Hi Skott

topic posted Sun, November 12, 2006 - 6:48 AM by  Sardonyx
Thanks for joining. I sent you an email answering some things you said in your blog; but I thought I'd reiterate them here to save them for "the group". I think you are very closely aligned with what I'm trying to create here.

PAGAN SANCTUARY:

One long term goal would be to bring paganism and a respect for nature together, (and a joy of being in and part of nature); to the advancement of both. Its of course true that most pagans are eco-friendly, and you even have people like Starhawk out there being all activist and stuff, to the benefit of the Earth. But where I'm coming from, is an understanding that the Christian MYTHOS includes a belief that Man has a mission to subjugate Nature. "You shall name all living things, etc". I dont see that as being such a DEEP part of Pagan thinking; and it isnt being advanced as it might be. We are at a turning point in history, and I believe there is a deep wellspring of desire across humanity to reconnect with the Nature that we are losing. And to tap that; we can be emphasizing the respect for, and reconstruction of; Nature. Sorta like a pagan Sierra Club. The most obvious way in which to do this, would be to create a string of pagan sanctuaries across the world (just as Christians have churches); which would be sort of like national (or local) parks, but where we could modify Nature in such a way as to emphasize its sacredness. (I know this sounds a little self-contradictory, but bear with me).

With unlimited funds, one could of course lay out temples, meditation sites (I'm thinking marble benches covered in moss next to waterfalls, etc) campsites and more fixed accommodations, stone circles, you name it. I particularly liked your idea of a tree-of-life temple complex. Maybe you could write some more about that here. But of course, no-one has unlimited funds. I originally had this idea because I was walking in the redwoods, and wanted to sit down for a bit, but of course the park authorities dont build seats. Probably some college-graduate administrator decided it would be against policy. From that seat idea, I envisioned stone benches built into the side of the cut; and as my brain wanders - to building small shrines with the sources of springs jutting from them; tidying up the junctions of streams (sacred to Hecate), and so on. Allowing people to wander off trails to a thousand spots made slightly more special by a small amount of management, even replanting with natives.

All clothing optional of course, in order to get the full connection with the earth. It really makes a huge difference. Stream beds could be expanded at intervals into sandy-bottomed pools, of various depths, perhaps even with low submerged stone benches like jacuzzis.
Sweat lodges scattered about. The idea would be to maximize human interaction with the environment; by making the human element as unobtrusive as possible, enhancing rather than replacing whats there; and by encouraging, not discouraging, humans to get into close contact with it.

There are a few decent sites I know of near San Francisco; which could be linked together, although probably not as neighbouring properties. There is a private nudist beach near San Gregorio thats perfect - with a huge cliff which makes a natural sort of temple, a perfect place for bonfires; perfectly invisible from anywhere except the Ocean, and more or less inaudible also. There is a large cave close by. On the public beach boundary, but late at night that might not be a problem. It would be great to purchase that land, but probably somewhat expensive (although its not building land). This would be close enough to redwood forests nearby that could be also bought.

Of course other sites that might be purchased by a community that is willing to chip in like Christians do; would involve undeveloped hotsprings, (is it possible to create hotsprings? by drilling a deep pipe into a riverbed in the right area?), places on sacred mountains, and so on. It would in some ways be a competition with the Sierra Club to buy these sites; No - because we would be looking after them and more or less preserving them; YES - because we would have open-access and public nudity policies that these people would have problems with. No fencing-off. But most of the second-tier sites arent THAT expensive to buy; as they are generally in non-commercially-valuable land. Of course, buying these places close to places where people live and which therefore have good access, will be more difficult.

This should be done sooner rather than later, as wild places are being taken up by commerce and the hands-off-nature brigade, leaving little of the wild places left to build the kinds of places I have in mind.

There are a few of these being built; but so far, nowhere near enough; nor generally, to my mind, what I'd ideally build. Often there is little to distinguish them from Christian retreat camps, apart from the obvious symbological differences.

What I have in mind, is working with the genius loci (an old idea generally lost unfortunately), rather than simply walking in and building something. Seeing what the site suggests - where the spirits are - and honoring the ones that are there, instead of simply flattening a site and building a generic temple. (although a few temples may not be out of place nearby in less sacred areas of the site).
posted by:
Sardonyx
  • Re: Hi Skott

    Sun, November 12, 2006 - 7:37 AM
    Sradonyx

    The ideas that you have detailed sound wonderful. I compleatly agree that any sort of temple or sactuary would need to be built in harmony with the surrounding nature. SImple shrines or circles need not be huge edifaces when one is among the cathedral like feeling of a forest. Nature herself has created the best temples allready.

    I too am not particularly interested in putting a lot of energy in political efforts. It is indeed true that active politically minded pagan and neo-pagan people do a lot of good work, but it does not really speak to my persoanl skills. For me, healing the planet is a much more personal thing. It comes from how I personally exist with the world around me. Using magick rather than activism to effect change.
    • Re: Hi Skott

      Mon, November 13, 2006 - 6:22 PM
      Funny thing; I think politically; but I shudder at the thought of doing politics.

      I regard political THINKING as very magical. Its the art of charm, of adopting different masks (Whats that word?), or uttering magical words to achieve stunning effects. Thats why I have been thinking about why paganism, and what it can achieve in terms of changing humanities mindset. Although I'm not active enough as a baby-kisser; and far too truthful to be a politician; I find it fun observing the dynamics behind things. Bruno's books on magic were also political treatises. Most of my thinking is simply dismissing approaches that WONT work. But I'm always on the lookout for things that DO work. Magic is when an idea changes the world. Crowley was an artist at this kind of stuff.

      Regarding the pagan sanctuary; I have no problem with a few large temples being built (funding permissible); but these should be in a large clearing. The important part is developing the grounds in line with nature. Developing quiet places, and many of them.
      Even some could be stunning Stonehenge-style places; but again, these would have to be carefully sited. A stonehenge would work well, for example, high in a natural amphitheatre in bare granite regions like the Sierra Nevada. Sort of like the delphic Oracle in Greece, which is wonderfully situated. So maybe I overstated myself; I meant to emphasize the subservience to the environment; working with the spirit of the place, rather than the grandness of the temples. Using rock in rocky regions; wood in wooded regions, etc.

      But definitely, if youre in the redwoods; there may be room for removing a tree here; planting a few new ones there; and clearing some of the worse undergrowth (like poison ivy) and replacing it with more suitable natives; but paving the place, sticking up fences and signs, or erecting a hideous building at that sacred spot would be inappropriate. More appropriate in such a place would be a large stone altar placed in the middle of a ring of trees (redwoods develop these as the old tree dies, and wounger trees sprout from its base - these widen with the years - thousands of years, and some circles are 30 feet across.) With moss planted on the stone.
      • Re: Hi Skott

        Wed, March 21, 2007 - 10:26 AM
        "of adopting different masks (Whats that word?)"

        Remembered it - Glamour.
        • Re: Hi Skott

          Wed, March 21, 2007 - 2:49 PM
          A temple in harmony with nature. I like it.

          You may have to swallow your pride, bide your time, and avoid coming out of the phone booth (notice I didn't say closet) until you have the funds built up to start this kind of thing. And even then you'd want to try starting it either in an area/community that is more friendly to this sort of thing, either that or not put it in the spotlight until you can get some kind of protection for it. The last thing you need is ignorant fundamentalists tearing up the place because of your alternative religious preferences.
          • Re: Hi Skott

            Sat, March 24, 2007 - 12:58 PM
            My first concern is to develop a group which could support such a venture. As it happens, my base camp will be the Bay Area; but I dont live my life worried about what the fundies think. If they attempt to touch the place, they will be arrested and thrown into jail like any other criminals. Fortunately, that kind of thing doesnt happen much anymore. At least outside the mississippi basin.

            If they try other, legal aggressive tactics; like protesting; there are ways of returning the favor until they learn good manners.

            I read a lot in the fluffy bunny books about how to disguise your magical practise; so no christians are offended. This is just part of the reason I dont join a fluffy bunny group. There are two things I take issue with; the victim mentality "keep your head down" which hearkens back to the burning times as the jews keep on harping about the holocaust; the second is the refusal to stand up for whats believed in. Sure there are nutcases out there. But you cant spend your life in fear of them.

            Look at the christains. When were they ever afraid to take a megaphone and yell at the shoppers about being saved?

            In any case; time needs to be bided anyway. But for building up a group and funds - not to hope the fundies will crawl away.
            The democrats tried keeping their heads down - and we got 6 years of republican rule as a result. The rot started with nice-man gore. and continued with nice-man kerry. Being nice doesnt do anything; except defeat yourself.
          • Re: Hi Skott

            Sat, March 24, 2007 - 1:00 PM
            But of course, there is no need to be unpleasant until necessary. Tactics are an important research area. You'd be amazed at what tools are available.
      • Re: Hi Skott

        Sat, March 24, 2007 - 7:16 PM
        Had to respond to the synchronicity here. I was just thinking about the idea of politics as being in a sense magic based on large scale change.

        Magic, as I have gotten to in my thinking, is about moving destiny into correspondence with personal will. Rather than the general trend of allowing will to be subsumed by some overarching construct, one moves into the interstices and creates the lever (metaphorically) with which to move the immediate environment into the province of the individual. However, politics is about moving the general direction of social construction into correspondence with the will of those who are so willing.

        These poems, written by me in the past, have relevance here:

        Power

        What is power?

        Power is a word.

        Power is an idea.

        The Word is power.

        The Idea is power.

        Power is a distribution of energy, wealth, strength:

        Physical, material, mental, metaphysical,

        social.

        Power is that which allows us,

        Or we allow others, to have

        sway over their/our actions, emotions, limitations.

        Power is a rush of air, of water, of electrons,

        of words,

        of weapons, of will

        -- the force behind movement

        or stasis.

        (c) Laurie Corzett/libramoon

        politics

        infinite regression of change and resistance
        multi-rhythmed rhyme
        singing into the winds of change
        to move their vector more in line
        with where we wish to arrive

        (c) Laurie Corzett/libramoon

        -------------------
        "I regard political THINKING as very magical."

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