Apologies if this topic has already been covered before, but I don't have time to scour every thread here and I visit Tribe rarely these days as it is.
Anyway, I've been a student of the mystical traditions for many years and I'm concerned with an aspect of The Secret that I haven't seen anyone bring up before and which just entered my mind the other day.
While there is merit in the Law of Attraction, "The Secret" seems to be presented in a rather "magic bullet" manner that implies people can create their reality as they desire.
I see this as horrendously irresponsible and even opportunistic in a culture that is pitted between obsessive materialism and neurotic spirituality.
I've seen The Secret become somewhat of a pseudo-religion that is custom-fitted for and highly attractive to the Egos in a society that is conditioned towards conspicuous consumerism and materialistic ideals that actually take us away from the deeper spiritual values that give meaning and purpose to life.
I see an unprecedented syndrome of manic-depressive spiritualism on the horizon as people, desperately seeking personal empowerment, are pitted between the hopeful belief that they can control their world vs. inevitably succumbing to despair and frustration as they fall short of such vaulted aspirations.
How many people do you think really consider where this path of god-like power ends? If we could control everything, then what do you think would happen to our morals, values as individuals and as societies?
As the saying goes, Absolute Power Absolutely Corrupts. If one could control everything, then how would they ever face their mortality and faults such that they would experience the humility necessary to find Compassion which is what leads humanity time and again out of Darkness?
If we didn't have to struggle for our achievements, our life would lose passion and meaning.
If nothing challenged us, how would we grow?
If we controlled everything in our life, how would we generate the diversity that enriches our soul?
...Perhaps I'm missing or forgetting something about what the key proponents of The Secret have asserted, but as far as I understand it, they are essentially saying that people can create their entire reality as they desire to have it.
I will agree that on a certain level of consciousness this *may* be true. Perhaps yogis and other assorted mystics and masters can attain such powers of manifestation, but if we look closely at such figures, we can immediately see that they do not use such powers for material or personal gain.
I think that such consciousness is not even remotely possible to attain within the context of agreements comprising present mainstream society.
I believe that the world we live in requires a very mindful balance between having the Grace to Accept What Is and Negotiate in the Co-Creation we collectively experience while still forging one's own Path with Intention, Will and Action.
I think that we have an incredibly sublime opportunity to experience this dance between Duality & One-ness, however I feel that The Secret overlooks that opportunity and lays a groundwork for rampant egocentricity and expectations that negate the beauty of what it means to flow gracefully and vulnerably in the stream that passes between Spirit & Matter.
What do you think?
Is "The Secret" really just the newest version of social subversion designed to pull people back from the verge of spiritual breakthrough into the black hole of materialism?
Anyway, I've been a student of the mystical traditions for many years and I'm concerned with an aspect of The Secret that I haven't seen anyone bring up before and which just entered my mind the other day.
While there is merit in the Law of Attraction, "The Secret" seems to be presented in a rather "magic bullet" manner that implies people can create their reality as they desire.
I see this as horrendously irresponsible and even opportunistic in a culture that is pitted between obsessive materialism and neurotic spirituality.
I've seen The Secret become somewhat of a pseudo-religion that is custom-fitted for and highly attractive to the Egos in a society that is conditioned towards conspicuous consumerism and materialistic ideals that actually take us away from the deeper spiritual values that give meaning and purpose to life.
I see an unprecedented syndrome of manic-depressive spiritualism on the horizon as people, desperately seeking personal empowerment, are pitted between the hopeful belief that they can control their world vs. inevitably succumbing to despair and frustration as they fall short of such vaulted aspirations.
How many people do you think really consider where this path of god-like power ends? If we could control everything, then what do you think would happen to our morals, values as individuals and as societies?
As the saying goes, Absolute Power Absolutely Corrupts. If one could control everything, then how would they ever face their mortality and faults such that they would experience the humility necessary to find Compassion which is what leads humanity time and again out of Darkness?
If we didn't have to struggle for our achievements, our life would lose passion and meaning.
If nothing challenged us, how would we grow?
If we controlled everything in our life, how would we generate the diversity that enriches our soul?
...Perhaps I'm missing or forgetting something about what the key proponents of The Secret have asserted, but as far as I understand it, they are essentially saying that people can create their entire reality as they desire to have it.
I will agree that on a certain level of consciousness this *may* be true. Perhaps yogis and other assorted mystics and masters can attain such powers of manifestation, but if we look closely at such figures, we can immediately see that they do not use such powers for material or personal gain.
I think that such consciousness is not even remotely possible to attain within the context of agreements comprising present mainstream society.
I believe that the world we live in requires a very mindful balance between having the Grace to Accept What Is and Negotiate in the Co-Creation we collectively experience while still forging one's own Path with Intention, Will and Action.
I think that we have an incredibly sublime opportunity to experience this dance between Duality & One-ness, however I feel that The Secret overlooks that opportunity and lays a groundwork for rampant egocentricity and expectations that negate the beauty of what it means to flow gracefully and vulnerably in the stream that passes between Spirit & Matter.
What do you think?
Is "The Secret" really just the newest version of social subversion designed to pull people back from the verge of spiritual breakthrough into the black hole of materialism?
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SF Bay Area
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Re: The Darkside of "The Secret"?
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 12:00 AMso, if i understand correctly, you are saying that your expectation of humans is that if they understand the underlying ways the universe works, they'll just use it to get a bigger car? ;^) methinks you underestimate people.
i think the secret was a fantastic introduction to the law of attraction, bringing an incredible shift in thinking into the public eye... it was also my intro to the law of attraction, so i'm very thankful for it. i was psyched when i found a copy in thai (it's all over the bookstores there too) to give my friend who doesn't speak english, so he could understand some of the things i study that my thai vocabulary isn't good enough to express... he's a traditional buddhist and usually only reads buddhist teachings, and he was very interested in it, too.
but remember, the law of attraction doesn't say we CAN create our own reality, it says we DO create our own reality... it's not optional, and it's not something we can manipulate.. it's automatic, and we've been doing it all along, we just haven't been aware of it.
letting people know how it works is just giving them insights into something they're already doing, so they can choose to get the most out of by learning to send out clearer vibrations of what they want.
this is taught by any of the teachers i've seen speak about it... that "the secret" is that we get what we think about, and that everything in the physical world begins with a thought... that thoughts become things, so when you can control you thoughts and emotions, you control your vibration, and then you attract to you things of matching vibrations.
i find your words "manic-depressive spiritualism" and "inevitably succumbing to desperation and frustration as they fall short" interesting, marley... because someone who's taken on living with an awareness of the law of attraction starts to build muscle in managing their emotional state, and learns the skill of shifting emotions to a more positive place.
people who study the law of attraction know better than to focus on "but won't i be miserable and hate everything when i fail?" -- that is a conceptual oxymoron.
heck, that's why most of us are here in this tribe, because we are building our law of attraction muscles. i know that in my time studying through abraham, the secret, neal donald walsch, seth, and other materials that i read and seek out, i am learning to see that frustration is a sign that i'm resisting something , and desperation? i don't think i could allow myself to ever fully go there again. it would be like trying to forget how to drive a car when i most needed to get somewhere. at least i hope so ;^)
and i'm not sure where you connect the law of attraction with morals and values. does the universe have values? i don't think so, i think that's a human construct. the law of attraction works exactly the same for hitler as for jesus, for obama and for bush, for bill gates and mother theresa. different people use their ability to generate the reality they want to. if they want a hopeful loving reality, they get that. and if they want a nasty reality, they get that, and whether or not they understand how it works.
ok, that was the long answer.
the short answer is... if you say so ;^)
(interesting question, thanks for the chance to put my mind to this) -
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Re: The Darkside of "The Secret"?
Thu, April 3, 2008 - 5:08 PMThank you for your thoughts Leslie! :o)
Actually, my concern comes from the fact that I *don't* underestimate people.
I'm not just a student of mystical traditions but have studied psychology, cultural anthropology, critical thinking, history, etc. and have observed human tendencies with technologies of all kinds.
I would agree that one who opens up to realities like the Law of Attraction tend to also open up to higher levels of consciousness and the values that naturally arise in such dimensions of development.
However, I have seen (and experienced) how challenging it is to overcome the Ego and route out the myriad of self-serving "programs" the Ego creates.
I'm not concerned whether someone will use the Law of Attraction to get a nicer car. Someone could use the LoA simply for manifesting *dependable* car! My concern is about how this Power will be used in the Web of Life as everything we do affects it.
Simply put, the LoA is only a very small part of the whole picture. The LoA is one of many Laws/Powers, and like most (or all) others, can be used for good or ill. There's a reason why such Laws/Powers have been closely guarded for thousands of years and only given to those who have proven their ability through years of discipline and merit to wield such powers responsibly. When power is given to someone who hasn't learned the value of that power or the responsibilities it brings, disaster usually follows.
I'm asking how we may know if it's really for the better to deliver a single Law to the masses in such shotgun fashion vs. through the tried and true traditions of Master to Student(s) where teachings are given in a relatively controlled environment for safe practicing.
I could use countless examples, but I'll just use car driving as a simple one. You can learn how to operate a car, but it would be disastrous to drive it without knowing ALL the Road Laws to follow for the safety and wellbeing of yourself and others.
This is still all besides some of the finer points I brought up which I don't think you really addressed here such as learning the Law of Allowance and the importance of Grace and Compassion. The LoA does not (seem to) inherently teach those two merits (maybe I'm wrong?). At face value, it's simply a disclaimer about how we create our reality. What I'm pointing to here is that it's important for us to consider *why* we would choose to create one thing vs. another.
I think it's self-sabotaging to be given the power to control everything. The greatest blessings in my life have come through series of events that I would never have chosen to create had I any sense that I could control their unfolding.
Anyway, Life seems to have pretty much been a non-stop experiment from the Beginning. It will be interesting to see how opening The Secret up to the masses plays out. Will humanity be better for it or not?
More and more I have seen long-guarded mysteries and secrets being revealed to the world. Was it "selfish" to "hide" such secrets in the past? Could more despair have been averted had such technologies been released earlier? Humans hunger for anything that gives them Access to their Desires. It's about Freedom, yes? But Freedom has a Dark and Light side that we must all be aware of lest we invite horrors into the world by careless use of such Freedom.
On a sidenote, you said that the LoA is just automatic and that we can't manipulate it, but then you go on to describe how people *do* manipulate reality through the LoA (consciously or not). This seems to me *exactly* how the LoA is being taught. It tells you in a very detailed and specific way how you can manifest your desires -for personal gain or for greater good.
In essence, Knowledge of How the LoA works is in itself a technology by which people *can* manipulate their reality. And as I said before, I'm seeing all the attention being put on that and not including the importance of assuming responsibility for that power. This neglectful teaching is what I'm concerned with.
I get where you're going when you mention building the muscles used to control emotional state and vibrations, and perhaps I'm underestimating the simplicity of how the LoA might have a sort of built-in "safety feature" that automatically shifts one into higher emotions and intentions. I would love to discover that to be true. Since I was concerned about the Higher Good long before I learned how the LoA works, I can't really say from experience.
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Re: The Darkside of "The Secret"?
Fri, April 4, 2008 - 2:22 PMleslie, what a beautifull, heartwarming and uplifting post...
thank you...
and thank you marley for inspiring it...
love
kaalii
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Re: The Darkside of "The Secret"?
Fri, April 4, 2008 - 5:36 PMi think that is exactly it, that the more someone understands the law of attraction, there is a built-in safety feature that keeps them using it for the things they desire.
to clarify, i said we can't manipulate the LOA, not that we can't manipulate how we *use* the LOA. i can't manipulate gravity, but i can manipulate whether i drop a coconut on your head or not. saying "oh that gravity is powerful stuff, so if you put it in the hands of the wrong people, it would make them too powerful!" would sound silly, wouldn't it?
and absolutely, we have seen people who manifest, what we would call evil, using all the automatic processes of creation, whether they are aware of it or not. abraham talks about hitler as someone who is a great example of how belief and desire can manifest if you desire it powerfully enough. it's not right or wrong, good or evil, it's just someone manifesting what they want to see in the world... and it happened because there wasn't enough manifesting on the other side of the coin going on at the same time.
that's why for me, the spiritual surge right now, with people like those here in this tribe who are loving, aware and responsible, is so important in how our planet's future will play out.
marley, have you read the teachings of abraham-hicks?.... they teach many of the next steps of the LOA . those teachings are so essential, and for me personally, resonate much more clearly than any other teachings i've ever come across. nothing to wade through, no parables to grasp, and there are no spiritual masters doling out to students they control.
this sort of reminds me of back in my super-fit days at the gym, and someone would come in and tell the trainer, i don't want to get bulky, i just want to tone, and the trainer would laugh... because there really is no chance that someone will come in and begin to learn about body-building and accidentally become ripped. it just isn't that quick and easy, and in the process of doing the work, you automatically raise your consciousness about what you're doing and why you're doing it.
adding to your car analogy -- to me, it's more learning that you've been driving that car all along, sort of banging into things, and then finding out how the steering wheel works. what a big aha that would be, no! suddenly, you can go where you want to go. the car doesn't care if you go north or south, it will do what you say... only now that you know how it steers, you are able to control its direction. might you run people over with it intentionally? well, sure. but if you were driving without steering in the past, it's a far sight better than just taking your chances.
i only have a minute right now, but look forward to hearing more people's thoughts about this. it's a very interesting topic! -
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Re: The Darkside of "The Secret"?
Sun, April 13, 2008 - 5:04 PMLeslie, I love your responses in this thread, and agree with your perspective very much.
I want to add something...the idea of critical mass in the LOA.
Critical mass is an idea from physics...the physics of making atomic weapons. Critical mass is the smallest amount of a fissile (nuclear reactive) material needed to sustain a chain reaction.
So...where am I going with this is to say that it seems to me that humanity may be approaching a kind of critical mass of spirituality, wherein a sustained chain reaction takes place, and that the revealing of past "secrets" seems like an integral part of achieving that critical mass. Just like the nuclear reaction, once the chain reaction begins, it passes through the entire material until the material is "used up" by the reaction...unless stopped by human intervention.
Mostly, what people REALLY want seems pretty aligned from one person to the next. Love. Peace. Security (as in having one's regular needs met - food, water, clothing, housing, sex). etc....
What if enough people start powerfully intending that vision for themselves and everyone around them? What if those minds and intentions form a critical mass, and a sustained reaction rips through human society.
I'm an optimist. While some humans may be dirty scumbags, I think most want the same things, and that those things seem to be powerful and wonderful things, not dark and destructive things. I have faith that, no matter how difficult the passage ahead for humanity, that ultimately the sustained reaction of positive awakening among our species will transform our present reality into something more akin to utopian visions than dystopian visions. -
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Re: The Darkside of "The Secret"?
Sun, April 13, 2008 - 5:11 PM*Critical mass is an idea from physics...the physics of making atomic weapons. Critical mass is the smallest amount of a fissile (nuclear reactive) material needed to sustain a chain reaction. *
Also known as The Hundredth Monkey Effect. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundredth_Monkey
I also look forward (I mean that literally, too) to critical mass of LoA.
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Re: The Darkside of "The Secret"?
Sun, April 6, 2008 - 12:11 AMLeslie, I like how you say the car doesn't care how we drive it. How true, and I see how that makes a great analogy for the Universe. It's interesting to see that the Universe seems to simply be a medium of sorts that is affected by Cause & Effect. I often hear of people speak of the Universe as having intelligence, intention, etc., but more and more I really see it as a medium for the Art of Creation/Manifestation. A canvas of sorts.
And looking through history, language, and religion, it's clear that words and physical things only possess the values and meanings we endow them with. So it begs one to really think about what's really real, what's really valuable, and what infinite potential one possesses. -
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Re: The Darkside of "The Secret"?
Sun, April 6, 2008 - 3:53 PMone of the things i really like best about the abraham teachings is the explanations that this physical expression of reality is like the ultimate experiment... it is the ongoing constantly-changing-depending-on-who-manifests-what physical representation of thought and intention. the physical world is indeed the painting, the ongoing art project, of the non-physical world.
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Re: The Darkside of "The Secret"?
Thu, April 10, 2008 - 9:40 PMI think one of the other built in safety featurs is also that we all create our reality, but we are also adding to the conscious energies of the masses. so... we can begin to attrack things to us, but we are also resonating with and/or combating the energies all around us. The more you believe it works, the more it wokrs, but there also is that balance out there,
so for instance - ive concetrated so much on peace, you'd think that it would already be manifested right? the secret said that it does not matter how big the wish - but I think that I am also combating the negative energies out there, the greed, materialism, etc that is also prevalant in the world... am I wrong? let me know what you all think to this too, im still a new student to this reign of thought.
another thought, "moderation in everything" all in all, even if it doesnt really always work, but people were all thinking more positively (not neccassarily more greedily) than that in itself is a great outcome! longer lives, healthier psychies, etc. but I really do think that it helps, and am very excited there is this emerging awareness that we can change things for the better - in the world. It helps turn some of those pesimits into optimists, and thus adding their energies to the posistive and peaceful energies..
so, still learning, thanks for hearing me out! love this tribe! -
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Re: The Darkside of "The Secret"?
Fri, April 11, 2008 - 9:25 AMWhen one changes their beliefs or knowing they will experience the effect in physical reality to support that change. Physical reality will reflect their truth to them. However, it seems there is a part of the change process which involves going through a period of maintaining the new perspective even in the face of an unchanging physical reality... A kind of self test to confirm that you really have changed.
As far as the relationship between one individual's beliefs and another's.... The more people who share the same belief, the more it becomes visible in reality as being true. In an infinite reality there is ample space and potential for every single person to have an entirely unique set of beliefs and for their reality to reflect them. On Earth we have agreed to share a wide number of beliefs to support our collective experience and so one would need to decouple themselves from society completely to create a reality that the majority do not believe the present reality to be.
Soo.. As I see it.. We can either deliberately disconnect from our collective experience or actively seed the ideas of peace within society such that it spreads and grows at an ever greater pace..
No avatar to walk the Earth ever had the internet... ;)
(Although technology isnt needed, of course).
peacefully,
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nick
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Re: The Darkside of "The Secret"?
Sat, April 12, 2008 - 3:09 PM"It helps turn some of those pesimits into optimists, and thus adding their energies to the posistive and peaceful energies.. "
im one of those...
thanks to many things inside and outside of me...
but i like to single out this movie and thank the universe for it's existance and the processes it introduced me to...
and how it's affecting (often wordlesly, just by walking my talk) those around me...
love
kaalii -
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Re: The Darkside of "The Secret"?
Mon, April 14, 2008 - 10:42 AMyes, exacty you two! I truely believe that we are infectious, and we are always helping in this way! All is takes is a smile at someone to chage their whole day sometimes, and then they are adding that positive energy too :)
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Re: The Darkside of "The Secret"?
Sun, April 13, 2008 - 1:24 PMWhat a great thread, and Tribe! First of all, thank you Marley for beginning this discussion--very valid question.
IMHO, the Law of Attraction is tied to another belief system--that of The Unity of Consciousness. I feel that in order to truly affect change using the LoA (intentionally), one must also understand Unity. When someone understands Unity Consciousness, IMO they are very unlikely to hold on to base desires.
This is, perhaps, one safety feature.
I have only seen The Secret once, and my first impression was that it was presented for a materialistic-minded audience--which is, perhaps appropriate. If your intention is to plant the seeds of a different belief in a person or populace, you begin by framing it in the terms that your audience finds easy to digest. Look to the Christianity of Imperial Rome, when local gods and rites were merely renamed as Christian entities and observances. Over time they become the norm, and deeper aspects of the system are adopted, as the seed once planted takes root.
This new spirituality has an inherent positivity. It states that everything is connected--which Western thought has rejected, until fairly recent developments in sub-atomic physics. The flow of history can be seen as a flow towards freedom. As humanity delves deeper into the mysteries of the material universe, our society changes to reflect new understandings. I highly doubt democracy could have arisen without the scientific revolution--which began with Copernicus stating that the Earth was not the center of the Universe. This statement, by extension, displaced humanity and the God of the Catholic Church, as well. This rearrangement allowed for a new freedom to arise, for suddenly the frame of understanding, the paradigm, had changed. Once the earth was no longer central, how long before king and Pope would follow?
We are currently experiencing another paradigm shift--The new physics--a new understanding of unity as exemplified by a hologram, for example. (See twm.co.nz/hologram.html for a more detailed discussion) There are other examples of this Unity Consciousness arising out of new scientific study, but The Holographic Universe by Michael Talbot was my introduction.
It is an interesting time we are living in, for certain. -
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Re: The Darkside of "The Secret"?
Mon, April 14, 2008 - 10:44 AMawesome post, this is awesome, im going to post on "positive thinking" for people to come check this one out!
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Re: The Darkside of "The Secret"?
Mon, April 14, 2008 - 7:33 PMreally great link, and post... and very good points.when i have more time, i'll go back and re-read the link about the holographic universe, it makes such sense... then i'll hopefully have something a little more articulate to say about it ;^)
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Re: The Darkside of "The Secret"?
Thu, April 17, 2008 - 3:46 PMHi Marley, as moderator I'll just add this, yes there has been at least one other thread on this very topic. and it centered around the fact that Ester and Jerry Hicks felt exactly the way that you do. I happened to see the first version of the Secret that included them in it. However they had similar feelings to you and made the business decision to back out of being a part of the whole Secret marketing strategy, so the current version of that movie does not include them. Since that decision was made, I chose to not read the secret, and just concentrate just on the material that resonates with me. I've been 'green' and to the left of most politics for a very long time and welcome your pointing this out.
