Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

topic posted Mon, November 2, 2009 - 1:08 PM by 
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PESHAWAR, Pakistan — Islamist militants blew up a girls school in Pakistan's lawless Khyber tribal district Sunday, destroying the building and wounding four people in neighbouring homes, officials said.

Two explosions ripped through the 18-room government high school for girls at Kari Gar village and a boy who watched the premises is missing, possibly kidnapped by the militants, local administration officials said.

"The militants have blown up the school with two blasts and all rooms were demolished," said administration official Shafeer Ullah.

"Four people in neighbouring houses were also wounded and their homes slightly damaged. We're still trying to find out what happened to the office boy," Ullah told AFP.

Another of Khyber's administrators, Farooq Khan, confirmed the incident.

Islamist militants, who have carved out a strong presence in Pakistan's semi-autonomous tribal belt on the Afghan border, have destroyed hundreds of schools, mostly for girls, in the northwest of the country in recent years.

Nearly 200 schools were destroyed in the Swat valley alone during a two-year Taliban uprising to enforce sharia law in a district once favoured by Western tourists for its ski slopes and bracing mountain air.

Following up a similar offensive in Swat this summer, Pakistan has been fighting against homegrown militants in Khyber and pressing a major assault designed to crush Taliban sanctuaries in South Waziristan.

Authorities last month shut schools across Pakistan following a suicide attack on a university campus in Islamabad, although most have since reopened.
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  • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

    Tue, November 3, 2009 - 11:48 AM
    that's just so fucked up
    • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

      Tue, November 3, 2009 - 12:43 PM
      agreed.

      it should be noted that the girls who attended the school were Muslim, thus it is ludicrous to blame the incident on Islam.
      • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

        Tue, November 3, 2009 - 1:07 PM
        =~=:
        > it should be noted that the girls who attended the school were Muslim, thus it is ludicrous to blame the incident on Islam.

        Yes and no.

        Those Muslims who are murdering school girls, certainly feel that Mohammed gives them the full backing to commit such horrible crimes.

        So, we cannot directly blame all Muslims or Islam as a whole, but we absolutely can attribute their form of Islam for such horrors.
      • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

        Tue, November 3, 2009 - 3:08 PM
        <it should be noted that the girls who attended the school were Muslim, thus it is ludicrous to blame the incident on Islam.>

        You're kidding, right?

        Seriously?

        It was Muslim fundies that did it, BECAUSE of how they read the Koran - that's an Islamic issue, right?

        < the only Muslim who would justify the murder of a school girl is an ignorant one.

        Yet, it's STILL an incident that is relevant to Islam since it's Muslims who use the holy book to commit their crimes, just like the settlers who use the Torah as an excuse to commit their crimes... THAT is a Jewish/Israeli issue in my opinion. All the suicide bombs and other Muslim vs Muslim bombings? All of the fatawas, all of the 'honor killings', etc? Those are all "ignorant" issues? Really? When the top religious leader of a state issues a fatwa, you are saying that they are "ignorant"?
        • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

          Tue, November 3, 2009 - 7:04 PM

          "It was Muslim fundies that did it, BECAUSE of how they read the Koran - that's an Islamic issue, right? "

          Andrew you really expose your weakness(es) of understanding when you step into the religious side of these discussions.

          There is absolutely nothing in the Qur'an to justify the murder of school girls and/or the destruction of centers of learning. Who were these Muslim "fundies"? Can you prove your allegation? Can you support any of it?


          "it's Muslims who use the holy book to commit their crimes"

          Again. Please provide more substance to your rhetoric. Even the slightest bit.


          "just like the settlers who use the Torah as an excuse to commit their crimes..."

          Ah. Thank you! Please tell me how they do so. Where does it say in the Torah that land-grabs built upon bloodshed prior to the return of the Messiah is kosher?

          Every now and then I throw that question out. As far as I can tell the person that realllllly needs to address it is the 'Duke' as he appears to be be more than a Jew of the secular variety.
          • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

            Tue, November 3, 2009 - 7:25 PM
            <Andrew you really expose your weakness(es) of understanding when you step into the religious side of these discussions. There is absolutely nothing in the Qur'an to justify the murder of school girls and/or the destruction of centers of learning. Who were these Muslim "fundies"? Can you prove your allegation? Can you support any of it?>

            Yet - they quote the Koran all the damn time. We're talking about not just crazy fundies in holes of Bora Bora, but we're talking about the leadership of the Iranian nation, of Fatah and Hamas and of 50 other governments or leading Muslim groups who sponsor or promote violence against innocents.

            I NEVER quoted the parts of the Koran or religious texts that call for the killing of Jews such as the one about the tree telling the Muslim that there's a Jew hiding behind the tree...

            <<"it's Muslims who use the holy book to commit their crimes">>

            <Again. Please provide more substance to your rhetoric. Even the slightest bit.>

            You're kidding, right? Seriously? How's about the fatwa against Salman Rushdie? Care to try to say that Khomeini didn't use the Koran to make that fatwa?

            <<"just like the settlers who use the Torah as an excuse to commit their crimes...">>

            <Ah. Thank you! Please tell me how they do so. Where does it say in the Torah that land-grabs built upon bloodshed prior to the return of the Messiah is kosher?>

            Fairly often we see people like our own Duke who says that the West Bank was promised to Jews in the Torah. I am not making their point, I am pointing out that they CLAIM this, just as Muslims FAIRLY OFTEN use the Koran to make an argument for murder. Cold blooded murder. State actors. Muslim-led governments.

            <How many Muslims condone militants blowing up Pakistani girls schools? The vast majority, I assure you.>

            Really? "The Vast Majority" condone that kind of action?

            • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

              Tue, November 3, 2009 - 7:40 PM
              you are really making yourself a fool. best stick to your mantra of '8k rockets' rather than discuss religion.



              "Yet - they quote the Koran all the damn time."

              Ok. Where?

              Tree? What tree?



              "How's about the fatwa against Salman Rushdie?"

              How's about it? I didn't support it. Neither did many Muslims.


              See Andrew, you will NEVER be taken seriously by anyone with even the tiniest margin of true understanding regarding Islam. However, you are most correct in your observation and thank you for pointing it out to me. I thought that read 'condemn', not condone.



              "Muslims... use the Koran to make an argument for murder. Cold blooded murder"

              Can you support this allegation?
              • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                Tue, November 3, 2009 - 7:50 PM
                <<"Yet - they quote the Koran all the damn time.">>

                <Ok. Where?>

                Seriously? Fatwas issues by the Iranian government and other religious leaders - LEADERS - not just individual religious Imams. Really? You're going to pretend that there are no Muslim religious leaders that preach violence against innocent people? Really? No shit?

                HA!!!!!!!!!!!!

                I get it now. You want to pretend that you're right, even in the face of this incredible reality.

                <<"How's about the fatwa against Salman Rushdie?">>

                <How's about it? I didn't support it. Neither did many Muslims.>

                That was never the point. Whether or not even ONE Muslim disagreed with the leader of the Iranian government, the fact is that he DID make this fatwa, right? The fact remains that OTHER Imams upheld and expressed this fatwa after Khomaini said it, right?

                Are you really going to pretend that Muslim religious and civic leaders do not call for violence against innocent people all the damned time, whether or whether not YOU or "many Muslims" did or "didn't support it"?

                <<"Muslims... use the Koran to make an argument for murder. Cold blooded murder">>

                <Can you support this allegation?>

                Seriously? The government of Gaza are Muslims, and they use the argument of the Koran ALL THE TIME in their TV, radio, print and voice, reasoning their attacks on innocent Israelis.

                Or, are you saying that you support for religious reasons the attacks on innocent Israelis? Or, are you saying that you doubt that Hamas & Co. use religious reasoning in order to excuse attacks against innocent Israelis?
                • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                  Tue, November 3, 2009 - 7:59 PM
                  "even in the face of this incredible reality."

                  what incredible reality? you haven't proven anything! you just spout more of your 'fox-news meets Winger' anti-Islam rhetoric.

                  back it up, sweet-cheeks :-)



                  "Are you really going to pretend that Muslim religious and civic leaders do not call for violence against innocent people all the damned time"

                  Andrew, we live in a time when a man will strap explosives to his chest and go to the jummah prayers on friday and blow himself up in the middle of the khutba killing himself and his brothers in the Masjid. "Religious and civic leaders" can be mistaken.



                  "Seriously? The government of Gaza are Muslims, and they use the argument of the Koran ALL THE TIME in their TV, radio, print and voice,"
                  reasoning their attacks on innocent Israelis."

                  I know that this is a lie because I know that the Qur'an does not condone attacks on innocent civilians.


                  "are you saying that you support for religious reasons the attacks on innocent Israelis?"

                  Andrew the question is offensive. Who in their right mind would support any reason for an attack upon innocents?

                  Besides, try to have a world-view that is slightly broader. We aren't talking about Israelis.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
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                    Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                    Wed, November 4, 2009 - 10:28 AM
                    What sort of retardation are you spewing ~*~?

                    Andrew is not saying that the Quran DOES actually argue that one should commit the actions in question, just that those committing the actions rely on the Quran for justification.


                    <"Seriously? The government of Gaza are Muslims, and they use the argument of the Koran ALL THE TIME in their TV, radio, print and voice,"
                    reasoning their attacks on innocent Israelis."

                    I know that this is a lie because I know that the Qur'an does not condone attacks on innocent civilians. >

                    No, its not a lie. That is exactly what they do. You clearly do not understand the Quran well enough to see how it can be interpreted to justify these attacks. I suggest you read the HAMAS charter sometime.
                    • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                      Wed, November 4, 2009 - 10:43 AM
                      Salil, I understand that you have assigned yourself the role of some sort of academia specialist, but, well, you have yet to prove that you deserve this station, so I take everything you say with a grain of salt.

                      Also, I appreciate that you seem to enjoy spreading your critiques liberally in all directions, but to suggest that I am spewing 'retardation' is unnecessary and counter-productive.

                      The Qur'an does not justify the killing of innocent life. Prove me wrong and provide the verse. Simple.

                      And I have read the charter. I'm surprised to find you sounding like Brent and Adam... But as they say in 12-step meetings:

                      "More will be revealed"
                      • ps

                        Wed, November 4, 2009 - 10:45 AM

                        "Andrew is not saying that the Quran DOES actually argue that one should commit the actions in question, just that those committing the actions rely on the Quran for justification."

                        I understood that. I was pointing Andrew to the opportunity to step outside of the hype and actually learn a bit about what the Qur'an teaches.

                        High aspiration, I know.
                      • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                        Wed, November 4, 2009 - 12:05 PM
                        .
                        > The burning of women at the stake on xtianity?

                        Sure. Of course we can, and _should_ blame that on Christianity.

                        But Christians have moved beyond that. And today, Muslims are _today_ blowing up girls schools.

                        Today, it's Islam which has to make a shift. Not, Christianity.

                        ~*~:
                        > The Qur'an does not justify the killing of innocent life. Prove me wrong and provide the verse. Simple.

                        9:29 "Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection."

                        Now, I'm sure that you have your own translation of what it means to kill people until they're subjugated and don't do what Mohammed has forbidden. But, the Taliban also has their own translation. And it's at least equally valid as yours.
                        • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                          Wed, November 4, 2009 - 12:18 PM
                          "it's at least equally valid as yours'

                          as you wish.
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                            Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                            Wed, November 4, 2009 - 3:42 PM
                            you keep prattling on, but you don't seem to be able to articulate how Adam is wrong on this precise point.

                            There is simply no doubt the Quran can be used to justify unwarranted violence.
                            • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                              Wed, November 4, 2009 - 4:06 PM
                              i am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are at least mildly aware of the circumstances surrounding the more potentially volatile verses in the Qur'an and thus know that if the Qur'an is used to justify "unwarranted" violence then it is being used in error.
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                                Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                Wed, November 4, 2009 - 4:12 PM
                                <i am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you are at least mildly aware of the circumstances surrounding the more potentially volatile verses in the Qur'an and thus know that if the Qur'an is used to justify "unwarranted" violence then it is being used in error.>

                                I am quite sure that I am far more aware of the Quran and the historical context in which it was written than you are. because only people with a self-educated, religious, and shallow background in the field can prattle on with this nonsense.

                                it is YOUR assertion that the Quran is being used in error. YOURS. Unfortunately the Quran does not provide an explication that resolves its internal contradictions. The Quran clearly states that unbelievers (polytheists in this case) should be slaughtered.

                                end of story.

                                I challenge you to find any madhab that argues otherwise. Certainly some Sufi traditions ignore these directives, but they are hardly utilizing literal interpretations.

                                Anyway, Andrew never stated that the Quran was not being used in error. He made a very simple statement that you claimed was false. His statement was accurate, therefore you were wrong. Now you're trying to duck out of it and shift the argument because you don't know how to debate.

                                You should be embarrassed. Really. You remind me of someone who used to come here, start arguing with some reason and understanding, and then vanish as soon as he got schooled. His last incarnation was 'Water' - is that you?
                                • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                  Wed, November 4, 2009 - 4:39 PM

                                  "The Quran clearly states that unbelievers (polytheists in this case) should be slaughtered.

                                  end of story.

                                  I challenge you to find any madhab that argues otherwise."


                                  "Muslims have struggled to differentiate between legitimate and illegitimate wars. Fighting in self-defense is not only legitimate but considered obligatory upon Muslims, according to the Qur'an. The Qur'an, however, says that should enemy hostile behavior cease, then the reason for engaging such enemy also lapses.[1"


                                  "The Hanafi school of thought holds that war can only be launched against a state that had resorted to armed conflict against the Muslims. War, according to the Hanafis, can't simply be made on the account of nation's religion.

                                  Muhammad ibn Idris ash-Shafi`i (d. 820), founder of the Shafi'i school of thought, was the first to permit offensive jihad. He limited this warfare against pagan Arabs only, not permitting it against non-Arab non-Muslims.[15"


                                  "Islam expressly prohibits the killing of non-combatants.[30][31] Javed Ghamidi argues that this principle is not just based on the Islamic faith but also founded in customs and reason.[32] Shia scholar Ayatollah Mohammad Taqi Mesbah-Yazdi holds a similar position regarding non-combatants.[33]

                                  Harming civilian areas and pillaging residential areas is also forbidden,[34] as is the destruction of trees, crops, livestock and farmlands.[26][35] The Muslim forces may not loot travellers, as doing so is contrary to the spirit of jihad.[36] Nor do they have the right to use the local facilities of the native people without their consent. If such a consent is obtained, the Muslim army is still under the obligation to compensate the people financially for the use of such facilities. However, Islamic law allows the confiscation of military equipment and supplies captured from the camps and military headquarters of the combatant armies.[34][37]"



                                  "In the context of seventh century Arabia, the Quran ordained Muslims must restrain themselves from fighting in the months when fighting was prohibited by Arab pagans. The Qur'an also required the respect of this cease-fire, prohibiting its violation.[24]

                                  If, however, non-Muslims commit acts of aggression, Muslims are free to retaliate, though in a manner that is equal to the original transgression.[40] The "sword verse", which has attracted attention, is directed against a particular group who violate the terms of peace and commit aggression (but excepts those who observe the treaty). Crone states that this verse seems to be based on the same above-mentioned rules. Here also it is stressed that one must stop when they do.[3][5] Ibn Kathir states that the verse implies a hasty mission of besieging and gathering intelligence about the enemy, resulting in either death or repentance by the enemy.[41] It is read as a continuation of previous verses, it would be concerned with the same oath-breaking of "polytheists".[3]"
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                                    Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                    Wed, November 4, 2009 - 5:26 PM
                                    You seem to not understand english very well.


                                    We're not talking about 'war' - 'war' in Arabic is a specific form of violence. Polytheists in early Islam had no rights. There is a Hadith in which Muhammad is purported to state that polytheism is worse than murder.

                                    Rather than relying on Wiki, I'll cite an actual scholarly text for you:

                                    War and peace in the law of Islam by Majid Khadduri, p 75

                                    not to mention Quran 9:5 "slay the polytheists wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush for them."

                                    Your citation falls flat because of your lack of understanding, and trying to apply Islamic laws of warfare to the tribal and individual injuctions expressed in Islamic dictate.
                                    • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                      Wed, November 4, 2009 - 5:41 PM
                                      citing hadiths? you know you cannot throw them around lime that. is it sahih? who recorded it?

                                      " 'war' in Arabic is a specific form of violence."

                                      Are you serious? You challenged me to find a madhab that doesn't condone the indiscriminate killing of 'unbelievers' and i found two on wiki without spending five minutes!


                                      In truth I was surprised and glad when I found the wiki link useful and informative in a general way which is why i shared it here. Really, Salil, if you know so much about Islam then why don't you spend more time correcting the distortions that get (either ignorantly or intentionally) about Muslims/Islam that get thrown around with such zeal. You may think you know more than every else about every thing but you must admit that there is a lot of information in the link that I posted that most people here are entirely ignorant of.


                                      "not to mention Quran 9:5 "slay the polytheists wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush for them."

                                      Sigh. You are going to quote out of context as well?


                                      May I ask, Salil, what your intention is in being involved in these discussions?
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                                        Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                        Wed, November 4, 2009 - 7:08 PM
                                        I'm not quoting anything 'out of context' - and for you to keep claiming that every bit of evidence shown to you is 'out of context' is a tired canard.


                                        <You challenged me to find a madhab that doesn't condone the indiscriminate killing of 'unbelievers' and i found two on wiki without spending five minutes!>

                                        No, you actually didn't. You found one, Hanafi, that limits state on state WARFARE - not within-state jihad or the punishment of shirk.

                                        You relied on Wiki, I pointed you to an actual published scholarly source on the issue.

                                        When you actually study Islam and warfare, as I have, you'll realize how in error you are.

                                        <why don't you spend more time correcting the distortions that get (either ignorantly or intentionally) about Muslims/Islam that get thrown around with such zeal>

                                        I do that on a REGULAR basis.
                                        • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                          Wed, November 4, 2009 - 7:14 PM

                                          "When you actually study Islam..."

                                          Ahem.

                                          Have you ever even made salat or lived in a Muslim country?
                                          • in context

                                            Wed, November 4, 2009 - 7:16 PM

                                            for example:

                                            [9:4] If the idol worshipers sign a peace treaty with you, and do not violate it, nor band together with others against you, you shall fulfill your treaty with them until the expiration date. GOD loves the righteous.

                                            [9:5] Once the Sacred Months are past, (and they refuse to make peace) you may kill the idol worshipers when you encounter them, punish them, and resist every move they make. If they repent and observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), you shall let them go. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

                                            [9:6] If one of the idol worshipers sought safe passage with you, you shall grant him safe passage, so that he can hear the word of GOD, then send him back to his place of security. That is because they are people who do not know.



                                            see what I mean?
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                                              Re: in context

                                              Wed, November 4, 2009 - 7:53 PM
                                              Oh lord. First off, you're ADDING subtext that doesnt exist in the Arabic. Secondly, you're completely betraying the verses here. The entire chapter here states clearly that Muhammad is free from 'obligation', ie, cannot be bound by treaties with the idolators. The only treaty that can be honored, therefore, by Muslims, according to this passage, is the one of submission (ie, conversion to Islam).

                                              www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/.../009.asp

                                              You are deliberately misrepresenting the Quran. Why?
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                                            Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                            Wed, November 4, 2009 - 7:44 PM
                                            Talk about out of context. Do you know how to read?

                                            I didn't say: "When you actually study Islam" now did I?


                                            <Have you ever even made salat or lived in a Muslim country? >

                                            One does not have to become a Muslim to study Islam, now does one? To assert otherwise it ludicrous. Nor does one have to 'live' in a Muslim country - both are are illogical and irrelevant.

                                            And while I have indeed lived and worked in Muslim lands, I'm not going to discuss it here.
                                            • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                              Wed, November 4, 2009 - 7:50 PM
                                              "both are are illogical and irrelevant."

                                              I'll take that as a no.


                                              I could study about guitars for years but if i never actually learned how to play one what do I really know about making music?
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                                                Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                                Wed, November 4, 2009 - 7:56 PM
                                                <I could study about guitars for years but if i never actually learned how to play one what do I really know about making music? >

                                                This is completely ridiculous. One could study composition and be a great composer, but not play the guitar.

                                                We arent discussing the spirituality of Islam, but its textual and historical aspects. In fact, not being a Muslim gives be a tremendous amont of insight into Islam because I'm not tainted with pro-Islamic bias
                                  • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                    Wed, November 4, 2009 - 7:45 PM

                                    Surely you recognize that finding portions that are nice do not make those that CAN be used to be violent not be relevant, right?

                                    <Really, Salil, if you know so much about Islam then why don't you spend more time correcting the distortions that get (either ignorantly or intentionally) about Muslims/Islam that get thrown around with such zeal.>

                                    Why is that Salil's job? He's barely here while you're here all the time. Perhaps you want to PM him or get his phone number and call him every time that you feel that Islam needs to be defended? Or, you could take some time and do it yourself - you DO seem to care enough to try to argue with him about it and even to go so far as to suggest that he defends Islam.

                                    Why are you not simply responding to the actual LINES OF THE KORAN that specifically call for killing? I mean, I didn't make that shit up, you know.

                                    <<"not to mention Quran 9:5 "slay the polytheists wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them and lie in ambush for them.">>

                                    <Sigh. You are going to quote out of context as well?>

                                    Funny how when it's important to you, context is relevant.

                                    <May I ask, Salil, what your intention is in being involved in these discussions?>

                                    Should I ask you that next time you jump into a conversation where you were not invited - as if we need to be invited into any discussion here?

                                    And, if you're a Muslim, why do you rely upon Wiki?

                                    <see what I mean?>

                                    No, that some nice things are written, that does not mean that the quotes about killing people ARE NOT, not relevant.

                                    Know what I mean?

                                    You're going to deal with the reality that there are parts of the Koran and the additional texts that are used by governments and other sects religious leaders in order to call for violence against innocent people.

                                    I wonder if you consider the attacks against Israelis to be attacks against "innocent people"? I doubt it. Otherwise, you'd not be able to speak up for Hamas & Co. as you do, since they so obviously are doing things AGAINST the very lines which you are quoting.

                                    Really, ~*~, if you care so much about Islam then why don't you spend more time speaking out against the attacks on innocent Israelis that happen and those that speak up for such actions with such zeal?
                                    • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                      Wed, November 4, 2009 - 7:57 PM
                                      "Why are you not simply responding to the actual LINES OF THE KORAN that specifically call for killing?"

                                      I did. Guess you missed it.


                                      Invited? Andrew, you are clueless as to why I asked him of his intention.


                                      "And, if you're a Muslim, why do you rely upon Wiki?"

                                      Um. I provided solid information that was easily understandable for every here. What is the problem with that?


                                      "you'd not be able to speak up for Hamas & Co. as you do"

                                      when and where?



                                      "Really, ~*~, if you care so much about Islam then why don't you spend more time speaking out against the attacks on innocent Israelis that happen and those that speak up for such actions with such zeal?"

                                      Because Israel is not the victim. Because when you look at how many Israelis die compared to Palestinians, and what living conditions are like under the boot of Zionism, then you realize that this conflict isn't even an Islamic or Arab one. It's a human issue.

                                      Humans are living under oppression and occupation. It's wrong. Simple as that.
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                                        Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                        Wed, November 4, 2009 - 8:11 PM
                                        No you most certainly didnt. You made the claim that the line was out of context, and then you provided ACTUALLY out of context verse to try and support your claim.

                                        I then called you out on it and provided the entire passage, which you have ignored.

                                        Sura 9 clearly states that AT THE TIME Muhammad was to give the unbelievers 4 months to get their shit together and submit, and if they didnt, oh well.
                                      • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                        Thu, November 5, 2009 - 3:27 AM
                                        <Um. I provided solid information that was easily understandable for every here. What is the problem with that?>

                                        The "problem" is that your cite did not deal with the issue at hand in a relevant manner. Like Sami getting schooled in the thread about his mistaken belief that the Ceasefire in Gaza related to the West Bank, you're getting schooled about your own religion.

                                        <<"Really, ~*~, if you care so much about Islam then why don't you spend more time speaking out against the attacks on innocent Israelis that happen and those that speak up for such actions with such zeal?">>

                                        <Because Israel is not the victim.>

                                        See? You won't do it. Even though there were over 8K attacks on Israel which CAUSED Cast Lead to happen, because of your bias and lack of personal integrity, you can't get yourself to even confront the obvious terroristic actions of your resistance 'heroes'. It's a shame, too, because I wills speak out ALL THE TIME about the settlers and their actions, but you can't say a word about the attacks on innocent Israelis, "Because Israel is not the victim."

                                        That's sad. Seriously. There's no hope for the Pals. If YOU and Sami are examples of Moderates? They'll be in their sewage pits of occupied areas until the nukes start to fly. What fucking idiots. They could have their own country in six months if they wanted on, but instead, they'll just hold out until the end of the world. What fucking idiots.

                                        I am truly saddened by you. Your bias causes them harm, but you're to bigoted to understand that your unconditional support is actually doing them harm. You're closer to the Israeli far-Right than I am.

                                        <Because when you look at how many Israelis die compared to Palestinians, and what living conditions are like under the boot of Zionism, then you realize that this conflict isn't even an Islamic or Arab one. It's a human issue.>

                                        No. It's a military issue. There is a human aspect to it, but it's a military and national security issue. You just can't admit that because of your bias and unconditional support for the terrorists. The terrorists that are betraying your OWN religion with their anti-Muslim attacks on innocent Israelis. You can't even stand up and say that those attacks are wrong.

                                        <Humans are living under oppression and occupation. It's wrong. Simple as that.>

                                        Well, they can choose to stop anytime and just agree to peace talks. Simple as that.

                                        < Oh Look! andrew is jumping in hoping to get Salil's approval at long last.>

                                        HA! I don't read his nonsense. I know what he's saying without having to read it. He's finding reasons that may or may not be factually correct but in a manner that allows him to 'win' the argument. "Salil's approval"? No thanks. I don't want approval from a guy that probably votes with his Republican heroes against such initiatives as the one here that just passed allowing equal rights for gay people. No - I surely don't want anyone's approval like that, fo-sho.

                                        <<<but the fact is, and all the rational people here know it, that I argue with precision and evidence. I do not shift goalposts, >>>

                                        <HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA THIS is actually one of the only points that almost EVERYONE here WILL agree on!!! We are all sometimes wrong, some admit it, some change the subject, only YOU attempt to change what the subject or context was. LOL.>

                                        See?

                                        <Nor there are ANY resistance groups around the Middle East that references the Quran to kill innocents.>

                                        Oh lordy.
                        • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                          Wed, November 4, 2009 - 4:23 PM
                          <Today, it's Islam which has to make a shift. Not, Christianity.>

                          Well said, Adam.

                          Too bad that for this to happen, rank and file Muslims are going to have to learn to speak out AGAINST the groups that are committing these heinous acts.

                          Has anyone seen anyone here do that?

                          Has "~*~:"? Nope. He excuses and rationalizes the actions of 'his' people that commit these acts when he should be unequivocably speaking out against those acts that CAUSE harm to befall 'his' people.

                          For instance, www.wvinter.net/~haught/Koran.html

                          Sure, a lot of it does not necessarily speak about intentional killing of non-Muslims, some is about the intentional killing even other Muslims, but ... some does.

                          Sura 9.5: "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush,..."

                          Why do you not speak out against the 'anti-Islamic' actions of Hamas and such that try to intentionally kill innocent people? You're supposed to struggle against THESE people also, as you not? Instead, you SUPPORT them...

                          Now, I gotta go. Good luck rationalizing the very quotes that 'your' side uses in order to try to kill innocent people.
                      • .
                        .
                        offline 39

                        Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                        Wed, November 4, 2009 - 3:40 PM
                        <Salil, I understand that you have assigned yourself the role of some sort of academia specialist, but, well, you have yet to prove that you deserve this station, so I take everything you say with a grain of salt. >

                        Oh, actually I've done quite a bit to deserve this station, and I've proven it time and time again.

                        You on the other hand have clearly failed to exhibit anything resembling a comprehensive view of the Quran, and Islam in general.

                        The Quran does not justify anything, period. The Quran can most certainly be interpreted to justify the taking of 'innocent' life.

                        www.usc.edu/schools/coll....html#008.012

                        " I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them."

                        Sorry, disbelieving does not render one 'not innocent'
                        • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                          Wed, November 4, 2009 - 3:59 PM
                          "and I've proven it time and time again." in your mind.



                          "The Quran does not justify anything, period."

                          what about self defense? :

                          "To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight) because they are wronged― and verily, Allah is Most powerful for their aid" (Quran 22:39)



                          "The Quran can most certainly be interpreted to justify the taking of 'innocent' life."

                          Only for those who want to find that justification, because in truth the Qur'an isn't ambiguous about this issue at all:

                          "if anyone slew a person―unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land― it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if anyone saved a life it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people." (Quran 5:32)



                          "disbelieving does not render one 'not innocent' "

                          Absolutely. Taken out of context that sounds horrible.
                          • .
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                            offline 39

                            Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                            Wed, November 4, 2009 - 4:15 PM
                            No - the Quran does not justify anything. ONLY INTERPRETATIONS OF THE TEXT JUSTIFY ANYTHING.


                            Good grief.



                            Your quotes clearly indicate an interpretation that justifies self defense. The quote I provided is just as easily interpreted to understood that non believers should be killed.

                            Your delusional resistance to this does not make it less so.
                    • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                      Thu, November 5, 2009 - 1:45 AM
                      The dumb kafer named Salil:

                      I have been looking at this thread where you continuously spew your ass-related assertions as usual in here in relation to the Quran in a cheap attempt to discredit the Quran in a failed attempt to justify the current zionazi US-backed motherfuckery in Iraq, Afghanistan, or even Palestine and the rest of the the middle east and the Muslim world. Similar to your usual donkey-ness about swine in Christianity, Al Haram Al Sharif in Jerusalem, the Torah, etc etc etc....

                      I wrote many things but i decided to earse and make this nice and short.


                      The Quran does not in anyway make it ok for the believers to just "kill innocents." Nor there are ANY resistance groups around the Middle East that references the Quran to kill innocents. Your stupidity about "Hamas's charter" does not reference to any Quran verses as being spewed here, not even the Taliban.

                      Instead the Quran talks about how to deal with the infidel’s aggression (such as yours) towards the believers. The ONLY ones that use the Quran OUT OF CONTEXT continuously are the ones like your faggot government/military that supports the whores of the nazi-zion in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, and the rest of the Middle East Muslim world.



                      Conclusion:

                      All of the Quran verses you and the whores of zion here are using are all taken out of context. Its crystal clear and of is no rocket science. Re the Muslims resistance against your current infidel aggression in Muslim world, is also false. Whoever creates FITNA in our world is subject to being slaughtered. Fitna, war, killing of INNOCENT MUSLIMS, ya zbaleh, like what you are doing in IRAQ and AFGHANISTAN, SUDAN, and the rest of the Muslim world.

                      The following Holy Quran verse sums up everything regarding the people who do not aggress towards the believers, therefore making it clear for you and the rest of your khara team here (you piece of stinking infidel ignorance you):



                      The Quran 60:7-9

                      << 060.007 It may be that God will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For God has power (over all things); And God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

                      060.008 God forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for God loveth those who are just.

                      060.009 God only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong. >>


                      See who and how ya zbaleh? I want to see how Hamas or even the Taliban are using the Quran out of context ya zbaleh. Show me the links. And I already know you won't and you will be full of red cow shit as usual. There is no contradiction in the Holy Quran about as you are spewing out of your cheap ass here.


                      This everyone-condemned attack against the poor girl’s school described above is a perpetration by the US-backed puppets in order to keep Pakistan subjugated, similar to what you do in Iraq, and even the homeless zionazis in Palestine where its known how the cheap mossad does such acts to justify more homeless zionazi motherfuckery in Palestine and against the Palestinians.


                      And just before I finish, here is another version of your fucked reading/writing comprehension mr. academia specialist TEEZE:


                      Andrew: "I know that this is a lie because I know that the Qur'an does not condone attacks on innocent civilians"

                      The dumb Kafer: "No, its not a lie. That is exactly what they do. "

                      Andrew is talking about how he knows for certain <that the QURAN does not justify the murder of innocents>, AND THEN HOW people (such as yourself) lie about it.


                      Sami;
                      • .
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                        offline 39

                        Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                        Thu, November 5, 2009 - 7:39 AM
                        Sami, you live in a fantasy world.

                        The Quran does indeed contradict itself.

                        www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/qu...tml

                        And your constant references to the Sudan just illustrate your total ignorance. You're claiming that US actions IN THE SUDAN caused the Islamic violence against peaceful xtians and animists in Darfur?

                        You're blaming the US on the actions of the Taliban in Pakistan?

                        wow. its people like you that keep Palestine subjugated. Good job.



                        • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                          Mon, November 9, 2009 - 12:11 AM
                          Salil:

                          Do you think I give a flying damn about you or your feelings? Again, you cowardly made more stupid dumb claims that you failed to support, the "use of the Holy Quran to justify murder of innocents by the Islamic resistance in the middle east."

                          I want links that show how Hamas (and her charter), or the Taliban MISUSING the Holy Quran you cheap coward you.. Hell I want links from Shiekh Osama bin Laden too! You and your dumb disciples here failed to support these dumb claims.

                          And then after all that, you want to continue your dumb claims against the Quran without any support and be respected for it? No. You will be degraded to your actual level for your disgracing failure to support your dumb claims. I am glad there is a biased moderator here who will sympathize with your coward false complaints, so you can feel like a man (while you are not).


                          But it doesn’t bother me at all, because what leads to the name calling is the complete disgracing failure to support your dumb claims and then disrespecting people who try to discuss it and schooling and exposing your utter ignorance about it.



                          "The Quran does indeed contradict itself. "

                          Thank you for the perfect example of how the Holy Quran is used out of context completely by hating whores around the world, not by Muslims (be them good, bad, terrorists, anyone!). But guess what, why don't you invent a book that is better than the Holy Quran if it’s full of contradictions, you miserable cheap propagandist you?

                          But again, I want links that prove how the Islamic resistance misusing the Quran! Show us again how you are a clueless kafer again! The same stupidity in the Fayyad thread, how you made dumb comments and failed to support them, how you were schooled about your soldier right in the military by yours truly.

                          Sami;
                          • .
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                            offline 39

                            Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                            Mon, November 9, 2009 - 8:34 AM
                            Sami, you can bluster on with your ad homs and personal attacks, but you are simply ignorant of your own religion.


                            The vast majority of Saudi clerics consider bin Laden to be a heretic and that he, along with all Qutbists, misuse the Quran. Yet you have the audacity to disagree? I have provided you mountains of evidence, you just shut your ears and your eyes and refuse to see the truth.

                            www.mideastweb.org/osamabinladen2.htm
                      • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                        Thu, November 5, 2009 - 9:49 AM

                        Dear Sami - this is your last warning.

                        For the umpteenth time, name calling and insulting is NOT allowed here.

                        If I get another complaint, I will have no choice but to boot you.
                        • Re: underhandedness versus being a man

                          Fri, November 6, 2009 - 5:21 PM
                          Dear Inna, I've been following the conversations lately and it seems Salil is at least as guilty as Sami. If you're gonna strictly enforce whatever it is you accuse him of, then you need to give Salil a warning too. Otherwise, you're being biased. I personally don't mind 'bold' discussions and rather enjoy absolute freedom of speech. Certain people need to be put in their place sometimes, particularly when they're extremely arrogant, full of themselves (and it) and hypocritical, wink wink. If that is somehow not allowed here, then you won't have to boot me. I'll most probably take my opinions elsewhere. Besides, double standards aren't exactly my thing.

                          Since complaints matter so much to you (or seem to have an effect), whether they're warranted or not, let this serve as a public complaint against the hypocritical complainer(s) that is cowardly flooding your inbox. Too bad you choose to respond to such petty underhanded tactics though. Anyone that has been paying any attention at all knows that Sami is a respectable individual and a knowledgeable and valuable contributor to this forum. If someone sets out to insult him personally [such as Salil who's intimidated all too often by people more knowledgeable than him], then he has every right to strike back. Look at it this way: he's man enough not to bother you with petty complaints or to try to get to the other person through you. So please, if and when there's a problem, don't just react to one sided complaints and enable cowardly sissy-ass tactics. The basis of your issue in this particular case clearly is not Sami. It's Salil.

                          But what do I care? I'm not the one suffering through God only knows how many daily "complaints" ;-)
                          • Re: underhandedness versus being a man

                            Fri, November 6, 2009 - 7:58 PM
                            <Dear Inna, I've been following the conversations lately and it seems Salil is at least as guilty as Sami.>

                            HA! Salil NEVER (almost never?) uses adhoms/direct insults. You and Sami are the queens of that.

                            Why don't you find ONE quote of his? Just ONE. I dare you. Of course, you'll say something ridiculous such as how you don't have time or care to look...but it's all your usual nonsense. You probably won't find it.


                          • .
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                            offline 39

                            Re: underhandedness versus being a man

                            Sat, November 7, 2009 - 7:39 AM
                            Dimi, there you go lying again. First off, I don't call people names the way you and sami do. That's against the tribe rules. Pointing out how ignorant your positions are is not.

                            Neither you nor Sami has ever managed to successfully defend a point with anything other than a string of ad homs and pure invention. Neither of you are more knowledgeable than me on these issues, and I am far, far, far from intimidated by either of you. But clearly you feel the need to keep promoting these fantasies of yours.
                            • Re: underhandedness versus being a man

                              Sat, November 7, 2009 - 9:54 AM
                              <<<I don't call people names the way you and sami do>>>

                              Yes you do use different names.
                              • .
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                                offline 39

                                Re: underhandedness versus being a man

                                Sat, November 7, 2009 - 3:00 PM
                                No, I dont, actually
                                • Re: underhandedness versus being a man

                                  Sun, November 8, 2009 - 1:01 AM
                                  A few Salilisms:

                                  hotshot
                                  freaking creepy dude
                                  You're a tough guy
                                  You're a joke
                                  Are you daft?
                                  you're a joke
                                  admit being a complete jackass,
                                  driveling homophobe
                                  you're a limp wristed Burning Man burnout

                                  all in ONE thread:
                                  tribes.tribe.net/mideastpo...02eb95583b

                                  even more ironically he also cries out in the SAME thread:

                                  "Wow, I just noticed how many times Andrew used the word 'idiot' in this post. I wonder why Carolyn hasnt banned him, anyway. I thought we had rules in this tribe?"

                                  "Have we just given up on the tribe rules? "
                                  • Re: underhandedness versus being a man

                                    Sun, November 8, 2009 - 2:07 AM
                                    <all in ONE thread:>

                                    John, keep that up and you'll soon be accused of 'stalking' him.

                                    <"Have we just given up on the tribe rules? ">

                                    Sadly for your argument, it would be difficult to make a case that any of those are against the TOU. Possible. But, when there's such overt Crimes Against TOU, those pale quotes of yours? Nonsense.

                                    <Funny thing is I believe ALL those names were directed at YOU andrew, LOL!!>

                                    Hmm. I'm not sure why that is humorous. But, hey - differn't strokes for differn't folks.
                                    • Re: underhandedness versus being a man

                                      Sun, November 8, 2009 - 1:37 PM
                                      <<<But, when there's such overt Crimes Against TOU, those pale quotes of yours? Nonsense. >>>

                                      I got to handed it to you, at least you are consistent. You use the same comparative rationalization to excuse these instances of rule breaking as you do in excusing Israeli violations or offenses.

                                      Rule says "Name calling and flaming will not be tolerated. "

                                      Name calling is an objective standard, it doesn't need to be compared to other (worse?) name calling to see if it is a violation.
                                      • .
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                                        offline 39

                                        Re: underhandedness versus being a man

                                        Mon, November 9, 2009 - 8:37 AM
                                        John, you're frankly full of cowpie.

                                        None of those are namecalling.

                                        Asking if someone is daft is not calling them daft. Its cute that you want to try and paint me as in violation of the tribe rules, but its clear, even to Andrew, that I'm not. Its also cute how you take words out of context of the sentence. If I use 'driveling homophobe' in a sentence its not the same as saying "John, you're a driveling homophobe"
                              • Re: underhandedness versus being a man

                                Sat, November 7, 2009 - 3:28 PM
                                <Yes you do use different names.>

                                Your confusion is that he says things that you do not understand and confuse you, and thus you think that he's insulting you. Maybe he is? Maybe not? If you knew enough to know enough, you'd know enough to know.
                                • Re: underhandedness versus being a man

                                  Sun, November 8, 2009 - 1:04 AM
                                  <<<Your confusion is that he says things that you do not understand and confuse you, and thus you think that he's insulting you. ..>>>

                                  Funny thing is I believe ALL those names were directed at YOU andrew, LOL!!

                                  PS: that is also the thread where you claimed that you don't read his posts or something to that effect.

                                  I just bumped it so you can find it more easily.
                          • Re: underhandedness versus being a man

                            Mon, November 9, 2009 - 12:55 AM
                            Dimi:

                            You have my full support and appreciation. You described my thoughts exactly about this whole thing, when I read it this morning. Its completely unfortunate that we have a totally unfair moderator here. But this shall never stop us from being truthful no matter what.

                            And I will also not hesitate to take my opinion else where as well, in a heart beat!

                            Cheers mate! Thanks.

                            Sami;
                        • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                          Mon, November 9, 2009 - 12:39 AM
                          Dear Inna:

                          Its not like I never expected this to come from you anytime now... But you are being wrong and utterly biased!

                          "Name calling will not be tolerated" sure, but why the name calling in the first place?

                          Its because the dumb salil cowardly fails in supporting his dumb claims and disrespecting people who try to defend/discuss things and expose his utter stupid ignorance about the subject.


                          Here is the TRIBE RULE that makes the "undulated name-calling" happen:

                          <<And it is now a requirement to add links to articles you post. Not opinion but articles. This is a serious subject and it is important to say where you get your info. >>


                          Your dumb salil failed to support any of his dumb claims and he was degraded to his actual level. very simple. But to be fair, I have shown this miserable propagandist respect ONLY when he deserved it, and still he would be jerk.

                          And as I told you before, I will never revert to you "when salil is being mean / (cheap coward in my terminology)." I don't do that because it’s completely against my ethics. I will respond in the best way that suits him (or anyone that makes dumb unsupported claims and fails to simply discuss things intelligently like an adult).

                          And at last, and I have said this to you already, and repeat here in public (because I don't appreciate PMs specially from the moderator who is making false accusations and completely ignoring the whole context of my statements), that IF you feel the need to boot me so this coward can leave you alone and stop cowardly flooding your inbox, then please do so.


                          This is not intended to hurt your feelings again, but you have got to moderate fairly (by enforcing ALL the RULES) before you simply falsely warn/boot people because of your personal favors of certain tribe members here.

                          Sami;
                          • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                            Mon, November 9, 2009 - 3:59 PM
                            <"Name calling will not be tolerated" sure, but why the name calling in the first place?>

                            Yes, it's always someone else's fault for you,'eh? It's the Israelis fault, the "Zionazis", the American's fault, the UN's fault - anyone but YOUR fault, 'eh?

                            <Its because the dumb salil cowardly fails in supporting his dumb claims and disrespecting people who try to defend/discuss things and expose his utter stupid ignorance about the subject.>

                            "dumb salil". Well. If Inna is to do her job, her job is to boot you.

                            Or, we can all start to talk like this. That's another option!

                            <You need to shut the fuck up and start supporting your claims like a real man instead of being like a sissy.>

                            I guess that this is your last salvo, 'eh? Going out with a 'bang'? How ironic and fitting.
                            • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                              Tue, November 10, 2009 - 3:23 AM
                              Andrew:

                              wow... It seems that you think that all mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, uncles are like your own, getting busy over each other and having cheap likes like you as the results?

                              "Well. If Inna is to do her job, her job is to boot you. "

                              bwahahahaha..... surely she will, ONLY if she favored your cheap ass, Andy boy. Since saloolti here despises your cheap zion ass, she won't.

                              Sami;
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                    Wed, November 4, 2009 - 3:59 PM
                    <Andrew the question is offensive. Who in their right mind would support any reason for an attack upon innocents?>

                    Your friend Dimi has. Sami has. But, perhaps you're right, you said "Who in their right mind", which means that they are out of this conversation...

                    <Besides, try to have a world-view that is slightly broader. We aren't talking about Israelis.>

                    You're right! We're talking about people from all over the world. Just a few of them evidenced here in this group. On 'your' side, none the less.
                    • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                      Wed, November 4, 2009 - 4:01 PM
                      Both Sami and Dimi have supported attacks on innocent civilians?

                      That is truly alarming :-(

                      Link, please?
                      • .
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                        offline 39

                        Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                        Wed, November 4, 2009 - 4:16 PM
                        Oh my god. Stop asking for handouts. Take a little time and read some of the threads. Both of them have defended and advocated violence against innocent zionists.
                        • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                          Thu, November 5, 2009 - 1:48 AM
                          <<Oh my god. Stop asking for handouts. Take a little time and read some of the threads. Both of them have defended and advocated violence against innocent zionists. >>

                          I would like to see where have I ever done all of this red cow shit you are spewing at us without any support. "violence against innocent " my ass.

                          or you lack support as similar to your donkeyness in the Fayyad thread?

                          Sami;
                          • .
                            .
                            offline 39

                            Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                            Thu, November 5, 2009 - 7:40 AM
                            you advocate and defend violence against Israelis constantly. How can you pretend otherwise?
                            • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                              Mon, November 9, 2009 - 12:46 AM
                              Salil:


                              first you say: ""Both of them have defended and advocated violence against innocent zionists""

                              then you say: "you advocate and defend violence against Israelis constantly"


                              See the difference when you simply get fucked for not being able to support your dumb utter ignorance claims and how you then cowardly manipulate your statements? And you want to be respected? Where is you support to your above dumb claims that I requested?


                              Hope our sweet moderator would see this clear example of your dumb-ary.


                              You need to shut the fuck up and start supporting your claims like a real man instead of being like a sissy.

                              Sami;
                              • .
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                                offline 39

                                Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                Mon, November 9, 2009 - 8:40 AM
                                Sami, I dont have to prove that humans breath air to you.

                                And your complete lack of critical reasoning ability is fully illustrated here:

                                <first you say: ""Both of them have defended and advocated violence against innocent zionists""

                                then you say: "you advocate and defend violence against Israelis constantly" >

                                These are not mutually exclusive statements. Seriously, quit embarrassing Palestinians.
                                • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                  Tue, November 10, 2009 - 3:33 AM
                                  "Sami, I dont have to prove that humans breath air to you. "

                                  Then shut the fuck up and stop making ridiculous dumb claims, such as:

                                  1. Hamas (or charter) uses the Quran to justify killing innocent,
                                  2. Not even Bin Laden.
                                  3. Not even Abu Sayyaf
                                  4. Not even the Egyptian brothers
                                  5. Not even one iraqi
                                  6. Not even Taliban
                                  7. Shishan
                                  8. etc etc etc.

                                  Because NONE of them (or any Muslim resistance) ever do/did. The only ones that use the Holy Quran out of context are people like you and the whores of the nazizion. As ~o~ demonstrated and kicked your cheap ass above.

                                  "<first you say: ""Both of them have defended and advocated violence against innocent zionists""

                                  then you say: "you advocate and defend violence against Israelis constantly" > "

                                  Actually, considering your fucked reading comprehension skills, you will never see how the first rediculous statement of yours ("against innocent zionists") and your second ("against israelis") are a clear examples of your cheap embarrassment to evade a dumb claim you can't support.

                                  Sami;
                                  • .
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                                    offline 39

                                    Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                    Tue, November 10, 2009 - 7:41 AM
                                    Sami, howabout you learn to read?

                                    I provided you with a link where Bin Laden clearly advocates killing innocents, and uses the Quran to defend his position.


                                    So howabout you shut the fuck up and shake off the brainwashing?

                                    And if you knew anything about logic sets or venn diagrams, you would understand how my two statements regarding innocent zionists and israelis are not mutually exclusive and perfectly accurate.

                                    See, the difference between you and me is that my reading comprehension and critical reasoning skills have been tested rigorously throughout my life. You couldnt even answer a simple critical reasoning question after days of trying to get your friends to help you with it.
                                  • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                    Tue, November 10, 2009 - 11:44 AM
                                    Sami:
                                    > 1. Hamas (or charter) uses the Quran to justify killing innocent,

                                    Yet again, here's one example:

                                    "... Hamas has been looking forward to implement Allah’s promise whatever time it might take. The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!"

                                    www.thejerusalemfund.org/www.t...r.html

                                    "Fight the Jews (and kill them)"

                                    Care to comment on that quote?
                                    • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                      Tue, November 10, 2009 - 11:58 PM
                                      Thanks, Adam.

                                      But if you read carefully the subject of all my posts in response to the stupidity of the "left-behind" tribe member, I was requesting proof for ANY Islamic resistance group "misusing" the HOLY QURAN (with actual verses) and specifically advocating the murder of "innocents."

                                      You can pick any of my list above, since you are the best muslim hater here, I am sure you will have extra abilities in finding solid credible links that support the claim of "using the Quran to justify murder of innocent." So show us what you got.


                                      ""Fight the Jews (and kill them)"

                                      Still no reference to OK murdering the <<innocent>> even in the hadith.



                                      And for the poor left-behind clueless tribe member: fuck off wala..

                                      Sami;
                                      • .
                                        .
                                        offline 39

                                        Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                        Wed, November 11, 2009 - 1:03 AM
                                        Oh, we get it, all Jews and Americans are not innocent. Ok Sami, thanks for that insight into your racist and hateful mind. You are exactly why Islam is suffering.
                                        • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                          Wed, November 11, 2009 - 1:22 AM
                                          "all Jews and Americans are not innocent"

                                          oh salil.... wallahi i feel sorry for you. where did this insight come from? twisted!

                                          "You are exactly why Islam is suffering."

                                          Islam was never suffering, as much as you want it to.

                                          Sami;
                                          • .
                                            .
                                            offline 39

                                            Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                            Wed, November 11, 2009 - 3:01 AM
                                            Oh Sami, this is the only way you can explain away the quotes and evidence provided to you.

                                            Try to follow the simply reasoning here - I know its logical so its going to automatically difficult for you:

                                            You claim that no one uses the Quran to justify killing innocents
                                            We provided evidence where people use the Quran to justify killing Americans and Jews
                                            Most Americans and Jews are innocent

                                            therefore

                                            we have provided evidence where people use the Quran to justify killing innocents.

                                            QED.
                                            • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                              Wed, November 11, 2009 - 6:18 AM
                                              bwhahahaha... As I told you before, your logic is a pure joke, habibi salil.

                                              And I am talking to Adam. you had your chance and you flunked it. so get lost.

                                              Sami;
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                                                offline 39

                                                Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                                                Wed, November 11, 2009 - 9:54 AM
                                                And just because you say it, it doesnt mean its true. Sami, you wouldnt know loic if it smacked you in the nose. You've clearly never read Aristotle, nor have you ever been introduced to rudimentary critical thinking. Not ever. Its blatantly obvious. No matter how much you pretend otherwise, your delusions don't include the rest of us.
          • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

            Tue, November 3, 2009 - 7:39 PM
            ~*~:
            > Again. Please provide more substance to your rhetoric. Even the slightest bit.

            "The Taliban claimed to recognize their Islamic duty to offer education to both boys and girls, yet a decree was passed that banned girls above the age of 8 from receiving instruction. ... We have given women the rights that God and His Messenger have instructed, that is to stay in their homes and to gain religious instruction in hijab [seclusion]”

            en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tali...t_of_women

            " ... women who did not wear the hijab would have acid thrown in their faces.

            Since militants of pro-Taliban cleric Maulana Fazlullah established their own government in Swat in October 2007, over 100 girls' schools have been destroyed."

            www.alertnet.org/db/blogs/...4846-1.htm
            • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

              Tue, November 3, 2009 - 7:43 PM
              <Since militants of pro-Taliban cleric Maulana Fazlullah established their own government in Swat in October 2007, over 100 girls' schools have been destroyed.">

              Ha. So..............are you whateveryournameis saying that the Taliban are not using the Koran to excuse and make appropriate these actions? What about Fatwas coming out of the Iranian government?

              Come on. Like EVERY religious book, some will take advantage of the parts that they like to do evil deeds. My point is that many of today's Muslim leaderships are modern day Crusaders...
              • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                Wed, November 4, 2009 - 9:17 AM
                "My point is that many of today's Muslim leaderships are modern day Crusaders... "

                So exactly which Muslim Holy lands are the Taliban trying to reclaim?? Or don't you understand the Crusades?
                • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                  Wed, November 4, 2009 - 4:07 PM
                  <<"My point is that many of today's Muslim leaderships are modern day Crusaders... ">>

                  <So exactly which Muslim Holy lands are the Taliban trying to reclaim?? Or don't you understand the Crusades?>

                  Stay with us, Martin. That's why I wrote "modern day Crusaders". Since Hamas and so many Muslim groups want a pan-Islamic state to take over the whole of the Middle East, I think that it's fair to call them "modern day Crusaders". Or, do you not KNOW that this is their stated goal? Please let me know if you need to be educated about this fact and reality.

                  <Salil, I understand that you have assigned yourself the role of some sort of academia specialist, but, well, you have yet to prove that you deserve this station, so I take everything you say with a grain of salt.>

                  Or a cup - but feel free to argue with him using at least SOME cites and facts. I have found it to be impossible, because he'll just continue to change the argument or move some goalposts (same thing, I suppose), but at least you can TRY to use some of the most BASIC research to prove your point besides just saying, 'I am right'. That's not a very intelligent thing to do.

                  <Also, I appreciate that you seem to enjoy spreading your critiques liberally in all directions, but to suggest that I am spewing 'retardation' is unnecessary and counter-productive.>

                  Ha. YOU saying that something "is unnecessary and counter-productive"? Really? No shit? Don't like it when someone ELSE responds to you in the kind of manner and language that YOU use? Really?

                  <The Qur'an does not justify the killing of innocent life. Prove me wrong and provide the verse. Simple.>

                  That was NEVER my point. My point that various Muslim groups and governments use the Koran to excuse, explain and order attacks against innocent people. Surely you are not trying to say that this is not true... Just as Duke explained away that dentist's slaughter and mass-murder of Muslims, I can find many quotes probably within a few hours of just a fraction of all of the Muslim groups and government's statements supporting the killing of innocent people by way of Koran quotes.

                  The same way that the Torah is very ugly and violent in parts... The settlers often will use the Torah as an excuse to continue to try to stay in the West Bank and to terrorize the local population. So, Jews are not innocent of this, the difference being scope and actual speech to action.

                  <I was pointing Andrew to the opportunity to step outside of the hype and actually learn a bit about what the Qur'an teaches.>

                  I recognize that in most religious books, there are parts that are ugly and no longer relevant... That does not mean that one should not place blame where it's legitimately deserved - an issue that you seem unable to maturely and honestly recognize.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
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                    offline 39

                    Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                    Wed, November 4, 2009 - 4:18 PM
                    Oh Andrew, seriously? Its cute that you're projecting your debating style on me, but the fact is, and all the rational people here know it, that I argue with precision and evidence. I do not shift goalposts, nor do I indulge in logical fallacy. I've schooled you time and time again, and we all know it.
                    • Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                      Wed, November 4, 2009 - 11:53 PM
                      <<<but the fact is, and all the rational people here know it, that I argue with precision and evidence. I do not shift goalposts, >>>

                      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

                      THIS is actually one of the only points that almost EVERYONE here WILL agree on!!!

                      We are all sometimes wrong, some admit it, some change the subject, only YOU attempt to change what the subject or context was. LOL.

                      Remember the infamous 'Muslims use the Old Testament as a Holy Book argument?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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                        offline 39

                        Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                        Thu, November 5, 2009 - 7:44 AM
                        You're absolutely wrong John. You just dont like to be shown to have extremely poor rhetorical and logical ability. For instance the argument was 'Muslims use the Old Testament', and that argument was supported by several instances of Muslim scholars relying on the Old Testament for evidence.

                        You simply didn't know that because of your limited experience and knowledge on the subject.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Militants blow up Pakistan girls school

                    Wed, November 4, 2009 - 4:21 PM

                    "Ha. YOU saying that something "is unnecessary and counter-productive"? Really? No shit? Don't like it when someone ELSE responds to you in the kind of manner and language that YOU use? Really?"

                    Andrew, I have the tendency to respond in kind.

                    You enjoy engaging in vulgarities like they are going out of style. Salil, on the other hand, doesn't seem to find that approach necessary.

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