Hello all.

Please support you sisters in the UK. We are now banned from purchasing dance swords.

Sad news I'm afraid. I have just spoken to Jonathan Batt, at the home office who has confirmed that we (belly and tribal dancers in the UK) are covered in the VCR (Violent Crimes Reduction Bill).
As Belly dancers, we are not covered in the exemptions of being classed as a 'sporting activity' or a Historical reenactment. While we can perform with our existing swords, if you have public liability insurance. You can no longer purchase a new blade.

This is scary thought, as if we are not included in the exclusions to the ban, the art form of sword dancing will ultimately die out in the UK! my sword was broken recently In a workshop when it was dropped. I now can't get a new one....

The only way we can get this changed for all belly dancers is to contact the home office and request that as a dance form that we are allowed to continue to be allowed to purchase swords, so that we can continue with a beautiful art form.

Please, Please take the time to contact Jonathan and request that he put forward to the Home Office that bellydancers and tribal dancers are made exempt from the VCR Bill. He is a nice guy and has agreed to be the contact point for this query. It will take a huge volume of dancers contacting him to make a difference, so please take the time to write to him.

His contact details are Jonathan.Batt@Homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk

Also if you are a member of a tribe, where this is not mentioned, can you please post information there.

Ta
Denise
posted by:
Denise
United Kingdom
  • Re: Swords banned in the UK.... Please read

    Sat, April 12, 2008 - 1:55 AM
    I've just had a conversation with an agent of mine who ordered some reproduction pirate swords from the US. They where seized by customs and he had to write a letter stating that they where a performance prop. They did actually release them and this was for performance purposes not Historical reenactment so that's worth a go if you've order swords from abroad.
  • Re: Swords banned in the UK.... Please read

    Sat, April 12, 2008 - 5:40 AM
    Hi ladies,

    This is an email i sent incase anyone needs inspiration / help getting an email out the door faster.

    ++++

    For the attention of Jonathon Batt,

    Thank you for agreeing to be the contact reference for:
    ->receiving "requests to observe and recognise sword bellydancers for inclusion of exemption in the VCR bill",

    Appended below is the info currently in circulation to inform us of our recently illegalised historical art form, but perhaps further info is required, as a hunt on the internet seems to imply that it is only Sumarai styled swords or is it all swords?

    Referenced: nds.coi.gov.uk/Content/Detail.asp

    --> Upon confirmation, I can ensure that the necessary education is reflected on social networking sites / correspondences.

    This news is creating a large out-cry in the Dance Community. I would appreciate it if you could file my emails with the others that you will receive for preperation in presenting this to your superiors / decision revisement board.

    Best respects and repeated thanks for being point of contact,
    Nicola Harding, Brighton UK

    "Hello all.

    Please support you sisters in the UK. We are now banned from purchasing dance swords.

    Sad news I'm afraid. I have just spoken to Jonathan Batt, at the home office who has confirmed that we (belly and tribal dancers in the UK) are covered in the VCR (Violent Crimes Reduction Bill).
    As Belly dancers, we are not covered in the exemptions of being classed as a 'sporting activity' or a Historical reenactment. While we can perform with our existing swords, if you have public liability insurance. You can no longer purchase a new blade.

    This is scary thought, as if we are not included in the exclusions to the ban, the art form of sword dancing will ultimately die out in the UK! my sword was broken recently In a workshop when it was dropped. I now can't get a new one....

    The only way we can get this changed for all belly dancers is to contact the home office and request that as a dance form that we are allowed to continue to be allowed to purchase swords, so that we can continue with a beautiful art form.

    Please, Please take the time to contact Jonathan and request that he put forward to the Home Office that bellydancers and tribal dancers are made exempt from the VCR Bill. He is a nice guy and has agreed to be the contact point for this query. It will take a huge volume of dancers contacting him to make a difference, so please take the time to write to him.

    His contact details are Jonathan.Batt@Homeoffice.gsi.gov.uk"
  • Re: Swords banned in the UK.... Please read

    Thu, April 17, 2008 - 8:16 AM
    I got the email below in reply to mine.

    Dear Ms Wood



    Thank you for your recent email regarding the ban on swords with a curved blade of over 50 centimetres and the effect of this on belly dancing.



    The Government has now banned the sale, hire, manufacture and import of samurai swords, through a ban on all swords with a curved blade of 50cm or over in length, due to their use in violent crime. The ban came into force on 6 April 2008 having received Parliamentary approval following debates in the Commons and the Lords which unanimously supported the ban. It is important to note that legislation already exists that bans the possession of these weapons in a public place, and that it will be permissible for those who already own swords which fit the definition to retain ownership.



    As you may be aware the ban follows on from a Government consultation paper published on 5 March 2007 which detailed proposals to ban samurai swords and gave a 12-week window for people to let us have their views. The closing date for the consultation was 28 May 2007.



    In terms of the ban going too wide in picking up all curved swords, the Government thinks this is proportionate in order to ensure that we have a definition that is enforceable and which has a real impact in terms of reducing the availability of items that have and can be used in violent crime. The proposed ban is about protecting people and communities and it is important to have a definition that minimises the need for subjective interpretation.



    In banning such swords, the Government has sought to safeguard legitimate use by including defences in the Offensive Weapons Order for collectors of genuine Japanese swords, for those who partake in historical re-enactments and for swords used by martial arts enthusiasts. Regarding adding extra defences for groups such as belly dancers who consider their legitimate use of curved swords has been unfairly targeted by the definition, there is a risk that by creating too many defences it makes any ban unenforceable by police, customs and the courts. However, we will, of course, listen to and consider representations from such groups.



    Please find the link below to the summary of responses paper and subsequent Order laid before Parliament.



    www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documen...weapons/





    www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2008/...0973_en.pdf





    We do not propose, at present, to add any other articles to the Offensive Weapons Order, although policy on offensive weapons is constantly kept under review.



    Regards

    Jonathan Batt
    Public Order and Offensives Weapons section
    Public Order Unit

    020 7035 1807
    • Re: Swords banned in the UK.... Please read

      Thu, April 17, 2008 - 10:44 AM
      this is the same responce sent to all who have contacted him...he dosent seem very willing to help but we must persist!
      • Re: Swords banned in the UK.... Please read

        Thu, April 17, 2008 - 4:24 PM
        I wonder how strict their definition of a martial arts club is? What would happen if we set up a new martial arts club for
        a new style that happened to be fused with bellydance?! 'Flying crane does bellyroll then flashes sword'...

        And if sword dancing has now been banned, then it's 'history', so performing a sword dance would then be
        a historical re-enactment of the period before 6th April. Wouldn't it?

        It seems to be that it's fine to buy an expensive 'antique' sword, which is just as capable of hurting someone as
        a modern one. But I couldn't see anything saying it's ok to dance with an existing posessed sword? Is that true?
        The definitions don't seem to be very well thought out at all...and there was some mention of swords being ok
        in theatrical performances...surely that could include many bellydance performances?

        I've just got back from seeing a sword dance in a restaurant. No one was arrested!
        • Re: Swords banned in the UK.... Please read

          Tue, April 22, 2008 - 12:12 AM
          I've had a new reply from Jonathan Batt. Obviously the messages you're sending are starting to take some effect, but we need to push this more and get a definite answer:-

          Denise

          Further to my email of 17 April, I should add that section 43 of the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 did introduce a defence for those supplying offensive weapons for TV, theatrical performances and film productions. This measure provides those companies and retailers who sell and hire any items on the Offensive Weapons Order for film, television and theatre productions with a defence from prosecution. This measure came into force on 6 April 2008.

          I cannot offer a definitive view on whether belly dancing constitutes “theatrical performances”. You could contact the trade union for artists and performers, Equity, for advice. It is important to remember that the offence is not on purchase but on sale or hire, and production of an Equity membership card may provide a retailer with the necessary confidence that he is acting within the law in selling a curved sword for use in TV, theatrical and film productions.

          The Home Office can only offer guidance on the legislation – it would be for Individuals to take legal advice if they have any doubts as to whether they are captured by the legislation. I would be grateful if you could add this response to any belly dancing forums etc so it would attract wider coverage.

          Regards

          Jonathan Batt
          Public Order and Offensives Weapons section
          Public Order Unit

          020 7035 1807
          • Re: Swords banned in the UK.... Please read

            Tue, April 22, 2008 - 11:56 AM
            That's sounding promising on the perhaps being able to BUY a sword, but I think there's some wording in the original
            act...part of which turned up in a google search but couldn't find it in context...

            " sale or hire, exposes or has in his possession for the purpose of sale or hire"

            so does that mean an offence is committed as soon as the sword is exposed?

            I will email him once I can find a polite way of saying how ridiculous the wording and exclusions are :)
  • Re: Swords banned in the UK.... Please read

    Thu, April 24, 2008 - 8:52 AM
    Well, this is good to know...which means I won't be teaching any sword workshops in the UK and I can't bring my own!! I'll have to tell Piper, she's coming to teach a workshop in September...I think.
    • Re: Swords banned in the UK.... Please read

      Thu, April 24, 2008 - 10:45 AM
      just posted this on bellydance uk but repeating here....

      I wrote to Equity to see what they thought and just got this (have omitted their name as I haven't asked permission to post this...but it
      seems promising:


      "We have many belly dancers who are members of Equity who join under the ‘variety’ guidelines. To join you would need to complete the application form and return it with evidence of four past paid gigs and one future date. You can download the application form from our website or, if you prefer, we can post one to you.

      In terms of samurai swords, our understanding is that the definition ‘theatrical’ does apply to most types of performance including cabaret performances, television, film etc. rather than just performances in a theatre. The ban is on sale, manufacture, import and hire and there should be no change in use of swords for performance as stated above. If you wish to buy a new sword then you should be able to do so if it is for a legitimate purpose such as for use in entertainment. Showing a valid Equity card may convince a seller that you are above board or Equity may have to write a letter on your behalf if they need further evidence. Obviously swords would need to be carried securely wrapped when in public when travelling to and from a job.

      Equity is still seeking clarification from the minister at the Home Office that our understanding of the legislation, as indicated above, is correct and we will report this to our members once we have received this.

      Please do not hesitate to contact me if you require any further information. "



      Anyone want to pay an enthusiastic student for a gig so I can get my card?!!!!