The Iroqouis Nation...

topic posted Sat, October 27, 2007 - 1:04 PM by  David
was a Nation of fourteen clans that had many different colored people. Some had blonde, red, black, brown hair... Some had green or blue eyes. They wore braids as well.

They were "Indians" of all colors.
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  • Please share more... I think the members will find your insights interesting and a welcome topic on this tribe.

    • If a little bit is good, then alot is not. That was just enough to get people thinking...
      • Since we are here to share and learn, and the "Iroquois" Nation is an informative piece of history... perhaps other members will offer some insights that we can all learn from.

        For any who are interested... here is a link to some info on the origins of this great nation.
        • Jim
          offline 2
          The Iroquois were/are a Peace Confederacy.
          Five Nations of people joined together to form a confederacy of peace which has lasted, some say, a thousand years. This union of Nations exists primarily in what is now called the New England region of the US and in eastern Canada.
          Benjamin Franklin is said to have written, in 1754 at the Albany Convention, that the American Gov't copied or adopted many of the principles of the Iroquois League.
          • Yes, but they weren't always of peace. Ask the Huron who also enjoyed a vast expanse of land, which they lost in the war with the Iriquouis. The Huron/Wenadot were broken apart. Some traveled south into Ohio and eventually to Oklahoma. I believe they are called the Wyandot there. Some joined other tribes, which were part of the Iriquouis Confederacy. A small base still remains in Quebec City in the reservation called Wendake. According to my aunt, these are my people, but I have searched and other sites and can find no records that state that my g-g-grandmother was anything other than French. Her name being Champlain. This is why I make no claims. This is why I say I am white only. If I cannot prove my lineage, I would be challenged and denounced when I could offer no proof. So it is best to just accept that I have no Indian blood.
            • Thank you White Wolf... my heart told me from the very beginning that you would have something to add to this topic.


              PS - Like you I can't find proof of my NA blood... homebirths did not have official RECORDS... and besides that, it was considered illegal to be NA and live in the areas my family decided to live... short of a DNA test, I can't prove any of my NA roots, but I do plan to one day find the proof I need, even if I must get together the money for the DNA testing. In the mean while... I celebrate my Cherokee connection with PRIDE and truly pray that none take offense in this pride of bloodline... so far none have ever doubted my claims or pride... I guess the dark hair, dark eyes, dark complextion... and my heart seam to be enough to prevent any from taking offense.... SMILES
            • Unsu...
              "Champlain" could have originally been "Champagne", which is an Abenaki name. Many of the French-Inidan names were corrputed or Anglicanized. Finding your French Canadian ancestors can sometimes be like looking for the proverbial needle in the haystack. Also...usually indication of mixed blood or Indian blood was not put in the general records. You find alot of that information in the parishes/churches in the margins of the documentation. Assimilation was taking place as far back as the 1600's in Canada and they went to great lengths to hide that information. Let's get together on where yo have looked thus far...I have alot of information, maybe I can point you in the right direction. Have you read any of Cyprian Tenguay's geneological research?
              • Unsu...
                Go for it White Wolf, you are a Champion for the Native American People!
                • Thank you bard. I would prefer to think of myself as a Champion for the People. I live my life for all people. When you look upon the turtle that I painted, you will see on its back the four colors. The turtle represents the unity of all the peoples. Here on the back of Turtle Island they have come together. Year after year, the people came. Only now, must they awaken. As we stand at the fork in the road, the people must awaken and decide. Continue on the path of destruction, or open their hearts. We need more people to go to their drums and beat the heartbeat of Earth Mother. This is what awakens the people. I have tried this and seen. Each time I have had a drumming to Awaken the Children, I have seen an upsurge in the membership. Maybe just a coincidence. I don't know.
              • As I PM'ed you, I have researched the best I can using and research my aunt has done. As you noted, I might have to go to the church to find the records. Unfortunatley, with the new laws, I have to get a passport first. I just hope they let me back in. I have to find out where Tilbury is. That is where St. Francis Xavier Church is. Tilbury E. Twp, Kent Co, Ontario.
                I had mistated her name it is Claire Champagne. On the census, she is listed as being French.
                • And talking about this allowed my brain to dislodge a thought. I know, I know, but hey, its possible.
                  Anyway, I googled St Francis Xavier Tilbury and as my French Canadian ancestors would say, Voila! They are part of the Roman Catholic Diocease of London, Kent/Lambton region. Annnnddd. They had an email addy. So I sent them off an email address with Claire's info requesting if there were a way for them to check parish records. I also mentioned what we were looking for with regards to annotations as my aunt had mentioned she was Huron. Can't hurt, and if they are as nice as the Wendat at Wendake, then I may at least get some response. Though, even if they do find an annotation, I am no closer to finding out to which tribe.
              • " Finding your French Canadian ancestors can sometimes be like looking for the proverbial needle in the haystack."
                Indeed! I have a friend specialized in the topic, linked with the local Metis Nation(s).

                " Also...usually indication of mixed blood or Indian blood was not put in the general records. "
                Quite, it was NOT. There was assimilation, lots of Slavery in those days, names were changed into 'wierdo French',
                and worse, the cover up is astounding, for, in the family trees branches stop, names in the logs are scribbled badly & misspelled,
                'adopted' names almost random or cursorily descriptive. There were tons of 'trickeries that were going on for generations!

                "You find alot of that information in the parishes/churches in the margins of the documentation.
                Assimilation was taking place as far back as the 1600's in Canada and they went to great lengths to hide that information."

                The fact is still in the local culture, where actually admitting that one would have 'indian' blood would be a terrible SHAME.

                Yet, the tides and wheels are turning...


            • Unsu...
              "Yes, but they weren't always of peace. Ask the Huron who also enjoyed a vast expanse of land, which they lost in the war with the Iriquouis. The Huron/Wenadot were broken apart. Some traveled south into Ohio and eventually to Oklahoma. I believe they are called the Wyandot there. Some joined other tribes, which were part of the Iriquouis Confederacy. A small base still remains in Quebec City in the reservation called Wendake. According to my aunt, these are my people, but I have searched and other sites and can find no records that state that my g-g-grandmother was anything other than French. Her name being Champlain. This is why I make no claims. This is why I say I am white only. If I cannot prove my lineage, I would be challenged and denounced when I could offer no proof. So it is best to just accept that I have no Indian blood."

              Hmm... if I believed that I'd be white too. Even though my full name is completely French (Canadian), French Canadian makes up the smallest part of my ancestry. It all has to do with paternal lineage in my case. G-Grandfather was French Canadian and Welsh, mostly Welsh though. G-Grandmother was full blood Algonquin (Omamiwininawak Anishinaabeg). They married in Quebec and then crossed into the states illegally around 1900 and went to Waterbury, Conn. where my Grandfather was born in 1902. Up until the mid-1980's all indigenous women in Canada lost their First Nations status when they married outside their race. So.. add that to the illegal border crossing, dit names, spelling variances, finding records in Canada, etc... and it's definitely like finding a needle in a haystack. Doesn't mean I ain't indin though. And my Grandfather made sure to let me know that ;)
              • Hello my dear friend H-, it's nice to see you here.

                Who we truly are comes from the heart... not the blood. Also, just because one can not prove the bloodline... that does not prevent one from celebrating the ties... not does it stop the bloodline from existing. We can't always prove... what is real... we have feel it with out hearts.

          • Unsu...
            They were not always peaceful. The Wabanaki confederacy was formed in response to aggression and warring from Iriquois, which only ceased when the Mohawk signed with the Wabanaki, because the Iriquois would not war on its own people or spill the blood of their own people.
            The origin of the name Iroquois is reputed to come from a French version of a Huron (Wyandot) name—considered an insult—meaning "Black Snakes". The Iroquois were enemies of the Huron and the Algonquin, who allied with the French, due to their rivalry in the fur trade.

            By 1677, the Iroquois formed an alliance with the English through an agreement known as the Covenant Chain. Together, they battled the French to a standstill who were allied with the Huron, another Iroquoian people, but a historic foe of the Confederacy.

            The League engaged in a series of wars against the French and their Iroquoian-speaking Wyandot ("Huron") allies. They also put great pressure on the Algonquian peoples of the Atlantic coast and what is now the boreal Canadian Shield region of Canada and not infrequently fought the English colonies as well. During the seventeenth century, they are also credited with having conquered and/or absorbed the Neutral Indians and Erie Tribe to the west as a way of controlling the fur trade, even though other reasons are often given for these wars.
            • Thanks for sharing this. Sometimes it is good to know the truth about nations. Many who come here or to my group do so to learn. By knowing these things it helps to keep people from romantisizing native culture. There is great wisdom to be found, to be sure. Many of the traditional ways can serve as a foundation to live a life of balance and harmony. Not all was honey and roses though.
              • Unsu...
                Best to understand that the native cultures were just like other cultures of the time...war and peace for all mostly the same reasons. Although I have heard it said that native people did not war over land issues...usually fighting was in response to an insult and often for hostages to replace lost warriors and family members. It wasn't until French and English influence that any Indian fought over land end even then it was as allies.
                • Yes, wasn't it Ben Franklin, and I think even George Washington that noted what a waste was war between the nations since so few died. The greatest courage was for the one to run in amongst the others and touch an enemy with ones club. Okay, maybe touch is a bit light, but there were few deaths in many of the "wars".
  • the seminole indians of florida was not a tribe before the spanish and french came. seminoles were a mix of many small tribes (no one even knows how many dozens, maybe even hundreds of tribes there were before the invasion. renegade indians from many different tribes banded together and they included renegade black slaves and acadians (french canadian "driftwood').
    • Unsu...
      'driftwood' ??
      • "acadian driftwood" is a song by the band about the peoples that came to be known as acadian, who migrated from canada to florida to louisiana.
        • Unsu...
          Interesting~those are my people(s) all 1648 of them...I never heard this song do you have a copy?

          They were also deported to the islands, quebec, france, and many more places. Entire families ripped sent one place, women and children to another. The usual assimilation tactic, I guess.

          10,000 Acadians were deported over 75% of the entire populace.
          • yes, i knew, and did not mean to imply they all ended up in louisiana. i am no expert on them, but i have believed that they left in mass and had many difficulties because they stayed together as such a large group, giving them problems integrating into another settlement. some found a niche here and there along the eastern seaboard but most just keep going further south.

            i believe it was the french-influenced acadians combined with the spices of the mis-appropriated africans that give us cajun and creole food.

            the song "acadian driftwood" has been one of my favorite tunes by the band, whom i love. i used to have it, i am pretty sure it was on their album titled "islands". it was not one of their bigger selling albums but i love it. there is another great tune on that album called "this must be christmas tonight" (or something like that). (i am over my religion issues enough to enjoy it, ahahahhahahahhahahhahahha)
            • Unsu...
              Yes the "Cajun" culture, cuisine, and dialect all grew out of assimilation of Franch Acadians and displaced Africans. I am not sure that they stayed enamss though...many families were scattered to the winds and directions. Mostly they separated the men and women/children. They took the men first.
              I have one male ancestor who was sent to Ste. Malo, France and his wife and daughter sent to Massachusetts. They were issued duplicate birth certificates/documentation, as such and make s it very difficult to trace them. The daughter, when she became "old enough" left Massachusetts on foot and walked all the way back to Nova Scotia through Maine and then crossed the Bay of Fundy by boat/canoe. She had a baby on the way in Saco Maine, hence I have a 4th Great Grandfather with the middle name "Saco". Imagine the strength and determination of the Acadian people to endure that voyage? It is very sad and overwhelming when you visit Nova Scotia and stand in the spot they were taken from and to go to the Grande Pre Cultural Center and see all your family names on the memorial. I did that 2 years ago...and the moment I saw the names and realized that all or most of them were my family names...I began to cry like a child. It was incredibly overwhelming to understand What they went through. Perhaps is why I was fascinated by the driftwood on the beach at Cape Chignecto and took so many pictures of it... : ))
              I like that the original by Robbie Robertson and The Band?
              • i was incorrect about the album, acadian driftwood was not on the islands album, it was northern lights - southern cross. and yes, it was written by robbie robertson, who has done some amazing work to reveal his heart connection with the native americans also. here are the lyrics to acadian driftwood, by robbie robertson, as performed by the band:

                The war was over and the spirit was broken
                The hills were smokin' as the men withdrew
                We stood on the cliffs
                Oh, and watched the ships
                Slowly sinking to their rendezvous
                They signed a treaty and our homes were taken
                Loved ones forsaken
                They didn't give a damn
                Try'n' to raise a family
                End up the enemy
                Over what went down on the plains of Abraham (*)

                Acadian driftwood
                Gypsy tail wind
                They call my home the land of snow
                Canadian cold front movin' in
                What a way to ride
                Oh, what a way to go

                Then some returned to the motherland
                The high command had them cast away
                And some stayed on to finish what they started
                They never parted
                They're just built that way
                We had kin livin' south of the border
                They're a little older and they've been around
                They wrote a letter life is a whole lot better
                So pull up your stakes, children and come on down

                Fifteen under zero when the day became a threat
                My clothes were wet and I was drenched to the bone
                Been out ice fishing, too much repetition
                Make a man wanna leave the only home he's known
                Sailing out of the gulf headin' for Saint Pierre
                Nothin' to declare
                All we had was gone
                Broke down along the coast
                But what hurt the most
                When the people there said
                "You better keep movin' on"

                Everlasting summer filled with ill-content
                This government had us walkin' in chains
                This isn't my turf
                This ain't my season
                Can't think of one good reason to remain
                I've worked in the sugar fields up from New Orleans
                It was ever green up until the floods
                You could call it an omen
                Points ya where you're goin'
                Set my compass north
                I got winter in my blood

                Acadian driftwood
                Gypsy tail wind
                They call my home the land of snow
                Canadian cold front movin' in
                What a way to ride
                Ah, what a way to go

                Sais tu, A-ca-di-e j'ai le mal du pays
                [You know, Acadia, I long for the country (I am homesick)]
                Ta neige, Acadie, fait des larmes au soleil
                [Your snow, Acadia, makes tears in the sun (or for the sun)]
                J'arrive Acadie, teedle um, teedle um, teedle ooh
                [I am arriving Acadia (or I am coming Acadia)]
                • Unsu...
                  Nice~ Acadian Driftwood...that's me ... always felt that there's a name for it, eh?

                  Robbie is Six Nation Mohawk.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    • sweet.

                      robbie robertson does not look to be a native american to me. the legal/scientific measurements do not matter to me though. it is more of an inside thing. it is about what christians call "soul". it is about what buddhist might think of as the aspects of past life where we still have work to do. i might say it is about heart, or where our tender spots are. whatever. i can feel robbie's sincerity, his rapport, his kinship with the indian people. i am sure that most native people probably do also, but no doubt some might take exception. i think it is the purity in his heart, the righteousness of his intentions that guided him in doing this.

                      i wanted to share another video of robbie's music so i posted it in a new thread (because i have strayed from "the iroquis nation" topic)
    • merlin, really deep info you and others are getting into here! Great to read!

      By the way, anyone heard of the Maroons? (i've seen "Cultural Survival Quarterly" magazine do a large article on them, as well as an anarchist magazine i know of; more in the florida region of the swamps.)
      • i do not know of the maroons.

        i grew up in northern florida. in winter of 2001/02 i went back for the first time in many years. some of the natives have recently been registering names of nearly lost tribes (new to be "officially" recognized by bia). survivors of at least one of those tribes (i don't remember the name, but it started with an "m") lived way back in the everglades. back in the day, they made cabins lashed to the cypress trees and traded alligators and turtles. the everglades still had a thriving population of turtles and gators while i was there. i camped way back in those everglades and i could hear silence for the longest time (save some frogs & skeeters), and then sudden massive movement of water (gator tail swishing) followed by a chomp that sounded like a 4 - 6" diameter pine tree cracking in half (crushing of the turtle shell in the gator's jaws)

        oops, i am taking the conversation sideways again. sorry.
      • Unsu...
        A Maroon (from the word marronage or American/Spanish cimarrón: "fugitive, runaway", lit. "living on mountaintops"; from Spanish cima: "top, summit") was a runaway slave in the West Indies, Central America, South America, or North America. Maroon populations are found in Jamaica, Amazon River Basin to the American states of Florida and North Carolina.

        Also referred to as Black Seminoles. Theymay have inhabited the recesses of the everglades, as that was original Seminole territory. The mikosoukee were too far north.

        These are the other nations originally in Florida beginning with "M" :

        Macapiras, or Amacapiras. Meaning unknown. A small tribe which was brought to the St. Augustine missions in 1726 along with some Pohoy, and so apparently from the southwest coast. There were only 24, part of whom died and the rest returned to their old homes before 1728.

        Mikasuki. Meaning unknown.

        Connections. These Indians belonged to the Hitchiti-speaking branch of the Muskhogean linguistic family. They are said by some to have branched from the true Hitchiti, but those who claim that they were originally Chiaha are probably correct.

        Location. Their earliest known home was about Miccosukee Lake
        in Jefferson County.

        Villages. Alachua Talofa or John Hick's Town, in the Alachua Plains, Alachua County.
        New Mikasuki, near Greenville in Madison County.
        Old Mikasuki, near Miccosukee Lake.

        History. The name Mikasuki appears about 1778 and therefore we know that their independent status had been established by that date whether they had separated from the Hitchiti or the Chiaha. They lived first at Old Mikasuki and then appear to have divided, part going to New Mikasuki and part to the Alachua Plains. Some writers denounce them as the worst of all Seminole bands, but it is quite likely that, as a tribe differing in speech from themselves, the Muskogee element blamed them for sins they themselves had committed. Old Mikasuki was burned by Andrew Jackson in 1817. Most Mikasuki seem to have remained in Florida where they still constitute a distinct body, the Big Cypress band of Seminole. Those who went to Oklahoma retained a distinct Square Ground as late as 1912.

        Population. Morse (1822) quotes a certain Captain Young to the effect that there were 1,400 Mikasuki in his time, about 1817. This figure is probably somewhat too high though the Mikasuki element is known to have been a large one. They form one entire band among the Florida Seminole.

        Connection in which they have become noted. The Mikasuki attained prominence in the Seminole War. In the form Miccosukee their name has been applied to a lake in Jefferson and Leon Counties, Fla., and a post village in the latter county. In the form Mekusuky it has been given to a village in Seminole County, Okla.

        Mocogo, or Mucogo. Meaning unknown.

        Connections. They belonged with little doubt to the Timucuan division of the Muskhogean linguistic stock.

        Location. About the head of Hillsboro Bay.

        Villages. None are mentioned under any other than the tribal name.

        History. The chief of this tribe gave asylum to a Spaniard named Juan Ortiz who had come to Florida in connection with the expedition of Narvaez. When De Soto landed near the Mocogo town its chief sent Ortiz with an escort of warriors to meet him. Ortiz afterward became De Soto's principal interpreter until his death west of the Mississippi, and the Mocogo chief remained on good terms with the Spaniards as long as they stayed in the neighborhood. There are only one or two later references to the tribe.

        Connection in which they have become noted. The contacts of the Mocogo with De Soto and his followers constitute their only claim to distinction.

        Muklasa. A small Creek town whose inhabitants were probably related by speech to the Alabama and Koasati. They are said to have gone to Florida after the Creek War.

        Muskogee. The first true Creeks or Muskogee to enter Florida seem to have been a body of Eufaula Indians who made a settlement called Chuko tcati, Red House, on the west side of the peninsula some distance north of Tampa Bays This was in 1761. Other Muskogee drifted into Florida from time to time, but the great immigration took place after the Creek-American War. The newcomers were from many towns, but more particularly those on the Tallapoosa River. They gave the final tone and the characteristic language to the Florida emigrants who had before been dominantly of Hitchiti connection, and therefore the so-called Seminole language is Muskogee, with possibly a few minor changes in the vocabulary.
        • i don't remember any of this in our history books when i went to public school in florida.


          of course not, because our history books were full of bullshit. (scuze my french)
          • Unsu...
            Undoubtedly~I believe the state of Florida actually BANNED revisionist history back in 2000...I have that article on my revisionist history tribe.

            Nice French~great proounciation LOL!~
          • Unsu...
            Sorry was 2006....

            Florida Bans "Revisionist History"
            Looks like we no longer have to worry about those revisionist historians corrupting the minds of the young in Florida. From the Los Angeles Times article:

            And just last week, in an unprecedented move, the president's brother approved a law barring revisionist history in Florida public schools. "The history of the United States shall be taught as genuine history and shall not follow the revisionist or postmodernist viewpoints of relative truth," declares Florida's Education Omnibus Bill, signed by Gov. Jeb Bush. "American history shall be viewed as factual, not as constructed."

            Ironically, the Florida law is itself revisionist history. Once upon a time, it theorizes, history — especially about the founding of the country — was based on facts. But sometime during the 1960s, all that changed. American historians supposedly started embracing newfangled theories of moral relativism and French postmodernism, abandoning their traditional quest for facts, truth and certainty. The result was a flurry of new interpretations, casting doubt on the entire past as we had previously understood it. Because one theory was as good as another, then nothing could be true or false. God, nation, family and school: It was all up for grabs. There's just one problem with this history-of-our-history: It's wrong.

            Continue reading if you have the stamina (Hat-tip to Cliopatra). I wonder what the commission charged with judging what counts as factual or revisionist will look like? This is laughable, but disturbing.
  • Anybody on here of Iriquois bloodlines,as I believe that the proper name of the tribe yer referring to is Haudenausee(In thier mother tongue,as opposed to the french/english parrallel versions...),as part of the 6-nations dialect.Language is one of the only things you just can't change ,when it comes to 1st nations:cuz' their history and ALL the important information is passed in council,first in sign-language (between tribes),then in songs,lastly,in spoken this way,the prophecies and history can ONLY be passed by the actual council members who study the wampum to know the 3-ply language of human beings all over Turtle Island,........and in this way,there is ONLY one correct version of their histories-usually NOT what you'll read in English/French or any other language for that matter,aside from the dialects chosen for ceremonial purposes,such as-history lessons............tiold in ceremonies.

    What you hear on the rest of Turtle Island is usually based in childrens' tales,as that's what the elders passed down at the turn of the century for the colonists ,who would have otherwise,killed them for not doing so:do you actually think they would have handed our sacred stories to those who were part of a "manifest destiny"-for REAL??????

    "Indian": people with bloodlines leading from the continent of India,not those from Turtle island,and definilty NOT those people who have been called this for WAY too long,after a slight mistake by an ex-con(he recently,before his departure...done hard time for fraud) from Italy,who HAD to come up with any info. for his king (or foreit the rest of his limited freedoms)upon return home.he'd already discovered the west face of the Indian continent,and he thought that Turtle Island was the east face of the same continent.His name was Christopher Columbus.
    • Unsu...
      from Russell Means

      I abhor the term Native American. It is a generic government term used to describe all the indigenous prisoners of the United States. These are the American Samoans, the Micronesians, the Aleutes, the original Hawaiians and the erroneously termed Eskimos, who are actually Upiks and Inupiats. And, of course, the American Indian.

      I prefer the term American Indian because I know its origins. The word Indian is an English bastardization of two Spanish words, En Dio, which correctly translated means in with God. As an added distinction the American Indian is the only ethnic group in the United States with the American before our ethnicity.

      At an international conference of Indians from the Americas held in Geneva, Switzerland at the United Nations in 1977 we unanimously decided we would go under the term American Indian. We were enslaved as American Indians, we were colonized as American Indians and we will gain our freedom as American Indians and then we will call ourselves any damn thing we choose.

      Finally, I will not allow a government, any government, to define who I am. Besides anyone born in the Western hemisphere is a Native American.
      • ALL of our 44 completely unique,traditional and complex skin groups,clan houses,totem clans,councils,tribes,cryers,dancers,drummers,roadmen & women,etc........have with thier particular hand/sign languages,songs,stories,linguistic adaptations-a very particluar and outstanding,defined reason for thier choices of descriptions for their place,time,and costodian actions on turtle island.during the passing of the last medicine wheel period.

        Almost ALL of the place names,tribal terminologies,and traditional stories have been given as more of a soother,or childs' "dummy',to those early settlers,polititians,....and of course......military forces,to placate their system of 'manifest destiny".

        Put into action between those races who were greediest and were most hasty,in grappling for this continent,realizing their home countries were becoming overcrowded........these are ,ironically enough-the very last races to be prevvy to the fact that the details by which they've "constructed Indian america & canada"are soley based on land,finance,and political savy.Desperation continues to serve as a vehicle for uninformed,usually harmeful desicion-making...........executed in the midst of an air of panic.

        The description,even the passing of the term "native american",or indian american",does very little to describe indigenous populus on turtle island,.....aside from leading us down the wrong,political terminology made to assist in "number/head counts,taxation path"- instead of the good,red road.
        • Unsu...
          political terminology

          Exactly! Politically correct names and paper genocide!
          • "Manifest destiny" was,and has,... a very discript and exacting definition,.........and as far as we can see;it hasn't changed that much-how could it??

            The world has it's single standpoint........nothing more,nothing less,prophesy doesn't change,tradition doesn't change,...........people do.Glad they have the will and the guidance along this red road to do so...............megweech,manitou.

   *(Our efforts realized,last season in Manitoba,Canada.....)

   (*For anyone who may be down in Mexico in the next week or so......see ya on the mountain.)
  • Unsu...
    Indeed, the Haudenosaunee (People of The Longhouse).... Were the Term Council comes from... A model for real Democracy... A Rainbow Tribe of Light and Love... Damn genetic/biological war fare... If it wasn't for Small Pox.... Things might be very different...

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