Where's the UN now?

topic posted Fri, May 9, 2008 - 11:44 AM by 
Some of the people in this tribe, regularly refer to the UN and international law in order to attack Israel.

UN resolution 1559 called for all militias in Lebanon to be disarmed. That includes Hezbollah.

Hezbollah has rejected this UN resolution.

To quote Nasrallah (from today's Chronicle):

"a declaration of open war. Those who try to arrest us, we will arrest them. Those who shoot at us, we will shoot them. The hand raised against us, we will cut it off."

Hezbollah has shown themselves clearly as an enemy of enemy of peace. They started a war with Israel. Now they've started a coup against their own government.

To those who so staunchly support the UN resolutions when speaking against Israel, where are you now?

Why aren't you screaming to have Hezbollah disarmed?
posted by:
  • "To those who so staunchly support the UN resolutions when speaking against Israel, where are you now?
    Why aren't you screaming to have Hezbollah disarmed?"

    Nobodies screaming but i support this UN resolution...
    Are you willing to support all the UN resolutions on Palestine too or are you just cherry picking?
    • > Are you willing to support all the UN resolutions on Palestine too or are you just cherry picking?

      I think the UN is a great idea, that's failing. If it's incapable or unwilling to enforce it's decrees, then what's the point.

      And I see enforcing declarations against only one-side, is worse than no action at all because it creates a situation with the UN themselves creating injustice. Yes, I do see biased application of laws against only certain groups to be injustice.

      So... I don't support the UN. Not as it is today. But if you do, then you need to equally call for their laws enforced equitably.

      Ignoring the UN, Hezbollah is a danger. They are a threat to stability and peace in the region. They started a war with Israel. Now they're starting a civil war against their government. They absolutely reject peace with their neighbor.

      What do you propose should be done to stop Hezbollah and implement resolution 1559?
  • Adam:

    You don't support the UN. Your just in support of this resolution. If the US had stayed out of the affairs of Lebanon in the past perhaps the people of Lebanon could have solved their own problems by now.

    <Now they've started a coup against their own government. >

    You don't know who started these latest problems but it seems from the reporting I've heard it was government actions. So either give us support for your statement or stop making judgmental statements.
    • Steve4:
      > If the US had stayed out of the affairs of Lebanon in the past perhaps the people of Lebanon could have solved their own problems by now.

      That's a very big _if_. If pigs flew, then maybe we'd all live in peace today.


      > You don't support the UN. Your just in support of this resolution.

      I've already said that while I like the idea of the UN, I think they're failing and useless.

      Resolution or not, Hezbollah is a threat to regional peace and a threat to the sovereignty of Lebanon.

      You're wrong in saying that the government started this conflict. The government of Lebanon declared the Hezbollah private communications network illegal, and a threat to national security. That's within the rights of the government. And Hezbollah responded by taking over the streets and killing people.

      Now, imagine when Israel and the Arab League (including Lebanon) sign a peace treaty with Israel.

      What will Hezbollah's response be then? Will they keep killing Lebanese until they've overthrown the government or the government rejects peace?
      • <That's a very big _if_. If pigs flew, then maybe we'd all live in peace today. >

        Not as big an "if" as 75 years of US interference which has led to years of conflict bordering on civil war.

        <Hezbollah is a threat to regional peace and a threat to the sovereignty of Lebanon. >

        Let's get the facts straight, Hizballah didn't start a war last year. Hizballah, created a border incident, Israel turned it into a war.

        <You're wrong in saying that the government started this conflict. The government of Lebanon declared the Hezbollah private communications network illegal, and a threat to national security. That's within the rights of the government. And Hezbollah responded by taking over the streets and killing people. >

        Not being an expert on Lebanese law I don't know who's actions were proper or improper. But it doesn't sound proper at all. I'm sure all governments would like to shutdown their critics anytime they like. I don't think the government has the right to shutdown a "communications network". Sounds more like an undemocratic government trying to shutdown the opposition.

        <Now, imagine when Israel and the Arab League (including Lebanon) sign a peace treaty with Israel.
        What will Hezbollah's response be then? Will they keep killing Lebanese until they've overthrown the government or the government rejects peace? >

        None of your theoretical arguments are every a starting point for discussion.

        I think what you should imagine is that the politics of Lebanon is a matter for the people of Lebanon and not of the US and Israel.




  • in re the question where's the UN now, i preface with where was the UN then? i refer to its founding 63 years ago..signed 26 june 1945 in san francisco: the charter of the United Nations . . chapter 1 item 7. . "Nothing contained in the present Charter shall authorize the United Nations to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any state or shall require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under the present Charter" . .further on, intervention measures are discussed as verbal denouncements, embargos, blockades, interruption of communications, etc. . . again, between nations, not within a country. . and physical intervention is mentioned in line with relief for victims, not with armed warriors . . the nascent UN's intent was social, political intervention between states, not physical oversight within a state. Now, what is the UN doing now? ..Current action: 2 May 2008 – The Middle East diplomatic Quartet, which includes the United Nations, today expressed its strong support for ongoing Israeli-Palestinian negotiations aimed at reaching a settlement by the end of 2008 that will lead to the establishment of a Palestinian state in West Bank and the Gaza Strip and an end to the long-running conflict. . . Quartet members voiced deep concern at Israel's continued settlement activity and called on the country to freeze all such activity, including natural growth, and to dismantle outposts erected since March 2001. They also called on the Palestinian Authority to fulfill its commitments to fight terrorism and to accelerate measures to rebuild and restructure its security apparatus. Condemning the ongoing rocket attacks from Gaza into southern Israel, and the terrorist attack on a Jerusalem seminary on 6 March, as well as recent Palestinian civilian casualties, the statement called for an end to violence and terror and urged both sides “to take all feasible steps to ensure the protection of affected civilians.” . . Chaired by the Secretary-General other participants were the Russian Foreign Minister, US Secretary of State, High Representative for European Common Foreign & Security Policy, European Commissioner for External Relations, and the Foreign Minister of Slovenia, which currently holds the rotating EU presidency...............the problems in the mid east are complex, convoluted, hot, old, volatile, dangerous to those living there and dangerous to us living here. I really have no deep knowledge of the UN or the Mid East conundrum; the above info is from the UN website, where I went to see if my 45-yr-old memory of the UN mission statement learned in social studies was correct. [good memory, Bev! Now where did you put your keys?] - anyway - of course i have opinions, but if i just shout them in the faces of others and they shout theirs in my face, we end up with ringing ears and spit on our faces at best, or bloody faces and bullet holes at worst. or in the case of mother earth, a big ole nuclear zit to contend with.. the UN, from my understanding, has many flaws, but what do we disparate nations have to talk to each other through without it? but adam, what do YOU think the UN should do right now?
    • y-rnth:
      > but adam, what do YOU think the UN should do right now?

      Let me try an analogy.

      A school teacher is watching over a schoolyard, but has no authority whatsoever to do anything.

      When a fight breaks out, she just shouts from the sidelines "Timmy's guilty, Timmy's guilty."

      This has no real effect other than raising the level of chaos and strife.

      What needs to happen? One of these two things:

      1) The teacher needs to power to break up these kids and impose an appropriate punishment on Timmy for breaking the rules.

      2) The teacher needs to adapt more of a role of a peacemaker, trying to empathize with all sides, and help teach them to live together in harmony.

      Since it doesn't look like (1) is going to happen, then I think the UN really needs to shift their role towards being more of a peacemaker.