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Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

topic posted Fri, July 22, 2011 - 12:49 PM by  أنا Ayah
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Fayyad's summer camp divisions named after terrorists



Such lies!!!





When I went to summer camp, the lower divisions were named after animals (we were called Gurim, Kfirim and Arayot, which were three stages in the life of lions) and then the higher divisions had names that indicated their loftier status (they were called Maalot, which means merits, and Kerem, the CIT unit from which future counselors would be chosen).

'Palestinian' summer camp is a little... different. Even when it's run by the 'moderates' from Fatah.

A Palestinian Authority summer camp for children divided its campers into three groups named after the terrorists Dalal Mughrabi, Salah Khalaf and Abu Ali Mustafa.

Dalal Mughrabi in 1978 led the most lethal terror attack in Israel's history, in which 37 civilians were killed, 12 of them children.
Salah Khalaf (Abu Iyad) was the head of the Black September terror group. He planned many terror attacks including the murder of two American diplomats, as well as the murder of 11 Israeli athletes in the Munich Olympics in 1972.
Abu Ali Mustafa, General Secretary of the terror organization Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP). He planned numerous terror attacks against Israeli civilians during the Palestinian terror campaign ("the Intifada").

A fourth group was named after Yasser Arafat.

The summer camp was held under the auspices of PA Prime Minister Salam Fayyad, who visited the camp to participate in the closing ceremonies, which he also sponsored.

And you think that if they become a state they won't attack us?



israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2011/...d.html


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    offline 8
    So how do you know this isn't true? I happen to know that a lot of Palestinians lionize terrorists
    • yeah I haven't seen anything to actually counter the claims
      • Plenty of examples thereof. Note that all of this is from Palestinian "propaganda" media, and official "propaganda" press releases.. Please feel free to check their sources in my primary source, posted at the end.

        Mahmoud Abbas, PA Chairman, on naming square after Mughrabi:

        "Of course I did not go myself, but I do not deny [the naming]. Of course we want to name
        a square after her.” [Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Jan. 17, 2010]

        Siham Barghouti, PA Minister of Culture, on naming square after Mughrabi:

        "Honoring them in this way [by naming public places after them] is the least we can give
        them, and this is our right." [Al-Ayyam, Jan. 11, 2010]
        Mahmoud Al-Aloul, member of Fatah Central Committee, defending immortalizing
        terrorists:

        "It is important to continue commemorating the memory of the Shahids (Martyrs) and the
        Palestinian acts of heroism, and most importantly the anniversary of the Martyrdom of
        Dalal Mughrabi, heroine of the Coastal Road operation [attack that killed 37], which falls
        on March 11thD Al-Aloul said that Fatah has acted and continues to act to immortalize its
        Shahids (Martyrs) and heroesD He added: 'It is our right and our duty to take pride in all
        of the Shahids (Martyrs), and it is our duty to convey this message in the most direct
        manner to the generations to come.’" [Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Feb. 25, 2010]

        Speaking on behalf of Mahmoud Abbas, about street named after Abu Jihad:

        “In his speech on behalf of the President [Abbas], Tayeb Al-Rahim said: ‘Today we are
        celebrating the inauguration of a street named after the leader Abu Jihad, Prince of the
        ShahidsD He had the honor of introducing the idea of the armed Palestinian struggleD
        We say that the entire [Palestinian] nation has become Abu Jihad, and that our people
        are proud of him. His name has been given to hospitals and schools and centers and
        streets. Abu Jihad did not die; he lives on in our midst. Abu Jihad is the engineer of
        the revolution; the first bullet.” [Emphasis added] [Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, April 21, 2010]

        These terrorists have schools named after them:

        Abu Ali Mustafa - General Secretary of the terror organization “Popular Front for the Liberation
        of Palestine” (PLFP). Planned numerous terror attacks against Israeli civilians during the
        Palestinian terror war (the “Intifada”).
        Abu Iyad (Salah Khalaf) - A founder of Fatah and Head of the “Black September" terror group.
        Attacks he planned included the murder of two American diplomats, as well as the murder of 11
        Israeli athletes in the Munich Olympics in 1972.
        Abu Jihad (Khalil Al-Wazir) - A founder of Fatah and deputy to Yasser Arafat. Headed the
        PLO terror organization’s military wing. Planned many deadly Fatah terror attacks, including the
        worst in Israeli history, the hijacking of a bus and killing of 37 civilians, 12 of them children.
        Ahmad Yassin - The founder of the Hamas movement.
        Dalal Mughrabi - Led the worst terror attack in Israel's history in 1978, when she and other
        terrorists hijacked a bus and killed 37 civilians, 12 of them children.
        Hassan Salameh - Commander of operations of the "Black September" terror group. He
        planned the murder of 11 Israeli athletes in the Munich Olympics in 1972.
        Izz A-Din Al-Qassam - Led a Muslim terror group in British Mandate Palestine. The Hamas
        terror wing is named after him – the “Izz A-Din Al-Qassam Brigades.”
        Kamal Adwan - A senior Fatah leader in the 1960s and 1970s, was in charge of Fatah’s terror
        attacks into Israel and attacks against Israeli targets outside of Israel.
        Osama Al-Najjar - Spokesman of Fatah’s “Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades,” whose suicide terror
        attacks during the recent Palestinian terror war (the “second Intifada”), killed hundreds.
        Saad Sayel - A senior Fatah commander, led the terrorist forces that were based in Lebanon
        during the early 1980s.
        Saddam Hussein - President of Iraq, found guilty of crimes against humanity, was executed by
        a special Iraqi tribunal.
        Shadia Abu Ghazaleh - Among the first Palestinian women terrorists. Participated in blowing
        up an Israeli bus. Died while preparing a bomb.

        These terrorists have streets, buildings and neighborhoods named after them:

        Abu Jihad (Khalil Al-Wazir) - A founder of Fatah and deputy to Yasser Arafat. Headed the
        PLO terror organization’s military wing. Planned many deadly Fatah terror attacks, including the
        worst in Israeli history, the hijacking of a bus and killing of 37 civilians, 12 of them children.
        Abu Iyad (Salah Khalaf) - A founder of Fatah and Head of the “Black September" terror group.
        Attacks he planned included the murder of two American diplomats, as well as the murder of 11
        Israeli athletes in the Munich Olympics in 1972.
        Ali Al-Naamani - Was the first suicide bomber in Iraq. He killed four U.S. soldiers.
        Al-Moayed Bihokmillah Al-Agha - was a suicide terrorist who murdered five in 2004.
        Dalal Mughrabi - Led the worst terror attack in Israel's history in 1978, when she and other
        terrorists hijacked a bus and killed 37 civilians, 12 of them children.
        Saddam Hussein - President of Iraq, found guilty of crimes against humanity, was executed by
        a special Iraqi tribunal.
        Thabet Thabet - A founder of Tanzim (Fatah terror group) responsible for drive-by shooting
        and many other attacks during the recent terror war (the “second Intifada”).
        Yahya Ayyash - First Hamas suicide bomb builder, and seen as founder of Palestinian suicide
        terror. Attacks he launched killed dozens of Israelis, injuring hundreds.

        These terrorists have sports facilities named after them:

        Abu Jihad (Khalil Al-Wazir) - A founder of Fatah and deputy to Yasser Arafat. Headed the
        PLO terror organization’s military wing. Planned many deadly Fatah terror attacks, including the
        worst in Israeli history, the hijacking of a bus and killing of 37 civilians, 12 of them children.
        Abu Iyad (Salah Khalaf) - A founder of Fatah and Head of “Black September.” The terror
        attacks he planned included the murder of two American diplomats as well as the murder of 11
        Israeli athletes in the Munich Olympics in 1972.
        Fathi Shaqaqi - Founder of Islamic Jihad that carried out more than 1,000 terror attacks, killing
        approximately 150 and wounding about 950, including a suicide attack in 2002 that killed 21.
        Jamal Ghanem - Fatah member, involved in terrorist activities for a number of years.
        Rafik A-Salmi - Fatah member involved in terror activities in the 1980s.
        Tareq Al-Qato – Football player and Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade terrorist sniper.

        These terrorists have military units named after them:

        Ahmad Abu Al-Rish - Terrorist involved in attacks against civilians before the Oslo Accords.
        Saddam Hussein - President of Iraq, found guilty of crimes against humanity, was executed by
        a special Iraqi tribunal.
        Wafa Idris - First female Palestinian suicide terrorist. Her suicide attack killed one and
        wounded 100 in 2002.

        These terrorists have sports tournaments and events named after them
        :
        Abdallah Daoud - Responsible for many terror attacks. Was one of the terrorists who stormed
        the Church of the Nativity in 2002, continuing to fight against Israel for several weeks while
        using the monks and the religious site as shields.
        Abd Al-Basset Odeh - Suicide terrorist who murdered 31 and injured 140 at the Passover
        Seder in 2002, known as the “Passover Eve Massacre.”
        Abu Ali Iyad - Fatah military commander. He led terror attacks in the Israeli towns Beit Yosef,
        Margaliot, Manara, and Kfar Giladi.
        Abu Ali Mustafa - General Secretary of the terrorist organization “Popular Front for the
        Liberation of Palestine” [PLFP]. He planned numerous terror attacks against Israeli civilians
        during the recent Palestinian terror war (the “second Intifada”).
        Abu Iyad (Salah Khalaf) - A founder of Fatah and Head of “Black September" terror group.
        Attacks he planned included the murder of two American diplomats as well as the murder of 11
        Israeli athletes in the Munich Olympics in 1972.
        Abu Jihad (Khalil Al-Wazir) - A founder of Fatah and deputy to Yasser Arafat. Headed the
        PLO terror organization’s military wing. Planned many deadly Fatah terror attacks, including the
        worst in Israeli history, the hijacking of a bus and killing of 37 civilians, 12 of them children.
        Baha Sa'id - Terrorist who killed two Israeli soldiers and injured another in an attack in 2000.
        Dalal Mughrabi - Led the worst terror attack in Israel's history in 1978, when she and other
        terrorists hijacked a bus and killed 37 civilians, 12 of them children.
        Fathi Shaqaqi - Founder of Islamic Jihad that carried out more than 1,000 terrorist attacks,
        killing approximately 150 and wounding about 950, including a suicide attack in 2002 that killed
        21.
        Hassan Salameh - Commander of operations of the "Black September" terror group. He
        planned the murder of 11 Israeli athletes in the Munich Olympics in 1972.
        Ibrahim Al-Makadmeh – One of the founders of Hamas's military wing, responsible for
        planning several attacks that killed 28 Israelis.
        Ihab Abu Salim - Was a suicide terrorist who murdered nine and injured 19 in 2003.
        Izz A-Din Al-Qassam - Led a Muslim terror group in British Mandate Palestine. The Hamas
        terror wing is named after him – the “Izz A-Din Al-Qassam Brigades.”
        Jamal Mansour - Leader of Hamas’s political wing and was behind numerous terrorist
        bombings.
        Jihad Al-Amarin - Founder of Fatah suicide terror branch, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades. Was
        responsible for the murder of many Israelis.
        Muhammad Farahat - Was a member of Hamas who killed five students in a terror attack on a
        school in 2002.
        Muhammad Ghassan Liftawi - Was behind suicide bombings and shooting attacks in Israel in
        which many civilians were killed and injured. He was on Israel's list of most-wanted terrorists.
        Mahmoud Marmash - Suicide terrorist who murdered five and injured 74 in 2001.
        Raed Karmi - Head of Fatah’s suicide bombing wing and a local Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade
        commander.
        Saddam Hussein - President of Iraq, found guilty of crimes against humanity, was executed by
        a special Iraqi tribunal.
        Salah Shehadeh - One of the founders and head of the military wing of Hamas in Gaza. Was
        responsible for many terror attacks including attack on a high school that killed five students.
        Samir Kuntar - Was a Lebanese terrorist who murdered four Israelis in 1979, including a child
        whose head he crushed with his rifle after murdering her father in front of her.
        Tareq Abu Safaka - Suicide terrorist who murdered three in 2002.
        Tareq Al-Qato – Footbal player and Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade terrorist sniper.
        Thabet Thabet - A founder of Tanzim (Fatah terror group) responsible for drive-by shooting
        and many other attacks during the recent terror war (the “second Intifada”).
        Yahya Ayyash - First Hamas suicide bomb builder, seen as founder of Palestinian suicide
        terror. Attacks he launched killed dozens of Israelis, injuring hundreds.
        Ziyad Da’as - Fatah-Tanzim commander who planned the Bat Mitzvah attack in 2002 in which
        a terrorist killed six. Also behind the kidnapping and murder of two Israelis in 2001.

        These terrorists have summer camps named after them:

        Ayyat Al-Akhras - 17 year-old suicide terrorist, the youngest Palestinian female suicide
        terrorist. Her bombing killed two Israelis in a Jerusalem supermarket in 2002.
        Azmi A-Sreir - Military commander in Fatah ”Western Sector” terror apparatus in Lebanon in
        the 1970's. Helped prepare the worst terror attack in Israel's history in 1978, when terrorists
        hijacked a bus and killed 37 civilians, 12 of them children, and the attack on the Savoy Hotel in
        Tel Aviv (1975).
        Dalal Mughrabi - Led the worst terror attack in Israel's history in 1978, when she and other
        terrorists hijacked a bus and killed 37 civilians, 12 of them children.
        Jihad Al-Amarin - Founder of Fatah suicide terror branch, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades. Was
        responsible for the murder of many Israelis.
        Raed Karmi - Head of Fatah’s suicide terror wing and a local Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade
        commander.
        Wafa Idris - First female Palestinian suicide terrorist. Her suicide attack killed one and
        wounded 100 in 2002.

        These terrorists have cultural events and ceremonies named after them:

        Abdallah Daoud - Responsible for many terror attacks. Was one of terrorists who stormed the
        Church of the Nativity in 2002, continuing to fight against Israel for several weeks while using
        the monks and the religious site as shields.
        Abu Jihad (Khalil Al-Wazir) - A founder of Fatah and deputy to Yasser Arafat. Headed the
        PLO terror organization’s military wing. Planned many deadly Fatah terror attacks, including the
        worst in Israeli history, the hijacking of a bus and killing of 37 civilians, 12 of them children.
        Dalal Mughrabi - Led the worst terror attack in Israel's history in 1978, when she and other
        terrorists hijacked a bus and killed 37 civilians, 12 of them children.
        Kamal Abu Shehab - Commander in the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade. He planned a number of
        suicide attacks in Tel Aviv.
        Marwan Zalum - Commander in the Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades and senior member of Tanzim
        (Fatah terror group). Was responsible for a number of terror attacks and drove a suicide
        terrorist to Jaffa Street in Jerusalem in 2004.
        Tayseer Abu Shehab - Bomb builder for suicide terrorists in Fatah’s Al-Aqsa Martyrs’
        Brigades.
        Yahya Ayyash - First Hamas suicide bomb builder, and seen as founder of Palestinian suicide
        terror. Attacks he launched killed dozens of Israelis, injuring hundreds.

        These terrorists have courses, groups and educational facilities named after them:

        Abu Iyad (Salah Khalaf) - A founder of Fatah and Head of “Black September" terror group.
        Attacks he planned included the murder of two American diplomats as well as the murder of 11
        Israeli athletes in the Munich Olympics in 1972.
        Abu Jihad (Khalil Al-Wazir) - A founder of Fatah and deputy to Yasser Arafat. Headed the
        PLO terror organization’s military wing. Planned many deadly Fatah terror attacks, including the
        worst in Israeli history, the hijacking of a bus and killing of 37 civilians, 12 of them children.
        Dalal Mughrabi - Led the worst terror attack in Israel's history in 1978, when she and other
        terrorists hijacked a bus and killed 37 civilians, 12 of them children.
        Wafa Idris - First female Palestinian suicide terrorist. Her suicide attack killed one and
        wounded 100 in 2002.
        Yasser Abu Bakr - Member of Fatah terror wing Al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades. Was responsible
        for shooting and suicide attacks killing three, including a 9 month old baby. Abu Bakr was
        sentenced in 2002 to three life sentences.

        These terrorists have informal educational tools named after them:

        Abu Jihad (Khalil Al-Wazir) - A founder of Fatah and deputy to Yasser Arafat. Headed the
        PLO terror organization’s military wing. Planned many deadly Fatah terror attacks, including the
        worst in Israeli history, the hijacking of a bus and killing of 37 civilians, 12 of them children.
        Dalal Mughrabi - Led the worst terror attack in Israel's history in 1978, when she and other
        terrorists hijacked a bus and killed 37 civilians, 12 of them children.
        Hanadi Jaradat - One the first female Palestinian suicide terrorists. Her bomb in a restaurant in
        2003 killed 22 people and injured 51.
        Hassan Salameh - Commander of operations of the "Black September" terror group. He
        planned the murder of 11 Israeli athletes in the Munich Olympics in 1972.
        Izz A-Din Al-Qassam - Led a Muslim terror group in British Mandate Palestine. The Hamas
        terror wing is named after him – the “Izz A-Din Al-Qassam Brigades.”
        Majed Abu Sharar - Was a senior Fatah and PLO terror leader in 1970s.
        Yahya Ayyash - First Hamas suicide bomb builder, and seen as founder of Palestinian suicide
        terror. Attacks he launched killed dozens of Israelis, injuring hundreds.

        Source:

        palwatch.org/STORAGE/spe...al%20Eng.pdf
        • now she wont say anything. watch. she will disapear and that will be that! she says that she does not have any positive feelings about terrorists but will allow her friends to do so no problem. that says something right? i just wish for more reasonable people. people that can be angry with one side but who can also not just be against one side because they are on another. that is childish and deadly. its stupid.and it is counterproductive too! if she wants peace she should work for peace not for just one side. whenever did just one side make peace? its stupid. just stupid. sometimes smart people act stupid and other times stupid people just act stupid. its hard to tell.
      • ---yeah I haven't seen anything to actually counter the claims

        i have noticed this happening a lot. the belief is the most strong base for many peoples arguments here. they believe one thing so then they want to prove it. thats how they operate. she wants to prove that the israelis are just bad so she will just not comment on anything that makes her pet terrorists look bad or the israelis look good. al jazeera does that to. i started reading it but it was so much propaganda. take a story about a famous painting that was in the west bank for a few days. a lot of israelis who are jews did a lot to make this happen but all the story could talk about is how hard it was for the picture to get there because how bad the israelis are. didnt say much of anything about how some israelis and palestinians worked together to make it happen. just like this chick. she doesnt care. when is she going to gaza?
        • Actually, she merely claimed that it was lies, with no supporting evidence. I don't know if it is true or not, but provided numerous examples of similar things, all well sourced. She is the one making a claim. It is up to her to provide evidence in support of her assertion.
          • Crickets.
            • And, I fully expect continued chirping.

              PA’s Summer Camps Glorify Terrorists
              A Fatah-sponsored summer camp has divided its campers into three groups named after terrorists who carried out lethal attacks against Israel
              by Elad Benari
              Published: 30/07/11, INN

              Palestinian Media Watch (PMW), a research institute which monitors the Palestinian Authority-based media, reported on its website that a PA-sponsored children’s summer camp has divided its campers into three groups named after terrorists Dalal Mughrabi, Salah Khalaf and Abu Ali Mustafa.

              Dalal Mughrabi carried out led the most lethal terror attack in Israelis history in 1978. 37 Israeli civilians were killed in that attack, among them 12 children.

              Salah Khalaf (Abu Iyad) was the head of the Black September terror group and was involved in the murder of 11 Israeli athletes in the Munich Olympics in 1972 (an attack which was reportedly funded by current PA President Mahmoud Abbas).

              Abu Ali Mustafa served as General Secretary of the terror organization Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP). He planned numerous terror attacks against Israeli civilians before being killed by the IDF in 2001.

              A fourth group was named after former PA Chairman Yasser Arafat.

              PMW noted that the summer camp was held under the auspices of PA Prime Minister Salam Fayyad, who visited the camp to participate in the closing ceremonies, which he also sponsored.

              The PA daily Al-Ayyam reported about the summer camp, and PMW translated the report and presented it on its website:

              “The head of the Public Relations Department of the Shahid Salah Khalaf Center, Nojoud Daraghmeh, announced the conclusion of the ‘Palestine in the Eyes of the Children of Martyrs (Shahids) Summer Camp’, which took place under the auspices of Prime Minister Salam Fayyad and was organized by the National Association of Families of Palestine's Martyrs. [The summer camp was held] under the supervision of the National Committee of Summer Camps and with the participation of 70 boys and girls, the children and siblings of Martyrs from all [West] Bank districts. The summer camp included numerous activities and events," Al Ayam reported.

              "Participants were divided into four groups, named after leaders and fighters: Martyr (Shahid) President Yasser Arafat, Martyr Commander Salah Khalaf, Martyr Abu Ali Mustafa, and Martyr Dalal Mughrabi. Several senior Palestinian Authority officials visited the summer camp, headed by [PM] Salam Fayyad and Fatah Central Committee members Jamal Muhaisen and Sultan Abu Al-Einein... A closing ceremony at the end of the summer camp was held under the auspices of Fayyad... who gave out awards [to officials involved in the summer camp]," the report added.

              This summer camp is not the first one to bestow honors upon terrorists. Earlier this month, PMW reported about another camp, the “Lion Cubs and Flowers” summer camp, which named one group after Mughrabi, one group after the terrorist leader who masterminded Mughrabi’s attack, and one group after Arafat.

              Abbas has personally been involved in the effort to transform Mughrabi into a role model for PA Arabs. Abbas funded a computer center in 2009 that was named for the terrorist, and in 2010 he sponsored an event to mark what would have been the murderer's 50th birthday.

              In March 2010, even as the PA leader claimed he had cancelled a ceremony to name a public square after Mughrabi, scheduled to take place during a visit to Israel by U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, the celebration was held "unofficially" -- with members of the PA leadership standing in for Abbas instead.
              • i bet that the israelis know this before we do. why would they trust these people? would you?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    After 50 years, President Katsav presents three surviving members with certificates of appreciation at Jerusalem ceremony
                    By Reuters

                    JERUSALEM - After half a century of reticence and recrimination, Israel on Wednesday honored nine Egyptian Jews recruited as agents-provocateur in what became one of the worst intelligence bungles in the country's history.

                    Israel was at war with Egypt when it hatched a plan in 1954 to ruin its rapprochement with the United States and Britain by firebombing sites frequented by foreigners in Cairo and Alexandria.

                    But Israeli hopes the attacks, which caused no casualties, would be blamed on local insurgents collapsed when the young Zionist bombers were caught and confessed at public trials. Two were hanged. The rest served jail terms and emigrated to Israel.

                    Embarrassed before the West, Israel long denied involvement. It kept mum even after its 1979 peace deal
                    with Egypt, fearing memories of the debacle could sour ties.

                    "Although it is still a sensitive situation, we decided now to express our respect for these heroes," President Moshe Katsav said after presenting the three surviving members of the bomber ring with certificates of appreciation at a Jerusalem ceremony.


                    www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/...38,00.html
                    • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                      Mon, August 1, 2011 - 12:06 AM
                      Tu quoque.
                      • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                        Mon, August 1, 2011 - 12:13 AM
                        no, in fact I'm highlighting what people view as a hero, and terrorist, is often subjective
                        • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                          Mon, August 1, 2011 - 4:43 PM
                          ----no, in fact I'm highlighting what people view as a hero, and terrorist, is often subjective

                          is there a school or camp named after them? its about degrees too you know.
                          • .
                            .
                            offline 8

                            Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                            Mon, August 1, 2011 - 8:50 PM
                            its amazing to me when Israeli supporters will back Israel over the US every time, like Tandy.

                            Israel sent agents disguised as Arab terrorists to BOMB AMERICAN TARGETS to influence US foreign policy. How can you defend this?
                            • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                              Mon, August 1, 2011 - 10:10 PM
                              While I agree the behavior is perplexing, and it almost, if not does, reach a level of more concern for Israel, than it does the US(Though the funniest ones are the hardcore rightest who have no idea about the various welfare programs of the Israeli economy, or it's rather fanatical socialist origins), I'm not sure tandy did that. She was just trying, incorrectly i might ad, to differentiate the PA veneration of terrorists with the Israeli state
                              • Unsu...
                                 

                                Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                Tue, August 2, 2011 - 8:30 AM
                                Which of the now native Israelis came from Russian or other the Federated origins, and how well did they succeed early on in the argument over the forming of the ideological direction of their Parliament? They invited from all over.
                                • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                  Tue, August 2, 2011 - 1:36 PM
                                  "Which of the now native Israelis came from Russian or other the Federated origins, and how well did they succeed early on in the argument over the forming of the ideological direction of their Parliament? They invited from all over."

                                  they invited from all over, but it was a European, largely secular movement, that was fueled from the east European pogroms. This is why labor Zionism was so formative to the early genesis of the state
                              • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                Tue, August 2, 2011 - 1:18 PM
                                -------She was just trying, incorrectly i might ad, to differentiate the PA veneration of terrorists with the Israeli state

                                how was it incorrect. are there camps named after terrorists in israel or not?
                                • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                  Tue, August 2, 2011 - 1:27 PM
                                  I just posted information on an entire town named after Stern
                                  • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                    Wed, August 3, 2011 - 7:41 PM
                                    -------I just posted information on an entire town named after Stern

                                    haha. ok. you got one. i see it as a difference in measure. i guess we could talk about how one terrorist is better or worse then another. i dont know much about stern. did he go after civilians too?

                                    -------You really are a piece of work, Tandy.

                                    this is not a dating site. keep the posts about this topic right?

                                    -------I'm here for about 10-20 minutes a day because right now I've got a lot of spare time while I rest and rehabilitate.

                                    you are here for a lot longer than that all the time. that is a lie. but done admit it to me i really do not care if you tell the truth or not.

                                    ---is a defense of Israel,

                                    no it is not but i forgot that you can see into my soul. i am not talking about why israel is better but really about why the palestinians are so corrupt. sure one being better then another really does seem like a defense but i am not meaning to defend them. that is not my intent. but again you will know what i mean. because you are always right.
                                    • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                      Wed, August 3, 2011 - 7:58 PM
                                      "haha. ok. you got one. i see it as a difference in measure. i guess we could talk about how one terrorist is better or worse then another. i dont know much about stern. did he go after civilians too? "

                                      he tried to ally with the Nazi
                                      • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                        Fri, August 5, 2011 - 3:20 PM
                                        ------he tried to ally with the Nazi

                                        when? before he knew what they were up to or after?
                                        • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                          Sat, August 6, 2011 - 5:24 AM
                                          "...he tried to ally with the Nazi."

                                          Maybe I missed it. Do you have a citation for that?
                                          • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                            Sat, August 6, 2011 - 7:29 AM
                                            "Maybe I missed it. Do you have a citation for that?"

                                            lol, how about any basic history book on the subject?

                                            • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                              Sat, August 6, 2011 - 11:18 PM
                                              "lol, how about any basic history book on the subject?"

                                              I'll take that as a "no" then. You ever get one supporting the contention that General Assembly Resolutions are legally binding?
                                              • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                Sun, August 7, 2011 - 1:29 AM
                                                "I'll take that as a "no" then."

                                                no, it's actually me laughing because it's something covered in any basic history on the subject. It's not exactly a debated, or rather unknown issue.


                                                " You ever get one supporting the contention that General Assembly Resolutions are legally binding?"

                                                I think your over looking the unique circumstances concerning the territory, namely that it was being managed through the mandate system.
                                                • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                  Sun, August 7, 2011 - 3:44 AM
                                                  The, it shouldn't be difficult for you to provide a citation.

                                                  "I think your over looking the unique circumstances concerning the territory, namely that it was being managed through the mandate system."

                                                  Even were this claim true, and it is not (you are welcome to provide evidence for it if you can find some) it remains irrelevant. It has been your contention that the GA resolution that envisioned the establishment of the state of Israel is legally binding. You have never provided a citation in support of that position either. You merely keep claiming that it is so. When you make claims of fact, it is your responsibility, as claimant, to provide the evidence in support thereof. You haven't. Can't?
                                                  • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                    Sun, August 7, 2011 - 9:09 AM
                                                    "The, it shouldn't be difficult for you to provide a citation. "

                                                    no, it really isn't


                                                    <<< Stern formed a radical splinter opposition group, known as Lehi, an acronym for “Lohamei Herut Yisrael.” He maintained that, even in the face of the Nazi threat, it was the British who posed the major threat to the Jews; doubting the Allies could win the war, he even advocated an alliance with Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, believing these ties would assist the nationalist effort in Eretz Yisrael.>>>

                                                    www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso...html

                                                    however, such won't stop me from laughing at your lack of basic knowledge


                                                    "Even were this claim true, and it is not "

                                                    the territory wasn't being managed under the mandate system? Erik, do you have absolutely any knowledge of pre-independence Israel?


                                                    " It has been your contention that the GA resolution that envisioned the establishment of the state of Israel is legally binding. "

                                                    1) the territory was clearly under mandate (see Palestine mandate july 24 1922)

                                                    2) the controlling power in this mandate were clearly the British (see above)

                                                    3) the British handed the problem off to the UN (see Bevin's speech on feb 25 1947)

                                                    4) the UN recognized, in their charter, that the mandate system was their problem (see chapter 12 of the charter, specifically article 77)

                                                    5) the UN charter clearly delineates general assembly authority on these matters(see article 85 in the above chapter)
                                                • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                  Sun, August 7, 2011 - 7:57 PM
                                                  --I think your over looking the unique circumstances concerning the territory, namely that it was being managed through the mandate system.

                                                  how does that matter? is there any reason why this means anything?

                                                  -------5) the UN charter clearly delineates general assembly authority on these matters(see article 85 in the above chapter)

                                                  yeah but that does not make anything that they say law does it? they cant tell us what to do here in america right? so why could then anywhere else? its only law if you are governed by it and no one is governed by the un. they had control at one point but that does not make them in control of it now.
                                                  • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                    Sun, August 7, 2011 - 8:43 PM
                                                    "how does that matter? is there any reason why this means anything?"

                                                    because they existed under special circumstances where the general assembly exercised such authority


                                                    "yeah but that does not make anything that they say law does it?"

                                                    Yes


                                                    " they cant tell us what to do here in america right?"

                                                    Because we are a sovereign territory. At the time, Israel was not a sovereign, they were a territory under the authority of the mandate


                                                    "its only law if you are governed by it"

                                                    The territory was governed by the mandate.


                                                    " they had control at one point but that does not make them in control of it now. "

                                                    the UN, under it's clear authority to do so on the matter, established borders. None of this is in question, and the most you can claim is that Israel has ignored those borders. Much like Hezbollah has ignored UN authority to disarm, or like Saddam ignored UN authority on inspections
                                                    • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                      Mon, August 8, 2011 - 12:50 AM
                                                      General Assembly resolutions are not legally binding. Saying otherwise is either simple ignorance of the facts, or a lie. It is the same with advisory rulings by the World Court. Not binding.

                                                      In both cases, they are merely advice. Of course that is why they call World Court rulings "advisory."

                                                      There is good advice and bad advice. Good advice should be heeded. Bad advice should be ignored.

                                                      "Because we are a sovereign territory. At the time, Israel was not a sovereign, they were a territory under the authority of the mandate"

                                                      Irrelevant. Israel exists because they declared their independence, fought for the territory they now hold, and are recognized as a sovereign state by the world community. The Palestinians can try the same thing if they wish. I wish them luck.
                                                      • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                        Mon, August 8, 2011 - 12:54 AM
                                                        "General Assembly resolutions are not legally binding."

                                                        I just covered this in the above links, and even cited the relevant articles of the UN charter. I suggest reading over them, and addressing them

                                                        "Saying otherwise is either simple ignorance of the facts, or a lie. It is the same with advisory rulings by the World Court. Not binding. "

                                                        see above


                                                        "Irrelevant. Israel exists because they declared their independence, fought for the territory they now hold, and are recognized as a sovereign state by the world community. The Palestinians can try the same thing if they wish. I wish them luck. "

                                                        again, we are talking about authority exercised before they became an independent sovereign, and were awarded such rights, and when the UN clearly had the authority to rule on such matters. Just check the citations I provided
                                                    • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                      Mon, August 8, 2011 - 7:03 PM
                                                      -------because they existed under special circumstances where the general assembly exercised such authority

                                                      so what? this is a fact not an argument.

                                                      ------because they existed under special circumstances where the general assembly exercised such authority

                                                      really? so they can tell you what you can do? me? any of us? i dont think so. not at all in fact.

                                                      ----Because we are a sovereign territory. At the time, Israel was not a sovereign, they were a territory under the authority of the mandate

                                                      but they are not now. and what is the west bank does not anymore have anything to do with them either.

                                                      -------The territory was governed by the mandate.

                                                      hahaha. was. right. was.

                                                      -------and the most you can claim is that Israel has ignored those borders.

                                                      so did the palestinians when they disagreeed with the borders. as i read it they did not want the borders either and fought a losing war because they did not agree with them. so i dont understand your point.

                                                      -----Much like Hezbollah has ignored UN authority to disarm, or like Saddam ignored UN authority on inspections

                                                      exactly. they ignored the authority. authority that can only be exercised by force not by law. there is no law as i see it. i think that you want there to be law but i dont see any actual law.

                                                      -----I just covered this in the above links, and even cited the relevant articles of the UN charter. I suggest reading over them, and addressing them

                                                      just because the un says something that does not make it so. hahaha. that is so funny! you think that because the un says something that makes it so? come on!

                                                      ------Which is why I offered citations outlining the mandate authority of the general assembly, which you seem, again, unwilling to address.

                                                      why address it? just because the un says something that means nothing to me. no un cop or judge can tell me to do anything. i am guessing that they cant tell any israeli to do anything either. they have no lawful ability to do antyhing no matter what they say. the un has no authority here. none at all beyond the force that they can use to push their actions. thats it.
                                                      • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                        Mon, August 8, 2011 - 7:20 PM
                                                        "so what? this is a fact not an argument. "

                                                        lol, because the question was "does the UN general assembly have any authority ion the matter. And based on facts like the above, they do...


                                                        "really? so they can tell you what you can do? me? any of us? i dont think so. not at all in fact. "

                                                        because we are not under the mandate system...


                                                        "but they are not now. and what is the west bank does not anymore have anything to do with them either. "

                                                        according to the processes outlined international law, the general assembly set the legally defined borders of the Israeli state. Hence, their expansionist policy outside that territory is Illegal under international law, specifically the 4th Geneva convention and it's articles on territorial expansion via military conquest


                                                        "hahaha. was. right. was"

                                                        I'm not sure what you think that rebuts, but the idea is that the borders were established under international law. Also, acts to expand borders, via military conquest, are in violation of international law. So Israel, operating to expand it's borders, via conquest, even though they do not want to recognize such borders, is in violation of international law


                                                        "so did the palestinians when they disagreeed with the borders."

                                                        right, but that doesn't grant Israel the right to ignore treaties they are party to, or international law.


                                                        "as i read it they did not want the borders either and fought a losing war because they did not agree with them. so i dont understand your point. "

                                                        that the general assembly had authority to establish the borders, and they did.


                                                        "exactly. they ignored the authority. authority that can only be exercised by force not by law. there is no law as i see it. i think that you want there to be law but i dont see any actual law. "

                                                        someone ignoring and breaking a law, is not the same as a law not existing.

                                                        Though i agree that effective enforcement is rather non existent and seems to be applied in a completely arbitrary manner


                                                        "just because the un says something that does not make it so. hahaha. that is so funny! you think that because the un says something that makes it so? come on! "

                                                        Israel is free to withdraw from the organization, and remove themselves from it's contractual obligations


                                                        "why address it? just because the un says something that means nothing to me. no un cop or judge can tell me to do anything"

                                                        right, they don't deal with individuals, they deal with territories and states, like pre independence Israel


                                                        "i am guessing that they cant tell any israeli to do anything either. they have no lawful ability to do antyhing no matter what they say. the un has no authority here. none at all beyond the force that they can use to push their actions. thats it. "

                                                        see the links I provided. They had clear authority, which, coincidentally, was even recognized in the Israeli declaration of independence
                                                        • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                          Mon, August 8, 2011 - 7:41 PM
                                                          --And based on facts like the above, they do...

                                                          you keep saying that but theres nothing more than that. if the un wants to say do this or do that they cannot tell you to do anything right? and since we are talking about another country they cant tell that country anything either no matter how that country started. you are just saying yes they can but you have shown no way that they actually have the right to do so.

                                                          -------because we are not under the mandate system...

                                                          neither are they.

                                                          -------according to the processes outlined international law, the general assembly set the legally defined borders of the Israeli state. Hence, their expansionist policy outside that territory is Illegal under international law,

                                                          but there is no such thing as international law right? there really isnt. there seems to be agreements that some people follow because they want to but thats about it as i see it.

                                                          -----specifically the 4th Geneva convention and it's articles on territorial expansion via military conquest

                                                          ok i read that but there still is no such thing. many countries have agreed to not do this and if the un wanted to they could force the point through military action but thats it. its by agreement thats it. just becuase the un says something that means nothing to me or you. so why should it matter to someone in israel?

                                                          -------but the idea is that the borders were established under international law.

                                                          that was a long time ago. time has gone on. even the un is not saying that they have to go back to the original borders right?

                                                          ------So Israel, operating to expand it's borders, via conquest, even though they do not want to recognize such borders, is in violation of international law

                                                          but again there is not any such thing in reality. it should be called internaitonal agreement not law. i am lawbound to do things here in america because as a citizen i have to do things. i am forced to do things but how can the un tell us anything? or me? or your? or israel? because they set up the borders? so what? that was a long time ago.

                                                          ------right, but that doesn't grant Israel the right to ignore treaties they are party to, or international law.

                                                          no one says that they have a right to do anything like what you are saying. but they have done it so lets deal with the reality on the ground. and to use this nonsense about international law? it really means nothing to anyone i think but you at this point.

                                                          ------that the general assembly had authority to establish the borders, and they did.

                                                          that was a long time ago. there is noone that i know that is saying that israel should go back to those borders. is that what you are saying? some absolute belief that because that is what the un did so long ago that it should matter today? are you really saying that israel should go back to the borders that the un created over sixty years ago?

                                                          -----someone ignoring and breaking a law, is not the same as a law not existing.

                                                          again there is no such thing as this international law. so its really very easy to ignore it.

                                                          ------Israel is free to withdraw from the organization, and remove themselves from it's contractual obligations

                                                          sure but its all by agreement. or the un can kick them out if they are going against the un agreements. but they are still not laws.

                                                          ------right, they don't deal with individuals, they deal with territories and states, like pre independence Israel

                                                          but the citizens of israel are affected by what the un does so in effect they are telling the indiduals what to do. they cant do that. they cant tell the us and all of us citizens of the us what to do about anything. they can ask i guess and they can remind us that we made an agreement but thats about it.

                                                          ------They had clear authority, which, coincidentally, was even recognized in the Israeli declaration of independence

                                                          theres that past tense again. had. had. yes they did. now they dont. time to move on. you are ignoring reality and your whole argument is based on some artificial agreement that really means nothing if both sides dont agree.

                                                          i do appreciate the reasonable discussion. i really do.
                                                          • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                            Mon, August 8, 2011 - 8:03 PM
                                                            "you keep saying that but theres nothing more than that."

                                                            so your argument contrary t mine is that mine is only supported by facts?

                                                            " if the un wants to say do this or do that they cannot tell you to do anything"

                                                            Wrong, the UN general assembly clearly had authority here

                                                            "and since we are talking about another country"

                                                            But we are not. We are talking about a territory that fell under the mandate system, and due to the British giving authority over to the UN, the general assembly


                                                            "you are just saying yes they can but you have shown no way that they actually have the right to do so. "

                                                            you mean besides the evidence I offered, and you yet to address...


                                                            "neither are they."

                                                            they clearly were at the time of this ruling, hence those being the legal borders of the state


                                                            "but there is no such thing as international law right? "

                                                            no, there clearly is


                                                            "ok i read that but there still is no such thing. many countries have agreed to not do this and if the un wanted to they could force the point through military action but thats it. "

                                                            lack of enforcement is not the same as lack of law
                                                            • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                              Mon, August 8, 2011 - 11:50 PM
                                                              "so what? this is a fact not an argument."

                                                              Nope. The General Assembly had no such authority. Claiming they did makes no difference. Even if everybody on Earth claimed a falsehood to be true, it would still be false.

                                                              • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                Mon, August 8, 2011 - 11:53 PM
                                                                "The General Assembly had no such authority"

                                                                except your claim is clearly contradicted by the UN charter
                                                                • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                  Tue, August 9, 2011 - 12:07 AM
                                                                  Belief is not truth.
                                                                  • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                    Tue, August 9, 2011 - 12:09 AM
                                                                    right, and is exactly why you should try to actually address the evidence
                                                                    • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                      Tue, August 9, 2011 - 1:05 AM
                                                                      I've provided you plenty of evidence previously, all of which you refused to address. You just keep claiming the same falsehoods are true. It is no different than the Arabs believing their own propaganda. If you try to reason using false premises, you end up with flawed conclusions. It is why so many people remain such losers, and can't seem to figure out why. Again, you are in good (well not really) company.
                                                                      • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                        Tue, August 9, 2011 - 6:29 AM
                                                                        "I've provided you plenty of evidence previously, all of which you refused to address"

                                                                        really? are you sure you're not jumping through psychological hoops in the hopes to rationalize and come to terms with your behavior here?


                                                                        "You just keep claiming the same falsehoods are true."

                                                                        No, actually I cited UN documents clearly outlining general assembly authority ion the matter


                                                                        " It is no different than the Arabs believing their own propaganda. If you try to reason using false premises, you end up with flawed conclusions. It is why so many people remain such losers, and can't seem to figure out why. Again, you are in good (well not really) company."

                                                                        Yet you can't address the evidence. Odd, this is
                                                                      • .
                                                                        .
                                                                        offline 8

                                                                        Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                        Wed, August 10, 2011 - 11:21 AM
                                                                        Total bullshit, Erik.

                                                                        The British had authority over Palestine, they conferred that authority to the UN, therefore, the UN had the authority. There's nothing you have ever provided that presented any challenge to this understanding, because it doesn't exist. Period.
                                                            • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                              Tue, August 9, 2011 - 2:54 PM
                                                              ------so your argument contrary t mine is that mine is only supported by facts?

                                                              what facts? That they say that they are governing something? theres a far cry from someone sayhing that they can do something from them actually really being able to do it. they have no authority at all. none. the cop next to me has authority. some un guy has none. zero none. and yours or their saying that they do does not make it so.

                                                              -------Wrong, the UN general assembly clearly had authority here

                                                              no they dont. they cant tell you anything. they cant tell me to do anything. they say that they have authority but they dont.

                                                              -------We are talking about a territory that fell under the mandate system, and due to the British giving authority over to the UN, the general assembly

                                                              so what? that was a long time ago. their ability to show any influence is way over.

                                                              -------you mean besides the evidence I offered, and you yet to address...

                                                              again just their saying anything is not actual evidence.

                                                              --------they clearly were at the time of this ruling, hence those being the legal borders of the state

                                                              were. yes were.

                                                              ------no, there clearly is

                                                              no there clearly is not. there are agreements between countries as it seems to me but law? i think that we may get into another argument over what a word means but there is a different law that i have to follow that the cop next to me says and what the un can say to me. i dont agree to comply with the laws of the usa but we do agree to comply to the agreements that we made with the un. its as easy as that. you cant say that its a law if its simply by agreement.

                                                              ---lack of enforcement is not the same as lack of law

                                                              law is the force of governance right? what force of governance does the un have? i dont see any. if we tell the un to screw itself it fucks off. thats not law.

                                                              -------Belief is not truth.

                                                              exactly. because you believe that it is true that does not make it true. they have no authority besides what we let them have. do you have the authority to decide or not to pay your taxes? to follow speed limits? to not crosswalk? no. that is law right? just agreeing to something and only allowing any law that we agree to any any time is not law.

                                                              here is what that link to the un says ----------The General Assembly is not a world government - its resolutions are not legally binding upon Member States.

                                                              so even they say that their resolutions are not legally binding. you now disagree with them? hahaha

                                                              ------Note, we are talking about a decision when the territory was under mandate, and according to the UN charter, under general assembly authority.

                                                              so what? its not under mandate any more. it ceased to be relevant after they lost control of the areas.


                                                              • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                Tue, August 9, 2011 - 3:11 PM
                                                                "what facts?"

                                                                the ones I have been citing


                                                                "That they say that they are governing something? theres a far cry from someone sayhing that they can do something from them actually really being able to do it. they have no authority at all. "

                                                                again, read the documents,. They clearly had the authority, and such was even recognized in Israel's declaration of independence.


                                                                "were. yes were. "

                                                                right, "were", and at a time the official borders were established. So expanding beyond those borders, via war, is a clear violation of the Geneva convention


                                                                "so even they say that their resolutions are not legally binding. you now disagree with them? hahaha"

                                                                Tandy, this was covered in my original post on the matter, and reiterated maybe a dozen times: Focus on the part about "member states" and reflect on the fact that at the time Israel was not a "member state, and according to various treaties and agrements, was under the authority of the mandate system. And that the right to decide on such matters, in regards to mandate states, was clearly deliniated to the general assembly in the UN charter.

                                                                Rather simple and direct


                                                                But look, if you rather simply dismiss the evidence, there is really no point in going back and forth on this

                                                                • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                  Wed, August 10, 2011 - 12:50 AM
                                                                  ----They clearly had the authority

                                                                  had. had? do we have a time machine? is this discussion contingent on a time machine? hahaah

                                                                  -----and such was even recognized in Israel's declaration of independence.

                                                                  still does not mean that they have any kind of authority today

                                                                  ------So expanding beyond those borders, via war, is a clear violation of the Geneva convention

                                                                  yes. but that does not mean international law. the geneva convention as i read it is an agreement between certain countries right? agreement. law in every manner except of course that its only law if the countries agree to agree right?

                                                                  -------Rather simple and direct

                                                                  i understand but i just cant agree that your version of law is at all relevant. its not really law. its agreement. and agreement is not law. i dont agree to pay taxes or not rob people. i dont do it because its illegal. its against the law. if i do it i go to jail. there is a goverment that tells me what i can and can not do and it matters. it does not matter to me one word that the un says. if we choose to laugh at them then we can. there is nothing that they can do because we are their police right? its not law.

                                                                  ----But look, if you rather simply dismiss the evidence, there is really no point in going back and forth on this

                                                                  its not really evidence. that they say that they are some kind of authority or law? thats not evidence. that is just empty statements that they are lucky if someone agrees to it.

                                                                  --it's not just his computer, mine went nuts with that site.

                                                                  mine didnt. that is not a good sign.
                                                                  • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                    Wed, August 10, 2011 - 1:12 AM
                                                                    "yes. but that does not mean international law. the geneva convention as i read it is an agreement between certain countries right? agreement. law in every manner except of course that its only law if the countries agree to agree right? "

                                                                    you are aware Israel is a party to it?


                                                                    "had. had? do we have a time machine? is this discussion contingent on a time machine? hahaah "

                                                                    your rebuttal doesn't really make much sense
                                                                    • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                      Wed, August 10, 2011 - 12:04 PM
                                                                      -----you are aware Israel is a party to it?

                                                                      so what? there is agreement and there is law. when a cop stops you for speeding do you agree to pay the ticket or do you have to pay it? which is it? you agree to pay it or you have to pay it?

                                                                      ------Honestly, I really have no reason to make up such a lie,

                                                                      im not saying that you lied. the opposite in fact when i said thats not a good sign.

                                                                      ---the UN had the authority.

                                                                      yes it sounds like they did before israel became a country.

                                                                      -------Yes, they do have the authority, Tandy, because Israel is NOW a member state, and has agreed to abide by the dictates of the UN.

                                                                      hahaha. yes. they agreed. they agreed. and if they agree to disagree then what will the un do? complain? thats about it unless america wants to go to war with israel. this is by agreement and thats it. thats not law. thats agreement.

                                                                      ------If they choose to refuse to abide by said dictates, they should withdraw from the club, or be kicked out.

                                                                      exactly. if they choose.

                                                                      -------Oh my god. Do we really have to explain social contract theory to you too? Really?

                                                                      oh my god. you are really an unpleasant person. why not go back somewhere else where people are jerks to eachother because we have been having a nice discussion and now you are here being you. take your superior attitude and use it on someone in the kindergarden class next to you. we are enjoying a real discussion.
                                                                      • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                        Wed, August 10, 2011 - 12:47 PM
                                                                        "so what? there is agreement and there is law."

                                                                        they openly agree to abide by these practices, which establish international law.


                                                                        "when a cop stops you for speeding do you agree to pay the ticket or do you have to pay it? which is it? you agree to pay it or you have to pay it?"

                                                                        Yes, when I freely maintain my citizenship in this country I agree to participate within it's laws

                                                                        '
                                                                        "hahaha. yes. they agreed. they agreed. and if they agree to disagree then what will the un do?"

                                                                        I already said effective enforcement is already weak, to nonexistent. But, again, lack of enforcement is not the same as such not existing
                                                                        • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                          Sat, August 13, 2011 - 2:40 PM
                                                                          ------they openly agree to abide by these practices, which establish international law.

                                                                          its not law if you can ignore it. you can use the word law if you want but its really not law or at least its not law as we commonly use it. call it law if you want but there is no law by the option to opt out if you want. thats not law to me.

                                                                          -----Yes, when I freely maintain my citizenship in this country I agree to participate within it's laws

                                                                          no you do not agree you have to. if you want to leave the country then get tons of tickets and leave but as long as you want to stay here then you are obligated to go by the laws right? there are lots of un countries that do things against un laws right? do they get kicked out? no they dont as far as i know. so thats not the same obviously.

                                                                          -----I already said effective enforcement is already weak, to nonexistent. But, again, lack of enforcement is not the same as such not existing

                                                                          true but that again is another thing. its not a law if its not enforced. at least in my opinion.

                                                                          ------We agree to follow laws because we tacitly agree to the social contract - that's BASIC Lockean theory that our system was founded on. 9th grade civics, learn it.

                                                                          there you go again. a great and pleasant man. i am betting that you do not date much.

                                                                          ----The UN could severely penalize Israel, but the US won't allow it. Without the US' veto power in the UN, Israel would be up the creek without a paddle.

                                                                          and who would be worse off? what would happen if the us was not there? i think that it probably would be worse for the people around the israelis then the israelis. but that is just my guess. That's right, anyone who disagrees with you, regardless of their credentials and comprehension regarding international law must be wrong. you are always right no doubt! hahaha

                                                                          ------"The General Assembly is not a world government - its resolutions are not legally binding upon Member States."

                                                                          if even the un says that its not legally binding what are you guys doing here trying to tell me that it is? do you not understand the insanity or stupidity of that effort?
                                                                          • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                            Sat, August 13, 2011 - 5:59 PM
                                                                            "its not law if you can ignore it. you can use the word law if you want but its really not law or at least its not law as we commonly use it. call it law if you want but there is no law by the option to opt out if you want. thats not law to me. "

                                                                            people ignore laws in America all the time (rape, marijuana possession, prostitution, etc) . Are you saying that this amounts to such laws not existing?

                                                                            Honestly, I think you're confusing a lack of enforcement for an absence


                                                                            "no you do not agree you have to."

                                                                            No, I can leave the country


                                                                            " if you want to leave the country then get tons of tickets and leave but as long as you want to stay here then you are obligated to go by the laws right?"

                                                                            so I can choose to participate in the law, or not


                                                                            "there are lots of un countries that do things against un laws right? do they get kicked out? no they dont as far as i know. so thats not the same obviously. "

                                                                            and many Americans do things that are against US law, and some laws even go ignored by the very civil institutions mandated with the responsibility to enforce them. Again, it's a question of enforcement, not existence


                                                                            "and who would be worse off? what would happen if the us was not there? i think that it probably would be worse for the people around the israelis then the israelis. but that is just my guess."

                                                                            the effects of enforcement really have no bearing on if such a law exists



                                                                            "if even the un says that its not legally binding what are you guys doing here trying to tell me that it is? do you not understand the insanity or stupidity of that effort? "

                                                                            Tandy, again, read the quote while taking note of the use of the term "member state". When 181 was initiated, Palestine, including present day Israel, were under the authority of the mandate system, and were, in no way, "member states"

                                                                            • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                              Sun, August 14, 2011 - 10:42 AM
                                                                              -------people ignore laws in America all the time (rape, marijuana possession, prostitution, etc) . Are you saying that this amounts to such laws not existing?

                                                                              wow i forgot how specific you have to be here! hahaha no because even though they ignore it if they get caught raping someone there is an arm that can force them to go to jail and deal with the crime that they committed. we do not agree to our laws. you dont and surely that guy reagan does not we have to. do you agree to pay your taxes? do you agree to get tabs on your car? do you agree to not steal? no. you have to pay your taxes and get tabs and not steal because if youd o that stuff you cant opt out of jail. you will be in jail for the stuff that at least will put you into jail. but if the un tells us something we can just laugh at them and continue on our way. thats not a law. maybe he and you can win this argument by coming up with some secondary definition of what is a law but i win the main point. there is no such thing as an international law as we have laws here. you want to call a law something when its just by agreement when its convenient for us? sure no problem you can call it that but dont blame me if you have to pay your taxes and tickets because you cant opt out. its not the same but keep trying to win an argument if that is what is important to you over admitting that there is no real thing in the same context as our law here in america that we have to go by and then international law. if you want to spend some of your valuable time above ground just insisting that you win an argument i am not here to tell you that you are wasting your life.

                                                                              -------Honestly, I think you're confusing a lack of enforcement for an absence

                                                                              so you are saying that laws are only agreements with enforcement attached? then its not a law by any definition that i understand. so you are saying that laws dont have to have any enforcement? then why call them laws?

                                                                              -------No, I can leave the country

                                                                              but while you are here you are forced to comply. that is a law. but now i have to get into an argument about what constitutes the definition of law and i hate that shit.

                                                                              -----so I can choose to participate in the law, or not

                                                                              not while you are here. see? the us can choose whether or not to comply with the un. you cannot while you are here. so the laws here are binding so unbinding laws are what?




                                                                              • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                                Sun, August 14, 2011 - 1:46 PM
                                                                                "wow i forgot how specific you have to be here! hahaha no because even though they ignore it if they get caught raping someone there is an arm that can force them to go to jail and deal with the crime that they committed. "

                                                                                that's called enforcement


                                                                                "we do not agree to our laws. you dont and surely that guy reagan does not we have to. do you agree to pay your taxes? do you agree to get tabs on your car? do you agree to not steal?"

                                                                                Yes. Again, if I choose not to participate in the laws of the land I can leave, or even make war on the government


                                                                                "so you are saying that laws are only agreements with enforcement attached? then its not a law by any definition that i understand. so you are saying that laws dont have to have any enforcement? then why call them laws? "

                                                                                there are antiquated laws here that are not enforced all the time


                                                                                "not while you are here. see? the us can choose whether or not to comply with the un. you cannot while you are here. so the laws here are binding so unbinding laws are what? "

                                                                                are you saying people do not ignore marijuana laws, regularly?
                                                                          • .
                                                                            .
                                                                            offline 8

                                                                            Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                            Sun, August 14, 2011 - 8:04 PM
                                                                            <i am betting that you do not date much. >

                                                                            There you go again with your imagination again, just making stuff up to fit your paradigm.

                                                                            Besides, being 'pleasant' never got anybody laid.

                                                                            <do they get kicked out? no they dont as far as i know. so thats not the same obviously. >

                                                                            They're technically supposed to yes. Its just like the Geneva conventions, we treat everyone as if they are in compliance, regardless of the truth.

                                                                            <at least in my opinion. >

                                                                            Your opinion is entirely invented, and has no bearing on fact. If I own, say, 25 acres in the Hill Country of Texas, and I ignore a burn ban and fire fireworks on July Fourth, there's *still a law*, despite the fact that there's no enforcement for 20 miles.

                                                                            <if even the un says that its not legally binding what are you guys doing here trying to tell me that it is? do you not understand the insanity or stupidity of that effort? >

                                                                            I guess its not your inability to comprehend how these things work, or that perhaps you don't understand what you're reading, but that we, AND the Hague, are 'insane' and 'stupid'.

                                                                            Generally when I hold an opinion, and then someone with WAY MORE 'comprehension' and 'credentials' than I challenges that opinion, I at least stop, ponder, examine the evidence, and then accept that my position may not be as strong as I had thought. You just keep pretending you know more, its kind of amusing.
                                                                            • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                              Mon, August 15, 2011 - 1:39 AM
                                                                              --Besides, being 'pleasant' never got anybody laid.

                                                                              oh you kid! still playing the bad boy? hahaha. see where that gets you!

                                                                              --------Generally when I hold an opinion, and then someone with WAY MORE 'comprehension' and 'credentials' than I challenges that opinion, I at least stop,

                                                                              hahaha. that explains a lot. you defer to the experts huh? hahaha. well at least we now know how you know wha tyou think that you know. i guess that if the experts tell you something then it must be right! hahaha.
                                                                              • .
                                                                                .
                                                                                offline 8

                                                                                Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                                Mon, August 15, 2011 - 10:46 AM
                                                                                of course Tandy, you go on right ahead and keep thinking that your 'opinion', which is based on a lack of information and understanding, is just as legitimate and accurate as an experts.

                                                                                I suppose you don't use plumbers, or mechanics, either - their 'opinions' aren't nearly as valuable as yours.
                                                                      • .
                                                                        .
                                                                        offline 8

                                                                        Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                        Wed, August 10, 2011 - 1:10 PM
                                                                        No, you're enjoying Warren trying to explain to you basic concepts, and you insisting on clinging to entirely fictitious understandings of basic concepts, like laws.

                                                                        We agree to follow laws because we tacitly agree to the social contract - that's BASIC Lockean theory that our system was founded on. 9th grade civics, learn it.

                                                                        The UN could severely penalize Israel, but the US won't allow it. Without the US' veto power in the UN, Israel would be up the creek without a paddle.
                                                                  • .
                                                                    .
                                                                    offline 8

                                                                    Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                    Wed, August 10, 2011 - 11:25 AM
                                                                    Yes, they do have the authority, Tandy, because Israel is NOW a member state, and has agreed to abide by the dictates of the UN. If they choose to refuse to abide by said dictates, they should withdraw from the club, or be kicked out.

                                                                    Yes, the Geneva Convention is an agreement by countries - countries, again, who refuse to abide by its dictates, should remove themselves from the convention.

                                                                    <i understand but i just cant agree that your version of law is at all relevant. its not really law. its agreement. and agreement is not law. i dont agree to pay taxes or not rob people. i dont do it because its illegal. its against the law. if i do it i go to jail. there is a goverment that tells me what i can and can not do and it matters. it does not matter to me one word that the un says. if we choose to laugh at them then we can. there is nothing that they can do because we are their police right? its not law. >

                                                                    Oh my god. Do we really have to explain social contract theory to you too? Really?
                                • .
                                  .
                                  offline 8

                                  Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                  Tue, August 2, 2011 - 4:39 PM
                                  Tandy - whether you know it or not, this line of argument, asking if there's 'camps' named after Israeli Terrorists, and this argument about 'degrees' "is there a school or camp named after them? its about degrees too you know. " is a defense of Israel, and in this case, a defense of Israel regarding an attack against US assets.
                            • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                              Tue, August 2, 2011 - 1:17 PM
                              -----its amazing to me when Israeli supporters will back Israel over the US every time, like Tandy.

                              hahaha. when did i do that? show me where i did that? or i should really say show me where your imagination or voices in your head said that i did that. you just cant help but make assumptions and then follishly move ahead with those assumptions.

                              --Israel sent agents disguised as Arab terrorists to BOMB AMERICAN TARGETS to influence US foreign policy. How can you defend this?

                              hahaha. where did i defend this? hahaha. you are 100% wrong but wont be able to be a man and admit it. again. hahaha. no wonder you are here so much. its a lot easier here then in the real world right?
                              • .
                                .
                                offline 8

                                Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                Tue, August 2, 2011 - 4:37 PM
                                You really are a piece of work, Tandy.

                                If you can't see how your defense of Israel regarding the USS Liberty, where you REFUSED to acknowledge that Israeli military command and control, as well as pilots in the air, recognized the ship as American, despite my posted transcripts, and your deflection of the Lavon affair back to some watered down Tu Quoque, are examples of exactly what I'm accusing you of, then you're flat out delusional.

                                My refusal to admit I'm 100% wrong has nothing to do with my manliness, and I'm guessing you have no idea what the 'real world' is like. I'm here for about 10-20 minutes a day because right now I've got a lot of spare time while I rest and rehabilitate. But you keep imagining away - you'll always have Erik to keep you company, while the rest of us shake our heads in amazement.
                                • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                  Thu, August 4, 2011 - 12:35 AM
                                  Back at it eh?
                                  • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                    Fri, August 5, 2011 - 6:36 PM
                                    Back at what?
                                    • Unsu...
                                       

                                      Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                      Fri, August 5, 2011 - 6:46 PM
                                      I think maybe back at looking at a cartoon cat with 60,000 amperes going through him at 1 and a half minute intervals for about 5 seconds at a time. But probably something else. I don't mean to do much other than provide some filler, you need some more posters to exchange cartons of cigarettes with in this 1930's prison, maybe Andy Dufreign will show up.
                                      • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                        Sat, August 6, 2011 - 5:25 AM
                                        At boring me.
                                        • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                          Tue, August 9, 2011 - 1:14 AM
                                          • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                            Tue, August 9, 2011 - 6:32 AM
                                            from your link: " The General Assembly is not a world government - ***its resolutions are not legally binding upon Member States.***"

                                            Note, we are talking about a decision when the territory was under mandate, and according to the UN charter, under general assembly authority.

                                            All this has been already explained in my original post on the matter
                                            • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                              Tue, August 9, 2011 - 7:25 AM
                                              Nope.

                                              www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/201...ael/

                                              No such authority ever existed. Saying otherwise, makes no difference.
                                              • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                Tue, August 9, 2011 - 8:00 AM
                                                Yet, I just cited primary documents, like the Palistine mandate, and the UN charter, that clearly indicate otherwise.

                                                While you have an online article on some malware infected site

                                                PS Oh, thanks, for the helpful link and online cooties, geeves

                                                can you at least copy and past the material here, so we can read it without dealing with computer issues?
                                                • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                  Tue, August 9, 2011 - 2:33 PM
                                                  Cognitive dissonance bores me. Get back to me when you have something substantive.
                                                  • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                    Tue, August 9, 2011 - 3:05 PM
                                                    "Cognitive dissonance bores me. Get back to me when you have something substantive."

                                                    my malware blocker went crazy when i went to that site, and blocked access to it. And while I surely missed an opportunity to read some illuminating piece of journalism, while getting online kooties, I rather not deal with such issues to just read the article

                                                    If you want, please post the relevant material here, and I'll be happy to read it
                                                    • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                      Tue, August 9, 2011 - 3:32 PM
                                                      Perhaps you have cognitively dissonant malware? I had no trouble reading it. If you are interested in the truth, figure it out. Otherwise, you can continue to believe in what you will. Of course. You and the Arab street.
                                                      • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                        Tue, August 9, 2011 - 4:07 PM
                                                        "Perhaps you have cognitively dissonant malware? I had no trouble reading it. If you are interested in the truth, figure it out. Otherwise, you can continue to believe in what you will. Of course. You and the Arab street."

                                                        Again, i'm not getting some infection so I can read an article that probably does nothing to address the material I cited. But if you post it here, I'll be happy to read it

                                                        PS you might want to invest in some better protection for your comp
                                                        • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                          Tue, August 9, 2011 - 5:02 PM
                                                          I believe he subscribes to the might makes right theory....

                                                          since Israel has more guns they can do whatever and the Palestinians can simply suck it up and say "uncle"
                                                          • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                            Tue, August 9, 2011 - 5:23 PM
                                                            Here's a link that shouldn't cause your computer any probs. I notice this guy seems to be rather sympathetic to 9/11 truthers. ::shudders:::

                                                            www.jeremyrhammond.com/2010/1...israel/
                                                            • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                              Tue, August 9, 2011 - 5:51 PM
                                                              thx, Eric, I'll reply to it tomorrow at the latest
                                                              • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                Tue, August 9, 2011 - 6:10 PM
                                                                Um I'm not erik but "you're welcome"

                                                                ;p


                                                                after skimming the article,I'm not sure erik actually read past the title
                                                                • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                  Tue, August 9, 2011 - 6:21 PM
                                                                  I was saying thx to you and telling erk I would reply once i got a chance to read
                                                                  • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                    Tue, August 9, 2011 - 6:30 PM
                                                                    oops my bad...
                                                                    • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                      Tue, August 9, 2011 - 7:37 PM
                                                                      <<<The Authority of the U.N. with Regard to Partition

                                                                      Chapter 1, Article 1 of the U.N. Charter defines its purposes and principles, which are to “maintain international peace and security”, to “develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples”, and to “achieve international co-operation” on various issues and “promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms for all”.....

                                                                      ....To that end, Member states are “to develop self-government, to take due account of the political aspirations of the peoples, and to assist them in the progressive development of their free political institutions”.>>>

                                                                      in the above section of the article the writer makes it appear that there is no such authority by blatantly ignoring the very articles that delineate such authority

                                                                      naturally, these are the same articles I cited from the very beginning
                                                                      • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                        Wed, August 10, 2011 - 12:47 AM
                                                                        None.

                                                                        Even the UN recognizes the fact.

                                                                        www.un.org/cyberschoolb...ur/subgen.htm

                                                                        As for the accusation about my position on might making right? Personalization from the monitor himself?

                                                                        In any event, no, might does not make right. However, they aren't mutually exclusive. Israel is the aggrieved party. They are the ones who were attacked, repeatedly. So, they just happen to be in the right, and mighty. All their attackers have to do to make peace is abide by SCR 242. An actual, legally binding, UN resolution. Egypt has done so. As has Jordan. And, of course, Israel. The PA, Hamas, Syria, and Lebanon, remain in violation.
                                                                        • .
                                                                          .
                                                                          offline 8

                                                                          Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                          Thu, August 11, 2011 - 2:06 AM
                                                                          Dude, quit whining about personalization. You do it ALL the time, and pointing out what your opinions seem to indicate is not an ad hominem, or even bad rhetorical style.
                                                                          • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                            Thu, August 11, 2011 - 2:28 AM
                                                                            More of same.
                                                                            • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                              Thu, August 18, 2011 - 1:52 AM
                                                                              PA Teaches 5-Year-Olds to Die for Allah
                                                                              INN
                                                                              by Maayana Miskin
                                                                              Published: 16/08/11, 7:54 PM

                                                                              A Palestinian Authority kindergarten showed off what its young students had learned over the past year by having the five-year-olds act out scenes of terror and death for their families. The parents were moved to tears upon seeing their children pretend to die as “martyrs,” Palestinian Media Watch reported reported.

                                                                              During the graduation ceremony two plays were performed – one based on “Little Red Riding Hood,” the second, “The Martyr's Wedding,” a story glorifying death in battle with Israel for the sake of Islam.

                                                                              “Another performance named 'The Martyr's Wedding' delighted the audience due to the role-play of the children, whose acting depicted the reality of roadblocks, children, occupation, soldiers, and the children's death as Martyrs,” wrote the PA daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, in a report picked up and translated by Palestinian Media Watch.

                                                                              The performance was accompanied by “nationalistic” songs, Al-Hayat Al-Jadida reported. Many such songs encourage “martyrdom” and bloodshed for the sake of “freeing the land of Palestine” - a land which, according to the PA, includes all of Israel.
                                                                              • Re: Another Israeli propaganda in this article.

                                                                                Thu, August 18, 2011 - 6:22 PM
                                                                                same as the other one. surely the palestinians know that for there to be a peace deal the israrelis have to trust that they have a partner in peace right? well they sure dont. first that other story about ereasing israel and then this one where they train kids to be marters? that is fucking crazy! you know why i seem to be taking sides? because i see stuff like this and i have to put myself in both peoples shoes and if i was a palestinian i would know that these things have to affect the israelis. and if i was an israeli i would never trust them at all. i understand why the palestinians would be angry but there is a difference between being angry and being psychotic. these actions that erik has posted are psychotic. its like a country of sociopaths when i see stuff like this.

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