Krishnamurti's topics - tribe.net

constant abandonment

TomatoTom — Thu, 22 Nov 2007 06:57:32 GMT

“Meditation is not only constant self-awareness,
but constant abandonment of the self. Out of right
thinking there is meditation, from which there comes
the tranquility of wisdom; and in that serenity the
highest is realized.

Writing down what one thinks and feels, one’s
desires and reactions, brings about an inward
awareness, the cooperation of the unconscious
with the conscious, and thus in turn leads to
integration and understanding."

— J. Krishnamurti
The Book of Life

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OCT 24, 07 - Revolution must begin with you and me.

TomatoTom — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:28:12 GMT

Daily Quote October 24th 2007

Revolution must begin with you and me.

That revolution, that individual transformation, can take place only when we understand relationship, which is the process of self-knowledge. Without knowing the whole process of my relationship at all the different levels, what I think and what I do has no value at all. What basis have I for thinking if I do not know myself?

We are so desirous to act, so eager to do something, to bring some kind of revolution, some kind of amelioration, some change in the world; but without knowing the process of ourselves both at the periphery and inwardly, we have no basis for action, and what we do is bound to create more misery, more strife.

The understanding of oneself does not come through the process of withdrawal from society or through retirement into an ivory tower. If you and I really go into the matter carefully and intelligently, we will see that we can understand ourselves only in relationship and not in isolation.

Nobody can live in isolation. To live is to be related.

It is only in the mirror of relationship that I understand myself, which means that I must be extraordinarily alert in all my thoughts, feelings, and actions in relationship. This is not a difficult process or a superhuman endeavor; and as with all rivers, while the source is hardly perceptible, the waters gather momentum as they move, as they deepen.

In this mad and chaotic world, if you go into this process advisedly, with care, with patience, without condemning, you will see how it begins to gather momentum and that it is not a matter of time.

Revolution must begin with you and me - Collected Works, Vol. VI (38)

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safety.

TomatoTom — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 14:40:03 GMT

what is safety?
where do we look to for our safety?
is safety in objects-people-ourselves?
when do you feel safe?

posted in Krishnamurti - 30 replies

Oct 18, 07 - a sane mind does not seek isolation

TomatoTom — Thu, 18 Oct 2007 14:28:20 GMT

October 18th 2007 - security & isolation
From: jkrishnamurti.org/

To look at social injustice, social misery, social morality and culture in the midst of which organized religions exist, and to deny their validity psychologically, is to become extraordinarily moral. Because after all morality is order; virtue is complete order. And that can only come into being when you deny disorder, the disorder in which we live, the disorder of conflict, of fear in which each individual is seeking personal security.

I do not know if you have ever considered the question of security. You know we find security in commitment; in being committed to something there is a great feeling of security, in being a Communist, in being a Frenchman, or an Englishman, or anything else. That commitment gives us security. If you have committed yourself to a course of action, that commitment gives a great deal of surety, assurance, certainty. But that commitment always breeds disorder, and this is what is actually taking place.

I am a Communist and you are not—whatever you are. We are committed to ideas, to theories, to slogans and so we divide, as you are this and I am that. Whereas if we are involved, not committed, involved in the whole movement of life then there is no division; then we are human beings in sorrow, not a Frenchman in sorrow, not a Catholic in sorrow, but human beings who are guilty, anxious, in agony, lonely, bored with the routine of life. If you are involved in it, then we’ll find a way out of it together. But we like to be committed, we like to be separately secure, not only nationalistically, communally, but also individually. And in this commitment there is isolation. When the mind is isolated it is not sane.

When the mind is isolated it is not sane - Talks in Europe 1968 ()

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Oct 14, 07 - the process of one's consciousness

TomatoTom — Sun, 14 Oct 2007 17:13:19 GMT

from kfa.org

To be an integrated human being is to understand the entire process of one's own consciousness, both the hidden and the open.

- Education and the Significance of Life

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oct 13, 07 - there is no "better" conditioning.

TomatoTom — Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:23:28 GMT

this time from www.kfa.org "krishnamurti foundation of america's" website.

Quote of the Moment
There is the urge that makes for conformity, and the urge to be free. However dissimilar these two urges may seem to be, are they not fundamentally similar? And if they are fundamentally similar, then your pursuit of freedom is vain, for you will only move from one pattern to another, endlessly. There is no noble or better conditioning, and it is this desire that has to be understood.
- Commentaries on Living: Series III

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LA, NY - introductory talk

TomatoTom — Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:30:27 GMT

You are invited ... The KFA is hosting a free event - an introduction to the life and teachings of Jiddu Krishnamurti. Program includes a short film and remarks by Mark Lee, Executive Director of the KFA.

At Beverly Hills Public Library

Sunday, October 21st, 2007 at 2:00 p.m.
Location: Beverly Hills Public Library, 444 N Rexford Dr, Beverly Hills, CA 90210
The presentation features a half-hour film of a Krishnamurti talk, part of an ongoing series suitable for newcomers or return guests. A KFA trustee will give updates on the Foundation's activities. Includes a complimentary publication. This event will conclude with an optional Dialogue Session.
Cost: Free
Reservations are required.

At the Tibet House, New York City

Sunday, October 28th, 2007 at 2:30 p.m
Location: Tibet House, 22 W 15th St # 2, New York, NY
Guest speaker: Mark Lee, Executive Director of the KFA
Cost: Free
Reservations are required.

We regret that this event is now filled to capacity, and we cannot guarantee you a place. If you wish to register, you will be wait listed. We will send an email by Wednesday, October 24, to let you know if you can be accommodated.

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Oct 10, 07 - Q/A and action are simultaneous

TomatoTom — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:53:19 GMT

Daily Quote jkrishnamurti.org October 10th 2007

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What is very important is to ask ourselves these fundamental questions, and to be utterly responsible in finding not only the answer, but, in the very answering of these questions, to act.

Because with us action is not part of the question and its answer. Surely in the fact of asking these fundamental questions and in discovering the answers for ourselves, that very discovery must be expressed in action.

The questioning, the answering and the action are simultaneous and not separate. Because when they are separate then everything is broken up into departments, categories; and out of that division arise prejudices, conflicts, opinions and judgments.

Whereas, it seems to me, if we could really ask, in the very asking we would discover the understanding of question and action; they are not separate. And during these talks, I hope we shall be able not only to ask ourselves these questions but also to understand them, not intellectually or verbally, but with our hearts and with our minds.

In this process of understanding, action takes place.

Questioning, answering and action are simultaneous - Talks in Europe 1968 (47)

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Oct 8. 07 - mind in bondage

TomatoTom — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 14:11:07 GMT

Daily Quote - jkrishnamurti.org - October 8th 2007

So, our problem is: How is the mind to be set free? And, is it possible to set the mind free—not in layers or patches, not in little bits here and there, but totally, right through, the unconscious as well as the conscious? Or, is the mind ever to be conditioned, ever to be shaped? You have to find out for yourself and not wait for me to tell you whether the mind can ever be free. Can the mind only think about freedom, as a prisoner does, and so is doomed never to be free but always to be held within the bondage of its conditioning?
Do you understand the problem? Can the mind ever be totally free, or is it the very nature of the mind to be conditioned? If it is the fundamental quality of the mind to be limited, then there is no question of ever finding out what is reality; then you can go on repeating that there is God or there is no God, that this is good and something else is bad, all of which is within the pattern of a given culture. But, to find out the truth of the matter, you have to inquire for yourself into whether the mind can really be free. I say it can be—which is not for you to accept or reject. It may be true, or it may be my opinion, my fancy, my illusion. And you cannot base your life on somebody else’s discovery, or on his illusion, his fancy, or on a mere idea. You have to find out.

Is it the very nature of the mind to be conditioned? - Collected Works, Vol. X (165)

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Oct 06, 07 (saturday) - The description of food does not feed you

TomatoTom — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 14:33:30 GMT

Daily Quote From jkrishnamurti.org/ October 6th 2007

Do you understand the problem? Only the mind that is free can discover what is true—discover, not be told what is true. The description is not the fact. You may describe something in the most lovely language, put it in the most spiritual or lyrical words, but the word is not the fact. When you are hungry, the description of food does not feed you. But most of us are satisfied with the description of truth, and the description, the symbol, has taken the place of the factual. To discover whether there is a reality or not, we must be capable of seeing the true as the true, the false as the false, and not wait to be told like a lot of immature children.

The description of food does not feed you - Collected Works, Vol. X (165)

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Oct 04, 07 - If you are merely told what happiness is, is that happiness?

TomatoTom — Thu, 04 Oct 2007 13:56:07 GMT

Daily Quote October 4th 2007 www.jkrishnamurti.org/

So, if we want to find out what is this extraordinary state that lies beyond the vagaries of the mind—really experience it, live with it, and know its full meaning—surely there must be freedom, and freedom implies harder work than most of us are willing to undertake. We would rather be led than discover, but one cannot be led to truth. Do please understand this very simple fact. No swami, no system of yoga, no religious organization, no doctrine or belief can lead you to the discovery of truth. Only the free mind can discover. That is obvious, is it not? You cannot discover the truth of anything by merely being told what it is because then the discovery is not yours. If you are merely told what happiness is, is that happiness?

- If you are merely told what happiness is, is that happiness? - Collected Works, Vol. X (165)

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Freedom

lori — Mon, 01 Oct 2007 15:34:47 GMT

This is the beginning of chapter 2 Think on these things. All about freedom.

"I WOULD LIKE to discuss with you the problem of freedom. It is a very complex problem, needing deep study and understanding. We hear much talk about freedom, religious freedom, and the freedom to do what one would like to do. Volumes have been written on all this by scholars. But I think we can approach it very simply and directly, and perhaps that will bring us to the real solution.
I wonder if you have ever stopped to observe the marvelous glow in the west as the sun sets, with the shy young moon just over the trees? Often at that hour the river is very calm, and then everything is reflected on its surface: the bridge, the train that goes over it, the tender moon, and presently, as it grows dark, the stars. It is all very beautiful. And to observe, to watch, to give your whole attention to something beautiful, your mind must be free of preoccupations, must it not? It must not be occupied with problems, with worries, with speculations. It is only when the mind is very quiet that you can really observe, for then the mind is sensitive to extraordinary beauty; and perhaps here is a clue to our problem of freedom.
Now, what does it mean to be free? "

**********

What does it mean to be free? It seems as if we are being slowly persuaded there is no such thing as freedom (how convenient in a country moving towards fascism), freedom is an illusion, and perhaps absolute freedom is an illusion, but I really don't think so.

posted in Krishnamurti - 5 replies

Oct 02, 07 quote

TomatoTom — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:20:53 GMT

Daily Quote - jkrishnamurti.org/
October 2nd 2007

So, it is extraordinarily difficult in this world for the mind to be free. The politician and the so-called religious person talk about freedom—that is one of their catchwords—but they jolly well take care that you are not free because, the moment you are free, you obviously become a danger to society, to organized religion, to all the rotten things that exist about you. It is only the free mind that will find out what is true, it is only the free mind that can be creative; and it is essential, in a culture of this kind, that importance be given, not to the following of a pattern, a doctrine, or a tradition, but to allowing the mind to be creative. But the mind can be creative only when it is free from conditioning, and such freedom is not easily come by; you have to work extraordinarily hard for it.

- The politician and the so-called religious person - Collected Works, Vol. X (164)

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River

shaman sun — Mon, 01 Oct 2007 15:59:02 GMT

"You know what it is to be pliable? Have you ever watched a river? You have? How it flows over a rock? How it moves, never caught in a corner - in a little pool, moving, moving, moving. And if you don't at this age keep moving, you're going to be caught in a little pool of your own making and that is not the river, it is dirty water." - J. Krishnamurti, "Beginnings of Learning"

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Saanen and the Barking Dog

Ken — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 21:44:26 GMT

How did Krishnamurti respond when asked if he would agree to share the stage at a seminar in Saanen with a group of leaders in education, psychology, and the arts, to discuss the worlds' problems?

A. "Krishnaji's answer was short and to the point. "At Saanen,"
he said, "only this dog barks."

ken

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Krishnamurti the Straight Backed Chair Comedian

Ken — Wed, 04 Apr 2007 04:14:43 GMT

"You know, in India we have certain people called sannyasis,
who leave the world in search of truth. They have generally
two loin cloths, the one they put on, and one for the next
day. A sannyasi in search of truth, sought various
teachers. In his wanderings he was told that a certain king
was enlightened, that he was teaching wisdom. So this
sannyasi went to the king. You can see the contrast between
the king and the sannyasi: the king who had everything,
palaces, jewels, courtiers, power; and the sannyasi who had
only two loin cloths. The king instructed him concerning
truth. One day, while the king was teaching him, the palace
caught fire . Serenely the king continued with his
teaching, while the sannyasi, that holy man, was greatly
disturbed because his other loin cloth was burning." Krishnamurti

ken

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What is a teacher FOR?

norcal — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 04:23:25 GMT

Does one need a teacher to recieve "transmission"? This question in some ways represents the very core of Krishnamurti's teachings. In Buddhism, this question has an affirmative answer which many Buddhists hold as obvious. A teacher transmits essential truth in a direct way to a student, and this transmission is regarded as unbroken throughout the lineage of teachers and students going back centuries. And while one can reasonably assert that such transmissions do occur, the question here is about the necessity of such a transmission from a teacher in order to have a direct and clear perception of truth. Through study of what K had to say, it becomes clear that the relationship between student and teacher is one frought with great dangers. Obedience to authority is seen as the fulcrum of humankind's most dastardly and corrupt acts. Stanley Milgram outlined scientifically the mechanisms and conditions under which obedience to authority turns into reckless cruelty for which perpetrators of cruel acts feel no responsibility, having made the "agentic shift" from acting under their own will to submitting the will and direction of another (I was just following orders; I'm not responsible). This move engenders every form and degree of exploitation, and if the teacher is acting out of his or her own conditioning--even to the slightest degree--there is necessarily self-interest, and both student and teacher are doomed into perpetuating the self, carrying all its baggage of violence and pain. Krishnamurti often distilled the teachings into single phrases: There is no teacher. Truth is a pathless land. Be a light unto yourself. The speaker himself has no significance. The seeming paradox is that he acted as teacher his whole life, after first throwing off the chains that the theosophists wrapped around him; setting him up to be the "World Teacher", the incarnation of the Buddha Maitreya. The paradox resolves not in what he did or how he acted, but in how others approached who or what he was. He spoke, declared, reported about the nature of mind and reality and truth, but was careful and zealous to point out that these words had no meaning unless one was to go into and see, and find out for one's self if there is any validity or warrant or weight or depth to the words. We are taking the journey together, he said over and over throughout his life. It's at this "place" where I am asking the question: In the Buddhist tradition, what is understood to be "transmitted"--words and descriptions about truth, or truth itself? Is transmission verbal or silent? Is lineage and history and time necessary to this transmission, or does transmission of truth occur despite lineage and history?

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Krishnamurti on Sex

Ken — Thu, 05 Apr 2007 12:56:54 GMT

How did Krishnamurti respond to D.H. Lawrence's
observation that liberation was only possible momentarily through sex?

A. Krishnaji laughed. Then he was pensively silent for a moment.

"Liberation is sex inverted," he said.

"What do you mean?" I asked, perplexed.

"Think about it," he answered, a half smile on his lips.

I'm still thinking about it." Sidney Field

ken

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loosing hope

Bowdean — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 01:34:40 GMT

my friend just quoted Krishnamurti "using drugs is a sign that you have given up hope"
so I said, "pulling out and cumming on your lover's back is a sign that you've given up hope"
Then he said I was evil and walked out the room to get another beer........

posted in Krishnamurti - 27 replies

Krishnaji: Only Human

shaman sun — Wed, 04 Apr 2007 03:27:58 GMT

I've been Roland Vernon's "Star int he East: The Invention of a Messiah", and I have to say it is an excellent, in depth biography of Krishna. It allows you to explore the human side as well as the divine, as something that is intertwined. Krishnaji had weaknesses, just as we all do. He joked, craved, desired, lusted, had sex for years, was not savvy with money and in his earlier years was quite spacey. And in listing all of these things, I feel a little bit closer to him. There is no need to put him on a pedestal. He is a genius teacher, given, and his talks and books, even presence I am sure have been, and will be insightful and inspiring. It's even more wonderful to realize his full humanity, that perhaps we, even I, seem to forget about for a while. I am sure that world teachers of the past were just as human, just as flawed. To live, to die, to suffer as the rest of us. What I truly appreciate from him is that he never claimed his ability to be soley his. To be. We are all aware of it, can we see it? We are all full of knowledge, but do we know? Thankyou Krisnaji for your message.

posted in Krishnamurti - 1 reply

KFA coming to SF Bay Area at the Sailboat House, Lake Merritt, Oakland

Esotareq 3.0 Alpha — Sun, 18 Mar 2007 05:10:08 GMT

Think it is just a meet and greet event...check it out if you are in the East Bay:

Sunday, March 25, 2007 at 2:30 p.m
Address: 568 Bellevue Avenue, Oakland, California
Parking: $3 per vehicle, or reachable by municipal transit lines
Guest speaker: Mark Lee, Executive Director of the KFA
Cost: Free

Enjoy

T

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J.Krishnamurti Complete Book Collection on CD-ROM

evrk — Sat, 30 Dec 2006 18:09:17 GMT

Die to the past. Live in the moment.
Mind is a bundle of thoughts.
Thought is word.
You are the world.
What is and what should be.

The sparks of insights from J. Krishnamurti made people silent within and made aware of one's consciousness to oneself.

J. Krishnamurti's books are source of solace and insight to most people with intellectual bent. His books collection in its entirety will form a library of its own.

Many of us have good number of Krishnaji's books collected over the years. Carrying these books on tours, travels and transfers is often cumbersome. It is also difficult to remember in which book and page those inspiring passages and words were read and underlined. Even bookmarks are often difficult to locate in print editions.

Also the collection can be never complete due to out of print or out of stock situations.

How about having a CD-ROM containing entire library of JK's book collection. Which we can carry with us on our travels and tours. Also it is easy to locate any word, topic with the full text search function with a click of the mouse.

CD-ROM of complete works, books, writingsof J. Krishnamurt---ever published and unpublished can be your lifelong source of solace, guidance and reference on what J.K ever spoke on consciouseness and on day to day mundane issues.

http://www.rajneeshbooks.com/J.Jiddu.Krishnamurti/index.htm

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December 1, 2006 - the source of compassion

TomatoTom — Fri, 01 Dec 2006 19:22:51 GMT

" Compassion is not hard to come by when the heart is not filled with the cunning things of the mind. It is the mind with its demands and fears, its attachments and denials, its determinations and urges, that destroys love. And how difficult it is to be simple about all this! You don't need philosophies and doctrines to be gentle and kind.

The efficient and the powerful of the land will organize to feed and clothe the people, to provide them with shelter and medical care. This is inevitable with the rapid increase of production; it is the function of well-organized government and a balanced society.

But organization does not give the generosity of the heart and hand. Generosity comes from quite a different source, a source beyond all measure. Ambition and envy destroy it as surely as fire burns.

This source must be touched, but one must come to it empty-handed, without prayer, without sacrifice. Books cannot teach, nor can any guru lead to, this source. It cannot be reached through the cultivation of virtue, though virtue is necessary, nor through capacity and obedience.

When the mind is serene, without any movement, it is there. Serenity is without motive, without the urge for the more."

"Come to It Empty-Handed" - The Book of Life

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Oct 30, 06 - decorating your prison cell

TomatoTom — Mon, 30 Oct 2006 14:01:51 GMT

<> >< <> >< <> >< <> >< <> >< <> >< <> >< <> ><
"How am I to transform?

I see the truth - at least, I see something in it - that a change, a transformation, must begin at a level that the mind, as the conscious or the unconscious, cannot reach, because my consciousness as a whole is conditioned.

So, what am I to do? I hope I am making the problem clear?

If I may put it differently, Can my mind, the conscious as well as the unconscious, be free of society? - society being all the education, the culture, the norm, the values, the standards. Because if it is not free, then whatever change it tries to bring about within that conditioned state is still limited, and therefore no change at all.

So, can I look without any motive?

Can my mind exist without any incentive, without any motive to change or not to change? Because any motive is the outcome of the reaction of a particular culture, is born out of a particular background.

So, can my mind be free from the given culture in which I have been brought up?

This is really quite an important question. Because if the mind is not free from the culture in which it has been reared, nurtured, surely the individual can never be at peace, can never have freedom. His gods and his myths, his symbols, and all his endeavors are limited, for they are still within the field of the conditioned mind. Whatever efforts he makes, or does not make, within that limited field, are really futile in the deepest sense of that word.

There may be a better decoration of the prison, more light - more windows, better food - but it is still the prison of a particular culture."

"Transformation Without Motivation"
<> >< <> >< <> >< <> >< <> >< <> >< <> >< <> ><

from Jkrishnamurti.org

posted in Krishnamurti - 3 replies

Oct 28, 2006 - Real Change

TomatoTom — Sat, 28 Oct 2006 13:45:34 GMT

<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>

"A change is possible only from the known to the unknown, not from the known to the known. Do please think this over with me.

In the change from the known to the known, there is authority, there is hierarchical outlook of life - 'You know, I do not know. Therefore, I worship you, I create a system, I go after a guru, I follow you because you are giving me what I want to know, you are giving me a certainty of conduct that will produce the result, the success and the result.'

Success is the known. I know what it is to be successful. That is what I want.

So we proceed from the known to the known, in which authority must exist - the authority of sanction, the authority of the leader, the guru, the hierarchy, the one who knows and the other who does not know - and the one who knows must guarantee me the success, the success in my endeavor, in change, so that I will be happy, I will have what I want. Is that not the motive for most of us to change?

Do please observe your own thinking, and you will see the ways of your own life and conduct. …When you look at it, is that change? Change, revolution, is something from the known to the unknown, in which there is no authority, in which there may be total failure.

But if you are assured that you will achieve, you will succeed, you will be happy, you will have everlasting life, then there is no problem. Then you pursue the well-known course of action, which is, yourself being always at the center of things."

"Real Change"

<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
from Jkrishnamurti.org

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Oct 21, 2006 - ...when reaction is suspended...

TomatoTom — Sat, 21 Oct 2006 15:12:16 GMT

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I hope that you will listen, but not with the memory of what you already know; and this is very difficult to do.

You listen to something, and your mind immediately reacts with its knowledge, its conclusions, its opinions, its past memories. It listens, inquiring for a future understanding. Just observe yourself, how you are listening, and you will see that this is what is taking place. Either you are listening with a conclusion, with knowledge, with certain memories, experiences, or you want an answer, and you are impatient.

You want to know what it is all about, what life is all about, the extraordinary complexity of life. You are not actually listening at all. You can only listen when the mind is quiet, when the mind doesn't react immediately, when there is an interval between your reaction and what is being said. Then in that interval there is a quietness, there is a silence in which alone there is a comprehension, which is not intellectual understanding.

If there is a gap between what is said and your own reaction to what is said, in that interval, whether you prolong it indefinitely, for a long period or for a few seconds - in that interval, if you observe, there comes clarity. It is the interval that is the new brain.

The immediate reaction is the old brain, and the old brain functions in its own traditional, accepted, reactionary, animalistic sense. When there is an abeyance of that, when the reaction is suspended, when there is an interval, then you will find that the new brain acts, and it is only the new brain that can understand, not the old brain."

"There Is a Quietness"
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from Jkrishnamurti.com

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Oct 20, 06 - Active but Quiet

TomatoTom — Fri, 20 Oct 2006 14:08:49 GMT

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To discover the new mind, not only is it necessary for us to understand the responses of the old brain, it is also necessary for the old brain to be quiet. The old brain must be active but quiet.

You are following what I am saying?
If you would discover for yourself firsthand - not what somebody else says - if there is a reality, if there is such a thing as God - the word 'God' is not the fact - your old brain, which has been nurtured in a tradition, either anti-God or pro-God, in a culture, in an environmental influence and propaganda, through centuries of social assertion, must be quiet.

Because otherwise it will only project its own images, its own concepts, its own values. But those values, those concepts, those beliefs are the result of what you have been told, or are the result of your reactions to what you have been told; so, unconsciously, you say, This is my experience!

So you have to question the very validity of experience - your own experience or of the experience of anybody else; it does not matter who it is. Then by questioning, enquiring, asking, demanding, looking, listening attentively, the reactions of the old brain become quiet.

But the brain is not asleep; it is very active, but it is quiet. It has come to that quietness through observation, through investigation. And to investigate, to observe, you must have light; and the light is your constant alertness.

"Active but Quiet"
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Oct 19, 06 - the immediacy of transformation

TomatoTom — Thu, 19 Oct 2006 16:04:23 GMT

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You need a new mind, a mind that is free of time, a mind that no longer thinks in terms of distance or space, a mind that has no horizon, a mind that has no anchorage or haven.

You need such a mind to deal not only with the everlasting, but also with the immediate problems of existence.

Therefore the issue is: Is it possible for each one of us to have such a mind? Not gradually, not to cultivate it because cultivation, development, a process, implies time.
It must take place immediately; there must be a transformation now, in the sense of a timeless quality. Life is death, and death is awaiting you; you cannot argue with death as you can argue with life.

So is it possible to have such a mind? - not as an achievement, not as a goal, not as a thing to be aimed at, not as something to be arrived at, because all that implies time and space.

We have a very convenient, luxurious theory that there is time to progress, to arrive, to achieve, to come near truth. That is a fallacious idea, it is an illusion completely - time is an illusion in that sense.

"A Mind Without Anchorage or Haven"
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from jkrishnamurti.org

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Oct 18, 06 - mechanical habit mind

TomatoTom — Wed, 18 Oct 2006 15:10:50 GMT

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
"How is the religious mind or the new mind to come into being?
Will you have a system, a method? Through a method - a method being a system, a practice, a repetitive thing day after day? Will a method produce a new mind? …Surely, a method implies a continuity of a practice, directed along a certain line towards a certain result - which is to acquire a mechanical habit, and through that mechanical habit to realize a mind which is not mechanical....

When you say, 'discipline', all discipline is based on a method according to a certain pattern; and the pattern promises you a result which is predetermined by a mind which has already a belief, which has already taken a position. So, will a method, in the widest or the narrowest sense of that word, bring about this new mind?

If it does not, then method as habit must go completely, because it is false. …Method only conditions the mind according to the result which is desired. You have to discard all the mechanical processes of the mind. …The mind must discard all the mechanical processes of thought.

So, the idea that a method, a system, a discipline, a continuity of habit will bring about this mind is not true. So, all that is to be discarded totally as being mechanical. A mind that is mechanical is a traditional mind; it cannot meet life, which is non mechanical; so, the method is to be put aside."

"Discard All Methods"
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From Jkrishnamurti.com

posted in Krishnamurti - 0 replies

Oct 17, 06 - a new mind, fresh, alive... a young mind...

TomatoTom — Tue, 17 Oct 2006 16:11:02 GMT

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I think constant endeavor to be something, to become something, is the real cause of the destructiveness and the aging of the mind. Look how quickly we are aging, not only the people who are over sixty, but also the young people. How old they are already, mentally! Very few sustain or maintain the quality of a mind that is young.

I mean by young not the mind that merely wants to enjoy itself, to have a good time, but the mind that is uncontaminated, that is not scratched, warped, twisted by the accidents and incidents of life, a mind that is not worn out by struggle, by grief, by constant strivings.

Surely it is necessary to have a young mind because the old mind is so full of the scars of memories that it cannot live, it cannot be earnest; it is a dead mind, a decided mind. A mind that has decided and lives according to its decisions is dead.

But a young mind is always deciding anew, and a fresh mind does not burden itself with innumerable memories. A mind that carries no shadow of suffering, though it may pass through the valley of sorrow, remains unscratched….

I do not think such a young mind is to be acquired. It is not a thing that you can purchase through endeavor, through sacrifice. There is no coin to it and it is not a marketable thing, but if you see the importance of it, the necessity of it, if you see the truth of it, then something else takes place."

"A Fresh Mind"
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from Jkrishnamurti.org

posted in Krishnamurti - 1 reply

Oct 16, 06 - Old brains / New Brains

TomatoTom — Mon, 16 Oct 2006 13:45:19 GMT

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"I think it is important to understand the operation, the functioning, the activity of the old brain. When the new brain operates, the old brain cannot possibly understand the new brain. It is only when the old brain, which is our conditioned brain, our animalistic brain, the brain that has been cultivated through centuries of time, which is everlastingly seeking its own security, its own comfort - it is only when that old brain is quiet that you will see that there is a different kind of movement altogether, and it is this movement that is going to bring clarity. It is this movement that is clarity itself.

To understand, you must understand the old brain, be aware of it, know all its movements, its activities, its demands, its pursuits, and that is why meditation is very important. I do not mean the absurd, systematized cultivation of a certain habit of thought, and the rest of it; that's all too immature and childish.

By meditation I mean to understand the operations of the old brain, to watch it, to know how it reacts, what its responses are, its tendencies, its demands, its aggressive pursuits - to know the whole of that, the unconscious as well as the conscious part of it. When you know it, when there is an awareness of it, without controlling it, without directing it, without saying, 'This is good; this is bad; I'll keep this; I won't keep that,' - when you see the total movement of the old mind, when you see it totally, then it becomes quiet."

"The Old Brain, Our Animalistic Brain"
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from jkrishnamurti.org

posted in Krishnamurti - 0 replies

Oct 15, 06 - Why does the mind grow old?

TomatoTom — Sun, 15 Oct 2006 15:17:57 GMT

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"Why does the mind grow old?

It is old, is it not, in the sense of getting decrepit, deteriorating, repeating itself, caught in habits - sexual habits, religious habits, job habits, or various habits of ambition.

The mind is so burdened with innumerable experiences and memories, so marred and scarred with sorrow that it cannot see anything freshly but is always translating what it sees in terms of its own memories, conclusions, formulas, always quoting; it is authority-bound; it is an old mind. You can see why it happens. All our education is merely the cultivation of memory; and there is this mass communication through journals, the radio, the television; there are the professors who read lectures and repeat the same thing over and over again until your brain soaks in what they have repeated, and you vomit it up in an examination and get your degree and go on with the process - the job, the routine, the incessant repetition. Not only that, but there is also our own inward struggle of ambition with its frustrations, the competition not only for jobs but for God, wanting to be near him, asking the quick road to him….

So, what is happening is that through pressure, through stress, through strain, our minds are being crowded, drowned by influence, by sorrow, consciously or unconsciously. …We are wearing down the mind, not using it."

"Drowned by Influence"

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From the website Jkrishnamurti.org

posted in Krishnamurti - 0 replies

Oct 14, 06 - The innocent mind

TomatoTom — Sat, 14 Oct 2006 15:06:52 GMT

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"You have only one instrument, which is the mind; and the mind is the brain also. Therefore, to find out the truth of this matter, you must understand the ways of the mind, must you not?

If the mind is crooked you will never see straight; if the mind is very limited you cannot perceive the illimitable. The mind is the instrument of perception and, to perceive truly, the mind must be made straight, it must be cleansed of all conditioning, of all fear.

The mind must also be free of knowledge, because knowledge diverts the mind and makes things twisted. The enormous capacity of the mind to invent, to imagine, to speculate, to think - must not this capacity be put aside so that the mind is very clear and very simple? Because it is only the innocent mind, the mind that has experienced vastly and yet is free of knowledge and experience; it is only such a mind that can discover that which is more than brain and mind. Otherwise, what you discover will be colored by what you have already experienced, and your experience is the result of your conditioning."

"Knowledge Diverts the Mind"

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from: jkrishnamurti.org/

posted in Krishnamurti - 0 replies

Oct 11, 06 - the quiet mind is active

TomatoTom — Wed, 11 Oct 2006 14:36:14 GMT

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"The mind that is really still is astonishingly active, alive, potent - not towards anything in particular. It is only such a mind which is verbally free - free from experience, from knowledge. Such a mind can perceive what is true, such a mind has direct perception, which is beyond time.

The mind can only be silent when it has understood the process of time and that requires watchfulness, does it not? Must not such a mind be free, not from anything, but be free? We only know freedom from something. A mind that is free from something is not a free mind; such freedom, the freedom from something, is only a reaction, and it is not freedom. A mind that is seeking freedom is never free.

But the mind is free when it understands the fact, as it is, without translating, without condemning, without judging; and being free, such a mind is an innocent mind, though it lived 100 days, 100 years, having all the experiences. It is innocent because it is free, not from anything but in itself. It is only such a mind that can perceive that which is true, which is beyond time."

"The Active Still Mind"

from the website - jkrishnamurti.org/

posted in Krishnamurti - 0 replies

Oct 10, 2006 - choiceless awareness

TomatoTom — Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:55:41 GMT

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"Great seers have always told us to acquire experience. They have said that experience gives us understanding. But it is only the innocent mind, the mind unclouded by experience, totally free from the past - it is only such a mind that can perceive what is reality.

If you see the truth of that, if you perceive it for a split second, you will know the extraordinary clarity of a mind that is innocent. This means the falling away of all the encrustations of memory, which is the discarding of the past.

But to perceive it, there can be no question of 'how'. Your mind must not be distracted by the 'how', by the desire for an answer. Such a mind is not an attentive mind.

As I said earlier in this talk, in the beginning is the end. In the beginning is the seed of the ending of that which we call sorrow. The ending of sorrow is realized in sorrow itself, not away from sorrow. To move away from sorrow is merely to find an answer, a conclusion, an escape; but sorrow continues. Whereas, if you give it your complete attention, which is to be attentive with your whole being, then you will see that there is an immediate perception in which no time is involved, in which there is no effort, no conflict; and it is this immediate perception, this choiceless awareness that puts an end to sorrow."

"This Choiceless Awareness" - The Book of Life

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copied from the website: jkrishnamurti.org

posted in Krishnamurti - 0 replies

Oct 9, 06 - sinners & saints

TomatoTom — Mon, 09 Oct 2006 15:07:51 GMT

“To progress from being a sinner to being a saint is to progress from one illusion to another”
-J. Krishnamurti

posted in Krishnamurti - 2 replies

holistic vision

TomatoTom — Wed, 08 Feb 2006 16:45:10 GMT

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What I want to communicate is very difficult to put into words.
You cannot understand the whole significance of life through a division, through a part, and all of our effort is to go through a part, through individuality, through getting rid of hindrances, through effort, which creates another particularity.
Effort exists so long as there is a part and you cannot come through a part to the whole.
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posted in Krishnamurti - 5 replies

internal contradictions

TomatoTom — Wed, 08 Feb 2006 16:42:49 GMT

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Now what brings about contradiction in each one of us?
Surely it is the desire to become something, is it not?
We all want to become something: to become successful in the world and, inwardly, to achieve a result.
So long as we think in terms of time, in terms of achievement, in terms of position, there must be contradiction.
After all, the mind is the product of time.
Thought is based on yesterday, on the past; and so long as thought is functioning within the field of time, thinking in terms of the future, of becoming, gaining, achieving, there must be contradiction, because then we are incapable of facing exactly what is.
Only in realizing, in understanding, in being choicelessly aware of what is, is there a possibility of freedom from that disintegrating factor which is contradiction.
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posted in Krishnamurti - 0 replies

What is Knowledge?

TomatoTom — Wed, 04 Jan 2006 15:59:19 GMT

" What is knowledge? It is acquired through thousands of years through experience, stored in the brain as knowledge and memory. And from that memory thought arises. So knowledge is limited always, whether now or in the future. And so thought is always limited. And where there is limitation there is conflict. So what place has creativity with regard to science? Is there a relationship at all? Please, we are thinking together, we are questioning the very source, the very accumulative process of knowledge. Science means knowledge - Latin and so on. And can creativity in its deepest sense, in its profound activity, what place has creativity, or creation with regard to knowledge? We have given tremendous importance to knowledge, from the ancient times, from China, India, before the Christian civilization came into being they were tremendously respectful, worshipped knowledge.

And knowledge, as we said before, is always limited because it is based on experience and so memory, thought, is limited. Thought has created the most extraordinary things in the world - all the great monuments, from the ancient of times, great art, vast technology in the present day, and the creation of a nuclear bomb and so on. Thought has brought about an extraordinary state in the world. Thought has created god, built the vast cathedrals of Europe, all the things that are in the museums - poetry, statues, and all the marvellous things that thought has done. Because thought is the outcome of knowledge, knowledge is science, expressed technologically or otherwise. Thought also has created wars - and we are faced with another war, maybe.

And human beings for the last five thousand or more years have been killing each other in the name of god, in the name of peace, in the name of their own particular tribal country. Man has destroyed other human beings, now, in the present civilization where we are gathered here, where they are producing these enormous destructive things. That is the result of science which is knowledge."

posted in Krishnamurti - 0 replies

Listening

TomatoTom — Mon, 02 Jan 2006 18:15:19 GMT

"How do you listen?

Do you listen with your projections, through your projection, through your ambitions, desires, fears, anxieties, through hearing only what you want to hear, only what will be satisfactory, what will gratify, what will give comfort, what will for the moment alleviate your suffering?

If you listen through the screen of your desires, then you obviously listen to your own voice; you are listening to your own desires.

And is there any other form of listening?

Is it not important to find out how to listen not only to what is being said but to everything - to the noise in the streets, to the chatter of birds, to the noise of the tramcar, to the restless sea, to the voice of your husband, to your wife, to your friends, to the cry of a baby?

Listening has importance only when one is not projecting one's own desires through which one listens.

Can one put aside all these screens through which we listen, and really listen?"

posted in Krishnamurti - 0 replies

Ojai Winter Dialogues

TomatoTom — Fri, 30 Dec 2005 22:07:58 GMT

From the website: http://www.kfa.org/

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Ojai Winter Dialogues
February 17th -20th, 2006
Ojai, California
Topic: Time and Timelessness: Is psychological time an illusion?

Physical time as measured by the clock is a necessary and rather important part of our lives. Isn’t it obvious that we could not write our own name nor find the way home if we did not have a clear sense of the meaning of time. Do we then extend this sense of time into the psychological realm thereby creating the illusion that psychological time as thought truly exists and has real meaning in one’s life? Does the brain invent time in order to achieve a desired reward by attempting to change ‘what is’ into ‘what should be’?

“To me tomorrow does not exist, psychologically.”
- J. Krishnamurti, Ojai 1980

Is it possible that there is no psychological evolution? What happens if we see that time is the enemy? Would it then be possible to put an end to time? Let us come together as friends to see what it might mean to discover if there is an energy which is not the movement of thought as time—an energy which may be timeless.

The beautiful campus of Oak Grove School will provide the venue for the Weekend Dialogue and Retreat.
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posted in Krishnamurti - 0 replies

Krishnamurti Websites

TomatoTom — Fri, 30 Dec 2005 22:06:35 GMT

jkrishnamurti.org/
kfa.org/ - Krishnamurti foundation of America
kinfonet.org - the earth is full of sound. and we seek silence.

posted in Krishnamurti - 0 replies

Generosity of the Heart

TomatoTom — Fri, 30 Dec 2005 22:03:33 GMT

""We are going to talk about something that needs a mind that can penetrate very profoundly. We must begin very near because we cannot go very far if we do not know how to begin very close, if we do not know how to take the first step. The flowering of meditation is goodness, and the generosity of the heart is the beginning of meditation. We have talked about many things concerning life, authority, ambition, fear, greed, envy, death, time; we have talked about many things. If you observe, if you have gone into it, if you have listened rightly, those are all the foundation for a mind that is capable of meditating. You cannot meditate if you are ambitious ”you may play with the idea of meditation. If your mind is authority-ridden, bound by tradition, accepting, following, you will never know what it is to meditate on this extraordinary beauty....

It is the pursuit of its own fulfillment through time that prevents generosity. And you need a generous mind ”not only a wide mind, a mind that is full of space, but also a heart that gives without thought, without a motive, and that does not seek any reward in return. But to give whatever little one has or however much one has ”that quality of spontaneity of outgoing, without any restriction, without any withholding, is necessary. There can be no meditation without generosity, without goodness ”which is to be free from pride, never to climb the ladder of success, never to know what it is to be famous; which is to die to whatever has been achieved, every minute of the day. It is only in such fertile ground that goodness can grow, can flower. And meditation is the flowering of goodness.""

posted in Krishnamurti - 0 replies