fear of being alone and/or rejected

topic posted Sun, October 25, 2009 - 3:36 PM by 
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I sense a constant connection among these threads, to wit: The fear of being alone, coupled with the fear of rejection. That, of course, sets up a classic approach/avoidance conflict. I wonder if limerance is, for many of us, a way to avoid facing ourselves? It is often said that if we cannot love ourselves, we cannot truly love another, and it seems that many people on here (and, until recently, I was one of them) are afraid to be alone, but can't fully commit to a relationship, either. So they mentally create a relationship with the LO. That solves the alone portion of the equation, and reduces the fear to one of rejection. If the relationship fails, or does not progress to one of mutual caring and understanding (and, yes, possibly love), the blame for that failure can be direced toward the LO, rather than inwardly. The rejection becomes the LO's fault, not our own for selecting the unreachable. We remain safe, because we have not made ourselves vulnerable to the core. We have not told the LO that the real attraction is not one of running toward that person, but rather one of running away from ourselves.

Thoughts/reactions anyone?
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  • Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

    Sun, October 25, 2009 - 5:29 PM
    Running away from myself...that's probably very true. I am so drawn to emotional pain, I want to fix it - I think because I can't fix mine. I would rather ignore this, because it's really depressing...but I know I have to stop and deal with it sometime. I'm trying to find ways to manage *me* and not get someone else to fill that holes. Especially because idolizing someone does no one a favor, including them. What's respectful to everyone is what's healthy, is seeing people as real, flawed, wonderful individuals who can't cure me...and I wish I'd understood that a long time ago, because then I wouldn't have hurt anyone else.
  • Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

    Sun, October 25, 2009 - 6:22 PM
    I think you make a good obsevation here. Speaking for myself, I have no desire to be in a relationship and can probably be considered emotionally unavailable. Yet I have an LO, that I want and don't want. So yeah, I can blame her for the rejection, even though I did my share to sabotoge having a real relationship too. I will say that, I don't think my fear was a fear of rejection, because I take chances, put myself out there. My fear, may have been fear of reciprocation. If that were to happen, well hell, then I'd have to commit myself to something real, when I don't really have room for it.
    I think that saying about 'loving' yourself first should be 'respecting' yourself . That word love, has been tossed around and over used so much. We have to know ourselves and feel secure with who we are, maybe that is loving ourselves, having self respect.
    • Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

      Sun, October 25, 2009 - 11:10 PM
      I'm gonna answer specific people here, because I am closely acquainted with some people on this discussion board - but really - everyone should read it, lest they misunderstand me Also, I should say at this juncture, I do not know why, but in the past six months or so, I have both figured out the reasons for my own limerance, (and limerant tendencies) and have also figured out - that is, gained as some would say, "profound knowledge" of what my fears are. Having found those fears, I have been able to address them, and put them behind me. So, in some ways, I don't belong here. I am no longer a card-carrying member of the Limerant Community. But, like the person who has overcomne an addiction, I have to admit I can still be lured back under the limerant spell. " Hi, everybody. My name is David/Lizzie, and I am a Limerant."



      Aleph - Don't be so negative. Not everything everyone says is supposed to be a personal assault. But perhaps a little introspection might not hurt. Have you been running away, or using your own limerance as a way to avoid asking yourself the hard questions? If not, (long pause here) then good for you; you are on what I suspect is the right track for personal mental health happiness. But if you have been running away, then you have to ask yourself why, and to what end, and wouldn't it be better to stop fighting imaginary dragons, and face the personal searching head on? (You will note I didn't say running away from what - that is because it really does not matter, and because, if you can answer why, the what will become self-evident.)


      Andrew - I think real love and respect go hand in fisk, as Popeye might have said. Love without respect, it seems to me, leads to some sort of self-absorbed infatuation - possibly a kind of limerance - Are there sub-folders within the folder labeled "Limerance" ? - probably - --------------------a-a-anyway, that's a whole 'nother discussion. ------ So, yes, I think I agree with you on a couplela points - first, "Love" is so ill-defined. The word encompasses so many feelings - we love our siblings, and our parents, and our more distant relatives - but we don't - unless we are strangely twisted, -- normally want to love them the same way we want to be with our LO - and we love friends - but here, again, not like with the LO. So maybe love isn't the right word ----Isn't it interesting? The English language has a larger vocabulary than any other, yet we still use the same word for all kinds of different love ........But back to the original discussion: Do we respect our LO? That might be heading toward the crux of the matter. Our thoughts about our LO are centered around how we WANT (or think we want) the LO to feel towards us. But that really doesn't leave room for what the LO wants, does it? So where is the respect in that? Hmmmm ...Interesting questions. And, I suspect, the answers are fraught with growing pains.
      • RD
        RD
        offline 16

        Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

        Mon, October 26, 2009 - 5:00 AM
        Yes yes yes :)

        I've been saying that this is true for me for some time now. I posted a photo called What Running Can Do that illustrates exactly what happened with me. I was fearful - not so much of rejection or being alone - but fearful of my life, of untying the knots and I wanted an "Easy Button" instead of doing the scary self-work.

        I genuinely liked and respected the man who became my LO first and met him just as I was in a massive life crunch. He as my LO was my escape hatch. I wanted him to say to me, "Leave your life behind, just drop it, and come live with me and we'll have a fresh start..." Well, that didn't happen :) It couldn't happen anyway bcs there are no true fresh starts in life because everywhere you go, there you are :) I can't leave me behind and limerence is all about me.


        • Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

          Mon, October 26, 2009 - 8:54 AM
          I think, when you say, " ... and limerance is all about me." you are, as the English might say, spot on. There is so much self-absorbtion in limerance, that it becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy. If we are so wrapped up oin ourselves, how can we possibly truly love someone else?
          • Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

            Mon, October 26, 2009 - 11:43 AM
            David, you wrote that love isn't the right word. I agree, common perception is too wide. I think most people in this tribe are talking about romantic love specifically . If we can agree that's the kind of love, that should take care of the discussion about what we are talking about. I think obsessive love and addictive love belong with romantic love, kind of a subset.

            Anyone?
            • Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

              Mon, October 26, 2009 - 1:47 PM
              Anne, I believe we were talking about the word 'love' as it is used in the phase "learn to love yourself"
              • Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

                Mon, October 26, 2009 - 2:10 PM
                Ah, self love you're talking about. Sorry, so much to read, I missed that. So in this thread you're talking about love as in care for yourself, like yourself, the opposite of hate. Got it.

                So you say if one can love yourself enough, you won't fear losing the attachment and it won't feel like rejection when your LO says they aren't interested?
  • Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

    Mon, October 26, 2009 - 12:14 PM
    Hi David/Lizzie,

    Brilliant post. Like yourself, I am an ex-limerent interloper of sorts here, read every once in awhile and respond when I feel a resonance with someone's post. Having experienced limerence once was enough to last me a lifetime! I think I branch off from many on this tribe in that I do not see love and limerence as interchangeable at all. I have fallen in love several times - with all the joyous, expansive, life-affirming, freeing "stuff" and none of the obsessive longing, worrisome, and constrictive "stuff" that characterized my mutual limerence of over a year ago. Here's my take: I see limerence as a sort of short-circuited "love" gone awry - it is focused inward on fantasy and not intimacy and in diving into fantasy to the exclusion of reality one annihilates the reality of the other person and cuts himself/herself off from intimacy with themselves as well. I actually see limerence as a sort of violence to self and other. It is escapism at its best or worst, depending on your perspective. Again, just my experience... I fell limerent at a time of radical change in my life and this man appeared in a waiting room of all places. It was immediate and magnetic for both of us - we obviously filled a need for each other at the time. It was powerful stuff, but it wasn't real. I chose not to go on the ride. My ex-LO is a fine man and I never "hated" him or disliked him or blamed him (as many here seem to love and hate their LOs) so I can't really speak about that.

    So, although an ex-limerent now, my experience of limerence brought me to a new place where I started to willingly pull the threads from my life tapestry, each pulled thread revealing another to be pulled (sort of like RD untying her knots, I'd say) until I've come to see myself not so much as a fuzzed out mess, but as an exciting potential fuzz ball to make something new and much more "me" with this new-found, unformed fuzz. Ha, it made me smile to write that! :) So, for me, present moment awareness is key - in this place there is joy and solace and that existential loneliness just evaporates. Of course, I don't always stay in this place...but there is always the next moment to try again.

    Be well,
    Sofia

    PS - Do friends call you Dizzie - seems a natural nickname to me... :)
    • Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

      Mon, October 26, 2009 - 12:56 PM
      I refuse to believe David/Lizzie is an EX-limerent. ;-)
      • Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

        Mon, October 26, 2009 - 8:55 PM
        I am not an EX - limerant. I believe limerance, (or at least, limerant tendencies) is like drug addiction or alchoholism, or nicotine addiction. You are never "cured", you are merely in remission, and must take each day as it comes. I believe I said that (or strongly alluded to it) in one of my earlier posts, when I ended a paragraph with the words, "Hi. I'm David/lizzie, and I am a Limerant."
    • Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

      Mon, October 26, 2009 - 1:19 PM
      Sophia, you wrote that you do not see love and limerence as interchangeable at all.

      It's true, they are not anymore. Limerence was coined to describe the concepts of falling in love and being in love in order to describe the process of loving someone romantically. But it appears that Tribe members have expanded the definition to include emotions gone awry during that process. I suspect that happened because Tennov's book uses complex vernacular, having been written for fellow researchers in the study of love, which has led to confusion among us regular people.

      Just my 2 cents.
      • Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

        Mon, October 26, 2009 - 2:42 PM
        Anne wrote:

        But it appears that Tribe members have expanded the definition to include emotions gone awry during that process. I suspect that happened because Tennov's book uses complex vernacular, having been written for fellow researchers in the study of love, which has led to confusion among us regular people.

        Well, I've never read Tennov's book so I can't be certain, but I never felt I needed to read it to validate my own experience of limerence. I have a different theory re the evolution of the definition: I imagine that the Tribe members have expanded the definition because they are mired in years and years of painful limerent experience in a way that Tennnov, as a researcher with distance, most likely never was (again, could be wrong, never read her...I suppose Dot could have been hopelessly limerent herself - anyone know???) Based on what I've learned here, I'm also willing to bet that most of the brains on this site could handle the complex vernacular you mention. I imagine the interpretation of the definition is not dependent on our grasp of the vernacular so much, but in our individual and collective subjective experience that trumps anything we could ever read in a book. I don't know, I just trust my own inner wisdom on this. That's my two cents. :)

        Sofia
        • Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

          Mon, October 26, 2009 - 3:17 PM
          Sophia or any other brainy Tribe member,
          This is a sample of what Dorothy Tennov wrote, and I admit I don't understand what it means. Could you translate this for me, please:

          "No matter how intensely reciprocation is desired it cannot simply be requested. To ask is to risk premature self-disclosure. The interplay is delicate, with the reactions of each person inextricably bound to the behavior of the other - or at least so in the mind of the Limerant."

          Thanks,
          Anne
          • Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

            Mon, October 26, 2009 - 3:43 PM
            Well, not claiming to be a brainy tribe member here, but I think I can figure this one out. Basicly, If you put it out there, then the game could be over and we limerents want to keep the ball in play. For the second part of the quote: Limerent reactions ARE bound by the behavior of there LO; in turn, the L's think too, that LO's reactions are bound by L's behavior, when this is most likely not the case.

            Anne, are you on a mission?
            • Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

              Mon, October 26, 2009 - 4:33 PM
              Andrew, you ask if I'm on a mission. Aren't we all? I would like to be able to explain this to a non-limerent. She still doesn't understand, and she's not stupid. It's very frustrating for both of us. Thanks for the attempt.


              • Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

                Mon, October 26, 2009 - 5:40 PM
                LOL, good luck trying to explain limerence to a non-limerent! :D You're not the only one to try. I've been at it for some time and still don't think any non-limerent I've told really gets it. It's not for lack of trying, it's just hard to understand limerence without experiencing it. It's like trying to understand how someone becomes an addict or what it's like to have OCD. You simply can't quite get your head around what that's like/how it feels; the best you can do is listen to someone else in that situation. I figure the more I talk about limerence, the more they might be able to get a general sense of it and understand it. But it's still hard...you can tell when they don't get it.

                What is it that she doesn't understand?
              • Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

                Mon, October 26, 2009 - 6:25 PM
                Anne, Many of us are on a mission, but not all of us are on a MISSION. I'm sure there are members here who would love to help you with an explaination for your friend. Is this person your LO? Have you tried explaining this to her without success? What is it that is frustrating, that she and you are not grasping or communicating?
                The quote you posted by Tennov was pretty clear. What are you having trouble understanding? Sometimes, if you try to take an educated statement and translate it into another educated statement, you can confuse yourself. Try taking out all the BS, see it for what it is.
                • Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

                  Mon, October 26, 2009 - 8:16 PM
                  She says to her it sounds like limerence is just the pity party you have after falling in love with someone you shouldn't or didn't want to fall in love with.

                  I've tried to tell her there's more to it than that. Is that right?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

                    Mon, October 26, 2009 - 8:57 PM
                    Anne said : I've tried to tell her there's more to it than that. Is that right?

                    Anne, Based on your own experience, research and participation on this tribe, do you believe this is right?
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

            Tue, October 27, 2009 - 12:13 PM
            This book and all the other resources I found here are on the to-read list, but I agree with the thought that most people here are bringing their collective subjective experience to bear on the question. My experience was far from pity but more an obsessive fascination about a possibility. I knew it was obsessive and I wanted it to be over, but I also knew disclosure would risk the embarrassment of a crash and burn. It does appear as if the limerent feel sorry for themselves but I think the falling in love notion minimizes the intensity and obsession they feel. It is much more intense. Some people here equate it to what drives a stalker, which is a little frightening!

            Patti
    • Re: fear of being alone and/or rejected

      Wed, October 28, 2009 - 6:49 AM
      Hi Sofia,

      I am so curious about your process and how you worked through your mutual limerence. Did your LO remain limerent for you? I would imagine so if you resisted.

      I am also wondering what about it felt "not real" to you as you stated: "It was immediate and magnetic for both of us - we obviously filled a need for each other at the time. It was powerful stuff, but it wasn't real."

      Especially if it is mutual it's hard for me to see that it hasn't been 'real' despite not forging into a complete intimacy. Even if there is fantasy involved, isn't that how all love starts out? It sounds like you had an amazing connection and I'm curious how/why you didn't decide to go there and find out more, especially if your LO made himself available.

      Thanks-still working through my own (at one point reciprocated) limerence. Curious for me, mine started out with the joyous, expansive, heart opening stuff-which I didn't call limerence at the time- when it went awry was after confirmation of reciprocation fueled by obstacles, magnetic physical attraction that couldn't be consummated, doubt, worry, obsessive thinking, filling in the blanks with fantasy. Still with all of that I am not yet able to conclude for myself it was in fact not real (love or at least falling in love).

      Sela

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