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Re: Is enlightenment the ultimate Catch-22?
Mon, October 29, 2007 - 5:03 AMor 21 - 23... -
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Re: Is enlightenment the ultimate Catch-22?
Mon, October 29, 2007 - 6:22 AMLike all things, temporary
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Re: Is enlightenment the ultimate Catch-22?
Mon, October 29, 2007 - 7:29 AMperhaps, but SAYING that you are enlightened almost certainly is.
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Re: Is enlightenment the ultimate Catch-22?
Mon, October 29, 2007 - 9:20 AMWhat do you mean? -
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Re: Is enlightenment the ultimate Catch-22?
Wed, November 28, 2007 - 12:15 PMCatch 22 is a WWII era novel by Joseph Heller. Excerpt as follows:
"There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.
"That's some catch, that Catch-22," [Yossarian] observed.
"It's the best there is," Doc Daneeka agreed."
It can, an usually is, applied to any type of paradoxical situation. -
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Re: Is enlightenment the ultimate Catch-22?
Wed, November 28, 2007 - 12:59 PMOhhhhhhhhhh then Enlightenment is the sound of one hand clapping.
If you only told me before..>:-)))
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Re: Is enlightenment the ultimate Catch-22?
Tue, November 27, 2007 - 11:35 PM"Enlightment" is not necessarily a means to an end. I think enlightment as a concept is much like being awake and being able to disidenitfy from all the social constructs which we have been defining ourselves as, identifying the lies that society imposes on all humans, becoming aware of the dichotomies and the illussion of the media and our minds. and it is something that unfolds moment by moment. some people are more enlightened, or awake, than others. Every human at his or her core is pure and One will All. this realization happens gradually sometimes, at some moments more intensely. getting older and doing it gracefully and mindfully is a beautiful thing because the more experience in this life the more one awakens and finds wisdom. the opposite however is also true, especially when old people are caught up in the illussion that being young is the superior way of being and does not honor his or her self. Our society is very Ageist. Don't give in to that, no matter what age! Every human is a Being as vast as the entire Cosmos. We are passing by here on our way to who knows where. What is the purpose of life? temporary life? why this Earth Walk? =) -
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Re: Is enlightenment the ultimate Catch-22?
Wed, December 3, 2008 - 10:05 PMI think to be "awake" is not the same as knowing "why" you are awake.
Enlightenment, in my opinion, is not to be all-knowing. Where's the fun in that? No more thrills of discovery, of new experiences?
Rather, i think it is to be all-aware. Aware of how much life rocks!
wade -
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Re: Is enlightenment the ultimate Catch-22?
Thu, December 4, 2008 - 4:17 AMNo doubt I could write a book-length reply here that wouldn't explain a thing to anyone. I can only describe my experience.
I was in the Navy in the Pentagon having my lunch at my desk, reading a magazine. (Could this be a less inspiring place for what follows?) Suddenly, in my mind's eye everything went bright white and for a split second, I felt like I understood EVERYTHING. Without the ability to retain this, all I could do was walk around smiling all day, just "knowing" something greater than I had before. At this point in my life, I'd had absolutely no knowledge of Eastern thought or philosophy. At the time I had only just met a civilian guy that I trusted enough to tell about this odd thing. He smiled and handed me Alan Watts' book, THE BOOK ON THE TABOO AGAINST KNOWING WHO YOU ARE. (All caps because there are no italics here.) And so it began, my search, and my newly opened mind. Now Wade's "thrills of discovery" as he called it, are a regular thing. I simply know that there's something bigger and better out there. For me God became bigger than some Zeus-looking character in a robe far away. He (IT) became Everything That IS. A kind of cosmic soup that I can swim in.
Each of us has our own experience, so I don't expect my description will make sense to all of you. I do know that I have the ability to sip some of that soup and make things happen in a God-way that I wouldn't have been able to do otherwise. -
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Re: Is enlightenment the ultimate Catch-22?
Sun, March 29, 2009 - 9:01 PMThere is only paradox when there is duality. Enlightenment transcends paradox. I know that sounds trite, but words never quite fit when talking about enlightenment.
I guess my answer would be that enlightenment is just beyond the whirlpool of paradox.... The catch-22 is the welcome mat.
Brad -
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Re: Is enlightenment the ultimate Catch-22?
Mon, March 30, 2009 - 10:22 PM
attempting to discuss the nature of Enlightenment is as revealing as it is futile, as though you were talking about the nature of love.
to each it is different though it does not exist. or does it? -
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Re: Is enlightenment the ultimate Catch-22?
Tue, March 31, 2009 - 4:49 PMIt is not revealing at all...that's a given. Language belongs per force to the world of duality and distiction. It will never be more than a finger pointing (as it were) to the moon.
However, does that mean we should stop pointing to the experience in hopes that someone will notice what we are pointing at?
If a person thinks that they have arrived at some state of mind termed "enlightenment" they've missed it.
Perhaps a more apt metaphor would be trying to learn how to ride a bicycle by discussing it. You might get some usefull pointers, but until you actually make the effort (self effort in this case) you will get no closer to the joy of feeling the wind blowig through your hair as you zoom in perfect freedom down a summer soaked country lane.
Leo
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