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Despite being a big fan of Robert Anton Wilson and his Maybe Logic, I keep finding myself "correcting" the beliefs of others. Although my beliefs tend to be backed by research and evidence, I understand that they are still merely reality tunnels, and are not necessarily reality itself. When I hear about how dolphins evolved from the people of Atlantis, or how the Annunaki settled Earth genetically engineered humans, or how dinosaur fossils are remnants of the great flood, it's like nails on a chalkboard for me. I wish I could be more tolerant and open-minded of such beliefs. I understand that I'm not omniscient, but I often find myself acting like I am. I feel hypocritical because I'm not a scientific materialist, yet I often defer to science as the authoritative source on such matters, even though often I defer to spiritual teachings on matters such as consciousness. Are there any techniques you use to overcome such certainty?
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Tue, May 20, 2008 - 5:44 PMre: "Are there any techniques you use to overcome such certainty?"
As you have discovered, beliefs tend to firm up the illusion of certainty. It almost doesn't matter what the belief is, its function seems to be the same: protecting fragile psyches from the more strident reality of uncertainty. People need their pet beliefs and dogmas to take the edge off realities too harsh for their current ego structures. In this way, beliefs serve the purpose of buffering us from more truth than we are ready and/or willing to live with.
The signals of ANNOYANCE and IIRRITATION betray the existence of our buffers, our fixed assumptionjs and beliefs. When something or someone really annoys you, it's probably going to be important.
As for techniques to overcome certainty, I suggest relaxing the "meaning reflex", ie., relaxing the tendency to project or assume meaning onto your perceptions. This technique helps cultivate "the second attention". The first attention is that awareness linked to the thinking mechanism, language and the automatic assignment of meaning to whatever is perceived. The second attention is that awareness linked to presence, energy and phenomena without assigning any meaning whatsoever. It expresses more of a pure seeing.
ideally, the two attentions are meant to work together however, the first attention has a clear monopoly of the human mind, at least in Western culture, and why so many of us are tyrannized by it. As we are tyrranized, so then do we tend to tyrannize lothers; we can't help it. It's a reflex; the meaning reflex. "My meaning is more meaningful than yours. Your meaning is bogus."
The need to "be sure" might also be a misgiuded attempt to meet a security need where no security is required. Meet your security needs more directly and free yourself of the need to be sure. Learn to permit more uncertainty.
"The border between the Real and the Unreal is not fixed, but just marks the last place where rival gangs of shamans fought each other to a standstill." -- Robert Anton Wilson -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Tue, May 20, 2008 - 11:09 PM"The border between the Real and the Unreal is not fixed, but just marks the last place where rival gangs of shamans fought each other to a standstill." -- Robert Anton Wilson
is there any way of fighting back...? -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Wed, May 21, 2008 - 3:33 PMyour just a little fucking thorn aren't you! -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Wed, May 21, 2008 - 4:01 PMLOL...the whole purpose of a little fucking thorn is to fight back, innit ? -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Wed, May 21, 2008 - 4:16 PMyea but what is he protecting! -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Wed, May 21, 2008 - 4:46 PMa rose of a different color ? -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Thu, May 22, 2008 - 1:32 AM -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Overcoming Belief
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 3:28 AMsorry that I cursed at you Orpheus...i was being a tad territorial.. -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 3:39 AMforgive them father for they know not what they do... hahaha -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Sat, January 3, 2009 - 7:04 PM -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Mon, January 12, 2009 - 2:37 PMwww.cbc.ca/documentarie...hangesitself/
The full episode is available, and HIGHLY, HIGHLY worth watching: www.cbc.ca/documentarie...yer_tnot.html
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Mon, January 12, 2009 - 10:51 PMI had an overcoming belief growing up that the Southern Baptist Church had the whole truth and it made me nervous, and felt like I wasn't sure what was real or if I was a good person. It made me feel shameful and negative. As I grew up, and discovered Robert Anton Wilson, and yeah, well just sex in general, I began to think a little more for myself and eventually realized that some people's beliefs don't support who I am.
Oh, yeah, I've had dolphin dreams that seem real, like some telepathic communication was going on, but hey, that's just me.
Peace,
Ron
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Tue, January 13, 2009 - 4:22 PMRE: Are there any techniques you use to overcome such certainty?
What is it that makes you believe that someone's beliefs need correcting? I'd guess it's some sense of superiority, because you believe your beliefs are more right than theirs... ?
Research and evidence have become buzzwords for the New Inquisition. Anything not done in a lab by some lettered dodo in a white jacket doesn't count for anything in the minds of a scientific materialist. I think that's a pretty limited way of looking at the wondrous whole of existence and its perplexities and complexities. But it's not my job to correct that error in their thinking. Hell, maybe they're right.
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Tue, January 13, 2009 - 7:10 PM<<Are there any techniques you use to overcome such certainty? >>
a worthy experiment by any measure. some techniques that have worked for me in the past include:
1) Spend an hour walking around outside without assigning meaning to anything
2) For one day, look at everyone you meet as if that person will die soon (who knows ? they might!)
3) Practice living without a self-image.
4) For 10 minutes, fixate your attention on the spaces between things and people and navigate through these spaces until you find the pathways of spaces between things and people.
5) Pick an argument with someone more dogmatic than yourself.
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Wed, January 14, 2009 - 11:12 AMSome great techniques!
>>Although my beliefs tend to be backed by research and evidence, I understand that they are still merely reality tunnels, and are not necessarily reality itself.<<
That's not all our beliefs are, at least from a Sethian POV: "Your beliefs meet you in the face when you look in the mirror. They form your image. You cannot escape your beliefs. They are, however, the method by which you create your experience."
If you keep finding yourself "correcting" the beliefs of others, feel nails on a chalkboard when you hear their professed (non-scientific) beliefs, find yourself intolerant and closed-minded and acting omniscient, and feeling hypocritical, then that probably means your own beliefs are somehow creating such a situation.
Do you really want to overcome your certainty, or is it more that you don't want to have to deal with such struggles anymore?
"Realize that your physical experience and environment is the materialization of your beliefs. If you find great exuberance, health, effective work, abundance, smiles on the faces of those who you meet, then take it for granted that your beliefs are beneficial. If you see a world that is good, people like you, take it for granted again, that your beliefs are beneficial. But if you find poor health, a lack of meaningful work, a lack of abundance, a world of sorrow and evil, then assume your beliefs are faulty and begin examining them." -- Seth, from The Nature of Personal Reality -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Wed, January 14, 2009 - 12:01 PMSynchronicity, I saw this quote today:
"Experience brings Trouble. Trouble brings Wisdom. Wisdom brings Transformation." -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Wed, January 14, 2009 - 2:51 PM"Do you really want to overcome your certainty"
That should be a quote.. -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Wed, January 14, 2009 - 5:11 PMIt is a quote now...LOL
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Wed, January 14, 2009 - 5:27 PM -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Fri, January 16, 2009 - 1:33 PMso like on the eurostar back to paris I sat next to this old hippy who said he was a retired advertising copy writer and was going to do some egyptology research at the biblioteque nationale...
how spooky is that...!!! -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Fri, January 16, 2009 - 3:43 PMorpheus -- maybe he was looking for his mummy. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Overcoming Belief
Fri, January 16, 2009 - 4:23 PMjust as I was leaving mine... -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Fri, January 16, 2009 - 4:26 PMThere is the revolving door of Chapel Perilous
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Fri, January 16, 2009 - 4:27 PMbut talking of chapels and coincidences...
I visited la sainte chapelle yesterday in a vague attempt to trade off the perilous with some saintly...
which I guess is what I've generally been trying to do these last 5 or 6 years etc...
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Fri, January 16, 2009 - 5:00 PMwhat was the exchange rate and did you get a good deal on your perilous ? -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Fri, January 16, 2009 - 5:13 PMthe inflated insider trading still has me deflated on the outside...
so I guess I haven't managed to access the mark of the beast yet...
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Fri, January 16, 2009 - 5:38 PM.....do you have to buy the mark or do you inherit it?
If you can buy it .....how much are they asking? -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Fri, January 16, 2009 - 5:53 PMmarks are for marks. do not accept any substitutes. tatoo "666" on your forehead and all will be forgiven. -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Fri, January 16, 2009 - 11:03 PMi don't know. something just came over me. like bats circling in the attic. sounds of distant thunder. lightning flashes. the crash of silverware and wine glasses on marble floors. more bats. and suddenly, i am sitting in front of a computer screen writing and sending this message to cyberspace station called Chapel Perilous. and everything becomes very, very clear. -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Sat, January 17, 2009 - 8:44 AMthe vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true... -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Sat, January 17, 2009 - 12:36 PM(...runs and crouches shivering behind a creepy Gothic statue..) -
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Re: Overcoming Belief
Sat, January 17, 2009 - 12:42 PMthat's my life that is...
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666
Fri, January 23, 2009 - 2:11 PM" tatoo "666" on your forehead and all will be forgiven. "
This would dovetail nicely with the current trend for transparency. As an interesting alternative I did see this guy in Berkeley with horns on his head once. His head was clean shaven and they protruded under the skin. How did he do that? -
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Re: 666
Fri, January 23, 2009 - 3:11 PM -
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Re: 666
Fri, January 23, 2009 - 4:36 PM"Depending on the client's whim, the implants can be repeatedly removed, with larger ones added when the skin is ready, leaving a more dramatic effect"
Very interesting. Does that work on the penis too? -
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Re: 666
Fri, January 23, 2009 - 4:54 PMjust click on the first link in the last link & your question will be answered
all-ways,
mem
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