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I've been reflecting back on my limerent experience (as I see it so far) and see a shape to it. I like patterns, shapes and categories, so I wrote it out. This doesn't accomplish anything, but I thought you all may be interested in seeing what it looks like to me.
The Shape of Limerence, early middle and late: \_/
Early phase: is the \
Falling in love/limerence.
You maybe unaware of what is happening to you.
Enjoying the pleasure and the rush.
Fantasies start and take hold.
Slipping further and further into it.
Lots of good hormone rushes but even the pain feels good.
Giddiness
Very hopeful time.
Planning how to see him, what to say, what to wear… slowly becomes an obsession.
The questions we ask during this phase are: Is this love? Who is this magical Other person? Does he love
me? How can I make him see me, love me, want me? Is he my soulmate? Doesn't this feel amazing! I'm alive!
Middle: the __
This is the rock bottom.
The feelings in this phase range from : "OUCH!! But LO is sooo cute and perfect...", to "This doesn't feel so good anymore." to "This sucks!! It's eating away my life/marriage/brain!"
The fantasies have completely consumed life, absorbing time, energy and interest. They are involunatary.
The obsession confounds you and you may even be embarrassed by it, but you sit in it anyway.
The pain and the pleasure are equal.
Confusion abounds.
Anger directed at LO.
Lots and lots of crying from heartache.
Battle between hope and despair.
The questions we ask during this phase are: Why can’t he see he’s my soulmate? If he's so amazing why doesn't he want me? He really doesn't want me? Why does he play games with me? Why does LO do XXX? How did I get here? What has happened to me? But I thought he liked me? Can I (do I want to) live without LO?
Late phase: the /
The climb out and why it’s All About Me
During this later phase the feelings range from: "GET ME OUT OF THIS HELL!" to "Realization that LO is human and everything beyond that is my fantasy projection", to "This still aches but I know I am doing it to myself and here are the important things I've learned/am learning about myself... "
The pain overrides all pleasure.
The fantasies even hurt. Struggle or quest to stop them begins.
The obsession is now frustrating, not enjoyable.
Anger directed mostly at self.
You curse your limerent hope and wish it would die.
This is self discovery time.
You face the painful stark truth.
Lots and lots of crying from growing pains and from hope dying.
Grieving loss – loss of old self, loss of LO, loss of time/energy “wasted”, loss of old values/morals/ethics
Decision time.
Healing and accepting time.
The questions we ask are: How can I stop the pain??? Why did this happen? What triggered this? What led up to this? Why that person? How do I get my life back? Do I want my old life back? Who am I now? What need was this fulfilling in my life? How can I meet this need in a healthier less dramatic (traumatic) way?
The Shape of Limerence, early middle and late: \_/
Early phase: is the \
Falling in love/limerence.
You maybe unaware of what is happening to you.
Enjoying the pleasure and the rush.
Fantasies start and take hold.
Slipping further and further into it.
Lots of good hormone rushes but even the pain feels good.
Giddiness
Very hopeful time.
Planning how to see him, what to say, what to wear… slowly becomes an obsession.
The questions we ask during this phase are: Is this love? Who is this magical Other person? Does he love
me? How can I make him see me, love me, want me? Is he my soulmate? Doesn't this feel amazing! I'm alive!
Middle: the __
This is the rock bottom.
The feelings in this phase range from : "OUCH!! But LO is sooo cute and perfect...", to "This doesn't feel so good anymore." to "This sucks!! It's eating away my life/marriage/brain!"
The fantasies have completely consumed life, absorbing time, energy and interest. They are involunatary.
The obsession confounds you and you may even be embarrassed by it, but you sit in it anyway.
The pain and the pleasure are equal.
Confusion abounds.
Anger directed at LO.
Lots and lots of crying from heartache.
Battle between hope and despair.
The questions we ask during this phase are: Why can’t he see he’s my soulmate? If he's so amazing why doesn't he want me? He really doesn't want me? Why does he play games with me? Why does LO do XXX? How did I get here? What has happened to me? But I thought he liked me? Can I (do I want to) live without LO?
Late phase: the /
The climb out and why it’s All About Me
During this later phase the feelings range from: "GET ME OUT OF THIS HELL!" to "Realization that LO is human and everything beyond that is my fantasy projection", to "This still aches but I know I am doing it to myself and here are the important things I've learned/am learning about myself... "
The pain overrides all pleasure.
The fantasies even hurt. Struggle or quest to stop them begins.
The obsession is now frustrating, not enjoyable.
Anger directed mostly at self.
You curse your limerent hope and wish it would die.
This is self discovery time.
You face the painful stark truth.
Lots and lots of crying from growing pains and from hope dying.
Grieving loss – loss of old self, loss of LO, loss of time/energy “wasted”, loss of old values/morals/ethics
Decision time.
Healing and accepting time.
The questions we ask are: How can I stop the pain??? Why did this happen? What triggered this? What led up to this? Why that person? How do I get my life back? Do I want my old life back? Who am I now? What need was this fulfilling in my life? How can I meet this need in a healthier less dramatic (traumatic) way?
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Wed, October 28, 2009 - 8:05 AMThis is lovely. I read with interest. Its also quite noticeable that a number of us are pretty much recovering! I'd say I am about as recovered and about (?) as sane as I have been ever and it has taken me pretty much three years to get to here! And that's with lots of thanks to this forum.
How long did it take for you RD? I'm still not sure what triggered me so watching out for that again. xx -
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Wed, October 28, 2009 - 9:14 AMI met my LO just over 3 years ago, that is fall 2006, and limerence start slowly and immediately. Reciprocation, if you can call it that, started fall of 2007.
I hit the middle phase in May of 2008.
I think I crossed the line into the Late/recovery phase in late spring of this year after being in this tribe for a few months and getting the help and clarity from others. I admit to still occasionally tiptoeing back into the middle phase (I can't believe he did that to me!! cry, sniffle) but a little taste of pain is all I need and I get right back out :) Forward ho!
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Wed, October 28, 2009 - 8:11 AMCreative and revealing. I like how you gave us some of your actual thoughts as they appeared, and mixed them in with some objective analysis.
Muy bonito.
I think it does accomplish something! Understanding is a major tool for healing, redemption, learning, changing. All that human stuff -- we gotta do it.
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Wed, October 28, 2009 - 8:51 AMI'd like to add to the middle phase. I left out something important. Any way to add it to the list?
Isolation - fantasies, obsession, pain and confusion draw us deeper and deeper into ourselves and away from others, neglecting relationships.
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Wed, October 28, 2009 - 11:24 AMThis post is everything I've been feeling. I think it is a growing experience and hopefully I will come out of it stronger. They say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, well hopefully this will be true for me. I am still hurting from rejection and the truly not knowing if my lime really did want me or if it was just all a game to him. I do know how I got here and lucky for me, my husband and I are working things through. I pray that time is on my side and I can learn how to take steps to begin the healing process. Thanks RD for posting this. I feel that this site should be for positive reinforcement and not be a put down like another post I have read, again thank you for submitting this. -
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Wed, October 28, 2009 - 12:38 PMVery nice, RD. thank you!
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Wed, October 28, 2009 - 12:56 PMKitty wrote: I am still hurting from rejection and the truly not knowing if my lime really did want me or if it was just all a game to him.
I know it hurts. I have asked myself (4 billion times) those same questions.
Maybe asking yourself a new set of questions will help you:
What would change if you DID know for sure how your LO felt about you at the time?
What impact would it have on your life and how you feel about yourself if he did care... or if he didn't?
Right now, in this moment, does it matter if he was toying with you or not? Would it change your life and your decisions?
What has his rejection cost you?
If he didn't reject you where would you be right now?
Why does this particular rejection matter so much?
The pain will be there until it's not. :) Deep, huh? I cannot rationalize or explain away my pain. I've learned that allowing myself to sit in roundy roundy thoughts searching for answers I will never have and really don't need only makes me dizzy and crazy.
Did he care? Why does it matter when this was all about you. Was he intentionally toying around with you? Why does it matter when this was all about you.
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Wed, October 28, 2009 - 9:10 PMSo this is what I have to look forward to? I am in the early phase and could have written what you wrote word for word. Do I have to go to the next phase? He makes me feel so good, I feel alive for the very first time. He makes me feel like he is my one and only first love, actually he is, the others' don't count as they could never measure up to him in any way. Good post!
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Thu, October 29, 2009 - 12:34 PMHaha, very very nice post, RD. I laughed at a lot of parts. :)
Love the roundy-roundies! ;) It's so true what you said--you really do just get nowhere with them...and eventually it's like "What am I DOING here? This is possibly the dumbest and most unconstructive train of thoughts that has ever entered my head!" It gets to be too mentally draining to sustain the over-analyzing and (mercifully) one day you simply drop it. The dawn of a new era!
I still wonder sometimes if it was really all in my head. It'd just be satisfying to know either way. :D But maybe it's simply one of those mysteries, and I'll never find out.... -
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Thu, October 29, 2009 - 12:47 PMThe more I read the more I seem to think the sooner you can get over your LO the better you'll be dispite of what you think and feel now. So I have taken steps to try and distract me from thinking of my LO. Here's what I did and I will let you know if it is helping. I looked through old pictures of my husband and family and plastered them on the wall in front of my workstation, luckly I work from home so no one can complain about it. I have to admit that it does make me feel happy and appreciate what I have experienced with my family and even though my husband and I forgot how to love each other, which is why this happened in the first place, we did have many good times and we are very much in love now. So hopefully this will distract me from my feelings for my LO.
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 6:54 PMYour last sentence captures a great deal in a small space.
Since so much of limerence is projection, what happens is that when you see your LO, what you see is a fantasy creature wearing "an LO suit." (I am indebted to a line in Men in Black for that idea)
That's one reason, I suspect, that my LO was always annoyed with me. I wasn't interacting with her, but with the "her" I had created. Of course, that's not the whole story, but it emphasizes the power of our minds to create an object of wish-fulfillment out of a real human being and then fall in love with it.
And it's time for honest disclosure here--as I have said elsewhere, I'd marry my LO tomorrow if it were possible. So I'm still in the middle of my limerent journey. -
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 8:41 PMYes, and since so much of it was a fantasy projection (it was mutual limerence), I have anxiety on a daily basis that he will come back (he moved) and see me for who I really am, and see how I really look -- like just an ordinary 49-yr.-old lady (I mean I guess Sarah Palin was sexy and she was only a couple years younger than that and was like me with all these kids....) But no, the veil will be lifted and I will look as his fantasies thought I did.
I do feel sad sometimes that I had to turn it into limerence, when it started out as an honest relationship and it could have stayed that way. I know, we talk a lot on here about how limerence just happens and we are not responsibile, but I think I wanted this one and it wasn't 100% something that happened to me out of the blue. (I think my same-sex limerence 13 years ago DID just happen to me.)
People talk all the time about not letting a friendship turn into a romance (I hear young people talk like this a lot... I guess because they have so many more friends than marrieds-with-kids who don't have time for tons of friends). So there is (at least sometimes) some level of control as to whether it turns into a romance. (But a typical romance is not really the same as limerence... and now we'ere getting into the problematic definitions again! Arghhh..)
My LO could have stayed a family friend, and I could have been REAL friends with his wife, which would have truly tickled me to death because she lives in another country and was sweet. I guess simple things thrill me but it was really fun to text her in Spanish, in another country. It was cool! But I wrecked it.
I do believe God was and is working all through the situation, though. So did they (LO and his wife). They were poor, and they believed God was living and active. In that third world country, he could only earn $6 a day. From knowing them, I wanted someday to spend more time with the poor, for the one reason that I want to experience more of God. I have been so frustrated and bored in recent years with the little of God I can see in the life that I lead.
I believe it is all working out for the best, but I do feel sad that I lost an opportunity to (possibly) have made real friends (who would like me and respect me NOTbased on my looks or youth/lack of youth).
I want friends and connections that are genuine, now. I think I can give up seduction... I want something GOOD. Oh, it feels like a brand of "not having," but there is something in the restraint that feels almost as good as the unfulfilled yearning of limerence.
We will never have! We won't! Not on this earth! I'm speaking of intense, lasting intimacy with the deepest place in another. It's a dream... we can't have it yet, not here.
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 8:43 PMI meant to say: I will NOT look as his fantasies thought I did.
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 4:03 AMYep, the projection... it screwed me up. I was in awe of him and that wasn't fair to either of us and most likely sabatoged what shred of possibility there was for a real, even if temporary, relationship. And it set up me up to be treated poorly.
He called me "reserved" and he was right - I couldn't open up to him. I could hardly tell him anything - I couldn't afford the risk of disclosure of course, of exposing more than I wanted to, or falling harder for him. Even as he was telling me crazy personal things and asking me to tell him things... nada. He even told me that I can trust him! I was thinking, Trust you??? I trust you implicitly... do you not know that I've placed in your hands my heart, soul, mind, time, body, life?
LOL He probably thought I was only in it for the sex. LOL Hope he's flattered. -
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Tue, November 24, 2009 - 10:04 AMsame with me.
I couldn't / still can't - say a word about it, even when it was so obvious he was trying to make me to say something... All for fear of negative response.
And what's ironic - that is what bugs me most of the time, that I don't know anything certain. I'm not rejected nor really the opposite. And it's my fault. And as long as I'm ''inbetween'', and therefore I '' can't '' put a closure to it.... yet.
It's crazy to read these posts and be like.. ''WOW, that's me! '' Especially when things are described so precisely, down to the smallest detail.
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 5:10 PMRD, sometimes I wish there was a Best of Tribe feature that would allow me to showcase the work of our members, because each week I see several pieces of writing that capture the experience in interesting ways. This is one of them.
I think I've been innately aware of the shape you describe without ever articulating it. I'm reminded strongly right now of Joseph Campbell's monomyth, which he described in his book, "The Hero With A Thousand Faces". As a comparative mythologist, and building on Jung's theory of archetypes, Campbell described the universal hero's journey as being a personal narrative about accepting a call to unknown spiritual territory, undergoing a profound metamorphosis and then returning transformed with a gift for others.
So I principally think of this journey in terms of self-identity. Limerence is an unwitting call to engage with Life, but the forces involved are so overwhelming that they invert, evert and then scramble everything we thought we knew about ourselves. The journey back is all about the reformation of meaning i.e. creating a new narrative to contain our lives to date. It's the hero's journey, and the hero is us. -
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 1:28 PMHi meowbie - and thanks! I'm happy to contribute.
I'm beginning to wonder (watch all the limerents in the early stage gasp!) if my LO was just background "noise" - he was the excuse, the platform, for my limerence. If I hadn't met him, I would still have fallen limerent for someone else at that time. His kindness toward me triggered the feelings toward him... but someone else might have come along who also would have been nice.
Perhaps it really is ALL about me, my psyche calling me to life again, self defining, rebuilding . LO was nothing more than a tiny spark that lit the fire to start the transition (even though it doesn't feel that way). If this quest hadn't already started in me before I met him he probably would have meant nothing more to me than "a kind man". If not him, my psyche would have found someone else to use as a catalyst.
Maybe. I'm still limerent enough to think he's amazing. LOL
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 3:05 PMIt's an interesting thought, isn't it? It gets into the whole philosophical problem of fate. Before my main limerence, about 18 months earlier, there was another girl at work who captured my attention. It didn't catch fire (i.e. it didn't reach what Stendhal referred to as second crystallisation) but it still left me bewildered. Toward the end of it, I discovered the word: limerence. It was a premonition of what was to come.
No matter how I look at it, I was ready for something. I was pre-disposed to limerence. I must have been like a casting director, subconsciously waiting for my leading lady. So it's weird looking back now ... my LO wasn't my first choice, and yet she was utterly perfect for the role :) -
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 4:33 PMWondering where you would put the game-playing in the Shape. Is it in all phases, do you think? Here's the wiki entry about it. Is it
Game-playing
"No matter how intensely reciprocation is desired it cannot simply be requested. To ask is to risk premature self-disclosure. The interplay is delicate, with the reactions of each person inextricably bound to the behavior of the other - or at least so in the mind of the Limerant.
Progression toward ecstatic mutuality may not involve externally created difficulties but feinting and parrying, minor deceptions, and falsehoods. The uncertainty required by the limerent reaction may often be merely a matter of perception. Despite ideals and philosophy, a process begins that bears unquestionable similarity to a game. The prize is not trifling: reciprocation produces ecstasy.
Whether it will be won, whether it will be shared, and what the final outcome may be depends on the effectiveness of actions and those of the limerent object; indeed on skill. Deviations from straightforward honesty become essential limerent strategies.
Fears lead to proceeding with a caution that will hopefully protect from disaster. Reason to hope combined with reason to doubt keeps passion at fever pitch and too-ready limerent availability cools. Open declaration of true feelings may stop the process.
Limerent uncertainty as well as projection can be viewed as the consequence of the limerent inclination to hide feelings. Because one of the invariant characteristics of limerence is extreme emotional dependency on the limerent object’s behavior, the actual course of limerence must depend on the actions and reactions of both people.
Uncertainty increases limerence; increased limerence dictates altered action, which serves to increase or decrease limerence in the other according to the interpretation given. The interplay is delicate if the relationship hovers near mutuality; a subtle imbalance, constantly shifting, appears to maintain it.
In most cases each person knows who is more limerent, but this is not always so. In most cases the limerents may believe a certain viewpoint, but the constant uncertainty means they are doubting or questioning themselves for most of the time regarding the other person. This can vary widely between different people." -
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 2:23 AMI think "game-playing" (i.e. limerent strategy) is part of the first two stages, but not the third. You could say that the stages are delineated by belief, doubt, and finally disillusionment. The loss of the illusion sabotages the ability to produce a biochemical reward from fantasising.
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Unsu...
Re: Shape of Limerence
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 6:43 PMSince I'm somewhere toward the end of phase two, or at the most at the very beginning of phase three, I would say that this portrait of the stages of limerence is dead-on, as far as I have come.
It may be that the magnitude of one's limerent self-delusion is clear only as one escapes the prison of the LO. I am getting more aware of my LO's humanity--something I have carefully avoided dwelling on until recently--but I am beginning to realize that once beyond limerence I will see some unattractive things in myself--and I've been avoiding those things, too. -
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 4:24 AMI'm mostly in phase three, but still have days of phase two. During those days, the obsessive thinking goes in and out, not lasting and consuming my entire life. I know the feeling, I think Thinker said it, wondering, ' has this all been just an illusion?' I think once we get past anything in life, good or bad, it does become an illusion in a sense. But, what happened, when it happened, was real at the time. I have a hard time letting that go, a hard time accepting that this was just all in my head...because I don't think it was. My head just took it places that were out of this stratosphere. Is it easier to accept something, if we just tell ourselves it was never real to begin with? Yeah, I'd still like some questions resolved, but there not going to be, maybe that is the hardest thing to accept. -
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 6:09 AMActually, I've often felt that thinking it was all an illusion really made it much harder to deal with. I need it to MEAN something, even if it no longer does.
It's also really difficult to trust my judgment again...that's a really terrible feeling. I almost wish I wasn't over it, because then I could still trust myself and would not have to admit I made a colossal mistake. For a long time, too. Oh well...I guess I will deal with it a little at a time!
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 9:20 AMThe first time we kissed, he's saying, "This is a fantasy, this is a fantasy." And I'm saying, "The fantasy is ending at 6:00." We were sitting in a fast food restaurant in town near our church (amazing that no one saw!), and I was horrified that I was violating my vows for the first time ever. But from 5:00-6:00 p.m. one Sunday I let it go and entered into the fantasy world.
A month later, in a parking lot in full daylight and view of anyone passing by (just exactly like what you and your LO did, Meowbie, in a car park... we say parking lot...) we kissed again and he says, "Es un sueño, un sueño. You know, a dream? It's a dream." And he's shaking his head, trying to ease my conscience because he knows how I am going to explode with guilt and fear in short order... and I did. "It's a dream." He knew full well we were creating a momentary, fleeting, fantas-tic alternate reality. And we tried hard not to use and abuse. There was restraint, making it all the more tender. A few days later he moved and I have not seen him since.
All this talk about what is real, and what is an illusion, is messing with my mind.
I want to add, I told my husband and my three closest friends about the above events.
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 7:12 PMHi Andrew,
I wrestled with those exact same thoughts. Was this really all in my head? How could it be? I desperately needed questions answered, but I didn't ask them because 1), I feared the answer would be "that was nothing!" or 2), the answer wouldn't really matter because it was all history. Analyzing the past was not going to change the present. Even if I was able to get my LO to admit that there was some attraction or seduction going on, what would be the point of that "Ah Ha!" moment? The victory would ring hollow. Still, it took me over a year to let go of those questions.
Cheers,
- Nigel
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 3:49 PMMy limerence was complete fantasy (apart from one cheap trick) My imaginary relationship with an imaginary person (based loosely on my mind's fabrications about a really nice man who I stlll know, and based on a few short conversations with the man) actually had my husband convinced that I was having a real affair... I am not in the marriage anymore. How I managed to function in a job, with kids and all these thoughts racing through my head I just don't know. I think the middle phase was the closest to madness I have ever been. Don't wish to go there again.
So my imaginary obsessive relationship was convincing not only to me but to someone else outside my head. When I now talk to my ex LO I am amazed that he is not the idol I made him in my head. He is not the man I invested. I understand why it happened - the man is a flirt, he likes me and he paid attention to me when I was invisible everywhere else.
But I am alive again due to the whole painful thing. Time frame similar to your RD.
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 6:46 PMMADNESS!! No doubt!
I've often wondered if it isn't psychical - is that a word? Once, early on, I could feel in my body that he was in my town - I just KNEW it. I could feel him. He live hours away and as far as I knew had no reason to be here. When I saw him next he mentioned being in my town for a wedding that weekend. I wasn't even surprised. I swear it is absolute madness. It's scary to think what our minds can do...
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 3:26 PMPsychic! Yes I know. Me too.
I was convinced that I would see or hear from him certain days - and did quite often. I wonder about it. Mine is around again and he is repeating those patterns of communication, and the spells of calling and talking etc. with me.
The difference is I am not trying to contact him in between, and I get the feeling that he is kind of testing me. I'm the dog not bringing the stick back to the owner at the moment. Hope I can keep it up, and I'm only a little concerned that I am concerned about it!!! If you get my drift. I am not emotionally beholden to him.
Sometimes when I am sitting talking to him now I wonder if he was even slightly aware what effect he had on me. I lay strong odds that he will call me tomorrow, because we regularly talked on a friday, and he is now calling me - when i used to call him.
I am glad to be able to be looking back on it now. Do you feel cured RD? -
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 11:30 AMOh winn, guard your heart! I don't want to have to sit at a table with my LO and talk - that's too much for me. I don't know if I am cured just yet.
Have you ever had the flu or any illness really bad - I mean it lasted for a week or more? And then one day you wake up and the flu is gone but you're still weak, a little dizzy, your faculties aren't fully functioning again yet, you feel a little raw and confused like everything has changed but everything looks the same and you don't know what to do with yourself so you sit on the edge of your bed in a bit of a daze thinking to yourself, "What in the HELL was THAT??"
THAT is how I feel most days. And those are my good days :) Maybe I should make that stage 4... the "I think I survived it!" stage
On the bad days, if LO were to come to my door and give me any old dumb excuse for his lame behavior using his soft dangerous tone of voice and looking at me with his big brown eyes... my stomach would flip flop and my heart rate would go through the roof... and I would believe him but not give in to him. But if he told me that his crazy wife had left him and moved to another continent then I'm not so sure I could stay strong... LOL The "problem" is, in real life (vs crazy limerent fantasyland) I mostly like him, what I know of him. -
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Sat, November 7, 2009 - 4:47 PMYup, I like the flu analogy, I thought of it like gradually waking up from a dream. I understand what you are saying. My brain seemed to be in a frantic dervish dance back then. Like you I am not going to completely trust my sanity yet.... but I feel lucid and calm again.
I have been fine with EXLO sitting there talking and chatting for hours again. The man I'm talking to now, is not the same one that I fantasised about day in day out for three years Re guarding the heart. I truly believe that the bubble has burst; the illusion is gone; the man is mortal. I am not obsessed by him any more.
I am as surprised about it as anyone. But yes, I agree I will have to watch myself in case I slip back. I do enjoy his company now, but not as much as I did in my dreams.
I looked back on my journal again and I am surprised that I was still obsessing as recently as May this year. I think I may have given you a clue about what I think sorted me out apart from time. Keeping a journal was also a very useful thing to do. I was not able to do that when I was married because I had no privacy. Fingers crossed. xx
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 9:50 AMToday I, perhaps unwisely, went to LO's website. I hadn't looked at it in a long long time. There are pictures of him on there that used to do me in. When I looked at him today I got that feeling of distance, like someone I used to know but I don't anymore. Does that make sense? And oddly, I feel kind of sad. I'm glad I'm free (mostly) but saying goodbye and letting go is hard. I also get the feeling of "I did WHAT with him???" LOL Oh well. -
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 12:37 PMThat's really well-put, RD...someone you used to know but don't anymore. That *is* what it feels like. There's the memory of things past, and then sadness in looking back at the pain or illusions of the experience, looking back at your hope that this person was really special somehow...and now you see that they are ordinary, like anyone else.
Glad you made it through the site! :)
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Wed, November 11, 2009 - 4:41 PMWOW- you know me. EVERYTHING is me except the crying- instead its just sadness, depression, irritaiton, and massive insecurity.
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 5:04 AMNo tears? Wow! Lucky you! Maybe I cried enough for both of us :)
Sorry you're hurting - I wish no one understood this "shape". But there is some relief in knowing that it is a shared condition and that those before us have found a way out, or through :). -
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Thu, November 12, 2009 - 10:16 AMRD,
Congrats on making it through the site. I remember my ex, looking at his photos hurt for the longest, but then one day they didn't hurt anymore. It's a nice relief.
Good luck coming through, I am still behind you on the curve, but stronger everyday.
Anne
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Fri, November 13, 2009 - 11:16 PMI joined this tribe just to be able to talk about this. I've been going to therapy for a year and a half now because I was having anxiety attacks over this and wanted some medication for relief, you know, and some sleep, but haven't been able to tell my therapist about my LO. Maybe I am still in denial but the separation, distance, and silence have made me a little stronger. If I tell no one directly, then maybe it's not true and we love each other still and have for a thousand years. I've read Dr. Tennov's book on Limerence and scoured the internet for relief and some rational thinking. I am glad there's a name to this and I know what to do--stay away. I can deal with the pain but not the uncertainty.
Don't know what phase but I think about my LO every day. I even find myself checking the internet for news -- just in case. Feels obsessive. We met 2006 and nothing happened, just email but the messages were sublime and the poetry, the music, oh the music. After months of email, we agreed to meet. I was hoping it was all a mistake and that we could be friends but we both ended up trembling -- I couldn't even speak. It was only the second time we met and in a very public place but it felt as if I've known my LO for an eternity. A kiss. Oh my God. In nearly four years we've seen each maybe a dozen or so times. Hours all added up to a couple of days, maybe. No we don't even email any more and I don't know why. We see each other once a year for a couple of hours but maybe that too will stop. We are both married with children. An affair of the soul? I love my family. Too much to give up. Then I think it's all in my head. I've never felt anything like this before and never expected this--is it love? I am not a sentimental person. What do I do? Was it a mistake? Of course it is but too late. -
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Sat, November 14, 2009 - 4:45 AMAn affair of the soul - I like that term. That's how it felt for me too.
I'm glad you found us wcf. You can talk openly in here, and sometimes just writing about it in here helps. I hope you can find the time to read all the previous posts. There are a lot of them and some very good ones.
You aren't alone :)
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Sun, November 15, 2009 - 8:43 PMThank you. This is all very reassuring and rational. Yet, intrusive thoughts are keeping me from being productive at work and getting enough sleep so, needless to say, this is exhausting. In any case, I reread your posts and my symptoms fit the general patterns you've described but I (and others too?) seem to be stuck in all three stages simultaneously. Best is to have little or no contact because the pull will weaken as the connection weakens. I'm not even sure if the attraction is real or all about me (as someone else wrote in a post). Yet, some days I am just a click away from starting all over. Talking with other limerents is a big help, whether or not limerence is an actual phenomenon, fantasy infatuation, or (dare I think this?) love of the deepest kind. My LO and I may both be experiencing the same irrational intensity but our response differs because our lives are in different worlds. I have a good marriage but I live in my head. It's lonely in there without my LO and I miss the intimacy that I don't have with my spouse who is happily snoring away as I should be too. Exhausting.
How are you doing? Does it get easier? How long has it been? You sound very strong. -
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Sun, November 15, 2009 - 9:15 PMHi wcf,
"[O]r (dare I think this?) love of the deepest kind." If you're looking for encouragement here, please allow me. I think it is exactly that. It is the searching we do for the one. When will we ever be sure that we've found her? or him? Cayce said something to the effect that it takes a strong soul to want to take this earthly sojourn. This may be exactly the reason for that comment.
"[B]ut I live in my head. It's lonely in there without my LO..." You know I've never heard it put like that, but that's beautiful. I hate the intrusive thoughts at times, but I truly miss them when they're gone. When this powerful love goes unrequited, living with her in my head is all that I have. For something that seems so obvious, in a way it wasn't. Thanks for typing those words.
-R -
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Mon, November 16, 2009 - 4:53 AM>>>>>When this powerful love goes unrequited, living with her in my head is all that I have.<<<<<
It sounds like she has become more important to you than yourself. I'm not sure that's a good thing.
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Mon, November 16, 2009 - 7:00 AMwcf,
In 2009 I was end stage 2 and stage 3 of my limerence "shape". And I think your lack of productivity is common. It has been debilitating for me. I work for myself and my income this year would put me below the poverty line of most Third World countries. It's going to be a lot of fun trying to explain THAT to hubby come tax time....
I know exactly what you mean when you say you are in three stages at once. I don't think the road through limerence is clear cut or straightforward... 3 steps forward and 2 back. And, at least for me, once I decided that I couldn't take it anymore I started listening to that tiny little voice - that part of me I call my True Self that protected my last shred of self-respect and that limerence can't touch. As I took steps to follow that LIttle Voice I did so relunctantly... take a painful step and drag my heavy heart along behind me. So often I was acting in direct conflict with my feelings.
I haven't seen or talked to my LO since March. If my LO were to knock on my door right now my heart rate would probably go through the roof. Just thinking about it right now has made my hands shake :) I would probably feel a lot of the Stage 1 feelings. But my Little Voice/True Self isn't so little anymore :) and I could observe those feelings and responses and see them for what they are - and for me they are not Love (not love for myself or him) or Truth or Health. It is a Pavlovian response in me. After a few deep breaths and some centering I think I could act toward him in a reasonable and healthy way even as my heart raced and my stomach did flip flops and my hormones surged LOL I know now that I am NOT my limerence :) I am in control now (mostly) , not limerence.
These days, when I don't feel strong it is because I am not taking full respsonsibility but blaming LO instead. That is the oddity about my Limerence - it is/was involuntary yet I have to take responsibility for it to be healthy. And I don't mean judging or criticizing myself but recognizing that limerence is All About Me : what I want, what I need, who I am, who I want to be, what I want from life, rejecting what I don't want anymore, etc.
Yikes, too long. I guess I needed to vent :) -
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Mon, November 16, 2009 - 8:00 AMRD wrote: "These days, when I don't feel strong it is because I am not taking full respsonsibility but blaming LO instead."
I am experiencing a need to break my vow of NC with my LO. In fact, I had the most powerful sustained fantasy about her (well, about us) that I've had in months. When this happens, I go find the pictures of her that I've squirreled away and look longingly at them. But I don't wonder why she doesn't love me any more. She told me why, and at the time I just didn't listen. So, even at the moment I am in the middle of my LO fantasies, I remind myself that they are just that--fantasies, and that's all they'll ever be.
And I also recognize that it's not her fault that she doesn't and can't love me. If the situation were reversed, I would find it tiring if someone were perpetually fixated on me. I'd want them to get a life and leave me alone.
I can't emphasize enough that it is largely through this group that I have been able to gain some perspective on limerence and its power. Although limerence is fairly prevalent in the general population (I suspect that a lot of stalking has its origin in limerence), in social situations it's not typical for people to talk about the character of their obsessions, so unless we sufferers find our way here or to other groups, we suffer in silence.
So, like RD, I accept the fact that I can make progress in dealing with my limerence, but since it's my own mind that I'm struggling with, it rebels from time to time.
And it is VERY tiring, not the least because the people you would normally turn to in times of stress would be shocked at hearing what you had to say. So we find our way here.
Thanks, fellow limerents.
Leaf
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Mon, December 7, 2009 - 12:55 PMThis isn't deserving of a new separate post, but I think some of you guys will enjoy this and it will ring true to you.
There are so many lessons learned in limerence, and from my perspective those positive lessons are learned from a negative (at least tough) experience. However, today I read this line from Veronique Vienne and if I were the wordsmith that she is, I could have written this about my limerence...
"giving in to love as a prelude to falling in love with life"
Isn't that beautiful?
Granted, I hesitate to use love and limerence interchangably... however I did give in to it and it was the prelude to falling in love with life again. So now I have the words to postively recognize and be grateful for Limerence.
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Re: Shape of Limerence
Thu, December 10, 2009 - 6:22 PM"giving in to love as a prelude to falling in love with life"
I like this... no ... love it!!
(((((( RD ))))))
Thanks,
- Nigel
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