lot to think about, and to be getting on with. Its a good job i like to research. I have one question though - why does everything have to be so complicated? i mean, whats wrong with putting up posters and charging just enough to cover the cost of the church hall? Tax, insurance, licences........this is the real world i guess.
          • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

            Mon, February 18, 2008 - 3:22 PM
            The UK likes to make things hard for small business ventures! But that's just my opinion ;~)

            Sadly we have become a very litigious society and so everyone has to cover themselves all the time. The liability insurance for our theatre would make your hair stand on end!

            Let us know how you get on. I will have to do all this after I've got my teaching training in the summer.
            • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

              Mon, February 18, 2008 - 3:41 PM
              Yeah, i will. I am hoping to start some drama workshops in my local area as this is something i have wanted to do for a while, and then look to teaching hoopdance when Im better, i was thinking in the summertime. I have not been hooping that long but i am picking it up so fast, i am quite comfortable with most of the moves on the hoopdance for beginners dvd, (I learnt eagle today!) - I have lots of yoga and dance experience so i guess that helps. I am thinking of booking onto the teacher training in July. Ideally id like to be certain of my abilities as an hooper before making such a large (£300 to me is large) financial commitment, but July is a while away so enough time to practise, i would not want to have to wait till next year. I know that most people would tell me to wait, but I have fallen in love with hooping and im prepared to take the risk, as most people, no matter who or what they are in love with, are. x
              • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

                Tue, February 19, 2008 - 1:24 AM
                I agree with Sue, the UK is not an easy place in which to be an entrepreneur without a huge cash backing.

                Plenty of people do just stick up posters and do classes in all kinds of things, but as Sue said, society today is so litigious (sp?) that even the slightest problem could ruin you financially and career wise for a long time. I would never risk it and as such, will probably never be rich, but still doing what I love.

                Good luck with it all, and shout if you need more help. I didn't realise I knew what I did until I wrote it all down! I've been teaching (fitness) for 4 years now so I guess something must have sunk in!

                Keep us posted
              • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

                Tue, February 19, 2008 - 3:20 AM
                You will be fine for the training in July.

                I thought I was picking things up fast when I got going, but now I realise I'm a bit of a tortoise really compared to all you youngsters but I'm going anyway for the fun of it. I will have been hooping a year then and I'm confident that I could cope with it now, even if I couldn't do all the moves. Half of teaching is enthusiasm.
                • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

                  Sat, April 19, 2008 - 1:46 AM
                  I've never taken out public liability insurance for any of my hooping activities. I've spoken to a few advisors on this matter. If you think about it, what is the absolute worst that can happen during a hoop class? To the level that someone would claim compensation from you?

                  If you can draw up a 'no liability' document and ask your participants to sign, that should be enough. If anything happens because of the venue you are using, then that's the venue's insurance, not yours.

                  If someone seriously injures themselves using a hula hoop then that's hardly your fault is it? People should always consult with their doctor before taking up exercise especially if they think it might cause problems.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

                    Sat, April 19, 2008 - 4:35 AM
                    You would be surprised just what some people will sue you for. If you run classes regularly or sell hoops to the people that come, you really need to be covered.
                    • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

                      Mon, April 21, 2008 - 10:09 AM
                      I'm with Skully on this one. It's not just about what injuries a hoop can cause. For example, if someone had an underlying heart condition, and has a heart attack caused by strenuous activity, you could be held liable. I don't think a waiver would protect you that far. If you ever ended up in court, over even the smallest claim, it would most likely ruin your business and reputation. It's not worth the risk IMO.

                      I have participants sign a health questionnaire as well as having insurance. Plus, when I qualified as a Fitness Instructor, we had to spend quite a while studying and understanding your duty of care as a fitness professional. I think we have a similar duty of care as Hoop Professionals. We need to be seen to be taking the best care of our clients.

                      Unfortunately, despite the good will & sense of community that we have in here as fellow hoopers, we live in a very litiginous (sp?) society, and people WILL screw you given half a chance, and the authorities will do likewise if you don't have the right licences & checks (PPL, CRB etc)
          • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

            Tue, April 22, 2008 - 12:03 AM
            Hi Rebecca,
            Could I suggest you reconsider your costings a little?
            Everyone has given helpful info on public liability insurance, so I have nothing to add there, but I would suggest that you also need to consider the value of your own time and effort in putting together the classes and teaching. If you are teaching in a venue that doesn't have a comprehensive licence, you will also need a PPL to cover you for playing music. Mine cost just over £88 and is not the most expensive by any means! Look at www.ppluk.com/ for further information.

            Try not to think of covering only your basic costs (tax, insurance, hire charges) but also consider the time spent making your hoops, the cost of materials, wear and tear on hoops etc. If you don't take all this into account now, you will find you are struggling a bit further down the line when it will all seem a bit too expensive to continue.

            I agree with Sue in that it is very expensive to run a small business and you have to take all kinds of things into account when pricing your goods or services.

            Good luck with it all - it is worth it!
            • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

              Tue, April 22, 2008 - 12:05 AM
              Sorry - just gone back and read the rest of the thread, so I was just repeating everything. Oh well.... it was written with the best of intentions!!
              • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

                Tue, April 22, 2008 - 1:09 AM
                I think you did also make an additional valid point Diana about costing in your time, both making hoops and teaching classes, in addition to the wear & tear on your hoops.

                You should also really factor in storage of the hoops ( i know it's probably at home, but it costs to heat and light your home), use of your vehicle, purchase of specialist clothing ( i know most prob will just wear normal sports kit etc, but you will wear stuff out faster). These are all the kinds of unseen overheads that a business should factr in.

                All that said, I still really struggle to price my hoops and classes etc as I hate to feel like I'm ripping people off!
                • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

                  Fri, April 25, 2008 - 9:35 AM
                  Hi Guys,

                  I have been very quiet on here I have met a few people and have been hooping for about 7/8 months now and want to set up classes (I am up in Cumbria and think I am fairly isolated in terms of hooping if anyone is around please get in touch!!!) i managed to get business from home insurance for £53 for the year through Direct line to cover my public liability insurance up to 2 million and product liability for £2million for making and selling my hoops. Basically I am listed as a Fitness Trainer ( I am not qualified they know this) who works from home but who instructs hula hoop classes in third party premises including gyms halls and they siad I can teach anywhere except oil rigs (They were quite specific about the oil rigs so don't go sneaking in a few classes on one on a weekend!)
                  I am insured to make and sell my hoops from piping, connectors and tape and sell them from classes or website (when I get a website) and they let me throw in my massage business (all above board) as a second trade for no extra cost.
                  I was a bit concerned when they sent out the policy as it literally just said "fitness trainer" and nothing else so I called them and she confirmed and read out all the above details and they're listed on their system under my business name but they will also send me out a letter so I have it in writing that they know what I do. Anyway this is a very long post but I thought it was a very cheap and they also insure your hoops in transit, at fairs in the house just as stock. So I thought I'd share. So now I have to find a Venue and persuade the good people of Barrow they want to hoop Wish me luck xxxxxx
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

                    Fri, April 25, 2008 - 10:45 AM
                    Hi Gail,

                    I wished I had known this before as I've just taken out public liability, which cost me £82. I've already paid for it, however I'm sure like anything I should be able to cancel within 14 days. I'll call direct line out of curiosity to see what they say.

                    Good luck with your venue hunt and trying to gather enough troops together. I've just taken my first class and 4 turned up. A few had said they could not attend this week, so hopefully next week I'll have more particpants.. Your comments were very valid.

                    Michelle
                    • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

                      Sat, April 26, 2008 - 6:00 AM
                      Sorry Michelle i just got the policy through on Thursday and I wanted to check it through before I posted on here. Call Directline and see what they say . Also for bumping up numbers for your classes try schools, not for the pupils but for the teachers, quite a few in the schools I work in have said they are interested. It's probably worth doing posters and asking if they can be put on notice boards in the staff rooms in your local schools
                      I hope it all goes well for you xx
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

                    Thu, June 5, 2008 - 7:26 AM
                    Hi All,
                    Just been speaking to Direct Line and it turns out they do not provide product liability for making and selling hoops from home. If you have taken this insurance with them and are a hoop maker, you are covered for public liability (ie teaching hooping) but not product liability.
                    Sorry - thought you should know.... I've just been on the phone for about 15 minutes discussing the details of hoop making so that they could be relayed to the underwriter...
  • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

    Sat, April 26, 2008 - 9:12 AM
    Just looked into the Business from Home option via Directline and it would be vastly more expensive for me - I guess that is because I live in London! Better check, Michelle, before you change anything!
    • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

      Tue, May 6, 2008 - 12:47 AM
      Hello all, i have a question too if you don't mind
      I've been hooping for about a year now and am totally confident with all the basic moves. I'm looking to go on the HoopGirl course in Bham on 3-4th Aug and then start my own hoop classes.
      You have all given really helpful advise on the nitty gritty of everything but you all seem to be already trained fitness instructors or dancers etc. I am very fit and healthy but have no fitness instructor qualifications.
      If i get all of the things mentioned (public liability, ppl, PRS, register with HMRC etc) is there anything else i will need if i only have the american HoopGirl level 1 qualification?
      any help will be much appreciated and i'm sorry if i have mis read any existing posts on this
      thanks xx
      • Hi Gems,

        Although it isn't necessary to become a qualified fitness instructor, it is recommended as it will teach you to:

        Identify the major bones, muscles and muscle actions of the body
        Explain the workings of the body's cardiovascular and energy systems
        Identify the components and principles of fitness
        Relate the Health and Safety at Work Act to the studio environment
        Identify good customer care and strategies for the adoption and maintenance of physical activity
        Plan, teach and evaluate a studio session in a variety of styles
        Demonstrate good personal technique and form when teaching a session
        Content

        Anatomy and physiology
        The components and principles of fitness
        Relevant skills and knowledge needed to design and teach studio classes in a variety of styles, from hi/lo to body conditioning
        Methods of delivery
        Health, Safety and Professionalism in Exercise
        An introduction to CPD Modules

        (Taken from YMCAFit website: www.ymcafit.org.uk/coursedetail.php

        Apart from that, and the licences & registrations you mentioned, you will be all set up once you have qualified with Hoopgirl and purchased your instructor licence from her if you wish to teach the Hoopgirl programme.

        Kitty
        • Oops, and what I meant to add to this essay was that all the stuff they will teach you will ensure that you are able to best look after the safety and wellbeing of your clients.

          I personally wouldn't like to teach hooping to people without this training. Although I had been exercising for a long time before I trained as a fitness instructor, until I did the course, I didn't realise how involved it was to be an instructor and how much an instructor of any physical activity needs to know about the human body, the safety aspects of how one uses ones body to exercise, the effects of exercise etc

          Kitty

          • thanks for your advise Kitty i really appreciate it. the only prob is at the moment getting the time and cash flow to invest in two courses!
            i guess i could start with my beginners classes and take the course later in the year if it's not strictly necessary? i've got tons of books on anatomy and physiology and my partner who would be helping did a years course in sports science
            has anyone here taken the HoopGirl course, do you know if it covers all of these questions and start up queries while you're there?
            happy hooping
            • hi gems, I've taken the Hoop Girl level 1 and I'm finding this thread quite interesting! The reason being on how the focus seems to be so much on physiology and fitness etc (I know this happened because it followed on from insurance etc).

              I felt the main focus of the level 1 was how to physically run a class. There wasn't a lot of emphasis on actually learning the move yourself, although I certainly did improve on some and came away with some new ones!

              The teaching style lends itself very well to NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) around how to recognise different learning styles, confidence levels of participants, how to encourage everyone to make the most of it etc. It also uses a lot of imagery like waves and birds and mountain tops! I'm going to use this phrase in the nicest possible way, but there were aspects of it that were so 'happy-clappy' that it made me giggle inside! I loved it though.

              I found the training focused more on how to create an holistic learning experience through hoop dance and how to physically create the right environment to learn. Also how to build confidence in people and encourage them to want to learn and have fun!

              i remember one girl in my first class crying and running off. She never came back. ;( I think she expected some kind of drill/fitness class and couldn't handle it when she had to pair up and hand-hoop whilst being chased by someone trying to get the hoop from her!

              There is part of the training that covers insurance, starting up, advertising etc etc. Unfortunately a lot of the references in the manual last year were american but between us all we were able to exchange some good UK knowledge.

              Just as an aside, another way to get public liability insurance is through Equity but this is more as a performer i think rather than an instructor.

              x
            • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

              Thu, May 8, 2008 - 12:21 PM
              Hi, I just wanted to say that i don't do hooping for fitness, that is a bonus, and if i were lucky enough to find any hoop dance classes in my area, i would be looking to learn hoop as an artform, not as a fitness activity.
              just as Kitty is a trained fitness instructor, and can bring lots of her knowledge and experience of fitness to teaching hoopdance, there are lots of great hoopdance teachers out there who are not trained fitness instructors, and have come from many different backgrounds.
              Obviously its important to know how to warm up and cool down, when you are dancing. But if you are looking to teach hoopdance as an art rather than a keep fit class then as long as you are a good hooper, and attend a good teacher training course like hoopgirl, then i cant see any reason why you would not be able to run fantastic hooping classes. As Sue said earlier, half of teaching is enthusiasm.
      • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

        Mon, May 12, 2008 - 3:39 AM
        Hi Gems

        Just to give you some comfort, I am not a fitness instructor nor have I done any fitness training apart from the Hoop training. However I would like to or maybe consider doing the Fitness to Music course just to educate my self that I learn how the body works and the muscles as I feel this is important in order to avoid injuries.

        Michelle
  • Re: Public Liabilty Insurance for hoop class

    Mon, May 12, 2008 - 3:33 AM
    Hi

    Just read this one sorry. I actually insured with Performance Direct which cost me £82 however, I don't think it covers equipment etc. Tried calling them to verify and they said I'd have to take out another policy with them. There cancellation fee was costly so I thought I best keep it and check with Direct Line.

    I got mine also for £52.50 to be exact. It covers my Computer equipment, camera, video camera and stock. I think Diana it may depend on what you were asking to be covered, ie if your a limited company, employers liability etc. I insured as a Sole trader with no employees.

    Michelle

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