Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

topic posted Thu, May 21, 2009 - 6:13 AM by  Konstantinos
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Hello kaval lovers,
My name is Konstantinos and I am from Athens Greece.
The last year I discover this instrument and since then I am in love with it. I search the web and I found some instructions how to build it. I already have build 4 from plastic tube. Now it is time to have a real one from wood. I want your help. Here in Athens it is not possible to find a Bulgarian kaval, only Turkish ones.
I find via web two items this one bulgariana.com/product_info.php and this www.shopbulgaria.com/woodwin...orn.html .
What is your opinion?
Do you have any other suggestions?
posted by:
Konstantinos
Greece
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  • Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

    Thu, May 21, 2009 - 6:26 AM
    Welcome, Konstantinos!

    I don't have any experience with the two kaval makers / distributors whose links you posted, but maybe someone else on this tribe has. My own Bulgarian kaval came from another Internet seller, an eBay merchant, actually ... I think I paid US$75 for it ten years ago ... It plays nicely enough for my purposes but is nowhere near a professional instrument.

    When I was in Bulgaria, I had a very hard time finding good kavals ... Most of the stores had tourist souvenir kavals worse that the one that I bought on eBay.

    In Macedonia, I could only find ONE guy who makes good kavals.

    I know that there are more in both countries, but they are just hard to find if you don't know where to look.

    Hey, I'm a huge fan of ALL kaval playing, Macedonian, Bulgarian, Turkish, Albanian ... but I've always wondered if there is a Greek kaval (or any other end-blown flute by a different name). I once heard about a 'sfirobablion' ... is that close?
    • Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

      Thu, May 21, 2009 - 7:33 AM
      sfirobablion? Never heard that word.

      In Greece the end-blown flutes are:
      The short ones (diatonic)
      Kalami (about 20 cm long),
      floyera (about 30 cm long), or Tziradi, or Tzourai, or ….

      The long ones (chromatic)
      Tzamara (about 60 cm long),
      Skipitara or Skiptara (about the same size)
      Kavali of Kaval, or Kavala or ….(the same size and long ones) and
      Ndarvira (it makes a deep sound, I am not sure if it is chromatic)

      The Tzamara and Kavali are the same with the Bulgarian ones. The have 8 holes for the fingers and 4 “Devil holes”. The word Tzamara is in use in Macedonia and Epirus and is a one-piece instrument made from wood, brass tube, iron tube or plastic tube. The Kavali is in use in Thrace, it is made from wood and it is in three pieces.

      Except these names, there are a lot of names are in use in some villages in there special language.
      Maybe the word “sfirobablion” is one of these. Maybe “sfiro” came from the word “sfirao” which means make a whistle. Where did you hear about it?

      End of class, I’ll see you tomorrow. Ha, ha, ha….
  • Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

    Thu, May 21, 2009 - 11:05 PM
    Hi Konstantinos,
    if you are looking for a quality instrument that you'll be happy with for many years, the internet shops are not the right address for you.
    Top quality kavals are made by Veso Hasabaliev. He has a website in English:
    kavalibg.com/en_index.html
    There are more high end makers of course but they cannot be contacted via the web.
    A couple of months ago there was a greek made kaval for sale on Ebay (described as being an antique clarinet) which was very crudely made. The price was more than you would pay for a top class bulgarian kaval.
    Good luck,
    Michael
    • Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

      Fri, May 22, 2009 - 12:02 AM
      Thank you Michael for your answer. I’ll make a contact with Veso Hasabaliev to see if he can send me a kaval.
      By the way, what is the price for a top class Bulgarian kaval?
      • Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

        Mon, May 25, 2009 - 12:07 AM
        I am not sure about Veso's prices, but generally, instruments are very low-priced in Bulgaria (compared to the Western world). For the equivalent of 300 $ at the very most (probably less) you will get an instrument that you'll be happy with for the rest of your life.
        • Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

          Mon, May 25, 2009 - 8:12 AM
          I wonder if that would be with plastic, bone or horn headpiece and joints?
          • Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

            Tue, May 26, 2009 - 6:33 AM
            What do you mean?
            • Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

              Tue, May 26, 2009 - 6:35 AM
              What do you mean Geoff ?
              • Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

                Tue, May 26, 2009 - 11:06 AM
                What do you mean, what do I mean, ha ha? About what, my question about the material of the headpiece and joints?
                • Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

                  Tue, May 26, 2009 - 12:10 PM
                  Geoff, in your first post you wrote " It plays nicely enough for my purposes but is nowhere near a professional instrument."
                  I have a kaval from the same maker and I can second that.
                  The difference in price is the difference between something like this and a professional instrument.
                  In my opinion, 180 € is not very much for a professional instrument, you can pay twice, if not three timees this money for a professional penny(!)whistle.
                  I don't know what material Veso uses for the headpiece and joints, but I don't think it is possible to inlay horn with metal.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

                    Tue, May 26, 2009 - 8:39 PM
                    Sure, I've seen those US$500 low D Irish penny whistles, definitely! My concern is simply this, does the doubling of the price always provide a doubling of tone, quality and workmanship? Sometimes yes, too many times, no. And when I was talking about horn, I didn't mean inlaying horn into metal, I meant inlaying the metal into the horn. I've seen Bulgarian kavals with horn (deer horn, I think) headpieces, tailpieces and joints, and the headpieces had metal rings inlaid into them. I don't know how that could be done ... maybe with the same technique that a jeweler uses to change the size of a ring, who knows? In any case, I would be very interested to compare that 180 Euro kaval to the ones that you and I have from that other maker. 180 Euro is certainly not a lot for a TRULY professional kaval ... but what actually makes one kaval more "professional' than another? Maybe that's a question that needs to be addressed, too.
                    • Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

                      Tue, May 26, 2009 - 11:37 PM
                      You can even get a high D penny whistle for more than $ 500...
                      I have a couple of kavals, some of them considerably better than others. They all play (the ones that didn't I sent back to the internet stores where I got them from...). The main difference is the quality of the bore, resulting in a huge difference in tone, response and tuning. If you look through the instrument and you can clearly see steps, where the drill has been inserted and drawn back, this doesn't necessarily mean it is a bad instrument but it should arouse your suspicion. The really good ones have a smooth bore throughout, with no chips or splinters visible. If this is not the case, it may result in poor tone, bad response (especially in the kaba register) and bad tuning in the higher registers; even if the basic pitch of the instrument is correct and the tone holes are set correctly, the 3rd and 4th registers can be out of tune with the low ones. Sometimes, the cheap ones need some reworking of the toneholes and the mouthpiece. For me (being an instrument maker) this is not much of a problem (provided you know what you're doing...) but if you are not you might find yourself with a badly playing instrument, and you will probably blame it on yourself if you are not an experienced player. If the main bore is done badly there is not much you can do - reaming the bore until all the steps and chips have vanished will result in a different instrument with probably more issues than it had before. All my not-so-good kavals have issues of some kind - good tone, but bad tuning, good tuning but bad tone, one has a great clarinet register but a very weak kaba, one is fine for the kaba but the "hlopka"-techniques don't work properly and so on. If you want an instrument that is nice for just everything, there is no way around getting a professional instrument from a professional maker. IMO, for a starter it is essential having a good instrument or you will end up in frustration.
                      The type of "inlay" you're referring to is done very simply - these are short pieces of horn with metal rings between them, so it's not real inlay work. If you look at Veso's website you will see that he uses a very much different type of ornamentation on his "Orfei" model, I don't know how this is done. To me, it doesn't look like it has bees cast into the material like it is done with the pewter inlays in wood on some fancy kavals.
      • Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

        Mon, July 6, 2009 - 9:16 PM
        Has your kaval from Bai Hasabaliev arrived yet? If so, what do you think of it?
        • Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

          Tue, July 7, 2009 - 1:27 AM
          Veselin Hasabaliev makes good kavals at reasonable prices.
          He is both a professional maker and professional musician
          (i.e., neither occupation is a hobby ...)
          I have my begining students get them from him...
          We've known each other since he was a boy and I was sent
          from Plovdiv to teach kaval in Haskovo (where he lives) in 1972.
          He is also a good kaval player and musician who later on,
          studied at the academy (on kaval) in Plovdiv.
          He has several Youtube videos where you can hear him
          play... (His latest post is a very nice bavna melodia (slow melody.)
  • Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

    Tue, May 26, 2009 - 11:58 PM
    Forget my question “what do you mean” Geoff, I get my answer.

    Michael, as an instrument maker maybe you know a material called Tekstovit. With that material Veso makes headpiece and joints for his Kavals. What do you think about this material?
    Is it easy for you to describe how to produce the sound of the clarinet register?
    What is "hlopka" technique?
    • Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

      Wed, May 27, 2009 - 1:15 AM
      "Textolit" (that's what it's called) is basically tightly rolled up cotton or linen fabric stabilized with a phenolic resin. I think it has been used as an insulation material for electrical engines. It is not available in Germany (or anywhere in the western world, AFAIK), therefore I have never worked with it myself. It is strong, durable and shock resistant, although not particularly pretty. The brown colour is very much like that of the preferred wood. My favourite kaval has the headpiece and joints from textolit, and I have never had any problems with it. I don't know if the material of the headpiece affects the sound at all, but this kaval has the best sound of all (but I think the shape of the edge and the internal qualities of the bore contribute much more to the sound than the material does - I'm not a kaval maker, though).
      It is very easy to describe the sound of the clarinet register - it sounds very much like a clarinet.... it is achieved by squeezing the air through your lips, very much the way you would play a trumpet; only you keep the kaval at the side of your mouth rather than moving it to the middle. The observing audience will never know what you are doing... have a look on Youtube (Theodosii Spassov), on a good few videos he plays the clarinet register. Playing in the clarinet register raises the pitch by one tone, D will sound as E and so on.
      The sound of the "hlopka" is difficult to describe, it is a kind of alteration of one and the same tone, sometimes slowly and only once, sometimes rapidly. You can hear it very well in the slow tunes played by Stoyan Velichkov. If you send me your Email address, I can send you one or two mp3 samples.
      If you want to seriously play the kaval, I would strongly advice you to get lessons from a teacher in Bulgaria (I can recommend Nikolay Doktorov in Varna, he speaks good English, too).
      • Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

        Wed, May 27, 2009 - 2:10 AM
        Michael
        “If you want to seriously play the kaval, I would strongly advice you to get lessons from a teacher in Bulgaria (I can recommend Nikolay Doktorov in Varna, he speaks good English, too)”.

        You have right. I maybe do it from September, via Skype or something similar.
        Thanks for advise.
  • Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

    Wed, May 27, 2009 - 2:28 AM
    I don’t know how to upload photos to a post.
    If you want to see my self make Kavals take a look at my album.
    There are two Kavals in D, one with special mouthpiece and special foot. One “portable” in D and one in C.
    • Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

      Wed, May 27, 2009 - 7:16 AM
      Konstantinos, those are really impressive looking kavals! Much more meticulously done than mine! Is that all colored thread or embroidery floss or some synthetic string? How did you come up with the design of that mouthpiece? All very beautiful work. I don't have any real machine shop equipment, just old electric handtools, so my cuts, holes and lines are never very sharp and clean like yours. Are your kavals made of some kind of standard plumbing pipe? How did you arrive at the locations and proper dimensions for your fingerholes and tone-holes, by mathematical equation or trial-and-error and lots of patience? Great work; I hope that they sound as nice as they look!
      • Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

        Thu, May 28, 2009 - 6:23 AM
        Thank you for your good words.
        The color parts are cerated thread the same with that they use for sewing the shoes.
        The tube is the standard tube (16mm inside, 20mm outside) the electricians use for the cables (not the thin but the heavy one).
        The mouthpiece is made of the same material but in double layer. It helps the instrument to “sit” better on the lips.
        The only tools you want are a saw to cut the tube, a stick from wood for the inside of the tube (helps with the holes), a power drill with a base for vertical perforation, a drill, a cabinet file and sandpaper.
        The dimensions came from some patterns of existing Kavals.
        When you will post some photos of yours?
  • Re: Any suggestions where to buy a kaval?

    Sat, July 4, 2009 - 6:35 AM
    Hello, everybody. I thought I would add this new kaval maker to our conversation. His name is Cory Dale; he lives in Australia and, besides being one very cool, laid back and helpful guy, he's one of the best gaida players I have ever heard, Balkan-born or otherwise. He has just started making and selling his own handmade gaidas and kavals. I have not played either of them yet, but Cory is an amazing musician, very dedicated to learning all about Bulgarian and Macedonian music and getting it right. I would recommend at least contacting him and learning more about the kavals that he is making these days.

    You can see some examples of his work at ...

    www.youtube.com/watch
    www.dalebagpipes.com.au/