Are there any studies applying a method of study similar to that in linguistics--the comparative method--to study Middle Eastern Dance?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_method
If so, I'd be interested to see it.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_method
If so, I'd be interested to see it.
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Nashville
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Fri, March 9, 2007 - 4:51 AMDo you mean academic studies using the comparitive method? Also in what way would cognate terms apply to dance? I mean what would equal that base unit of study? Just curious. I haven't studied linquistically, but I think some of the serious research done in the SCA might be considered as using this method.
Interesting idea.
Halleyah -
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Sat, March 10, 2007 - 7:05 PMAnthropological studies with similar movements in place of cognate terms. I'd be interested to see how the movements that different regions have in common relate to any known movements of nomadic tribes through the centuries as well as how they relate to conquest and settlement patterns of those regions. -
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Mon, March 12, 2007 - 4:23 AMSo, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're looking for work that takes the same movement and compares it to other regions/places/cultures that also use that same movement? Hmmmm? Off hand, I don't know of any studies done that way. Although they would be very interesting. Please post if you find any!
Halleyah :) -
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Mon, March 12, 2007 - 5:10 AMIn a nutshell, yes.
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Sat, March 10, 2007 - 12:50 PM...there's barely any academic studies on our dance form to begin with. :(
The closest I can come to is an offhand comparison Dr. Anthony Shay makes in COREOPHOBIA between Arabic writing, esp. calligraphy, and dance. He suggests (as I recall) that the "fluid" nature of the dance moves is related to the similar style of the written language. -
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Sun, March 11, 2007 - 11:11 PMi like that - where can i read it ? -
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Mon, March 12, 2007 - 6:34 PMEr, in COREOPHOBIA:
www.librarything.com/work-info.php
There's links to various online sellers there.
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Wed, March 21, 2007 - 2:57 PMI think it's going to be difficult to make that type of comparative analysis until we get some way of, say, "notating" dances in a way that comparisons can be made meaninful, I think. Or at least that's one way of looking at it. I've spent some of the past couple of years learning Labanotation and using it o analyze different types of martial arts (as well as a couple of other notation systems used to encode movement)--and I seem to recall a website advocating using Labanotation to "write" out alot of ethnic dance styles.
Until we get a body of work that shows dance choreography (I use that in its broadest sense) in some "written" form, it will be difficult to even begin doing a thorough comparison and/or seeing how the various dances have evolved over time (like we can do by analysing written language to do comparison and track a languages evolution).
Here's an introductory webpage for Labanotation:
user.uni-frankfurt.de/~griesb...ANE.HTML
The Dance Notation Bureau primarily uses Labanotation
www.dancenotation.org
Here's the Dance Writing site, which is based on the Sutton Movement Writing system (created by Valerie Sutton who first constructed a type of writing for Sign that did not rely on using graphemes that encode sounds, since Sign Language is a silent language):
www.dancewriting.org/ and the Sutton Movement Writing site:
www.movementwriting.org/
Here's the Benesh (Movement Writing) Institute website:
www.benesh.org/
If anyone has done comparative studies, I would suspect that that scholar is probably using one of these systems of movement writing.
-Jon
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Thu, March 22, 2007 - 1:29 AMHere're a couple of resourcs that may lead you somewhere:
Cross Cultural Dance Resources
www.ccdr.org/
Congress on Research in Dance:
www.cordance.org/ which also publishes the Dance Research Journal (DRJ)
www.cordance.org/DRJ.html
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Mon, May 21, 2007 - 12:23 AMSharon posted her experience with Labanotation:
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You know, there does exist a system of movement notation called Labanotation. It's very complicated and and cumbersome but very precise. When I was in college I actually interpreted a score for a Balanese dance; I had never taken a single class in Balanese dance at the time and yet my movements came out more or less correct, even with all the details of the finger and eye movements. But it took me about a month to learn a 1 minute dance from that score. And writing labanotation is a pretty slow process, but like I said, it's very precise, noting movement, timing, weight, energy and intention.
You can see a tutorial here www.dance.ohio-state.edu/labanlab/ or just search "labanotation" and you'll find several resources on the web.
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from this link:
yogaandtheindigo.tribe.net/thre...61e0b -
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Mon, May 21, 2007 - 4:34 AMThanks.
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Tue, September 11, 2007 - 4:21 PMThis reminds me of an Afro-Cuban dance that looks and has very similar means as a zar. There has to be a connection there. And Romany Trail studies are interesting explorations of this as well, through both music and dance movements. I wonder if we can get Tamra-henna to comment of this. She graduated from UCLA's World Arts and Cultures program and is curently in a Laban program. I'll drop her a message and see. -
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Tue, September 11, 2007 - 7:44 PMOne thing I've noticed looking at maps of the Ottoman Empire is that many of the countries that fall within those boundaries have some form of dance that at least similarities to bellydance. It makes me wonder if that's where the origins lie (with the Ottoman Turks) or if the dance was there first. -
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Tue, September 11, 2007 - 10:00 PMI'm kind of inclined to think elements of the dance were there first, since the Turks themselves came from Central Asia, where the styling is different. They could have influenced it certainly tho.
One other thing of interest - I had studied with Robin Friend in Persian dance, and she mentioned (don't remember where she heard it) that some dance elements in Central Asia did look more like what we think of as 'belly dance' - eg. Near Eastern styling, but were filtered out with more repressive society and religion.
It really is hard to document this stuff without written dance notes, since a style can change within a generation or two, so it's hard to say what it might have looked like over a long period of time.
Many Turks themselves do seem to think of it as more Arabic in origin, tho have nationalistically adopted it as Turkish. Also the the greatest expansion of the Ottoman empire came relativly late, even tho it lasted some time. Professional entertainers were already spread over the region since Roman times. -
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Thu, September 13, 2007 - 7:22 AMI would rely more on video and actual practice/interviews than Labanotation for this style of dance if doing comparative studies. There are so many subtleties that come from different regions and cultures that Labanotation can't quite relay to the reader.... AND as mentioned above it's quite cumbersome and time consuming. -
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Wed, September 19, 2007 - 8:05 AMHey Diana; I am in the Ethnomusicology program at Indiana University, focusing on Dance Ethnography and Performance Studies. This is my first semester, so I have to take the Folklore Colloquy class, which focuses on the history and theories of the disciplines of Folklore and Ethnomusicology. Funny that I should read this post, becasue we are just now talking about comparative studies in Ethnomusicology. From what I gather so far, everything is text based. So, in order to do any kind of comparative studies, there has to be written texts of cognates for the movements of the dance, and well, that doesn't exist yet for our dance form (not *yet* ;-)) ). Once the studies are done, then you can compare them. As Samira pointed out, Labanotation is limited for this kind of dance, and would only be useful if other types of media are not allowed into the fieldwork site. That is a possiblity, as women's dances in the ME are usually not open to the public, unless of course it is an entertainment setting. But if you are doing a zar ritual, let's say, and the people there don't want you to record the dance, you must use Labanotation to record it.
Along that line, I also am taking the Transcription and Analysis class for Ethno students, and I am learning to write sheet music. With the advent of multi-media, this too is becoming an obsolete form of recording music, but is necessary when one is doing compartive studies in music. Oiy, tho, this class is givin me a headache...
Katya
www.katyafaris.com -
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Wed, September 19, 2007 - 10:15 AMThe interesting thing about Laban is it doesn't directly translate into the same movement. The energy will be consistant, but the resulting move can vary quite a bit. Even with this, Laban seems to capture an essense of dancing that although not a great way to record a series of steps gives you a deep insight into the core of the dance form. Video may be our best bet at this point. -
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Mon, September 24, 2007 - 1:20 AMAnother thing to remember about Laban is that the system of notation "Labanotation" and Laban Movement Analysis are actually not the same thing. I am one year into a Laban Movement Analysis certification program and have learned that this is the case. They are actually 2 distinct fields of study with certification programs in each.
An artist friend of mine, sent a video of a movement sequence to a laban notator at Ohio State University and told her that she had a friend (me) studying Laban Movement Analysis who could look at it with her. The notator told her that because I know LMA, not notation, we would see the movement very differently. Sure enough, there were so many things that I would look for that she paid absolutely no attention to.
When Dance Ethnologists use Laban, I believe that they are using the Analysis aspect and are using it to discover the salient characteristics of a form, which they then weave into the cultural, and historical context of the dance. I believe the notation is used more often in actual choreography of professional companies...but that is just an educated guess.
As far as ... "it doesn't work for our dance form"... I don't think that that is the case. The analysis can work with anything. It might take a bit more work because Raqs Sharqi is a bit more subtle in it's movement than say Western concert dance, but the elements are there. I have done analysis on Raqs Sharqi before, and I've seen others notate it.
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Sun, January 13, 2008 - 6:49 AM"But if you are doing a zar ritual, let's say, and the people there don't want you to record the dance, you must use Labanotation to record it."
The very idea of this amuses me on a level that I just can't describe. What, exactly would be the purpose of it? And do you think that if it is written down that it could be reproduced?
~*Spoon*~
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Mon, September 24, 2007 - 1:39 AMOne possible explanation as to why this is so, is because many of the societies that lie within those boundaries have similar religious, social and artistic values. It is important that we remind ourselves that dance is not simply a set of movements that gets handed down through the generations or is disseminated through cultural contact. It is a very real expression of the values and aesthetics of a society.
All the countries in the entire Mediterranean region and the Middle East have had contact with each other for literally thousands of years. I think it is impossible to ever really know who came up with what, especially by looking at the demographics of dances today. There are so many factors that come into play when studying dance. The actual movement is only a part of that study.
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Mon, September 24, 2007 - 1:54 AMMany scholars believe that the origins of the zar lie in Ethiopia and I have seen footage of rituals very similar to the zar from as far east as India.
There are actually a lot of parallels between the zar as it exists in Egypt and the possession dances of the Yoruba people. The Yoruba tradition make up some of the the African roots of Hatian Vodun and the Candemble of Brazil. This doesn't mean that one necessarily stems from the other, but it does underscore similarities in how they view of the spirit world. -
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Mon, September 24, 2007 - 11:15 AMThanks, Tamra-Henna. I love picking your brain about this kind of stuff. =)
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 9:12 AMHey Tamra-Henna, thanks for your thoughtful input :-) There aren't many of us out there in our field in academia, I hope in the future there will be, as there is so much work to be done for us to gain respect.
This week we are touching upon ideas about what exactly is a "text". Recent theories say that not just written words are texts, but Performances are texts. That being said, it will be much easier to use video as text directly, and not just written accounts of performances. This will make our work much easier in Comparative Studies for our dance.
Katya -
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 9:22 PMThat concept of "text" is very interesting and I wholeheartedly agree. Why should a "score" of a performance be somehow more representative of the music or dance than the performance itself?
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Thu, September 27, 2007 - 8:04 AMYes, so much of this theory is just obsolete...yet we have to know where we've been to know where we're going! Next week we have to read an article by Prof. Ruth Stone, who is my first year advisor here at IU, on the usage of video in ethnography. Finally, getting to modern times...lol...
What was your thesis at UCLA? Are you doing your Ph.D. now? I wish I could work with the Fine Arts Dept. here, but they are such ballet snobs, they even put Modern dance in the Kinesiology Dept.! Ugh, I'm so tired of white European male ideas running the show....
K -
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Thu, September 27, 2007 - 2:41 PMKatya, you have hit the nail on the head. This is why I haven't committed to a graduate program. Every dance program is so post modern or ballet oriented that they leave absolutely no respect for ethnic dance. What department are you going through, anthro? -
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Thu, September 27, 2007 - 2:43 PMNevermind, saw your post earlier. Ethnomusicology. Sounds very cool! -
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Sat, September 29, 2007 - 6:05 AMI'm doing Folklore as my minor, but I have an Anthro background, so I am also focusing on the Anthropology of dance, too. I am studying the music, because I want to compare the dance to the music, as Raqs Sharki must completely follow the music. I really do not want to study dance through a Fine Arts program, because let's face it, our dance is not in academia yet, and I do not want to dance their dance. Plus, the kind of job I would wind up with is to teach dance at a university, and I do not want my creativity bound to an institution. The kind of job that I will end up with in my degree is to work for a museum putting on festivals, or, my dream job, to work for UNESCO. They put on the most festivals world wide! I guess you could say it is like helping to preserve aesthetic culture. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Sat, September 29, 2007 - 6:31 AMI've had one folklore course and anthro as a minor (taking an anthro class right now, in fact). I love focusing on that aspect of the dance, and I love workshops that give that sort of background information like Artemis Mourat's and Alexandra King's. Alexandra King teaches at the University of California Santa Barbara. You might be interested in checking this out:
www.music.ucsb.edu/mee/aboutmee.html
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Thu, September 27, 2007 - 11:07 AMThanks for all your input everyone! Interesting reading.
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Re: Comparative Method and Middle Eastern Dance
Sun, November 25, 2007 - 11:44 AMI know I'm coming into this conversation rather late BUT, Diana, have you read Levi-Strauss? Is that where you're question is stemming from? If not, and as someone who is interested in Anthropology and Ethnography, this is a must. It doesn't answer your question however I think would help formulate the foundation, if that makes sense. Anyways, to my knowledge no comparative study as been made cross-culturally within the study of Middle Eastern dance. Perhaps, something you need to lead the charge on? :-)
