Just wondering: how do you find being gay relates to the journey of enlightenment? Have you found it to be a catalyst, or an impediment? A gift, or a challenge...or both?
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Salt Lake City
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Re: Lavender Enlightenment
Tue, October 23, 2007 - 12:47 PMIn recent years I've come to see my own coming out as a kind of enlightenment experience. At the time I recognized how I suffered from clinging to the idea that I should be someone other than who I was, then took steps to relax my grip, live more authentically and experience some freedom. Admittedly just a baby step but helpful.
That said, I don't see how the "gay community" and "gay culture" much reflect the collective wisdom that comes from everyone's coming out. The singular focus on youth and sexual expression brings about its own profound forms of suffering. -
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Re: Lavender Enlightenment
Tue, October 23, 2007 - 6:52 PMThat has been my experience as well.
I've noticed that being gay can point to wisdom. Certain things that the general culture considers absolute "truth" are simply not true for the average gay or lesbian; it can point to the discovery that much of what we take for granted is illusion. Also, there has been quite a bit of suffering connected with being gay and that also can be a motivator to work towards consciousness...
BUT (and this is a big but)
It can also motivate escapism and pursuit of distraction. There is the temptaion to cling even harder to ego and illusion, like a drowning man clinging to a peice of floating garbage. (glittery and fascinating garbage, but still...)
Yes, now that you point it out, the wisdom that should be there is oddly absent...Hmmm? That is an interesting and very good point...Why do you suppose that is? -
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Re: Lavender Enlightenment
Sat, November 10, 2007 - 10:50 AMI mentioned in other fora that my being gay is just one difference about me. However, I feel that identifying as gay has helped to understand that I constantly need to question my basic assumptions. -
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Re: Lavender Enlightenment
Sat, November 10, 2007 - 7:28 PMActually, that is true for me as well. We have some basic cultural beleifs about sexuality and gender roles that go pretty much unquestioned. Being in a situation where some of the basic assumptions that I was brought up with were simply not true lead me to examine all of them more carefully.
In an earlier reply I complained about the appearant lack of wisdom in gay culture, but as I considered it further I decided that I was (of course) too hasty. We do have our own kind of wisdom, even if it isnot very visible on the surface.
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Re: Lavender Enlightenment
Mon, November 19, 2007 - 11:06 AMBeing gay has taught me to be more tolerant and patient. I suspend judgment; though I may understand myself, others do not. So I try to remember the same is true of everyone. I do however, find it incredibly hard to find a mate on my level of maturity in general, much less someone evolved eanough to share a very deep understanding of each other mutually. -
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Re: Lavender Enlightenment
Sat, November 24, 2007 - 9:09 AMYes, that seems to be the case. People at higher levels of understanding are somewhat rare even in the general population. However, there are how many billion people on earth? There has got to be someone out there! In fact statistically there are probably several hundred thousand truely enlightened gay men out there. The only problem is they are most likely spread out all over the globe. -
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Re: Lavender Enlightenment
Sat, November 24, 2007 - 1:34 PM...higher levels of understanding ???
Hihihihihiii I go for Pink Enlightenment with zero levels of understanding.
... higher levels of understanding ..... hohohoohohoooo Santa is cumming. -
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Re: Lavender Enlightenment
Sat, November 24, 2007 - 5:42 PMI find that as I become more "enlightened" I become more humble and accepting. Every horrible thing that has happened to me has been a gift of understanding. I have realized that I really am no better than anyone else. And, have learned to stand for my values.
Also, I am more accepting of the fact that if I want my dick sucked, it's ok to say, "Bitch, suck my dick!"
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Re: Lavender Enlightenment
Sun, November 25, 2007 - 9:57 AMO.K. You can laugh if you like, but the reality is that what we are is a cross section of everyone else. The only reason that being gay is any different than…oh, let’s say being left handed, is that the culture we live in singles us out for scape-goating. To expect the general population of gay men and lesbians to be any more enlightened than any other group would be unrealistic except for the fact that suffering can be a door way to enlightenment. Make no mistake, that artificial separation from friends, family, and society is painful.
It’s hard to be middle of the road with the conflict that being gay causes; I’ve noticed that as gay men we are either forced to examine our life more closely OR spend it seeking distraction. The distraction seekers are more visible and by nature more dysfunctional.
My point in my last post was to point out that people who reach emotional maturity are just plain rare…sorry but that’s my experience of people in general. I don’t mean to be disparaging, but how many people do you know, gay or straight, that really and truly act like adults when confronted with a difficult situation that pushes their buttons? I would say roughly 10 to 25 percent. Then if you are looking for gays and lesbians out of that group the number goes down even further.
That could be very discouraging except for the fact that there are billions of people on this planet. Also, we live in a time when it is easier than ever before to connect with people all around the globe. That is why forums like this one are such a miracle.
It is very easy to be cynical about what is marketed at us as gay culture. It is aimed at the distraction seekers. But if you look beyond the gyrating strippers, and the pretty boy toys rejecting everyone else because they themselves are terrified of rejection and look for the humanity underneath, there are some marvelous folks quietly living their lives and finding joy.
Leo -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Lavender Enlightenment
Sun, November 25, 2007 - 1:48 PMYes Leo, Amen.....;-)))
"but the reality is ..." is it???
"The only reason that being gay is ... " that is not my only reason...;-)))
and the rest... yeahhh Amen
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Lavender Enlightenment
Sun, November 25, 2007 - 2:40 PM"The only reason that being gay is any different than…oh, let’s say being left handed, is that the culture we live in singles us out for scape-goating."
I don't, and there are others who don't, believe this to be true. In the sense that there is nothing different other than our sexual/affectional preference.
Societies throughout the world, in the past and in the present, have and do single out people that share similar traits to those we associate with the GLBT people in our culture, as having a spiritual awareness not granted to those who aren't. Boy that's a sentence :-)
There has not been enough exploration/research/discovery to completely say for sure one way or the other whether or not gay people have a special spiritual awareness. What can be said is there is a justification for doing the exploration based on anecdotal and anthropological evidence.
I, myself, am exploring being gay as a calling. If I am called to be gay, rather or in addition to being born or choosing, what does that mean in my life. One of the theorist I have read makes a distinction between "gayness" and homosexuality. Gayness is perceived as the calling to be gay. Homosexuality is the physical expression of that call. Meaning if homosexuality or same sex attraction is only the physical aspect of being gay, then how does being gay influence my spiritual life? How does being gay influence my intellectual life? How does being gay influence how I express myself? etc...
Perhaps there is no difference other than who we like to fuck, but saying that without doing honest examination would be a travesty. As would out of hand acceptance of being gay as anything more than that, unless it is born out by experience. And who is to say that it maybe completely different experiences for everyone.
Now of course there is also the distinction or lack of distinction between enlightenment and spiritual development. But that's another discourse. For an interesting tack on this topic read Jorge Ferrer "Revisioning Transpersonal Psychology."
Anyway just my two cents. BTW I'm doing my dissertation on this or at least a very similar topic. "The Stories of Men Who Believe Their Gayness Is Integral to Thier Spiritual Development." I'll be recruiting participants in the new year. If you think that description fits you and you're in the SF Bay Area, then when I post my recruitment ad please respond.
Last thought: Another person I read and I can't remember who at the moment said essentially this: "Being gay doesn't guarantee enlightenment, but it can give a leg up."
Thanks for reading. Great Topic! -
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Re: Lavender Enlightenment
Sun, November 25, 2007 - 3:27 PM"Being gay doesn't guarantee enlightenment,..."
But it does....:-))))
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Re: Lavender Enlightenment
Mon, November 26, 2007 - 11:51 AMSome very good points!
I feel strongly that predominant same sex attraction is purely physical (I am including emotional response as influenced by the body in my definition of physical), however the effects of that are as you say. There is an outsider’s perspective because most people are not gay. Also, in the life experience of being gay, it is difficult if not impossible to separate out the influence of society’s attitudes on what you learn or don’t learn. I think that because of all of that we do indeed have something unique to contribute to society that has been more highly valued in some other cultures.
…so, yes. I would agree.
Regarding enlightenment what can be said? Enlightenment is the natural state of Spirit. Every path to that is simply a process of awakening to it and being able to maintain that awakened state. There are probably as many paths to enlightenment as there are individuals because no one can wake up for you. (Perhaps that is the entire point of individuality?)
I suppose that what I want to know is how that “Other-ness” and all it’s consequences influences to journey into awakening.
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Re: Lavender Enlightenment
Tue, December 25, 2007 - 8:20 PMMost of the time I see it as a blessing to be a differing sexual orientation because I can be just me, not as confined by roles or societal pressure. I still prefer people not to know my sexuality right off the bat only because a lot of times they make compulsatory assumptions about me as a person from then on until I somehow prove them "wrong" by my actions. I don't by any means want to base myself around their unintended forms of misunderstanding and assumptions, I just try to let them see how intricate I am first, how many multi-layers beyond just orientation. Sometimes I purposefully keep them guessing just to bend the gender paradigms one person at a time. I this also illustrates how it's a blessing because I can show those bent in their dualistic ways, intentionally or not, that there are no easy answers here, nor should there ever be.
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