I read that article with more than average interest. My husband works in Hawaii and I've been over there to stay with him, so I've seen hula firsthand.

I have to say, some of the similarities between hula and belly dance are quite striking, both in hand gestures (some anyway) and in hip/foot movements. They arose from disparate cultures and world views yet the body moves in very much the same way, regardless of cultural origin.

I would have to say that for Polynesians to automatically assume that there is cultural appropriation and to be insulted perhaps misses the point. I am not denying that it sometimes (or not so sometimes) happens; I am saying that some of what they may view as cultural appropriation is merely parallel cultural dance development, and that is what I perceived the Polynesian dance number in the BDSS show as. It is also what Mr. Copeland has stated it was when interviewed -- not fusion -- but an acknowledgment of the similarities that arose out of disparate cultures.

However, that being said, the idea of cultural appropriation is one that bears pondering.

I wouldn't say as a whole it was unethical. After all, bellydance has also been fused with other dance forms even by some in the culture from which it comes. Some dance is just performance (up for grabs, IMHO) and some have religious significance (not okay). To me it depends on respect--whether the dancer fusing the dance with another respects the culture it originally came from, knows what they are doing, and uses only those dances which are meant to be aesthetically pleasing and not those that have a deeper, religious meaning to those who were doing it first.

"taking a step back you could apply much of the thought process to fusing belly dance, which itself comes from someone else's culture, with other dance forms."

...I don't think so. I pondered responding to her piece, and maybe I should.

To quickly sum up, cause I really need to get to work, I see two problems with applying her commentary to Raqs Sharqi:

1) Raqs Sharqi is the result of a lot of Westernized influence, as Diana touched on. It really is, to my mind, the Elephant in the Room of discourse about the dance -- we treat it as a pure cultural artifact, yet we emulate a form that was built as a modification of a native form for Western and Saudi audiences*. Raqs Sharqi is built on a bedrock of Orentalism**, and it's hard, from me looking at that perspective, to argue for the same level of protection the article you reference asks for with regard to Polynesian dance.

2) As someone with African and Cherokee ancestry, I've seen horrid depictions of artistic forms native to cultures I'm "on a bloodline" with. Yet I've also seen artistic trimuphs in those genres, and beyond them, from people who weren't born, nor raised, in those cultures. To take her commentary to American musical arts means, quite literally , that rock and roll goes away; it's a refinement and fusion of any number of musical forms, most of which were created by African Americans during slavery and immediately after.
I recognize the artistic merits of the movie BIRTH OF A NATION, and decry the racist attitudes it presents -- attitudes that affect me very directly. And I want artistic exploration, in this dance form, to have room to offend, and for those conversations to happen. And I want room for evolution to occur.

As I said in a recent post on my dance blog, APOSTATE (see apostate.raqsstorm.org/ )

"Granted — Badi’a could be said to have pandered to the Saudi and Western tourists in her creation/encouragement of Raqs Sharqi. Does that make what she, and other dancers like Samia Gamal, any less works of art? And if that is art, and worthy as art, given the radical changes from what you see on the early films of raqs to the early post-Badi’a Raqs Sharqi, is that less or more of a change than what came out as ATS from the San Francisco cauldron of Salimpour-influenced technique?"

Does that make sense?



* There's a possibility that, even before the creation of Raqs Sharqi, the earlier forms, such as the early videos show, were themselves the result of Western tourism, aka, evolutionary pressures. But that's just a hypothesis at this point; I've not done nearly enough research into that timeframe.

** In the Saidean tradition.

Just for interests sake, the ame article is being discuss on the Tribal Belly Dance tribe, I thought the discussion there may be of interest to those reading here as well:

tribalbellydance.tribe.net/thre...d673a

Um, i know this thread is a few months old, but i thought i would throw my two cents in to this pot.

For starters, as i mentioned before my knowledge of belly dancing is limited at best, but from my understanding what we recognize as "bellydancing," today in American society is vastly different than what would be considered traditional dance in the Middle East. The same can be said of several types of Polynesian dances today. The closest thing that can come to traditional hula would be kahiko hula, and in my opinion, it still is not very traditional because of the style of the costuming. The style of the typical kahiko costume came out of what the missionaries forced upon the early hawaiians. The bloomers and the voluminous and shape hiding top seem characteristic of what the missionaries wore at the time they made contact with the hawaiians in 1820. But i'm getting off topic. That is kahiko, traditional hula. Auana (sp?) hula is 'modern,' hula and is the more recognized form today. It is set to Western music, (i.e. Don Ho, Elvis,etc.) and has little to do with hawaiian culture and mostly covers subjects of the "little brown gal," who got away, and the general beauty and mystique of the islands, all from the OUTSIDERS point of view. This is typically the hula that defines hawaiian culture, and the one that tourists pay to see.

That being said, there were certain points of the author's article that i had a problem with. She seemed so vehement and insulted on behalf of the polynesians when it came to fusion, i was confused. As i said before, the hula that defines hawaii today is a product of fusing western music and ideals with hawaiian moves. I'm not saying i approve of the process that it happened by, but it is the style to which all hula dancers dance today. And I've also seen and heard of professional tahitian groups experimenting with other dance forms in their shows. So it's okay for polynesians to experiment with their dance forms and culture, but its not okay the other way around?

But let me explain that last comment, i think it is okay to experiment with a dance form, but only if you have trained in that dance form. So if someone wants to combine belly dance and hula, if they have been trained (and i mean TRAINED, not just took one summer course at the local YMCA,) in both those disciplines, then i believe they have earned the right to present their artistic creation to the community.

But back to the article, what i found interesting, and a little funny actually is Naajidah's comment,

"Some Polynesians resent that someone like me, a Haole (white person), has even been taught Hula, especially the Kahiko (ancient and often religious) style of Hula."

First off, as a Kumu explained to me once, Haole is actually the word for VISITOR, not white person. He explained that since he was a hawaiian teaching us his dance in California, he is actually Haole to us. Sadly, this word IS used today as a derogatory word for outsider, though.

Secondly, as a performer for eleven years, i have never once been looked down upon by ANY hawaiian for dancing the dances of their culture. On the contrary, each hawaiian i have told i was a dancer seemed touched that i danced the hula. They see it as an appreciation of their culture, not an appropriation. They are glad that other people outside of their culture take in interest in the beauty of their dance and basically help keep the memory of it alive. It raises awareness of their culture. I have a couple examples to illustrate this point, but this response is long enough as it is.

Now, on the very particular point of fusing belly dance and polynesian, according to one tahitian teacher i have heard, (actually she's my teacher's teacher, so i don't know her name, and i have not heard this from her mouth) belly dance is already IN tahitian dance, and (according to her, not me) they do it better! I don't want to turn this into what's better, and what's not, i just wanted to say, that i don't think tahitian and belly dance are that far off from each other. Someone else made a comment about parallel development, and i feel that is exactly what the case is here. In fact, there is a move my teacher taught us in class, that she says is a tahitian move, but feels more like a belly dance move.... she called it, the shimmy. Now we don't shimmy the hips. If a tahitian, or hula dancer were to shimmy her hips, it would look like she didn't know what she was doing. The way my teacher taught us was to put one foot a step behind, and to shimmy one leg. This is how her instructor taught her to shimmy and we periodically use it our choreography.


Basically, the point I'm trying to make is that i don't think fusion in any type of dance, (aside from sacred or religious dances) is a bad or offensive thing. No 'real' Polynesian i have ever met has ever vocalized a problem with fusion, and have in fact, embraced it.

I personally, am itching to try to fuse styles of polynesian dance with other dance styles. I watch fusers (can i call you that? ^_^ ), in the belly dance community and i think to myself..... aww... i wanna try that! I was recently a student at Cal Poly, and i had the privilege of taking a lecture class called, World Dance and Cultures, and also, Phillipino dance, Raqs Sharqi, and Indian Fusion. For the Indian Fusion class, as a final exam I presented a dance that mixed styles of Hula, Maori, and Kathak. I danced this to a modern Maori song. In another dance concert at Cal Poly, i danced a Tahitian dance to a Daft Punk song. So in my own small way.... I'm fusing.

Another quick thought;

I've seen belly dance fused with Modern, and that seems to be okay...
I've seen Kathak and Bharata Natyam fused with Modern, and that seems to be okay...
I've seen tahitian and hula fused with Modern, and that seems to be okay...

So...... anything fused with something other than modern is.... not okay?...... scratching head....

Dance is becoming a more noticed form of art in this age, especially modernized or fused styles. If art, dance specifically is to move forward and evolve, it must be allowed to breath, move, and experiment. And it is self-righteous attitudes about tradition, (similar to the attitudes of missionaries....) that completely freeze and stunt the growth of dance forms. If dance is not allowed to be experimented with once and awhile, people in the community lose all interest in the form. And it is the interest of the people that keep dance forms alive.


Um.... on another note, does anyone know where i can find a video clip of this, bellynesian, so that i may see for myself? Uh, thank you.

I read that and she put up a good argument but so did Mile's Copeland in his reply to her. She makes some good points but I can't help but agree with Mile's point about the "White man's guilt" thing. Yes, what our ancestors did was evil, but what am I supposed to do about that; I can't wave a magic wand and go back hundreds of years to change the mindset of nearly an entire people and somehow stop whites from being racist and stop the expansion of their imperialism. :P

I'm not going to be very popular here with my opinion. However, I'm tired of biting my tongue. I personally DO have a problem with all this fusion. My first problem is with Egyptian dance, which is dying as I type this. Even in Egypt, where some of the old dancers are trying to preserve it. What is called bellydance nowadays could be just about anything. Ballet, contortionism, jazz, salsa, flamenco, you name it, mixed with *some* bellydance. I've done a LOT of research into this in the library, online, watched more dvds than a person should have to, talked with my students who've had other instruction, etc. I've come to the conclusion that there are VERY few REAL bellydancers left. I don't see the footwork that's a hallmark of Egyptian dance. I don't see the graceful arms. I don't see the moves flowing one into another with ease because the footwork is so very simple at it's base that ALL the moves fit together perfectly.

Now people want to add Polynesian dance into the mix. I say, who cares? I mean, the dance is not authentic now anyways, so what's the difference? We've already insulted Egypt (which is why they had a ban on foreign dancers for a time), so why not everyone else? Besides, it's not like Miles Copeland really gives a *expletive* about bellydance anyways. He's cashing in, so he's happy. In my opinion, he's merely a pimp. But the bellydance community has made a God of this guy. Weird...

I'm so tired of the "we grow or die" argument. Have any other traditional forms of dance died because people left them alone? The only times I've heard that argument was from people who weren't trained in the proper form of the dance. Go figure...

Okay, done venting. Now everyone feel free to tell me how wrong I am. Thanks.

tegan

I am a newbie to bellydance (2 years) and I am just starting my research, but here's what I've picked up so far. Please clarify things for me if they are incorrect, b/c this is all about learning for me:)
Here's the thing:

<"But we're talking about the exchange of dance culture and not the expansion of one racial dominance over another. Unless there was a hostile belly dancer coup that I was not made aware of...">

whomever tells the story-that's the story that's told...

1.Where did our costume come from? Europeans who had been to India wanted to see Middle Eastern female dancers look like the Indian women with their midriff exposed.
2.Didn't more men "bellydance" as well?- a social culture; a social dance. Not after Europeans came. they wanted to see the women ---Objectified---it became money talks-
3. Isn't Egypt part of North East Africa? Isn't "Bellydance" a North African tradition as well as a Middle Eastern tradition since at one point in time Egypt extended into what we now call the Middle East? Why is it that it's only "Africa" if it's sub-Saharan?

<"But here's an interesting question... if race were the issue then who would be at fault for the spread of belly dance into other cultural dance forms? "...>

These movements are as old as time...in every culture; in every race. To take that statement one step further, and I don't even know if I should put this out there but here goes...LIFE originated in Africa/Egypt, so in terms of the dance and culture, maybe some have just not got in touch with it yet. Maybe some dancers are re-connecting with it in a way that compliments the culture (their culture) that developed later?

As a dancer coming up in this time, I understand and agree with teachers/dancers saying
learn the dance as it was and in the purest form that there is for your respective style. My teacher has been dancing for 30 years and newer dancers can't touch the amount of knowledge and expertise most of our experienced dancers/teachers have. I believe we should really develop those skills and keep that at the forefront of our training/teaching/performing.

Having said that...

But also, as a young dancer who has studied another dance style and come from a backround of Caribbean and American culture, I see the opportunity to share myself as That woman(Caribbean-American Bellydancer), sharing my comfort and freedom in being proud/comfortable with myself and my femininity. Is this not what the dance was meant to portray from the beginning? And that makes the dance come full circle for me. The next question would then be: what about establishing proper venues for each? Like spring caravan does? Or in NYC one teacher I know of puts on themed show (i.e. Rock and Roll show, Middle Eastern Jazz) once a month.

There is always going to be culture exchange, especially in this time when we have access to everything on demand. Look at food- top chefs constantly push the envelope for taking tradition and making it new and different. One thing that I think we dancers forget is that they learn the correct and proper way to execute the traditional first, before being able to take elements from each and create something new. ThenI guess the next dilemma is what to call it. Does the word Fusion suffice as a catch-all?

My $.02