Rage

topic posted Tue, April 3, 2007 - 10:29 AM by  Unsubscribed
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Spirit Says:

"Remember this: Rage is not true power, and any who use it as such will find out soon enough how false it is."

Land of Pan
page 241
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  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Rage

    Tue, April 3, 2007 - 11:21 AM
    This is only ONE "understanding" on the issue of rage....
    just one little piece of the big rage picture....But in the context that it was said in the Orange Book ...it is of course, absolutly,correct

    There are MANY MANY different kinds of Rage...
    the "rightiousness" or "evil" of Rage, depends upon the amount of Heart Presents and Counciousness that is moveing in the Rager....and also the amount of Heart Presents and Counciousness in the person recieveing the Rage

    Rage can be very very Good in the right hands....
    and it can also be very very bad in the wrong hands...

    Did i say that right?
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Rage

    Tue, April 3, 2007 - 11:50 AM
    I agree with this. Rage has been a tricky thing for me to deal with without it distracting me by focusing blame on another. I have finally found my process with it though.

    I find that when I am feeling rage it's usually because 1. I need to have a boundary between me and others in that place where rage is triggered, in other words it's a very sensitive place in me that needs to be left alone and rage is the mask of defense (an example of this would be a animal with a broken leg that attacks you in rage because it perceives you as a threat while it's in a state of vulnerability, but the core issue is that it is hurting and in pain) and 2. The rage is often not equal to the present experience and a result of built-up emotion from damage that took place in the past.

    I learned a great deal about my rage once I realized it was mask and examined the causes inwardly instead of venting it on others outwardly to distract myself from dealing with the layers beneath - it tells me where my remaining gaps are hurting the most IMO. I prefer to move rage in solitude, I enjoy breaking stuff, screaming, and cussing - it's a release, especially when I finally break down into deep crying.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Rage

      Tue, April 3, 2007 - 3:04 PM
      Thanks Heartbroken, it's good to be reminded of this. Sometimes when my rage is moving it makes me feel really powerful. I get this feeling of entitlement that says it's my job to tell people what their denials are, or blame them for how they are hurting me. I have a lot of rage and unloving light inside of me still, and I am working to own that as best I can.

      Rachel, the process you are describing is what I have mostly adopted for myself after finding out through experience how rage affects and hurts the people I love. In my quest to express it, I create more wreckage and damage and drive people away from me. I don't want this, but I still want to express the rage and give it the voice it needs to have. I have started moving it in private, and have been able to get down to the fear, grief and sadness that my rage pressures down. This is what Spirit suggested, or cautioned us to do to keep ourselves safe, and those around us also. I remember Him saying somewhere in the books to avoid hurting ourselves or anyone else while doing this process. I'm not always good at it, but I do make an effort to remove myself to my safe space when I get triggered and move it in private.

      Thanks again Heartbroken.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Rage

        Tue, April 3, 2007 - 4:12 PM
        Barry,

        I can relate, I most definately do not want to hurt anyone with my rage also, which is why I move it in private - though rage tends to tell you they deserve it so it can overpower them. Rage can certainly paint itself with broad strokes self-righteousness. I figure the cycle of rage damage has to stop with me. It's encouraging to see others who do it also. I have learned the sense of power that comes with rage is false, as it is coming from a place of insecurity instead of secureness - a need to control and dominate others by raging them into submission, which is not true power. True power never has to dominate others to feel safe, it just is, IMO, and it supports and empowers others instead of attacking them.
        • Re: Rage

          Thu, February 7, 2008 - 7:43 PM
          Hey Rachel

          I know for myself moving rage in a private ,safe place is the best way for me to move the guilt, death out of me & heal my lost Will.

          I can own there are definitely times where I feel sheer rage, frustration, powerlessness that I contimplate doing some very nasty things,given if I had the tools to do it. Machine guns, timed detinator explosives. And not give a shit about the concesquences.

          It is frustrating for me to read that Father Spirit states that moving against the outside reflection is not the way to do it.
          • Re: Rage

            Thu, February 7, 2008 - 10:44 PM
            I sure don't want to deny my anger,rage and have it fragment out of me to come back and kill me, like what happened with John Lennon.

            Rage is one of the most heavily denied emotions on earth right now, (Original cause 2).

            I'm really glad it has been mentioned & explored here on this thread. Heard some pretty good stuff!
            • George too...

              Fri, February 8, 2008 - 8:56 AM
              Strangely enough George Harrison experienced a near-fatal stabbing not long before he died-- how about that?

              Same denial huh?

              An attack from outside is a reflection of one's own lack of self acceptance.

              No one can attack you if you accept yourself - including your feelings of rage and violence.

              Remember, they are just feelings and what makes them so "bad" feeling is the denial they have received.
              • Re: George too...

                Sat, February 9, 2008 - 7:04 AM
                I really have to wonder about that statement if one really loves & accept themselves, no one can attack you. I'm sure they can try.
                • Re: George too...

                  Sat, February 9, 2008 - 8:43 AM
                  I respect your questioning this. I remember when I first got in contact with new age type people and when someone got sick the New Assholes would explain to them that they were in denial of something. I think in a certain sense this is true, but 'healthy' people may be in even more denial. Also, the levels of self-acceptance needed to never get ill and never be attacked have not really been reached by willish people yet on earth. So to wander around pointing the finger and using illness or 'being attacked' as signs someone is in denial is very unloving. And some people are carrying a lot of very old essence with them. This essence is going to have a different process healing itself. The ones who seem not to get ill or attacked are often immune because they are so damn shallow. They are barely here.

                  If anyone starts, essentially, giving you a grade for having been attacked or not having the perfect life yet, they are the ones who really need to go look deeply at what they are denying and why they want that wanker position in relation to you. Or me.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: George too...

                    Sat, February 9, 2008 - 2:49 PM
                    That's an interesting perspective, Moreno. I'm going to examine this more closely and see what it means for me?

                    W.L.
                • Re: George too...

                  Sat, February 9, 2008 - 2:56 PM
                  Wonder all you like, its in the RUoW books.

                  I was just seeing parallels in the experiences of the two Beatles John and George.

                  The John Lennon death was an example in RUoW showing that his own denied hatred killed him.

                  This means he had such hatred for his own anger, having judged it as unloving to feel hatred toward others, that he denied his own will, his own feelings of hatred, to the point that that denied will essence fragmented out, leaving him and then went to a spirit that would accept it and even act it out.

                  This is the only explanation that makes any sense to me. For me, I don't believe in a random universe. There are causal connections in all relationships. Especially someone who deals you your death.

                  I invite you to read the second book: the Unseen Role of Denial or "Why bad things happen to good people" to get the full story.

                  I try to understand how my environment is reflecting my inner conditions. To see experience as a mirror. Reflecting either peace or conflict. I find it works for me.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: George too...

                    Sat, February 9, 2008 - 4:35 PM
                    Say I liked your last post. It was clear & concise. Care to give a take on Kurt Cobain?

                    W.L.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: George too...

                    Sat, February 9, 2008 - 11:13 PM
                    Well I wouldn't go so far as to conclude that Lennon hated his feelings of anger or rage. I think you're reading more into it than what's there. He just denied the expression of them, unless you know something of his life that's not in RUOW books?

                    If something in the books or not., I still have the freedom of choice to examine it & see if it fits for me, thank you very much!
                    • Re: George too...

                      Sun, February 10, 2008 - 7:12 AM
                      I thought it was more that when John said what he said about the Beatles and Jesus he felt guilty, whatever his conscious mind said about that. Adn this guilt had a powerful effect on him, it festered as a nugget of self-hatred, perhaps both for what he said, but also for feeling guilty, and also for not being able to not give a shit about what people thought. It is a huge thing to get up in front of the world and say or do something that everyone reacts to. I think that is part of why so many famous people get hooked on drugs. They need something extra to navigate and deny the incredible triggers involved.
                      • Re: Rage: Denied anger and rage - False Will

                        Sun, February 10, 2008 - 8:30 AM
                        Hi

                        My take on John Lennon’s death with regard to it being mentioned R.U.O.W is that John Lennon had a lot of anger and rage issues that went all the way back to his childhood… A lot of people made John angry... but instead of expressing his anger, he would deny it and be the nice guy… as that was what he was taught… (Imprints, programs and beliefs)

                        This REAL anger and rage (The Will’s expression to being attacked and denied) was never expressed, and was replaced instead by a False Will and the presentation façade of being a “nice” guy that was acceptable… It was this REAL rage, that, when denied by its Spirit… (reversed it’s polarity) and went out as DENIED anger and rage to become the form that was to later, attack and kill John Lennon.

                        Being that it was John Lennon’s Spirit (Mind) that denied his Will (Intuition and feelings) its real expression of anger and rage (in the moment) when it felt it was being attacked… This manifested “denied” anger and rage had only blaming hatred that wanted to attract John Lennon’s (Spirit) and kill him for what it did… for being insensitive… There was no love in this rage essence… only hatred and revenge at the phony Spirit “nice guy” presentation façade that John Lennon portrayed…

                        John Lennon’s portrayal of being a sensitive person was in complete denial of himself as he was a cruel and brutal killer when it came to his Will, but presented instead, a nice “False Will” to those around him, even to those that he felt were unlovingly attacking him… The killing that he (Spirit/Mind) was doing to his Will, finally came back to kill him…

                        John
                        • Unsu...
                           

                          Re: Rage: Denied anger and rage -

                          Sun, February 10, 2008 - 1:42 PM
                          I think Moreno is touching on something important.

                          I think its important to realize the other aspect of what is presented in the Unseen role of denial is that denials come from the top down.

                          They start in purple and go down through red... at each level or chakra the manifestations of the denial become more pronounced. In purples they may be very subtle and hardly noticeable which is why they're "unseen", (they are only noticeable to the Will who then feels like she's going crazy when Spirit doesn't give the indication of noticing these things also).... in red they are most extreme and most intense. that is why the Will is the most horribly treated in the middle Eastern countries.... While the Spirit polarized U.S. looks on in horror and even condemns these things, its own denied involvement actually perpetuates them as is becoming so blatantly apparent lately

                          these things surfacing in the public eye and the revelation of the U.S. denied involvement and support of them is has been coming to light recently speciffically to happening to give the Spirit polarity on earth an oppurtunity to understand the relationship between these subtle denials in purple and their extreme manfistations in the more dense levels of the physical plane and align with love by ending these denials in themselves.

                          I think to some extent also denial must end from the top down. God has taken the lead in ending his denials..., It is well explained in green how God had to end his denials first and that none of the other Spirits really could do this without Him doing it first and how He had to get over the guilt that told him this was an 'ego-trip' to think He was responsible for everything....

                          Similarly I think with the manifested Spirits, if denials don't end in purple where they are at their most subtle levels, they can't really end in any of the other colors, cause it must take place from the top down. So while what Il divino is saying holds true, I feel that it is not all there is to the story. There is another layer of complexity. As in the john lennon example. What is not explicitly pointed out is that If he were say a yellow Spirit, he could not really have moved his rage into love and acceptance successfully if it is not being accepted in green and on up. Similarly for the rest of the Will, I believe it cannot really change or fundamentally alter the reasons why horrible reflections keep coming to it, unless the corresponding denials are first moved in the Spirit polarity, If it tries to move without acceptance from Spirit, its attempts to move are only going to draw more smacks.

                          the contingency plan that is suggested here in Earth Spell (in lieu of the Spirit polarity geting its act together) as I understand it is for the Spirit polarity that has already manifested to actually be disbanded, and sent outside of God's light into the space called Hell which the Mother has opened for this purpose, so the lost Will can get the light it needs and it is also hinted that then a new Spirit polarity could come forward to replace it.

                          What I believe moreno is pointing to here is the tendency say Green might have of pointing out yellow is denying such and such without realizing its own more subtle denial first (i am just using green and yellow as an example here it could apply to any pair of colors such as blue and red, purple and indigo, silver and gold, etc.). Its more subtle because its manifestations may not be as noticeable, but without green first undenying it, yellow is going to be pretty much helpless here.
                          • Re: Rage: Denied anger and rage -

                            Sun, February 10, 2008 - 3:04 PM
                            Excellent points.

                            The added layer of complexity you speak of (top-down denials of spirit toward not allowing freedom of the will) no doubtedly was the very thing responsible for there not being any other direction to move in--and thus the inevitable encounter of JL and MDC.

                            Both sides of JL and MDC were unable to move their positions on bringing this essence back together. Tragic.

                            They polarized away from each other with the gap in the middle unable to connect.

                            There was no other option, otherwise God's grace would find a different way.

                            I pray I will always be able to see myself in other's eyes
              • Re: George too...(from wikipedia)

                Sun, February 10, 2008 - 3:19 PM
                "In late 1999 Harrison survived a knife attack by an intruder in his home, which in some ways mirrored John Lennon's murder.

                On the evening of 30 December 1999, Michael Abram broke into the Harrisons' Friar Park home in Henley-on-Thames and stabbed George multiple times, ultimately puncturing his lung.

                Harrison and his wife, Olivia, fought the intruder and detained him for the police.

                35-year-old Abram, who believed he was possessed by Harrison and was on a "mission from God" to kill him, was later acquitted on grounds of insanity.

                Harrison was traumatized by the invasion and attack and was rarely seen in public afterward."
                • Re: Denied rage fragments

                  Sun, February 10, 2008 - 4:54 PM
                  I can't remember which R.U.O.W. book... but there is mention of becoming aware of people that are you... In other words, your fragments... In checking the Wikipedia link and also googling John Lennon's birthday I found that John Lennon was born on October 9, 1940 and that Mark David Chapman was born May 10, 1955 .. So that would make John about 15 years old when when Mark was born.. Fifteen years would be a long time of denial and fragmentation.. not to mention that this major fragment occurred around the time of John reaching adolescence.

                  I'm reflecting back on my life and I would have to say that that was an extremely difficult period for me too, so I'm wondering what fragments I have... I just stopped as I realized that I met one of my denied rage fragments a few years back, in a man that tried to choke me... He was about 12 years younger than me... He had gone though similar unloving experiences as a child, except that he openly rebelled against authority figures since he was old enough to talk back and that he was punished for it. That discipline only made him become harder and more bitter and defiant, and also more paranoid that he was going to be attacked...

                  When I read the post on the knife attack on Harrison, I flashed back to what I feel is another rage fragment of mine.. but this time in the form of a woman... She would be at least 18 years younger than me, but that would also tie into a major experience I had of being attacked by a person with a knife involving a woman....

                  Hummm? I thought I've healed my issues involving both these fragments (and more) but I'm now wondering if there's more that I'm not seeing or feeling... as this topic is coming up for a reason.... Things that make you go Himmmm?

                  John
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Denied rage fragments

                    Mon, February 11, 2008 - 4:05 AM
                    I thought this was a very interesting post, John. I appreciated it.

                    This is a jump to the side, perhaps. But this discussion makes me think of paparazzi.
                    I have noticed in recent years how angry I have felt about what they do - invading the private lives of famous people, trying to trigger them and then get the results on film, get the most unflattering shots - and also the whole industry of gossip reporting on celebrities. The continuous unpleasant set of reflections that it seems like - I mean man it sure seems like - one has to just let wash over you if you are seen by the public as having greatness - something the Beatles of course lived through.

                    I have also felt very sympathetic for celebrities, even ones whom I do not respect as 'artists' but nevertheless feel terrible that they are minutely dissected, mocked and harrassed in this way.

                    I think before, maybe 10, 15 years ago, I would have kind of shrugged about the issue. They are famous, comes with the turf.

                    And of course many of them have jumped past fear and lunged into the public eye and all that.

                    But now it seems like I want to take back the ability to move into greatness, carefully, slowly, and not assume that this means it is open season on me or my loved ones and friends as they move into expressing their greatness and perhaps being noticed.

                    So it's not: Oh, those bad papparazzi, however much I hate them at times. But the desire for slow steps and the reintegration of greatness fragments and for there to really be self-care as we slowly take up tiny bits of more space.

                    And yes, owning rage so it doesn't come back at us and also because it is a part of us and deserves a good home, but also fear, all that fear about what it is to step into the light. Fears that it has seemed one just has to swallow, or drug out, or deny.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Denied rage fragments

                    Sun, May 18, 2008 - 9:10 AM
                    John

                    That was interesting when you mentioned about becoming aware of other people that may be you, us. Around where I live there are a fair number of homeless people who get by panhandling or collecting empties. Seeing these people and wondering if they have much essence left in them in their will to survive. The other thing is these same people aren't really threatening,but they could be. i believe Spirit addresses these people as Lost Will.

                    The books suggest that those that have the consciousness to absorb the material in the books are key parts in this healing. It also seems to suggest that fragments like ourselves are parental spirits. I sure don't feel like one. I do feel like I'm one of the oldest spirits whose in real rough shape though.
                    • Re: Denied rage fragments

                      Sun, May 18, 2008 - 7:49 PM
                      Hi WL,

                      From my experiences, homeless people are not just lost Will essence fragments, but they run the same variations that are found in the rest of society. The only difference is that they are experiencing life from a different point-of-view in that they they don’t conform to social morals and standards, in that they don’t have a job so that they can afford to rent or own a home.

                      There are also some people who appear to be homeless, but who make their living either off the homeless, or those that feel guilty and sorry for those they consider less fortunate. Then taking the same job/home scenario to what is considered acceptable society, there are those that don’t have a “job” per say, but make their money using other people, or other peoples money to live the “good” life.

                      Yes, the books say that some of the people attracted to R.U.O.W. are parental Spirits, but R.U.O.W. has been around for a while and I also know (from personal experiences) that some of the people that are involved in R.U.O.W. are not in it to heal themselves, but are in it to stop those that have intent to heal themselves... and that is IMPORTANT to know...

                      They have knowledge of R.U.O.W. and they can either present themselves as being kind and loving or they come at you with unbridled rage, whatever it takes to throw a parental Spirit off their path... I’m sure you’ve heard the old saying.. “bull shit baffles brains”.. and if you are only using your mind and not also going by what you feel, they have done their job.

                      But saying that, that’s what R.U.O.W is all about... learning to know and understand (by experience) what love is.... by (feeling) what is not love... But think about it... having these denial Spirits and Spirit Polarity people around is a good thing as who else is able to push your buttons, certainly not your so-called friends and loved ones.. I’m not saying that everyone that pushes your buttons is one of “them” as Love Spirits in denial people also do that, but that is also something that you need to feel to find the truth of who is who...

                      John
                      • Re: Denied rage fragments

                        Sun, May 18, 2008 - 9:50 PM
                        John,
                        you seem to be very up and knowlegable with what's in the books more than anyone i've seen here on tribe. I hate to say this but sometimes I get the impression that your a denial spirit, as your feedback or postings comes across so spirit polarized.

                        There are definifitely varying degrees and circumstances around the vibration of homeless people that seems just as equvalent to the Lost Will in third word countries in Africa where the ablity to provide the means to live day to day is a great struggle.

                        I don't know if I concur about your last paragraph. People close to me and loved ones provide plenty of triggers for me, especially my own family members; I don't feel their denial or Luciferian spirits, but we are definitely on different levels of evolutionary pathways.

                        Even being here on tribe,discussing RUOW subjects I have found to be distracting, even addictive as a substitute for not moving my Lost Will, as for most us of not having a religious medium to congrigate to have a followship to go to as those that embrace organized religion.

                        Being triggered by others is a mystery to me? I think most of us are brought up to have certain boundaries, values and certainly learned reactions when confronted with annoyance or conflict. Some of us come from families where dad comes home from work and is in a foul mood and takes his anger,frustration out by kicking the dog, wife of the kids or dives for the bottle to cope with the demands and pressures of this busy world. I don't know how married or shacked up couples manage to stay together? Triggered now, need to stop.
                        • Re: Lost Will

                          Mon, May 19, 2008 - 6:14 AM
                          Hi WL,

                          I’m curious as to what you mean by Spirit polarized.. Yes, I know what the R.U.O.W. definition is, but I’d like to hear it in your own words, as to why you think that. Is it because I’m not being activated and gapping, and expressing myself with denied rage, judgments and false Will in the same way like the rest of you are, into issues that I cleared up years ago?

                          I hear people talking about recovering and healing their Will, or their lost Will, but in the next breath I also hear them talking about having boundaries and expecting the people that are activating them to be more sensitive, compassionate, understanding and loving to them, so that they can heal their Will in a “gentle” way by not being “triggered” as they are.

                          That denial based mentality is like having a broken leg with a compound fracture and asking everyone, not to touch your leg or to cause you any pain, as you want to heal your leg as gently and as painlessly as possible. While it’s a “nice” idea, you know as well as I do that that isn’t going to work... and if it doesn’t work with the physical body, it also doesn’t work with the emotional body.

                          In my experience, Lost Will is just that... LOST... and when it’s lost you don’t have a clue as to who, what, where, when, why and how it became lost or what the real issues are, because if you did.. then it wouldn’t be lost.. (Dah! Go figure.. eh!) Being triggered is exactly what you need in order to reach your gap that will enable you to reach that lost Will fragment that is in the gap and to “begin” the healing process that will allow it to be integrated back into yourself...

                          Of course people that are family and friends trigger you, and you trigger them... and these issues are the hardest to heal because we have more attachments to these people than we have with strangers. BUT.. if your family was REAL... or you were REAL.. and you triggered their gap or they yours, would you still be as close are you are? It’s only our old imprints, programs and beliefs and our denials and guilt that maintain the illusion of a having a loving family and friends.

                          The easiest way to begin to heal is to be triggered by strangers and to consciously choose to end your denials by expressing what you are being activated into and expressing what you are really feeling in that moment.... that you never felt before... (hint.. this is an aspect of your lost Will). Once you have gained experience in ending your denials with that aspect of your lost Will, you then work your way back (doing the same thing when you are activated) through community, acquaintances, co-workers, friends, relatives, family and finally to your mate, and then you start the process all over again, on a different level or with a different issue.

                          John
                          • Re: Lost Will

                            Mon, May 19, 2008 - 8:40 AM
                            Okay, John

                            You make several valid points.

                            When I said your so spirit polarized, I was inclining to say unemotional or lack of emotional depth when you carry yourself here.

                            When you mention false will and gapping like the rest of us. Now your treading unto some very iffy territory with projections of knowing what it and what isn't false will in my judgement. You saying that is almost going along the lines where Spirit says in the 2nd book. Just because you've read it doesn't mean you've understood what you've read. Then Spirit hits the reader with stuff like, what vyou may think is a correct understanding is in fact a misunderstanding. I hope you'll know what part I'm talking about.

                            If you say false will, i could also see that as projecting one thing but meaning another thing. What about a presenting a presentation face to the rest of the world, especially in the business world nowadays. Then there's the Victorian proper code of being of which C3po in Star Wars illustrates or even stuff by John Brawshaw in his book " Healing the Shame that binds you". The False will thing to know what it is or what isn't seems to be shabby, uncertain territory.

                            I think you draw an excellent point when you mention people here attempting to find means to heal and share understandings with other in the hope of being to heal, yet like you say heal their Will in a gentle, compasionate,respect my boundaries, loving way. it one is going toexpectt that, where are the triggers going to come from? John, I think that is the most profound thing I have ever read by you. I'm glad you brought it up. Bringing it up makes me ponder about how much hardness is in my own Will and getting the hard knocks or shocks to be triggered to move my Original Cause, because Spirits says to us; Your almost dead. I'm a great procrastinator and the Earth changes are happening with earthquakes in China, brutal storms in Burma makes me fear for my own survival and well being in this fucking, fucking, fucking complicated, complex exsistance I find myself apart of.

                            Fuck you too God. You and Heart can go hide in your fucking reverie in Your blissful heavens. But God likes to say I've already seen what most of you fence sitters are going to do. Oh I'm getting triggered and getting off track. Strange I get my best triggers by bringing forth out on paper or speaking my mind in a private space or typing here with the safety measures of the web. No pressure is being put on my me here except that which I choose to allow for myself .

                            In a way i did myself a diservice with my family members. My mother threatned to disown me. After reflecting on all the events of my life with her and feeling like a burden, punching bag to her, I decided to give her a taste of her own medicine and disown her. Now she can get a dose of her own fucking, power rage trips with two 2 of her 3 kids that don't want to have any thing more to do with her. Ah yes the attachment aspect, the love thing buried under hatred. It seems family ties are often thicker than blood.

                            W.L.
                            • Re: Lost Will

                              Mon, May 19, 2008 - 9:06 AM
                              Hi WL,

                              Glad to see you moving...

                              A brief note on false Will and false feelings and emotions...

                              As a child and adolescent, my mother would at times take a butcher knife and hold it to either my, or my brothers throat, threatening to kill as all (five children) if we didn’t behave and do as she asked... Fear of knives hounded all my life and I was paranoid whenever I’d see a knife waving in someone's hand. I’d go ballistic as I feared for my life.. While those feelings felt very real at the time I was feeling them.. they were false... There was no thread and I wasn’t in any danger, but my imprints, programs and beliefs and my false feelings created the illusionary reality that I was in mortal danger and that I had to either fight, or as I preferred..... run to escape with my life.

                              Since I healed that part of me I’m no longer triggered or activated when I see a person with a knife... Now I respond to the situation instead of re-acting to it... I used the knife experience as it’s more visual.. but the same concept holds true for any other activation we may encounter...

                              John
                              • Re: Lost Will

                                Mon, May 19, 2008 - 7:51 PM
                                Well, John

                                what your addressing as an example of false will, could also be the result of repetitive shock reactions from previously endured trauma.
                                I guess that too can be construed as false will. We people, definitely seem to be creatures of habit. We or rather me,I know that from my early childhood I experienced a fair amount of shit, even from inside my mothers womb. I have no conscious memory of what occurred before the age of 5. Still I am affected from those events and have conditioned me to be fairly self-conscious and imprinted. When your that young I think our minds have a limited ability to grasp or debrief from trying bewildering events.

                                Mentioning about being triggered and using it to move held stuff made me think back to an event where I worked at a job and was harrassed constanly by one man I had to deal with. I was losing sleep literally worrying about how can I keep my job and manage the rest of the time. I didn't approach management about the harrassement, even though they had a harrassement policy. kind of ignorant on my end. I had a fear that the management wouldn't do anything since the man giving me grief was a long standing employee. It would've been best to penetrate that projection to see if it would avail something. I did nothing.
                                Now here was a perfect example of me being triggered to move rage around a situation that was causing me distress. But no I got into the old school train of thought and let my mind be in control to deal with it. Here I thought I was doing myself justice to protect my eroding self-esteem,respect, given my options.
                                Well, one day the man called me a dummy out of the blue and the next thing i knew it almost seemed like an enitiy took control of me and said lets give that man a licking. Part of me in my head rationalized, to quit. But my ego or pride said to me that would be admitting defeat. So I would have none of that. Mind still in control. Then I was awash in the turmoil of trying to to focus on my job task at hand and could not get focused to do anything. In that state I went over to where that man was mopping the floor and started punching him. i punched him so well that i broke my fist from the impact of his safety glasses. The consequences for doing so, being fired, being hostpitalized & time to heal, being charged with assault just before X-mas ( That fucking time of year again). To my astonishment the charges were later dropped.

                                Here was a great opportunity to be triggered to move held stuff, but I didn't want to trust my Will here. My judgement, thought processes,wil triump! I insisted on being a creature of habit, sttuborn and bone headedness. I know from previous experience that when I am able to move emotion around a trying event that is beyond my control, things turn out in a win for me. I was better off quiting too. I hated that job, I thought the good pay made it worth while. What an erroenious belief that was.
                                I really am tiring from trying to gain approval from others from upholding this typical stereo typed societal view of up holding the masculine, old school way.
                                John, your not laughing are you?

                                What me, my own worst enemy? Never !

                                W.L.
                                • Re: Lost Will

                                  Mon, May 19, 2008 - 8:47 PM
                                  Hi WL,

                                  I wasn’t laughing but your last sentence... “John, your not laughing are you?” made me smile...

                                  Those experiences with the knives I had were ones that I had conscious memory of when I was younger and still at home, but once I left home, I forgot those memories, but that didn’t stop me from being unconsciously triggered whenever I saw someone handling a knife.

                                  You stated.... “When your that young I think our minds have a limited ability to grasp or debrief from trying bewildering events.” and you are correct as it’s doubt, disbelief and the SHOCK that what we are experiencing is really happening to us...

                                  But the real kicker is that we are either prevented, or we shut ourselves down in fear of making things worse... from expressing our real feelings and emotions. This is our original cause of denying our personal Will, that then becomes our lost Will as we have negated and deemed her wrong and don’t want to feel her and them again... and when that happens, both our mind and Will become imprinted and programmed by the experience.

                                  How quickly our personal Will “fragments” and becomes personal lost Will depends on the situation as to how traumatic the experience is or how often it’s repeated to the point that we even lose conscious awareness of the experience and then claim (with a sense of self righteousness) that we don’t know why we have such and such an issue or are triggered by this or that... and we blame the activators... other people, places or things as being the problem..

                                  I also was affected by events while in the womb, in fact I came into this life experience when my father and mother were having sex and I was conceived...

                                  John
                                  • Unsu...
                                     

                                    Re: Lost Will

                                    Tue, May 20, 2008 - 6:29 AM
                                    You two feel like squatters here. as far as I'm concerned, neither of you iis really welcome here, yet here you are chatting away like you're not really doing what you're doing. shenreed you have your own website. why dont you have this conversation there and W.L. why don't you go join there if Shenreed is your new guru? I am the host of this website and both of you are sitting here aligned in common hatred of me chatting away like you're suddenly really good pals as if that unloving alignment is not what its really about. Talk about denial.

                                    Shenreed, you are criticizing me on the sly here and you and I both know its because you don't have the balls or the integrity or the spine to peddle your lies to me so you do it to someone who will listen. you know well that there is no truth or substance to them, so you don't dare to give them to me, but you will come after susceptible W.L. and whisper your lies in his ears, won't you?

                                    where you said that some people are only drawn to RUoW to fuck with the process of others, and I know as well as you do that you are trying to imply that that is me as well as judging me wrong for asking for boundaries. Why because you have an interest in overridding others? To me it seems more likely that its you who is drawn to RUOW for that reason if that's going to be your schtick. Your reasoning about triggers doesn't hold water. i am not numb to my universe. I am a feeling person and I don't need "help" from schmuck's like you. clean up your act or get the fuck out. You are not in your right place here. You have your own website where you can school people who are interested and i am sick of watching you try to school people who aren't or even one's who are for that matter. If they want your stuff, they can go there.

                                    W.L. You should really not ignore or shove aside your initial feelings telling you to be cautious and set boundaries with Shenreed. Do you know what you're agreeing to here? I know you and I have a major beef right now, but letting soemone eat your Will alive isn't exactly a good way to get even.

                                    • Re: Lost Will

                                      Tue, May 20, 2008 - 5:54 PM
                                      Nathan. what gives you the right to speak for everyone else here on this tribe group to say that Shenreed and myself aren't welcome? It seems some people here still miss Luanna , Repulsive Troll and someone gave her the boot because they were in control & didn't like what she had to say.
                                      Did you start this RuoW group or did Seive?

                                      Funny Nathan that you mention boundaries here today, because I was going to comment on that from Shenreeds post a day or two ago. I've already expressed my displeasure with your comments about that from the thread I created where you decided to change the tone to your want. I wanted to rip your fucking head off as you triggered me. Too bad I didn't use that trigger to move blaming rage.

                                      It seems alot of people here have issues with Shenreed and I have projected judgements onto him as well. What about that real arrogant character Excaliber ? Do you like his tone, energy? Or are we equally glad to be rid of him?

                                      I happen to really appreciate Shenreeds post from a couple days ago and think its quite sound in my judgement about the triggering aspect.

                                      So Nathan, are people here not allowed to agree to disagree here ? I guess you spurting off the way you do doesn't allow much allowance for Free Will now, does it ?

                                      Go ahead and remove me from this tribe because I am not going to be what you want me to be in order to do or be right with you and Mr. fucking down under hemishere, Rob. In a way I really wish you would then, i wouldn't be squandering so much time with this addictive babbling of sorts on this tribe. Nathan if we were ever to meet up face to face, I'd love to tear you a new asshole !

                                      Wonderious Loon

                                      • Unsu...
                                         

                                        Re: Lost Will

                                        Tue, May 20, 2008 - 8:47 PM
                                        I was only speaking for myself and stating how I feel.

                                        all that is required of you to be here is that you have intent to heal and are willing to move your part of the gap.

                                        Where is the healing intent in what you have said here? I see you saying you want to rip my head off and tearing down and destroying. I want you to stop it right NOW.

                                        If you want to leave, its your responsibiliy to move back. I am only trying to give you a chance to show that you really do want to heal this gap, that you're willing to move and feel your part of it. If you're not, then go of your own accord. I'd prefer if you'd stick around and try to heal it, but I can't make you do what i want you to do.


                                      • Unsu...
                                         

                                        Re: Lost Will

                                        Wed, May 21, 2008 - 10:52 AM
                                        "Nathan if we were ever to meet up face to face, I'd love to tear you a new asshole !"

                                        you'd do no such thing, and if you tried it, you'd be lucky to get out of it alive.
                                        • Re: Wills Rage imprinting

                                          Thu, May 22, 2008 - 10:53 AM
                                          R.U.O.W. Book 7 Page 74

                                          An Old Rage Speaks now
                                          (Mothers story of rage imprinting)

                                          To be understood the way they need to be understood and changed the way they need to be changes, the mindless, nearly consciousless place where they formed needs to be gone into and re-experienced.

                                          The rage that left Me there, so early on that I did not even know it was Me, did not let ME know it was Me. It was polarized away from me because it did not like My feelings there. It hated them and hated Me, in fact, and was not going to get involved. It need to move from its old position, and I need to move from Mt old position. I am going to let rage move however it needs to move emotionally and say whatever it needs to say, even if it raves and sense has to be made of it later.

                                          I had this rage originally, but I was afraid of rage and how it felt there. It had hatred, domination, revenge and power in min, and I wanted to go past that in the name of love and working things out. This rage has never allowed anything to be worked out, until I was sure it didn’t want to do that.

                                          Rage originally did all the things I felt it was too unloving to do to denied heart sons and daughters, only it also did them to My sons and daughters with a vengeful hatred that had no love or compassion for them that I could see.

                                          ....... I hated and feared you all from the beginning and did not want you to have any place to exist, but I was afraid to move against you because you had more strength and power than I did.

                                          Page 79 You shoved Me down into My terror and as long as I stayed huddled in it, far away from you and quiet,well then, you’d only terrorize Me further for occasional sport, but if I ever rose up in rage, well, you’d have Me killed for that by your rage, which you said you didn’t have! You said you didn’t have terror, either, And no heartbreak! What did you have, only the nice feelings?

                                          I found out that you have been feeding on terror without letting US know you were doing it or how you were doing it. At first, I staggered at the idea! It couldn’t be true! You only said you hated terror.

                                          Page 80 Whenever My rage cooled down, I had fear and doubt come up around the validity of its point of view. That is how We originally began Our polorization there. Without even noticing it, I went away from it and it from Me.

                                          The light’s first response to Me was rage. I imprinted Spirit as rage and that I was not supposed to question IT or bother It. I was much too frightened about Mt survival to think, to understand or even notice that this might not be correct. I moved according to My fear of It then, and not according to My own feelings, My survival became based on pleasing It.

                                          My rage questioned that, and I denied My rage. My rage frightened Me too much by saying that Spirit was loveless, and that it wasn’t going to let anything like that dominate or be in control if it could help it. I couldn’t face that possibility then. I preferred to try to not displease Spirit and took it all on Myself. I was the cause of His rage, just like He said. I denied My rage and tried not to trigger his.

                                          Shenreed
                                          • Re: Spirits and Wills denied rage Imprinting

                                            Thu, May 22, 2008 - 10:56 AM
                                            I haven’t got all the pieces yet, but I’m beginning to get a clearer picture of all the Rage that is going on in this tribe...

                                            In a previous post .... Re: Rage and the Psychopathic Killer Tue, May 20, 2008 - 6:44 AM tribes.tribe.net/lostwillf...6ba6e8666c I mentioned the psychopathic Killer and I know that he was the first to break off, (fragment) from God and went out on a energy wave of hatred, to strike whatever was moving and bothering God, which happened to be the Mother beginning to stir in her consciousness. She repelled the Psychopathic killer, but not before some of his light penetrated her (the Will). The Will’s rage wanted to strike back, but because the Mother was barely conscious, had doubts and was confused, she denied her rage.. So now this psychopathic Killers light attached itself to the Wills denied rage (reversed polarity) and then began directing and controlling the Will’s denied rage...

                                            When the Psychopathic Killer was thrown back by the Mother, it reversed itself and then struck God (Spirit) mind and in rolling over him, it imprinted him. And being that it was now of reversed polarity, this light imprinted Spirits “unconscious intent” rage with its (reversed polarity) and imprinted it as denied rage..

                                            Originally, Spirits (unconscious intent) rage was to go out and get rid of whatever felt threatening or was an annoyance...(sending out) The Wills (unconscious intent) rage was to defend against taking in or being attacked by anything threatening (receiving)...

                                            After the imprinting by the Psychopathic Killer.. Spirits denied rage attacks any Will that moves that is not in alignment with its denials..

                                            Will is afraid (in terror) of denied rage and so her denied rage turns on her and blames her movement of her feelings and emotions as being the cause of Spirits rage and attack on her...

                                            Thanks again Daisy, Seive, Nathan, WL and the others for sharing as you did. I’ve understood Spirits denied anger and rage for a while, but I never got as clear a picture of how Wills denied anger and rage worked until now.. Not that I understand everything involved.. but I have more pieces of the puzzle than I had before..

                                            Shenreed
                                            • Re: Spirits and Wills denied rage Imprinting

                                              Fri, May 23, 2008 - 12:21 PM
                                              My impression from reading the Yellow book was that when the Mother first became aware of rage's presence with her, it was already infused with psychopathic killer energy and was the essence most damaged by the strikes. So that her first awareness of it was as an overbearing, threatening presence that wanted to dominate her and make her do its bidding, which was primarily to get revenge on the light for what it had done.

                                              When the Mother didn't like how this rage presence felt and did not align with its agenda, it hated her for that. I guess you could say she denied it, but as the Yellow book says, had she aligned with its hateful agenda, her feeling is that things would have been so much worse than they already turned out to be.

                                              My feeling is there was no way she could have accepted it, expressed it, or followed its lead without creating further damage. She needed loving light's help to evolve the rage, which she didn't have at the time, and still doesn't have in many places where those original imprinting experiences are repeating and reverberating throughout her (our) essence...
                                              • Re: Spirits and Wills denied rage Imprinting

                                                Fri, May 23, 2008 - 12:24 PM
                                                Beautiful, Tracy. This feels good.

                                                Love,
                                                Daisy
                                                • Re: Spirits and Wills denied rage Imprinting

                                                  Fri, May 23, 2008 - 2:09 PM
                                                  Hi Tracy,

                                                  Got your name right this time:)

                                                  Thanks for sharing... I’d like to say that this type of dialogue is what will lead to healing and understand our emotions... Using the books and our personal experiences to expand our consciousness.

                                                  Yes you’re right.. I think I found the text you are referring to...

                                                  ***************************************************************
                                                  Yellow Book Heart Song Page 168

                                                  I know that it was not possible for Me to do other than I did because I had no Yang side with which to do it, and I know that by the time rage got there, it was already too late to strike back at the first strike of the light. I know that this rage has tried to recreate the original situation, hoping that, knowing what it knew, recreating or re-enacting the original situation would have allowed it to take over My place. I know that this rage has been setting Me up to die at the hands of this light, and I know that the light in this rage is the light of Lucifer.

                                                  For a long time, I thought I was not in the avante garde, but now I know that is is alright. I also know that no matter how berated I have felt for not being able to receive this light, as it turns out, it is alright that I wasn’t able to receive it. It was bad enough being penetrated by it as much as I was. The rage, which turned on Me and tried to fill me with self-hatred, did receive this light.

                                                  When this loveless light initially struck Me, how stupid was I not to have opened to receive it, when even so, it penetrated Me more than I wanted?

                                                  It can be argued that perhaps this light would not have become the psychopathic killer or Lucifer if I had received it, but My point is I already didn’t like the way it felt as it approached Me.
                                                  ****************************************************************

                                                  The Mother didn’t like this rage within her that contained unloving (reversed polarity) light. And when she was too broken to resist it, or it was activated, it would leave her and attack Spirit and try to prove that it was right.... What was going out was “unloving light” attacking “Loving Light”... (this is where the reversed polarity comes in) But having said that.... There was also the Mothers real rage that was pushing back... not at God (Loving Light) but at the unloving light of Lucifer and the psychopathic killer... that wanted to kill the her.

                                                  Shenreed
                                                  • Re: Spirits and Wills denied rage Imprinting

                                                    Fri, May 23, 2008 - 2:10 PM
                                                    Hi again Tracy,

                                                    I decided to do two posts because of what I’m about to say...

                                                    Now I know that what I’m going to say may activate you and Daisy and maybe others, but I need to say it. So if you or anyone else doesn’t want to be activated... stop reading now.

                                                    From my personal experience, I feel that “as above so below” is a good metaphor as what happened in original cause is what I’m living in this physical life time by experiencing some of the same things that Spirit, Will, Heart, and Body experienced and felt. Like being struck by unloving light when I was too young and lacked consciousness or the physical ability to throw it off or to choose otherwise, which set me up to fragment and be imprinted in the same manner as original cause. Going through life.. no not life.. existence.. trying to survive as best I could.. trying to constantly please the devil... but never succeeding...

                                                    As God is healing and recovering lost Will and essence, so too I’m healing my Personal Lost Will and recovering my lost essence... By that I mean, I had to heal what was done to me as a child. I had to go back and not re-create the situation, but to allow all parts of me to go back and let go of the unloving light that I had taken in as a child and in the process, reclaim my lost essence.

                                                    My Spirit (Mind) had to let go of its imprinted hated (and denial) it had for those parts of me that had Loving Light that wanted to move to express itself to say that there were also parts that of us that were lost and that had taken in unloving light that needed to be healed... But my Spirit (MIND) was blaming the Loving parts of me as being the problem and the parts that were holding the unloving light (my denied rage) as being loving... Fucked up to say the least.... (Imprinting and reversed polarity)

                                                    This was all part and parcel of both my Spirits and Will’s imprinting that I had to see for what it was, in order to move though my activation, to see the situation as it really was, and not according to my imprints, programs and beliefs.. When I did that, it lead to begin to heal my issues and recover my personal lost Will and essence.

                                                    Shenreed
                                                    • Unsu...
                                                       

                                                      Re: Spirits and Wills denied rage Imprinting

                                                      Fri, May 23, 2008 - 3:02 PM
                                                      Hi Shenreed,

                                                      i hope its okay for me to interject here. It is wonderfully refreshing to hear you share your personal experiences of coming out of denial and insights gained from them here rather than putting your focus solely on telling others where they are in denial as you have seemed to in the past, and I relate to them very much. I am not sure why you feel it would necessarily activate others what you are saying here. Personally what you and Tracy both are sharing here feels like crucial insight into the healing process and I appreciate it a lot and hope it can contiinue in this vein.

                                                      Is there something else you are not saying regarding your speciffic conclusions about what has been happening on this website?
                                                      • Re: Spirits and Wills denied rage Imprinting

                                                        Fri, May 23, 2008 - 4:20 PM
                                                        Hi Nathan,

                                                        Welcome back to the real world! :)

                                                        I’ve been sharing my personal experiences and insights for years, trouble is that whenever I do, it’s either the messenger they don’t like, or the message I share, or the way in which I present the message and that’s because they are already activated and re-acting to their imprints.... I can’t possible share 18+ years of experience with everyone I come in contact with and neither can I deny myself just to please others that are in denial, and either unconscious or conscious of it... or may become activated by what I say... Anyone wanting to know about me or my journey and experiences need only click on my bio and link to my websites and blogs...

                                                        It was interesting to witness what was happening here and for whatever reason, I was compelled to post as I did... maybe now it’s “right time” and people are ready to let go of their denied rage points-of-view long enough to see another option.

                                                        While I’ve posted some of my points-of-view, they haven’t been that specific, as each person involved has been activated into their issues while activated others into theirs... But that is exactly what was needed to get things moving.... even if it was denied rage, terror and heartbreak.... as that also meant that the real emotions were also beginning to move...

                                                        It will now be interesting to see where it goes from here as each of you will have to face what you have been afraid to look at, if healing is your intent... Since I had that new awareness of Spirits and Wills denied rage by seeing it unfold in this tribe, I had basically made the decision to sit back and see what else comes up that I need to see and feel... I’m not going to get involved in your processes, unless you specifically ask me what it is that you are not seeing... or are afraid to see and feel.

                                                        Part of the healing process is in doing your homework and in figuring it out for yourself... You need to feel and experience in order to understand and know... and unless you know the who, what, where, when, why and how.. it’s all a mental game and not real healing... I feel there has been a shift in this group, and I must say.... I like what I feel...

                                                        Wow! This is another first for me... I must say that this is the first time I’m.... choosing to leave... not the right words... I feel.. Humm this is hard to put into words... It’s not that I don’t care... ahhh! It’s like seeing a butterfly emerge from a chrysalis and begin to unfold its wings... getting ready for the next stage of its life... and I’m a witness to a miracle, a “new life” form... Thank you all for being a part of it and in sharing it with me...

                                                        Shenreed
                                                        "Healing begins in the Heart"
                                                        • Unsu...
                                                           

                                                          Re: Spirits and Wills denied rage Imprinting

                                                          Wed, May 28, 2008 - 5:52 AM
                                                          "I’m not going to get involved in your processes, unless you specifically ask me what it is that you are not seeing... or are afraid to see and feel."

                                                          That's a relief.

                                                          • Re: Spirits and Wills denied rage Imprinting

                                                            Thu, June 5, 2008 - 7:55 AM
                                                            R.U.O.W. Book 5 Heart Song

                                                            Page ii ..... This book is about healing the gap, and what has to happen to heal the gap is a lot, but the most important thing is to get Heart presence in there, and by that I do not mean sending in the Heart that already exists as a healer, I mean finding lost Heart essence in the place where you think it is least likely to be; in the gap.

                                                            Easier said than done, but a necessary part of healing, because without more love, there is no hope.

                                                            People have long said that love and hatred are close together, but what can be done with the passion of hatred since it is hatred that fills the gap and hatred means there is such polarization into viewpoints that there is no meeting ground, and thus, no Heart?

                                                            Page iii .... These frozen points of view have a gap in the middle, which is why they cannot find a connection point, and this gap has been there so long that there is no memory of any other way......

                                                            Without moving the underlying emotion, the polarization of these charges cannot be changed......

                                                            Without moving the feelings underneath all of this, it is not possible to notice the similarities in opposing points of view. Moving blaming rage in the most harmless way possible, which means with yourself as much as possible rather than with the ones you feel so sure are to blame, is an important step.

                                                            When you cannot argue anymore without realizing that everything you say about the ones you blame can also be found true about you, you are ready to realize that moving the emotional charge around these issues is the most important thing you can do.

                                                            If you want to furiously exclaim that you are nothing like the people you hate, go for it! Let your rage rip in private! Go into the “glories” of self-righteousness until you find your self-hatred.

                                                            "Food for thought"

                                                            Shenreed
                                                            • Re: Spirits and Wills denied rage Imprinting

                                                              Thu, June 5, 2008 - 8:28 AM
                                                              I’d like to share a personal experience that is related to my healing my denied anger and rage and issues and the need to move it in private, in the form you feel you need to.

                                                              In early 1997, I began working with R.U.O.W and I also met a young woman named Jen that also began working with R.U.O.W. We began helping each other work on healing our emotions and issues and on healing my inner and later, my outer child. With Jen’s help, I began doing regressions during which I had deep emotional and physical releases but it wasn’t until the fall of 1997 that I began working on healing my anger and rage.

                                                              I had been working on my issues with my mother and the bullies at school and I was feeling a lot of pent-up anger and rage building up in me, so much so, that I felt like I was going to explode and was doing so at Jen, who I perceived to be the problem. Jen was feeling my denied anger and rage and suggested that I just go and release it by smashing a pumpkin. I thought her crazy for suggesting that, but I also trusted her guidance. Being late autumn, I went to the local market and picked up one of the bigger pumpkins that was about 18 inches (45 cm) high and maybe 20 inches (50 cm) wide.

                                                              I took the pumpkin and set it in the vegetable garden that I had at the back of my property and then I went and got my baseball bat. I returned to the pumpkin and rested the end of the bat on the top of pumpkin thinking this is silly and stupid as I don't have any anger. Jen had told me to think of all the times when I was angry but couldn't express it. I flashed back to grade school and how the kids used to pick on me and beat me up right from day one. I flashed to my mother and wanting to hit her. I flashed to other times of being threatened and harassed. My mind began to race. I could feel my anger beginning to rise and I just kept adding fuel to the fire. I picked up the bat and had it poised over my right shoulder. The thoughts and feelings of anger and rage were now flashing through me like lightening and then suddenly I felt my anger and rage ready to lash out and I let it go. I swung the bat with all the force I had within me.

                                                              The first strike shattered the pumpkin into a million pieces and buried the bat deep into the garden soil. I couldn't believe it! All that was left of the pumpkin was a piece around the stalk, a little bigger that the size of a coffee cup. The rest had exploded in an orange pulp that encircled me in a good fifteen foot (five meter) radius. My shoes were covered in pumpkin pulp as were the front of my pants and shirt. The biggest pieces, that I later found, of the entire pumpkin, were five pieces of shell about the size of a quarter (2 cm), the pumpkin had just disintegrated.

                                                              I pulled the bat out of the ground, took a deep breath, refocused and took another swing at the remaining piece. The second blow shattered that piece, burying the bat even deeper into the ground than on the first strike. That was it! Two strikes and the pumpkin was gone. I was shocked at the power I had unleashed. I also felt lighter and freer and felt that a huge weight had been lifted off of me. I also remember crying after the second blow and just standing there in the middle of the garden with the bat still resting in my right hand and the other end of the bat buried in the Earth.

                                                              I didn't cry much but there were tears and a silent feeling of release and relief. I felt better afterwards, but I also had guilt over destroying the pumpkin. I went back to the house, changed my clothes and slept for a few hours.

                                                              What I just described is what I feel was my first emotional / physical release of my anger and rage, that was brought on and triggered as a result of doing my inner and outer child work. It was not "the" healing experience, but rather another step in healing. Healing my anger and rage was to be a lengthy and evolving process. During the next few years, I would also be going through numerous regressions with both emotional and physical releases including anger and rage, although none as dramatic as the pumpkin experience until the one that I had in January of 2005, where I was to experience expressing my true anger and rage in love, and in the moment. That experience was totally the opposite of what I had experienced whenever I had expressed my denied rage.

                                                              Shenreed,
                                                              • Re: Rage burning itself out

                                                                Wed, June 11, 2008 - 7:52 AM
                                                                After I wrote my post to Nathan in the "Wanting a New Moderator" thread tribes.tribe.net/lostwillf...72b8b534b3 ...... I left my computer and went to my bedroom to lay down for a minute. That was when I felt how rage can’t be transformed, but that it needs to burn itself out. The only thing that propels or fuels it is denial and hatred, hatred for self and hatred for others. It continues to express itself until there is no longer any fuel for it. Once denial and hatred are ended, it has no more fuel, no energy as that’s the only thing that gives it life.

                                                                I then flashed to R.U.O.W. Book 1 Page 73-74 where Lucifer had brought the hot dry raging cosmic wind of destructive anger to Earth. How it had destroyed an entire universe and how Lucifer had brought it to Earth to let it rage and burn itself out. Lucifer also knew that the only way he could re-energize this rage was to dense up earth by increasing the presence of denial....

                                                                Shenreed
                                                                • Unsu...
                                                                   

                                                                  Re: Rage burning itself out

                                                                  Wed, June 11, 2008 - 10:57 AM
                                                                  I find this kind of sharing to be much more productive and feel supportive of it.

                                                                  • Unsu...
                                                                     

                                                                    Re: Rage baiting

                                                                    Thu, June 12, 2008 - 1:01 AM
                                                                    I have been pondering on the indigo book, specifically where it talks about how the purple girl used to bait Indigo Mother's rage in a predatorial way... and then when she would attack her with the rage, the purple daughter girl would use it as an indictment against her to prove her unlovingness and to discredit her in front of everyone. I take this to mean that if the Indigo Mother had been given acceptance here instead of being judged and tormented by the gap that no one was acknoledging they had and they were basically trying to pin on her and give her the blame for, she would have been able to move the rage in loving acceptance, would not likely have hurt anyone with it. it would have instead moved to its right place in purple and the other "cool' colors who were able to look and act so uninvolved with this passionate fury and disown it as having nothing to do with them, but their held and hidden rage in the gap was using this to take Her down there, it just wasn't moving as rage... it was operating as calculating coldness and subtle predatorial behavior that they've all perfected so well. what I take from it is that this rage needs to go back where it belongs and move as the rage it really is with the people it really belongs to. they fear ever having to take responsibility for and actually having to feel their rage, but they must feel it, heal it and take responsibility for what it is doing now and it must balance in the heart to stop what's happening to creation which is that its being destroyed and consumed by the denied light.
                                  • Re: Rage and the Psychopathic Killer

                                    Tue, May 20, 2008 - 6:44 AM

                                    I was having my second cup of coffee this morning and I was thinking of all the RAGE and denied anger that is being expressed on the RUoW tribe and how it was attacking anything that moved. I was reminded of the hot dry wind (R.U.O.W. book 1 page 74) that the Dark Wizard (Lucifer) had brought to Earth and was in control of that had destroyed it’s own universe. That hot dry wind is the Psychopathic Killer.

                                    I then flashed to the black holes in space and how anything that is near it is being sucked in and consumed by them... and my thoughts were that this was also the work of the psychopathic Killer as it’s now trying to consume this universe... bit by bit... Next I flashed to the atomic bomb and the splitting of the atom to create a hot dry wind and another version of the psychopathic killer.

                                    I then thought of how rage and denied anger just wants to pound on and kill anything that has set it off... That it continues to burn and smolder and is just waiting for something to move, to fan it to explode in fury... Blinded by it own light and justifying its hatred by insisting that it was right and that it was the one being attacked is a re-play of original cause...

                                    There is no talking to this light as it’s running on imprints.. cold heartless imprinting.. and anyone that tries to justify it or says it can be healed with love and understanding is Luciferian light, trying to add to the present denials upon which he feeds... (R.U.O.W. book 7 Imprinting Page Page 140 - end)

                                    I made a distinction between (imprinted) rage and denied anger and rage... Denied anger and rage can’t be healed, but the Luciferian light that our anger and rage is holding can be released and moved to its right place. There’s a difference in the rage that attacks because it’s imprinting is being stirred, and anger and rage that will not allow love essence to be attacked and destroyed..

                                    Shenreed
                                    • Re: Rage and the Psychopathic Killer

                                      Tue, May 20, 2008 - 9:28 AM
                                      This is a projection. There is no other way to see it.
                                      • Re: Rage and the Psychopathic Killer

                                        Tue, May 20, 2008 - 10:58 AM
                                        Hi Daisy,

                                        I'm open to other points of view.... BUT to do that.... I need to know what they are..

                                        Simply saying >>>”This is a projection. There is no other way to see it.”<<< is a general and vague comment.. much like saying there is weather... it says nothing specific...

                                        Do you care to enlighten me and other readers by expanding your point-of-view?

                                        *****************************************************************
                                        As a side note... I had made changes to the last paragraph of my previous post, using the tribes text editor and then later realized that I had used the wrong word... The one sentence that reads.....

                                        >>>>”Denied anger and rage can’t be healed, but the Luciferian light that our anger and rage is holding can be released and moved to its right place.”<<<

                                        should have been this...
                                        >>>>”Denied anger and rage can’t be healed, unless the Luciferian light that our anger and rage is holding can be released and moved to its right place.”<<<

                                        Shenreed
                                    • Unsu...
                                       

                                      Re: Rage and the Psychopathic Killer

                                      Tue, May 20, 2008 - 12:53 PM
                                      Shenreed,

                                      I agree with all you're saying here, and I'm really glad you can make these distinctions. The problem is, you're attempting to using subtle smoke and mirrors to make it look like this is all me. You are much more involved in perpetrating this light than you think. An overall picture has formed for me in our history that is basically impossible to ignore as far as I'm concerned, but ignore it, you have.

                                      "There’s a difference in the rage that attacks because it’s imprinting is being stirred, and anger and rage that will not allow love essence to be attacked and destroyed."

                                      BINGO


                                      • Re: Rages Imprinting

                                        Tue, May 20, 2008 - 5:26 PM
                                        Rages Imprinting

                                        R.U.O.W. Book 7 - Imprinting - Page 153

                                        “Because I thought rage was first, rage had accorded itself the parental position without my even knowing it. This was further bolstered by the imprint that it was the only one that knew anything and no one else did. It hated me for not letting it have free rein and hated My other emotions for not getting out of its way and letting it happen the way it was meant to. This is rages’s imprinting, and it has not moved much since it broke loose and got out there without Me.”

                                        “Trapped in its own imprinting that says it is the only one who knows anything, it has to be its own idea that it should move. Being pointed out by others does not make it feel like cooperating there. It has to go away in private so that it does not even have to admit that it is moving at first. It has fear underneath that it might have to get off its old position if it moves much of this rage, which runs it into a circle, back to its old imprinting that says it can’t be wrong and so on.”

                                        “Many times rage has preferred to discredit the input rather than risk feeling it might be exposed as wrong. It has little conscious mind there to help it understand that it is not a matter of right or wrong anymore. It has been defensive that it has been sifting all input according to whether it thinks it is going to come out looking right or wrong in the end, instead of looking at the input.”

                                        Shenreed
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              Re: Rage

              Fri, December 26, 2008 - 8:02 PM
              Have you seen the movie called the Killing of John Lennon? I watched it a few weeks ago.

              does it actually say that John Lennon's killer was his rage fragment? It certainly could be the case... however what I remember it saying was simply that when J.L. made his apology about the Jesus comment guilt began to gain the power to take his life.

              In my mind this guilt actually took the form of secret shadow government nazi shit that used mental hospital inmates for mind-controlled assasins... programmed to kill speciffic targets. George Bush Sr. was the head of the CIA during the seventies and J.L. was a major enemy of the U.S. gov. The events of recent history wars, globalization and such, would probably not have been possible had he not been possible without getting him out of the way... Just look what a figure like Bob marley did for his country... majorly changed it.

              Anyway from the way it was portrayed in the movie, its obvious to me that MDC really did NOT want to kill John Lennon, but that his rage was used by the nazi-cia psychic surgeons as an unstoppable and controlled instrument. Lucifer has always been adept at directing gapped rage the way he wants it directed and using it to shut down/stomp out what he wants shut down stomped out.

              It is a very, very, sad deal.

              What's even sadder is that this poor wretched piece of fragmentation is even now still rotting in solitary confinement after over 25 years.

              fucking unthinkable. Just unthinkable.
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: Rage

                Sat, December 27, 2008 - 1:28 PM
                I haven't watched the movie and I don't know about secret shadow govt's but I once saw a show with John Lennon singing and playing guitar in the sixties that gave such deeply profound feelings of loss. He was a beacon of light for the people, and with his death a powerful voice for freedom was lost and his killing feels diabolical, as though intented to destroy the cohesion people had with his voice and message. These types of murders feel very damaging to me, increasing hopelessness and despair everywhere.
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: Rage

                Sun, December 28, 2008 - 1:33 PM
                I am reading in Earth Spell today about John Lennon and saw this: "The beloved Dr. Martin Luther King denied his own feelings of rage, hatred and violence until one of his own lost Will rage fragments killed him. The same is true of John Lennon." It also says "Dr. Martin Luther King was some of the denied Will essence of Jesus that was left on Earth when Jesus ascended because he had essence that embraced Jesus' belief that it was not right to meet violence with violence." So King was denied Will essence who himself was murdered by even further denied Will essence. I wonder if this is also true for Lennon.
      • Re: Rage

        Tue, April 3, 2007 - 5:02 PM
        Hi all.

        I once nearly got run off a RUOW discussion group for daring to suggest there were different kinds of rage. So, I'm glad to hear this being articulated here now. I felt there was a difference between rage that feels closed and mostly like hatred that wants to punish or destroy - that I now associate more with spirit qualities...denial light...and rage that feels open and warmer, and feels like it contains hurt and pain of injustice in it. It seemed there was a big difference between, say, Spirit's rage striking as psychokiller...and Mother's blowing the Ancient Ones back like leaves on the wind when they were not allowing Her Her place...(I wonder how they, the Ancient Ones affected then, have processed that by now). There was a line from the New Heart site that called this latter something like, "anger as the voice that speaks to injustice against the self." It seemed important for me to understand what was moving in me...closed punishing hatred propping up some denial...or compressed hurt and fear expressing as rage, and this question came up in me when my process gave me to encounter rage that couldn't seem to receive loving light or evolve upon "moving." I had to figure out what was wrong, when I had never had this problem with rage moving into love before.

        After tears of gratitude and wonder upon starting these books, rage was the next thing that came up, and it was pretty easy to allow it movement. I'd had plenty of examples growing up, and I went through predictable years of letting fly with it around others (usually people I loved and trusted not to either smack or abandon me for it), and I was very hurtful at times and used rage to polarize away from anything that felt like compromise, and gap past troublesome ambivalences, complexities, contradictions within myself, etc. If I err now, it's on the side of witholding rage...and there have been soooooooo many times I was glad afterwards, I had gone and done it privately, when I then saw later how something worked out. Although...on a couple of occassions, rage was necessary to move back or wake up someone around me who was frozen, and pushing in on me from that place.

        As far as being on the receiving end of rage, I appreciated what Barry said earlier about it not being rage that is the problem, but falsehood. I am a Will Heart part with a focus of experience in Body...that makes falsehood especially painful. Body knows how to vibrate rage to clear it out...I know how to clear out a bark from a passing pick-up truck or a phone being slammed down...but Body can't vibrate falsehood, it really lodges as pain. So what is most deadly for me, is when rage comes at me all embedded with falsehoods, because then I'm stuck with something that could be vibrated out, but is tangled up with something not vibrateable by bodily clearance. Takes a LOT more work, time and energy, to clear out that mess, which looks like black pancakes thrown at me adhering to my skin/within my magnetic field. The books made it sound simpler to release such things than I've found it to be...I'm interested to hear of others' experiences around this.

        Thanks.
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Rage

          Tue, April 3, 2007 - 5:09 PM
          I'm glad you decided to comment here, Southpaw. Your post has given me much to think about. Thank you.
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Rage

            Tue, April 3, 2007 - 6:00 PM
            And me as well. Falsehood is the most infuriating thing to me, one of my biggest triggers, so I know what you mean about it being so difficult to clear out. Especially if it is fed by my own self doubt. Thank you Southpaw, I am going to give this a lot of thought.

            Heartbroken
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: Rage

              Tue, April 3, 2007 - 6:26 PM
              Can you say more about that Southpaw? I absolutely hate it when I feel that people are being phony or false, and it hurts me more than anything when someone rages at me and shoves their falsity into me. I feel like I have no defenses against it sometimes, which has forced me to isolate myself and avoid people, even those I love. I would love to hear how you work on healing that.

              Barry
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: Rage

                Tue, April 3, 2007 - 6:29 PM
                Does this feel like luciferian twists of unloving light to you, truth mixed with manipulation and falsity? I guess I'm trying to identify exactly what it feels like to you, because maybe I am confusing this experience with UL light that feeds my self hatred and self doubt.
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: Rage

                  Tue, April 3, 2007 - 6:30 PM
                  I would like to know the difference between the two, so I can know or learn how to heal it.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Rage

                    Wed, April 4, 2007 - 10:05 AM
                    Yes, Barry, I can say more about it...a little later...I gotta go to my death-march job right now. I'm not sure I'm the one to ask about how I heal this...I have a lot of trouble in the areas I'm talking about, and I was more looking for suggestions myself. But I can talk about the bits I do understand. For now, when I speak of falsehood, I'm not talking so much of people being phony. I don't like it, but I usually just see it for what it is and move away without getting too jammed about it. I'm more talking about false blame, being attributed fault that is either not mine, or is not really fault. The dynamic would be like if I stayed late at work every night to finish my work, and then my boss berated me for leaving early and not doing my work...I mean just complete gaps in the reality of the situation. THAT'S NOT FAIR! kind of stuff. But there's more to say about all that. But I better go. My boss does rib me for being late...but that's true...I've never been on time to that job a day in my life.

                    Later...
                    • Unsu...
                       

                      Re: Rage

                      Wed, April 4, 2007 - 5:06 PM
                      Southpaw,

                      Ahhh, I know what you mean now. I was talking to an ex awhile back who was accusing me of doing things that were completely against my character and it was baffling to me that he could ever think that of me, turned out he was doing some major projection and secretly doing the things he accused me of. He and I were on different planes of reality. Yeah, that's a hard one to take. It seems like there is no reasoning with that energy, it just accuses and judges even more when you try to explain and tells you who you are, I just drop it and walk away, and drop the person out of my life if it's too intense. It still feels awful, and takes awhile to shake out and recover, I know what you mean.
                      • Re: Rage

                        Tue, July 3, 2007 - 7:07 AM
                        Hi
                        I'd like to share what I have experienced and come to discover and understand about rage. There are two sides to rage, loving rage and denied rage. Denied rage has a infinite number of ways to express itself in the same way that conditional love expresses itself, from being almost unconditional love to being pure hatred and evol (love reversed). Loving rage is like unconditional love as there is only one state of being.

                        I'd like to expand on what Southpaw said in the quote from the "New Heart" website as this quote is our REAL anger and RAGE that is loving and unconditional. Here is the quote: "anger as the voice that speaks to injustice against the self."

                        What I have experienced is that when we hear that loving voice of anger and rage telling us not to be a hypocrite, not to deny our intuition and feelings, to tell it like it is, to tell the truth, to speak up, Our mind is ignorant and confused and is "trying to be nice, kind, loving, caring, sharing, understanding and all that other phoney stuff that is "learned behaviour and not love, self-love. As the Spirit (Mind) doesn't allow the other parts of itself to express themselves, it also has no acceptance for it's real anger and rage to express itself and so it too is denied. The result is that now the person becomes anger.. not at themselves for being an unloving hypocrite to themselves, but this anger and rage is re-directed outwardly at some other person place or thing that is activating them.

                        Our real anger and rage is there to protect us from harm... (period) Keyword.. PROTECT... and is totally different than denied rage where the key word is ATTACK... Our rage is our last defence against unloving light and it will only show itself when Spirit (mind) has over-ridden its Will (intuition and feelings) and Heart and has backed them down to the root or survival chakra. Unfortunately, because we are unaware of the "unseen role of denial" we twist and reverse this anger and rage energy from being one that protects us to one that attacks others...

                        The amazing thing that happens when you stop being in denial is that the other person (if they continue with their denials) will now see you as unloving and evol. Why? It's because you are now doing the reverse of what you were doing before. Before you were in denial like they were and everything was fine. Now that you are loving yourself, you are no longer aligned with unloving light and your energy will feel different and "unloving to them" and THEY will be the ones running away from you and not wanting anything to do with you.

                        JR
                        • Unsu...
                           

                          Re: Rage

                          Tue, July 3, 2007 - 6:42 PM
                          Very cool John, looks like You have studyed Your lessons well : )

                          Love Forever
                          • Re: Rage

                            Wed, July 4, 2007 - 6:40 AM
                            Hi Luannabee,

                            Your definition of lesson and mine may be different. I don't consider the healing I have done a lesson, in that it was something that I had to "learn" and have taught to me by some teacher that had understanding that I didn't. What I discovered and learned wasn't taught to me... I had to explore and struggle my way through no-mans land that everyone tried to tell me was not the way to go. While I had help from the R.U.O.W. books and from the tools that I had discovered along the way, I had to, and still am, putting the pieces together myself.

                            I often use the analogy of riding a bike to describe my journey, While people may have a concept of what a bike is, they still have to learn how to assemble it (without instructions) then teach themselves how to ride it. They may "talk the talk" of balance, movement, flow and freedom, etc. but they are just empty words with a mental understanding of the concept of riding a bike. They have no clue as to what riding a bike is really "feels" like.

                            John
        • Re: Rage

          Thu, February 7, 2008 - 7:52 PM
          Hello South Paw.

          Your feed back got me to look at my experiences of being on the receiving end of someone else's blaming rage. Feeling totally overwhelmed and not knowing how to take care of myself when that happens. I think my birth mother is a rage fragment ot the Mother. Early upbringing was a real bitch to endure.
          • auX
            auX
            offline 0

            Re: Rage

            Fri, February 8, 2008 - 11:25 PM
            there are different types of rages for sure, the spirit polarity generally denies it has rage, usually they say they only have love while they kill in their state of denied rage and so today life has become what we on this earth now experience with the denied rage polarity in absolute control, rage in the will polarity mostly is triggered by a desire to protect heartache, the will uses its rage for defense of immense and unbearable pain, the spirit polarity uses its rage as an offensive tool for power and control.
        • Re: Rage

          Sat, February 9, 2008 - 7:44 AM
          When you address falsehood here Southpaw. You mean that in the context of someone raging on you, your not the cause of their rage,but perhaps you've triggered it, being on the receiving end of it.

          I have to wonder about the state of the Heart Spirits role in all of this. I get the impression I/we have been the dumping ground for other spirits excess emotional baggage, all the way back to the Godhead for quite sometime. Was it our imprinting, lack of self acceptance or the reflection Lost Will has to give, the continuing of the smack from unloving light.
          Perhaps one might conclude that this sort of rationalization is from the positioning of victim? This in turn makes me feel okay I don't want to be in victim and accept my causal role in this mess,therefore do I not allow myself to feel the hurt, woundeness from these experiences; As I would wish to feel strong in coming to terms with this.
          • Re: Rage

            Fri, June 20, 2008 - 6:46 AM
            Dear Wond..,
            Was just reading through this thread and felt to say that at the time of the Original Smacking and Imprinting Original Cause alieviated a shift in consciousness away from...all that had been lost..

            the original smack left the Essence behind that had been denied and frozen in contempt, that was then undenied and frozen in some...that causes some to come forward in victim form and create further smacks to out the original essence.

            thus attracting the original raging in a new form. ie parents, friends, lovers etc..

            Ill tell Southpaw that youve written to her here..

            regards and love
            U
  • Re: Rage

    Thu, February 26, 2009 - 6:52 PM
    the source that sent RUOW...
    it was in pain, begging for the help of the creation, did others notice that
    ?

    it's the only form of divinity that said "this is My Gap, this is how I got it there, and really...here's what to do."

    but it was gapped.
    i KNOW loving rage is true power, as sure as i know that rage without love is what takes us "where we do not want to go,"
    i know that and it makes me feel better....

    the Source of RUOW DEFINITELY and DESPERATELY wants us all to be happy, and it is the source of all our emotional past "baggage" and showed us what it was going through. trust me, it suffers as we suffer with the Gap, and with unlovingness.

    that person unsubscribed...

    those are some hot books.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Rage

      Wed, March 4, 2009 - 12:27 AM
      mikal,

      it feels good to me what you are saying here.

      just exactly what i need to hear.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Rage

        Wed, March 4, 2009 - 12:39 AM
        i'm so used to thinking of it the other way... that God needs to help me. I am alwasy feeling like I am the one who is desperate and begging for God's help.

        Its like what you're saying turns the whole thing on its head....

        As though its God IN me, begging me for my own help... pleading with me to find some way to bridge with that deep core place of hurt, pain and heartbreak where God really is.

        I just hope I am up to the task.

        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Rage

          Sun, March 8, 2009 - 4:11 AM
          Though on the flip side of it I have experienced the books as being pretty harsh. The God in the books that speaks to me often seems to sound very much like the old Testament God. Loving one minute, harsh and intolerably cruel and punitive the next. Like "I have acceptance for you, but oh by the way, I can't continue to let you live the way you are."

          Statements such as these have made me extremely neurotic at times in regards to 'what I am denying'... which really at bottom seems not all that helpful and feels like something that only compounds my problems and my suffering. That is my major complaint with RUoW. Other than that, yeah, I agree with what you're saying, and I guess by recognizing that tendency to interpret the books in this neurotic sort of way, I have been able to sort of dispense with the pattern somewhat, but I am STILL... ANGRY... that it fucked me up as bad as it did for as long as it did, and that it still fucks me up as MUCH as it does....

          Anyway, at bottom, underneath it all in my heart of hearts.... I think I have pretty much arrived at the place of recognizing that God had/has loving intent here and trust that there is a reason why the information had to be brought through in this way even though my mind can't fully grasp it at this time, it still makes sense to me on a certain level.... that of grokking I suppose. It all just needs movement.... The easiest thing to recognize. the hardest thing to do.

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