Tribe had a very strong, distict brand. "Tribe" meant an active, potent, stimulating high-quality social netowrk experience.
A community of the most inspired and unique people walking the planet.,
It could have been all things to a profitable niche segment of the population - well educated, innovative, early adopters. A way to market to the trend setters, and tastemakers.
If you listened to your customers, rather than angering and blatantly offending their tastes and sensibilites - you could have gone far.
"Tribe" doesn't mean anything specific any more. It looks, smells, tastes and acts like a generic corporate ad farm. Usage has dropped, and people no longer trust you - but think of you as "the man."
I and many, many others who used to secretly rave about Tribeno longer advocates of your brand.
I am ready to jump ship at a moments notice - and watch this place die a slow death like Prodigy, AltaVista, Napster
A community of the most inspired and unique people walking the planet.,
It could have been all things to a profitable niche segment of the population - well educated, innovative, early adopters. A way to market to the trend setters, and tastemakers.
If you listened to your customers, rather than angering and blatantly offending their tastes and sensibilites - you could have gone far.
"Tribe" doesn't mean anything specific any more. It looks, smells, tastes and acts like a generic corporate ad farm. Usage has dropped, and people no longer trust you - but think of you as "the man."
I and many, many others who used to secretly rave about Tribeno longer advocates of your brand.
I am ready to jump ship at a moments notice - and watch this place die a slow death like Prodigy, AltaVista, Napster
posted by:
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Denver
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Sun, March 12, 2006 - 12:34 PMyou could have been ALL THINGS to a profitable niche segement of the population -
but in trying to be ALL THINGS to EVERYONE - just like a million other generic networking sites -
YOU WILL STAGNATE, die a slow death -
and YOU WILL LOSE YOUR JOBS.
Better start looking on craigslist! -
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Mon, March 13, 2006 - 2:01 PMgee, way to spread the love, dude.
i get that you have an opinion, but pushing your opinion so that it wishes death and loss of jobs on people? perhaps you might want to meditate on what you are really up to creating in the world, because these posts seem a little out of alignment with what you say you're about in your profile, don't you think?
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Mon, March 13, 2006 - 2:38 PM>to a profitable niche segement of the population -
I beg to differ with you, sir; I don't believe either the nature of the niche, or its size were ever sufficient enugh to ensure a robust business model that would secure the future of Tribe for its investors *or* its users.
Surely, when you limit a product to a niche, you also by definition limit your audience. And everything you see on Tribe, and everything behind the scenes, costs. A lot.
With malice towards none. We've said it before, and we'll keep on saying it, for Tribe to be and remain viable, the user base needs to grow. -
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Mon, March 13, 2006 - 3:00 PMWell, it sure isn't going to do that while it's "one size fits no one" or until it recoups its losses of the core demographic that brought it to where it managed to get in the first place. Of course, once that happens, Tribe won't be the Tribe we all knew anymore anyway. In point of fact, it already isn't.
So fuck 'em. -
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Mon, March 13, 2006 - 3:56 PMHey Sonya,
How's F-A doing? Is it truelly a comparable replacement? What are the differences between Tribe and Them?
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Mon, March 13, 2006 - 4:27 PMI felt anger at that I thought to be an extremely poor marketing move on behalf of the new Tribe corporate leadership. A really bad move that violate some very obvious principles of marketing, branding, and one-to-one customer/user relationships.
Not listening to users/customers. Offending their sensibilites. Not understanding that user generated content network is nothing without cool users who virally/passionately advocate and promte on your behalf.
I have no trouble with the existence ads or the fact that you had to limit the X-rated content on here - I can easily accept that as neceaasry move for Tribe to survive legally or and financially.
It's not what you do - but how you do it.
Yes, tribe needs to grow. If you'd left it alone, you couldn't have stopped it!!!
The user base WOULD HAVE grown, and grown and grown - with a little patience and fierce loyalty from the delighted user/advocates. Tribe could have been the hippest netowrk around -a place that a viable segment of MySpace users looking for a better experience would have discovered and they discovered how much better Tribe WAS. You could have hung in there long enough for this critical momentum to build -rather than the critical decline you initiated.
But in going for a mass-markeitng generica approach, and design that offends your users and community - you have forever violated the perceptiont that Tribe is "cool" or "legit" and trustable.
I think that the TRIBE is going to die, as I already see it doing. And the people who pushed for this SUIDICAL marketing decision will be fired. The idea that you can simeanteously irk your strongest advocates/users and destroy your brand, and somehow they will be replaced my legions of ad-clickers because you offer YET ANOTHER mass-appealing website JUST LIKE 500 OTHERS (Orkut, MySpace) doesn't wash.
Tribe is nothing without US. And we don't trust you anymore.
Everytime I see those two laughing twins on top of my screen, I cringe.
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Mon, March 13, 2006 - 4:43 PMWarren,
I know Tribe costs money.
But much ad money would it cost Tribe to drum up enough new uers, to replace the iron-clad brand and passionate word-of-mouth buzz that Tribe used to get from it's users? You couldn't have bought that WITH A BILLION DOLLARS.
I don't think I am alone in that I feel so mistrustful in the direction that are trying to take the user experience - that I am no longer willing put my name behind it, and recommend it to trusted friends and new acquaintences. I used to say, "Oh my God! You've got to check out Tribe.. there is simmply no comparison..!". Now I find myself saying "Well there WAS this thing called Tribe, but goign downhill fast ..." out loud to people.
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Mon, March 13, 2006 - 7:54 PM>But much ad money would it cost Tribe to drum up enough new uers, to replace the iron-clad brand and passionate word-of-mouth buzz that Tribe used to get from it's users? You couldn't have bought that WITH A BILLION DOLLARS.
Perhaps. But whatever our current users were doing (talking up tribe) or not doing (blocking ads, boycotting advertisers), it was easily not enough to provide for a sustainable business model.
I'm personally sad that so many people feel Tribe can't be a place for everyone. And that so many users have an "us" vs "them" sentiment. (Note, I'm not saying you're one of these). To survive, Tribe must grow, and it must grow substantially. Or there won't be a place for anyone at all. -
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Mon, March 13, 2006 - 8:22 PMGood luck, Warren. You are guys are truly going to need it.
I stand by my predictions about brand suicide, and the likely outcome of mass market diversification at the expense of harshly offending the tastes and community-concerns of a User-Generated-Content network.
I will remember this experience as a hard-but-important lesson, not to repeat on any of my own future websites or business endeavors.
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Wed, March 15, 2006 - 2:39 PM> How's F-A doing? Is it truelly a comparable replacement?
> What are the differences between Tribe and Them?
It's coming along nicely...we have user-created Associations (like Tribes) w/ moderated and private Ass'ns coming soon. Code to kick and ban members, as well as appointing mods, changing owners (we have both owners and mods on Ass'ns now, unlike Tribes), and more are in place. Ass'ns also have image galleries now, too. Oh yeah, and you can EDIT YOUR POST AFTER THE FACT! ;-)
Users have image galleries, blogs (tho these are still pretty basic), friend connections (incl. 3 degrees of connections to see how you connect to others), Association lists, recent posts, and all the usual fun data.
We have private messaging forwarded to your email, friend connection requests and their replies are forwarded to email.
The UI's still rough, but getting less so, and we're very actively working on a "1.0" full replacement for the current UI.
In short, aside from moderated and private Ass'ns (coming soon), listings, and some of the inanely excessive ways people on Tribe can scramble their profiles to make them utterly undigestible, we're already a pretty usable replacement, I think. The really important Tribe functionality has been sufficiently replicated (and in some ways already excelled) to make it worth a switcher's while.
free-association.net
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Tue, March 14, 2006 - 1:20 AM>>"I don't believe either the nature of the niche, or its size were ever sufficient enugh to ensure a robust business model"<<
but NOW we're rolling... -
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Tue, March 14, 2006 - 5:18 PMTribe would have grown like a virus - and wider audiences would have come. WITH PATIENCE. Might have taken a few years. And maybe a more mellow, leaner business model to hold you over until the critical tipping point was reached. A siginificant market would have come here when they discovered how much quality they've been misisng out on - like when Windows users finally go MAc. The unique people of the whole world would have ended up here- rather than just the SF/Portland/BC/ LA circles.
You had an incredibly valuable user base and house-list - that no doubt a profitable business/marketing model could have been synthesized - had you not poisoned it.
Tribe should save it's money and offer LESS bandwidth, LESS user-storage, frills, updates - like the SLIM, LEAN designs of HIGHLY SUCCESSFUL user-generated content directories like CRAIGSLIST or YAHOO.
If Gogole or Craigslist had done what you have done, they have gone the way of iWon or Excite.
Cramming things full of banners, and at the sme time burning your core advocates and brand ambassadors in a honky attempt at mass-market diversification off is a fatal mistake. A time-tested, proven recipie for internet failure.
REPENT while there is still a little bit of hope left!
This is your last chance! -
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Wed, March 15, 2006 - 1:30 AMI hate to say it but I'm feeling alot like Brett these days. But I still have some hope that on one of the rare times I visit Tribe these days, I will log on and someone will have not only listened to our complaints but actually done something about them.
I still care so much about Tribe or I wouldn't have written so many posts and emails recently about the changes.
What I still don't get is WHO LIKES THE NEW TRIBE!? Is this new format somehow helping pay the bills? Can't you Tribe people just admit you tried something and it's not working. If I thought there were more people attracted to Tribe and it was making better $ due to the changes then I'd say that's great for Tribe, but is that the case? I think not.
Please please please do something.
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Wed, March 15, 2006 - 2:39 AMBret why are you still giving them content ?
Portland no longer shows up at even 1% of the ratings.
The new people are from the Red States like the owners
people.tribe.net - 22%, sanfrancisco.tribe.net - 13%, tribes.tribe.net - 9%, losangeles.tribe.net - 4%, tribe.net - 4%, philly.tribe.net - 3%, newyork.tribe.net - 2%, california.tribe.net - 1%, seattle.tribe.net - 1%, atlanta.tribe.net - 1%, montreal.tribe.net - 1%, charlotte.tribe.net - 1%, washingtondc.tribe.net - 1%, tribeideas.tribe.net - 1%, chicago.tribe.net - 1%, boston.tribe.net - 1%, phoenix.tribe.net - 1%, moderators.tribe.net - 1%,
Other websites - 30%
The moderators are now 1% of their eyes all 983 members.
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Wed, March 15, 2006 - 10:54 AMyo, brett, you appear to be having an actual mental breakdown about the tribe changes, filled with ranting and raving and accusations and intense emotions. i have a vision of you with your face flushed, beads of sweat popping off your forehead, and steam coming out of your ears. this can't be healthy.
sure, we liked it when it was the vehicle for us freaks to connect how we wanted. but it's not our company, and we gave our input, and were told, sorry, this is how it's going to be.
it might help if you can accept this: it's not your company.
if it were, you would have had the chance to choose how it went, to guide the marketing and demographics, to be the expert in the best way to develop social networking sites (and as an added bonus, to do all the hoop-jumping and antics to appeal to the VCs and generate revenue too), but it's **not your company**.
i feel like this tribe has moved from input about "tribe's new look" to "the last remaining spinouts who haven't accepted that it's simply not going to go our way and there's not a friggin' thing we can do about it, except get over it and choose whether we stay or go."
or possibly continue to offer our observations and objections in a mature and reasonable way and maybe have some infuence on the future direction. now *there's* a concept! -
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Wed, March 15, 2006 - 7:54 PMI know - I used to feel like it was *my* company and a real digital tribe I was a part of - the best incarnation of the matrix to date.
Letting go of that , and watching it die, is hard. I did feel an emotional connection to this, stronger than I have ever felt to a computer network before...
But I've been through this before.
Till we all meet again! -
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 8:00 AMleslie, it's not a few spin'outs as you so put it.
The majority of posts here and other places are not happy with what most believe were wrong decisions by the tribe management. -
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 11:24 AMvaughn, i share the frustration about some of the choices that were made. bigtime.
and i also see that continuing to throw hissie fits (which is what many of the posts that we continue to read really are) is just not a way to affect any change at all. they're just annoying.
and... it's not my company. yes, i'm a heavy tribe user, yes, these changes affect the usability of tribe, yes, i think they should have thought some things through more... but no, it is not my company.
it speaks volumes that tribe is so ingrained in some of our lives that we think it actually belongs to us, but it is actually delusional to continue to behave as if it does. and i personally think that the bad behavior on this tribe and other input tribes actually drives away the clear-thinking people who might be able to really influence the future direction. the environment of psycho spinout behavior is pretty hostile to rational folks.
it's like being a protestor for a cause you believe in -- the moment you go psycho or fringe on your behavior is the moment that your cause is tainted forever, and your opportunity to make a difference evaporates.
not to mention what it does to one's internal psyche to be ranting and raving against something that you have no real personal affect over. it's just not healthy.
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 2:39 PMthey have gone to a new low today, deleting my Tribe 2006 puking picture from public view. Way to go guys. Lucky for you am too involved with a few tribes here to leave just yet. But I assure you that if anything comes along that has a tribe like system without the bullshit...i'll be gone with all my people in a flash.
But also lucky for you I give up on having any input here beyond this last post. I have tried being nice as many did when there recent changes started but now I'm just pist off that no one gives a crap and they won't explain why.
Thanks for getting me hooked on tribe and then cutting the drug with trash. -
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 2:49 PMUh, wait a second--which "They" are you talking about as far as this picture? Are you implying this was done by Tribe employees (kind of doubtful), or was it flagged by a number of Tribe members to the point where it was made private? And if so, you are aware you're able to contest it, aren't you?
>I'm just pist off that no one gives a crap and they won't explain why.
I disagree with you. If we didn't care, we would not have posted as extensively as we have in this, and other forums. And we've clearly and repeatedly explained our reasons for making the changes we've made, and the changes we're still planning to make. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 5:01 PMMost Tribe folks are pretty reasonable.
I understand that Tribe needs ads to survive, and would gladly support advertisers that were relevant to me
I can understand that if they continued to allow Gay Fisting photo albums in public, the feds could shut them down.
I could understand IF the interface needed to change to make it more usable, to attract a more diverse market, or increase ad clicks - but there was nothing unattractive with the old design and concept. And there was nothing that would make it unwelcoming to a diverse audience.
I would understand if this new interface was a smart idea, a necessary evil change we had to go through that would insure the survival of our Tribe. But it's especially painful because it is a surefire recipe for killing a brand and an online community.
They knew what the reaction would be before they unveiled it - and they are not going to change till they are on their last legs - like when Blockbuster decided to cut it's customers some slack and get rid of the late fees after NetFlix took over and it was TOO LATE.
Tribe shouldn't be so cocky and remember that it does not exist without for the loyalty, buzz and content created by the people who LOVE it. Without the continued strong buzz, they will be nothing except another declining medicore forum - a million-a-dozen.
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 5:07 PM> I understand that Tribe needs ads to survive
We don't. ;-)
> I can understand that if they continued to allow Gay Fisting photo
> albums in public, the feds could shut them down.
They can't! We can have all the gay fisting we want...
*teehee*
free-association.net -
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 7:11 PMWhine and spam sure do go great together. -
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Unsu...
Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Fri, March 17, 2006 - 6:33 AMAwesome! That Free Association logo is like a green version of the new tribe look! -
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Fri, March 17, 2006 - 10:32 PM> That Free Association logo is like a green version of the new tribe look!
Oh please...we have no stupid cartoon people and what else are you going to use to symbolize "social circles" but, well, circles.
But come on, even the mostly-Joomla-default UI we're still working with as yet is nowhere near as eye-scorching as the current Tribe UI. Esp. with the soothing green. :P
And if everyone here is saying how terrible Tribe's become, I fail to see how pimping a viable alternative is "spam".
But if it is, I'd have to go for a Pinot Noir to accompany. -
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Fri, March 17, 2006 - 11:37 PMtoo bad Zaadz has a difficult to spell/remember/verbally communicate name....
and Free Association has a generic (common) name.... usually the kiss-of-death for an internet brand.
Great intentions but both pretty strong strikes against them in the brand building and buzz-o-sphere that thing need in order
to take off and thrive. -
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Sun, March 19, 2006 - 7:08 PMd00d...you want branding?
"Free Ass"...*chuckles*
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Unsu...
Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Fri, March 17, 2006 - 8:57 AMI just blew coffee outta my nose. THAKS A LOT !!!
Question, which would go best with spam, Chardonnay or a Cabernet Sauvignon ?
= D
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 10:12 PM
Chris: You're not the only one who had this image removed today by tribe:
sfbdsm.tribe.net/thread/c3...fcb867488f
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Tue, April 4, 2006 - 12:42 PMA good business model is to not give everyone all they want at once. You will fail. You should give them all + 1%. In other words...give them what you can at 100% plus something a little extra. And until that little extra is ingrained into your model...then give a little more until that is ingrained and so on.
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Thu, March 16, 2006 - 7:22 PMi tend to agree that tribe committed "brand suicide." i've only been on tribe since december of '04. in the time between joining and 2257 related changes, i recruited dozens and dozens of people. i proselytized tribe on the streets. i emailed people. i joined tribes and linked friends from many circles that i've travelled in. i was what could be called a "core user" as loyal to tribe as the christian right is to the neocon agenda (but without all the nasty side effects like jingoistic advocation of bombing.) when tribe did the beta test on the new UI, i joined in and offered suggestions. actual suggestions... not just "this is ass, make it go away and fast please!"
tribe completely screwed the pooch with this new release though. most of my tribes have dropped dramatically in posts. the removal of "sidewalk traffic" from the event listings rendered those all but useless. the ugly mocking siamese muppets couldn't be less appealing if tribe had tried.
>>I'm personally sad that so many people feel Tribe can't be a place for everyone. And that so many users have an "us" vs "them" sentiment. (Note, I'm not saying you're one of these). To survive, Tribe must grow, and it must grow substantially. Or there won't be a place for anyone at all.<<
it was not about needing to see tribe stay a cool small circle of hipsters. it was about trusting that the vast majority of users knew why they came to this site and knew what they liked about it. tribe instead gave lip service to caring and all but turned its back on the actual complaints. case in point? those universally loathed stupid muppets are still on the image map at the top of the page.
i tend to agree with brett. tribe won't grow by alienating its base. if tribe does grow that way, i can't imagine it growing "into" anything i want to be a part of. tribe has watered down its effectiveness, its visual appeal and its user base. i have many friends who have already bailed. they'd rather use email mailing lists than tribe. it's absurd.
my tribe use has gone down to about 10% of what it was before the new UI. i have even given up on regularly checking this page to see if tribe would come to its senses and say, "OK, we screwed up. we'll give you the site you love back."
warren, has traffic really increased since the new UI? has membership grown? to my way of thinking all that's happened is existing members have unsubscribed or stopped posting.
sad. tribe may become one of those lessons for new internet start-ups... "don't try to be all things to all people. be what you are very well to the people who love you." -
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Re: isn't it weird the way they clam up and then later claim they've responded?
Fri, March 17, 2006 - 2:24 AM"it was not about needing to see tribe stay a cool small circle of hipsters. it was about trusting that the vast majority of users knew why they came to this site and knew what they liked about it. tribe instead gave lip service to caring and all but turned its back on the actual complaints."
"i tend to agree with brett. tribe won't grow by alienating its base."
" i have many friends who have already bailed. they'd rather use email mailing lists than tribe."
"all that's happened is existing members have unsubscribed or stopped posting."
"be what you are very well to the people who love(d) you."
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Fri, March 17, 2006 - 9:15 AM>warren, has traffic really increased since the new UI?
I'm told that it has; I have no idea what the numbers are, though, they're not something that regularly crosses my path. -
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Sat, March 18, 2006 - 12:47 AMWhen everyone's experience says otherwise, how could this possibly be true? -
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Sat, March 18, 2006 - 10:03 AMI would just like to say..
JONESTOWN?
Kool - Aid anyone?
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Sat, March 18, 2006 - 11:09 AMyeah, jonestown is really funny when you follow it with a winky emoticon.
you may want to consider that for some people (like those of us from san francisco who actually have memories of jonestown, which occurred when you were a little kid), that using it as an analogy for a friggin' website is pretty distasteful.
maybe you'd like to move onto genocide in rwanda or concentration camps? that'll really make your point.. which was..... ??? -
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Sun, March 19, 2006 - 7:14 PMYou know why there are no jokes about the Jonestown massacre?
The punchlines are too long. -
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Sun, March 19, 2006 - 9:29 PM"You know why there are no jokes about the Jonestown massacre?
The punchlines are too long. "
. . . and your jokes are too whack . . .
= D
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Mon, March 20, 2006 - 12:30 AMyou may want to consider that for some people (like those of us from san francisco who actually have memories of jonestown, which occurred when you were a little kid), that using it as an analogy for a friggin' website is pretty distasteful.
Overly sensitive much?
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Re: TRIBE brand suicide
Mon, March 20, 2006 - 10:36 AM"yeah, jonestown is really funny when you follow it with a w
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