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"I am very bored by spiritual practice unless I've taken a psychedelic." - Terence McKenna
"Drugs are for wimps." - Antero Alli
Both of these statements are taken out of context, but pose interesting, seemingly opposing viewpoints.
It is the brain's response to the drug that generates the psychedelic experience. Therefore, I tend to agree more with Antero's statement, as the state really begins inside the brain-mind in both cases. As if the drug is a tool for shifting into a particular vivid state, but ultimately the tool being totally unnecessary. In other words, the drug is only one way to harness the power of the mind that is already intrinsically available for usage otherwise.
What are your thoughts?
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Here is the Terence Mckenna lecture. The quote plays at 23:20.
vids.myspace.com/index.cfm
"Drugs are for wimps." - Antero Alli
Both of these statements are taken out of context, but pose interesting, seemingly opposing viewpoints.
It is the brain's response to the drug that generates the psychedelic experience. Therefore, I tend to agree more with Antero's statement, as the state really begins inside the brain-mind in both cases. As if the drug is a tool for shifting into a particular vivid state, but ultimately the tool being totally unnecessary. In other words, the drug is only one way to harness the power of the mind that is already intrinsically available for usage otherwise.
What are your thoughts?
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Here is the Terence Mckenna lecture. The quote plays at 23:20.
vids.myspace.com/index.cfm
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Mon, August 17, 2009 - 9:49 PMWhether you take a drug or not, you still must be able to maintain a certain level of mastery over your mind, over your state, in order to navigate the experience, be it psychedelically induced, or otherwise. You may not know what non-ordinary states of consciousness are or feel like without the help of a chemical introduction, but even without a substance, you are bound to find out providing you recognize the power that the mind exhibits over habits, or pains, physical discomforts, hunger, sleepiness, attentiveness, awareness, respiration, and even heart-rate.. It is the commitment and dedication to the practice, to the process of self-mastery, that the psychedelic (be it, endogenous or externally introduced) offers up as a challenge, in one way or another.. It's then up to the experiencer to experience & respond accordingly. -
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Tue, August 18, 2009 - 6:41 PMI fully agree. -
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Tue, August 18, 2009 - 6:47 PMI generally consider drug-induced states to be a kind of passive spirituality, even when the drug experience is accompanied by deliberate body posturing, movement, and music. It tends to depend on the power of the mind's response to the drug. Of course, on the other hand, working on your own mind, without an external drug, in order to reach degrees of access and experience would be the active spirituality.
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Tue, August 18, 2009 - 6:57 PMWell I could write a lot. Generally it's my opinion that this quote reflects McKenna's own naiveity when it comes to true spiritual integrity. His main forte was the intellect and it's ability to communicate and anchor extreme levels of C7 insight with the use of mushrooms and other psychedelics, I think. There is nothing in his life's work to suggest that sincere emotional honesty was part of his goal and ambition. As far as I see it he was much more into the fix and the ride - and other than comically transmitting as much outrageous cosmic information as he could, he wasn't really interested in real awareness and self-work other than the ideas and intellectually-sourced possibilities of it. An idealist and not a pragmatist. He suffered poor health throughout his life and died at a relatively young age from an aggressive form of brain cancer.
It is so easy to fixate on psychedelics and develop a whole personal philosophy and cosmology that is unconsciously balancing precariously on destructive habit patterns related to party life and drugs. Despite the focus that is needed in the drug experience - they are nonetheless very EASY tools when it comes to consciousness expansion, and given that they do expand one beyond their limitations and beyond their responsibilities, it is all too easy too keep taking them - buffering the responsibility of emotional confrontation that the body may be calling out for.
Ram Das' famous saying was 'when you receive the message, hang up the phone'. -
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Tue, August 18, 2009 - 7:17 PMrob_girl ---
<<His main forte was the intellect and it's ability to communicate and anchor extreme levels of C7 insight with the use of mushrooms and other psychedelics, I think. >>
This C-3/C-7 verticality shaped the vessel for McKenna's genius, representing the almost impossible and always miraculous task of translating higher consciousness events into language others can understand. We are all poorer for losing Terence as early as he had to go. Having met him in person via a casual interview format back in 1992, I was struck by how truly intellectual he was; a very clear and concise mind. My sense around his C-2 emotional life was that it felt to me set aside for his ongoing sexual escapades with women much younger than him and duly impressed by his mind, his Irish charm and his easy access to exotic fungi. I remember him obliviously hitting on my girlfriend at the time, who was flattered but declined his invitation to frolic with the FunGuy.
I'm not anti-drug. As will be fully disclosed in my forthcoming book, I was deep into pharmaceutical experimentation for almost ten years before I quit cold turkey to restore the natural sensitivity of my CNS and the neuropharmacy of my brain. Truth is, I'm a control freak artist who stopped taking drugs when I found a better way to manage (control) my energy and feed the muses that continue inspiring material for the creation of more Art. -
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Tue, August 18, 2009 - 9:21 PMAn interesting story indeed ! !
I agree with what you say here. Your witty 'funguy' pun leaves a lot to be desired though... haha. j/k
Still got the interview around somewhere ? -
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Tue, August 18, 2009 - 10:11 PMMy interview with Terence was published in TALKING RAVEN QUARTERLY in the Media Madness issue, I beiieve, and also in Magical Bland (I mean, Blend) magazine around the same time, circa 1992. I almost included in my new book but, like many other pieces "almost included", it fell to the fate of the cutting room floor. But I do still have it (not on any computer file tho) -
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Wed, August 19, 2009 - 1:07 AMsherpAntero, what are your thoughts about spirituality on this planet in general? -
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Wed, August 19, 2009 - 9:35 AM<<sherpAntero, what are your thoughts about spirituality on this planet in general?>>
Tim -- No offense to you personally but this has got to be one of the most boneheaded questions I've come across. Was there a more specific question hidden inside this one that I'm missing? -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Wed, August 19, 2009 - 1:47 PMhahah just what i was thinking -
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Wed, August 19, 2009 - 5:29 PMbiologically speaking, drugs simply mimic neurotransmitters already found in the nervous system. THC, for example, binds to the same receptor sites as the neurotransmitter anandamide. however there's a huge difference in the quantity of chemical involved and the adverse affects of flooding the brain and nervous system with these non-native neurotransmitters.... not sure how that's relevant to the conversation at hand, but I throw that out there FWIW.
i don't see drugs as good or bad, but like anything else they can be taken too far. i don't agree with the idea that spiritual practice is boring without them, nor do i agree with doing away with them completely. psychedelics played a valuable role in my early spiritual and personal growth, but I simply don't have the time, energy or desire to mess with them these days. someone else may be better off having never taken them or better off taking far more than i can ever imagine. that's their business, not mine.
i can see psychedelics as a bona fide spiritual practice in it's own right, but the more work put into preparation and integration, the more likely for long term, positive results. discipline and commitment still play a role. set and setting and all that. i certainly don't see where i have any business telling a legitimate peruvian ayahuasquero that he's engaging in passive spirituality or bypassing his emotional responsibility, yet i've met plenty who engage in drugs as a form of spiritual bypass. i find the ram dass quote above rather ironic given that that guy prolly ingested more psychoactives than all of us combined. when he hung up the phone, i guess the call was for richard alpert and not baba ram dass.
anyhow, what's interesting to me in the moment is the role psychedelics played in a huge civil/social/cultural revolution of the late 60s. no doubt we have seen a lasting change for the better from that time period and I can't help but believe that it would not have had anywhere near the impact without plenty of LSD-25 to go around. there's a great series out on VH1 (yes, VH1) called Lords of the Revolutions that came out over the last two weeks that really reminded me of all this. they did a really decent job on old Leary in one episode...
www.vh1.com/shows/lords_...episode.jhtml
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Wed, August 19, 2009 - 7:01 PM>> i certainly don't see where i have any business telling a legitimate peruvian
>> ayahuasquero that he's engaging in passive spirituality or bypassing his
>> emotional responsibility, yet i've met plenty who engage in drugs as a form of spiritual bypass.
Very true. But I still ultimately think the peruvian ayahuasquero is missing a piece from his active spirituality if all ceremonies and rituals are centered around a drug, naturally-occurring or otherwise.
The fact is we live in an informational-technological age, where his context is so outdated. Now, there are aspects of his paradigm that our paradigm certainly could use, such as a general respect or even interest in spirituality, or self-change, at large, but in the end I consider him obsolete, except for maybe a few techniques here or there.
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Wed, August 19, 2009 - 7:13 PMQuack, you mentioned the ayahuasquero . . .
You might find this part of Terrence's conversation interesting. He shares his perspective on the "alienated" psychology of such a person.
Sherpa, this may in some way relate to your "solitary" affect.
Start at 31:10.
vids.myspace.com/index.cfm -
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Thu, August 20, 2009 - 12:06 AM<<Sherpa, this may in some way relate to your "solitary" affect. >>
Huh? What "solitary" affect do you refer to? -
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Thu, August 20, 2009 - 12:33 AM>> Huh? What "solitary" affect do you refer to?
Excerpt from your About Me: ... a Married Hermit
I think at one point you had the word solitary in there.
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Wed, August 19, 2009 - 8:09 PM< there's a great series out on VH1 (yes, VH1) called Lords of the Revolutions that came out over the last two weeks that really reminded me of all this. they did a really decent job on old Leary in one episode... >
Yeah, quack, I've been aware of this program before its airing, but haven't been able to track it down, yet, not having VH1... any idea if the full episode is available online?
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Wed, August 19, 2009 - 6:57 PM>> Tim -- No offense to you personally but this has got to be one of the most
>> boneheaded questions I've come across. Was there a more specific question
>> hidden inside this one that I'm missing?
No.
What would you rather be asked instead, sherpAntero? -
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Wed, August 19, 2009 - 11:47 PM?? ??
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Thu, August 20, 2009 - 12:05 AM<<What would you rather be asked instead, sherpAntero?>>
I have no desire to be asked anything; it was you who posited the question which I then found absurd. Look at your question again and see if you can come up with an answer for it...LOL... -
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Thu, August 20, 2009 - 12:49 AM>> I have no desire to be asked anything; it was you who posited the question which I then found absurd.
OK. I understand.
>> Look at your question again and see if you can come up with an answer for it...LOL...
No. I asked you in order to gain another perspective on something I already see in a certain way.
You have communicated you have nothing to share in response to my question other than your thoughts about the question itself.
That's it.
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Thu, August 20, 2009 - 1:32 AM -
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Thu, August 20, 2009 - 2:00 AMah dear.. haha
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Wed, August 19, 2009 - 1:36 AMWell i would be most interested in reading it some time. Your other interviews with Hyatt, Arguelles and the rest from All Rites Reversed and Towards.. are just great
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Re: Terence McKenna, Antero Alli, And You
Wed, August 19, 2009 - 1:04 AM>> I was struck by how truly intellectual he was; a very clear and concise mind.
I certainly picked up on that listening to the video I posted.
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