I'm SO ready...

topic posted Thu, July 14, 2005 - 12:56 PM by  Wicked One
...to unload here. Can I go first? I didn't want to be anything like my parents, so stuck in the 50s. I swear they don't even recognize music past Elvis. Mom dropped out of college to get married and never worked. Dad worked long hours, was waited on hand and foot at home, and was abusive. I got through college, worked ever since, but I stayed away from relationships almost completely.

After getting knocked on my a** and unemployed for a year, I suddenly changed my tune and moved in with a guy I only just met. I'm working now, and I make more than he does. I pay more rent. Is that kosher? We went by percentages - totalled our income, whatever percentage of the total income I make, I pay in rent. Am I a chump or is this fair? It seems ok. He pays for dinners out, like dating. But then I find I really resent it when I end up doing more than half of the housework and cooking. I can't stand it when I see him just sitting there drinking beer when I'm doing laundry, cleaning the toilet and planning what to cook for dinner. I actually find myself saying (or thinking) things like my father used to: "I work all day, dammit, I want my dinner on the table when I get home". To be fair, he does most of the dishes. We don't have a dishwasher. Maybe appliances are the answer; I don't know. I find myself frustrated by a great lack of knowledge of cooking and such on his part. Can I send him to housewife school? He doesn't even know to wash lettuce before serving it. Can he at least learn to cook bacon properly? Seriously, we had an argument over how to cook bacon. Should we write up and divvy up all the chores?

And then to top it all off, we moved to an out-of-the-way place, so I am now dependent upon him for a ride to and from BART every day, and it cramps my style. In that way, I feel like a kept woman, and I resent it, but in doing more than 50% of the house stuff, I feel like the appointed "Mom", and I that. It's exhausting.

But even more bizarre, I realize I'm pushing myself in the housewifey aspect. Living alone, I wouldn't care if I ate cheerios and an orange for dinner and didn't do the dishes until the weekend, my living room might have clothes strewn about until I felt like doing laundry , and the cat might be eating out of take-out containers from the Chinese restaurant visited a week ago. Living with someone, I feel like I must aspire to higher standards, have real dinners off real dishes, etc.
  • Amen regarding feeling the need to raise to a higher level. I guess when I feel that though - I look inward and think about whether or not that suits me. And then I reach for the cheerios (or frosted mini-wheats in my case) and dinner is served (at least for me). As a non-cooker - I don't mind if my husband cooks (which he does), but get resentful when it is time for me to clean up all the dishes from the day.

    I often internally question whether or not men do these things as a result of learned behaviour (their parents were that way), out of sheer and knowledgeable laziness or just that they dont think. I guess in my life, I have decided that it is the latter.

    As for feeling like a kept woman - I would do whatever I was able to in order to maintain my sense of self-reliance. I was in the same situation once, and hated it.
    • Thanks Sarah - he actually advised me it was his parents - they either didn't serve salad or didn't wash it. I'd like to imagine that he just didn't notice his mother washing the salad, but there's no way to know. I wouldn LOVE it if he cooked, but he clearly is not good at it. Whichis my fault I suppose for leaping into a live-in relationship - he SAID he was a good cook, but my experience has differed. :-p I know that I need to lossen up a bit so I can enjoy myself and my new living arrangement. And I think somehow that getting my own ride to BART or to work is part of it, too.
      • I've dated some men who didn't cook or clean up and it was a bit of a deal-breaker. LIke, one time I made dinner for a date and he didn't even make a move to help clean up afterwards! And this was someone who read feminist literature and was relatively enlightened in his thinking, but just didn't know how to apply it to this part of real life.

        All I knew was, I'd worked all day and then made a special dinner for us and I didn't feel like cleaning up. I asked him to help, and then I walked out of the kitchen to let him do it on his own.

        Sometimes I blame mothers who never let their sons get near the kitchen. Other men whose mothers just didn't cook or were horrible cooks grow up with no knowledge of it. And to their credit, I think there are men out there who make an attempt to educate themselves. But in this day & age, for men not to lift a finger to help is somewhat insulting.

        So catherine..you're not alone. I've heard that living in the suburbs changes everything too. sometimes it's easy to count beans when you're trying to figure out who does what housework. I remember with my ex, I did all the cooking, but he did piles and piles of dishes. In hindsight, that was a blessing, because I hate doing dishes. But the rest of the housework was a bit of a struggle and I found myself tallying up who'd done what constantly.

        On another note, my boss does everything for her son: cooking, laundry, making his bed, shopping etc. He's 15. I think to myself: someday, some woman is not going to thank you for this, assuming he winds up being straight.
        • Isn't there a Class or a Camp (Considerate Camp, Kitchen Camp) or something we can send the men to? My last boyfriend didn't do laundry. He had it done by a service, and resented my spending time on my own laundry. But I know I can do it better than a stranger. I recall in college that the guys would regularly break their washers by stuffing everything they owned into one load, and then they'd have to come over to the girls' dorm and beg for help. Clearly there is a breakdown in guys being taught normal, useful, household skills. It's almost as bad as the Carl's Jr commercials, "Without us, some guys would starve". But it shouldn't be this way.
  • Hey women,

    I strongly recommend this book:

    Here Comes the Bride: Women, Weddings, and the Marriage Mystique
    by Jaclyn Geller

    She's pretty angry through a lot of the book, and inserts her subjective experiences a lot, which you may or may not care for, but it remains that she makes excellent points and also places marriage in a more historical context than a lot of her contemporary fellow feminists. Although her style put off a few of my friends, I got a great deal out of this book. It's a page-turner.
    • OK, I'm feeling the need to defend the Y chromozone here...
      Some of us do cook. When I was growing up, it was my Dad who did all the cooking, while my Mom watched sports on TV. I'm currently at the end of a live-in relationship in which I had to wash the dishes from the last dinner I'd cooked in order to cook the next dinner.
      Please, it's not Men and Women, it's all individuals.
      • I have certainly known some men that cook. I agree to some extent that "it's all individuals", but there are still different societal expectations of the sexes, which seem to leave women in the housewifey roles and men ... not doing much there. I'd love to hear about what you can cook. And without even looking at your pic, I'm thinking you are sooo sexy doing those dishes, baby.
        • then you should see me vacuum...

          As for my cooking, I make a mean lasagna, a spinach and rice casarole that has made straight men propose marriage and love to bake; bread making is especially satisfying.

          I'm willing to defer to your experience on the social norms of gender roles in housekeeping. It just sounds strange to me because I've never seen it. But then I've never dated men, so how would I know?

          Perhaps a reward system for doing housework could inspire a guy. Or a more Skinnerian shock therapy approach- hit him with a cattle prod when the dishes pile up. And let's not forget Aristophanes' play Lysistrata in which the women of Athens withhold sex until the men end a foreign war. True, it's a passive agressive method, and it's no fun for anyone, but it does send a strong message.
          • Ahhh we are all coming over to your house for dinner.

            In fairness to men - yes, there are men who cook, clean, etc. My husband does both, and I love him even more for it. Sometimes, however, I do feel like men in my life have expected more from me domestically as a result of being a woman (not really my husband, but past boyfriends etc.) Example: I don't really cook - not that I can't, but that I get nervous about cooking for others, so I generally just do it for myself. And i have sometimes felt like it has been frowned upon.

            However, I do agree that it is an individualist matter - rather than male v. female because I know some women that are WORSE than men.
          • Yeah, the passive-agressive thing is just too much like my mom, although it certainly does occur to me sometimes.

            Ah, Lysistrata. They did a little bit more than withold sex- they also occupied the treasury, so no more money could be spent on weapons. Kind cool. But seriously, the witholding of sex is just as hard on a woman as it is on a man. I don't want to be doubly frustrated.
  • That is what sucks about relationships in general is compromise.

    But if we do not make those compromises (on both ends) usually the relationship can't last.

    Also the whole housework/cooking thing is still a relatively new idea for relationships. I think many men just don't do it or know how because it was not a concern or placed high on the list of things boys should learn about before they leave the nest. So, now, women have to teach them little by little, from one relationship up to the time they marry. It seems gruelling for the women. And of course this is because we work too and dont have the whole day to just do housework and take care of babies now.


    I am not sure how to deal with it. When I finally got mad at my ex. I went on strike and stopped doing dishes for a long time. That made him irate and he took over dishes after that. But it didn't mend our other problems. I mean, I am not positive my way wasn't a bit "too" much.

    Who knows. But talkikng about it should be the first move. After that maybe divvying up chores. Explaining you work more and maybe finding a compromise. Maybe he can hire a cleaner once a month and cut a dinner here and there. Something like that.

    Good luck.

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