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Last update - 08:22 28/10/2009
Aluf Benn / Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?
By Aluf Benn, Haaretz Correspondent
I want to know how and why it was decided to embark on Operation Cast Lead in the Gaza Strip and to expand it into a ground offensive. I want to know if the decisions were affected by the Israeli election campaign then underway and the change in U.S. presidents. I want to know if the leaders who launched the operation correctly judged the political damage it would cause Israel and what they did to minimize it. I want to know if those who gave orders to the Israel Defense Forces assumed that hundreds of Palestinian civilians would be killed, and how they tried to prevent this.
These questions should be at the center of an investigation into Operation Cast Lead. An investigation is necessary because of the political complexities that resulted from the operation, the serious harm to Palestinian civilians, the Goldstone report and its claims of war crimes, and the limits that will be imposed on the IDF's freedom of operation in the future. There is no room to argue that the government should be allowed to govern without interference and investigations, with the public passing judgment at the ballot box. The government changed after the Gaza operation and the questions remain troublesome.
The investigations by the army and Military Police are meant to examine soldiers' behavior on the battlefield. They are no substitute for a comprehensive examination of the activities of the political leadership and senior command, who are responsible for an operation and its results. It's not the company or battalion commanders who need to be investigated, but former prime minister Ehud Olmert, Defense Minister Ehud Barak, former foreign minister Tzipi Livni, Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi, and the heads of the intelligence chiefs and Foreign Ministry, who were party to the decisions. It is also important to investigate Barak and Livni's election campaign advisers to find out if and how the campaign affected the military and diplomatic efforts.
The following questions require answers:
Why did the "cease-fire" agreement between Israel and Hamas collapse, and who decided and why on an IDF operation against the tunnel uncovered near the Gaza border on November 4, which resulted in renewed escalation in the south?
Before embarking on Cast Lead, were diplomatic alternatives explored for achieving calm in the south? Was Hamas' proposal for renewing calm in exchange for opening crossings seriously considered in Israel, or did the government only want a military operation?
How did the rising popularity of the opposition parties, Benjamin Netanyahu and Avigdor Lieberman, as reflected in polls at the time, affect Barak and Livni's stances before and during the operation?
What was the importance of image as informed by concepts such as "restoring deterrence" and "overcoming the trauma of the Second Lebanon War" in the decisions to embark on the operation and introduce ground forces?
Did the cabinet receive assessments that discussed the possibility that hundreds of Palestinian women and children would be killed? Did ministers voice fiery rhetoric at cabinet meetings that could have been understood as encouragement to harm Palestinian civilians? Did Olmert and Attorney General Menachem Mazuz intervene and silence such voices?
How did the personal and political infighting between Olmert, Barak and Livni affect the decision making? Why did Barak support a humanitarian cease-fire immediately after the operation began, and why did Olmert and Livni reject his proposal? Why did Livni change her position as the fighting ensued and Olmert insisted on continuing the operation?
Who decided to bomb the flour mill and sewage treatment center in Gaza, and why?
Did Olmert weigh the expected damage to Israel at the United Nations when he rejected the Security Council's call for an immediate cease-fire?
Where did Olmert disappear to on January 13 when Barak and Livni could not find him in an effort to offer a cease-fire?
A state commission of inquiry should be established. Such committees have been set up before for significantly less important issues than the war in Gaza. But the political reality is paralyzing: The defense minister and the chief of staff fear the fate of their predecessors who lost their jobs because of the Yom Kippur War and the two Lebanon wars. The prime minister is afraid of Barak and Ashkenazi. The Knesset State Control Committee under Kadima's Yoel Hasson will not initiate an investigation against Livni. Without a state commission of inquiry, State Comptroller Micha Lindenstrauss must undertake the role himself. He has already proved that he is afraid of neither Olmert nor Barak.
www.haaretz.com/hasen/spag...190.html#at
Refreshing to see sensible Israelis are waking up to the need for a thorough investigation. Goldstone report looks to have served it's purpose.
Aluf Benn / Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?
By Aluf Benn, Haaretz Correspondent
I want to know how and why it was decided to embark on Operation Cast Lead in the Gaza Strip and to expand it into a ground offensive. I want to know if the decisions were affected by the Israeli election campaign then underway and the change in U.S. presidents. I want to know if the leaders who launched the operation correctly judged the political damage it would cause Israel and what they did to minimize it. I want to know if those who gave orders to the Israel Defense Forces assumed that hundreds of Palestinian civilians would be killed, and how they tried to prevent this.
These questions should be at the center of an investigation into Operation Cast Lead. An investigation is necessary because of the political complexities that resulted from the operation, the serious harm to Palestinian civilians, the Goldstone report and its claims of war crimes, and the limits that will be imposed on the IDF's freedom of operation in the future. There is no room to argue that the government should be allowed to govern without interference and investigations, with the public passing judgment at the ballot box. The government changed after the Gaza operation and the questions remain troublesome.
The investigations by the army and Military Police are meant to examine soldiers' behavior on the battlefield. They are no substitute for a comprehensive examination of the activities of the political leadership and senior command, who are responsible for an operation and its results. It's not the company or battalion commanders who need to be investigated, but former prime minister Ehud Olmert, Defense Minister Ehud Barak, former foreign minister Tzipi Livni, Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi, and the heads of the intelligence chiefs and Foreign Ministry, who were party to the decisions. It is also important to investigate Barak and Livni's election campaign advisers to find out if and how the campaign affected the military and diplomatic efforts.
The following questions require answers:
Why did the "cease-fire" agreement between Israel and Hamas collapse, and who decided and why on an IDF operation against the tunnel uncovered near the Gaza border on November 4, which resulted in renewed escalation in the south?
Before embarking on Cast Lead, were diplomatic alternatives explored for achieving calm in the south? Was Hamas' proposal for renewing calm in exchange for opening crossings seriously considered in Israel, or did the government only want a military operation?
How did the rising popularity of the opposition parties, Benjamin Netanyahu and Avigdor Lieberman, as reflected in polls at the time, affect Barak and Livni's stances before and during the operation?
What was the importance of image as informed by concepts such as "restoring deterrence" and "overcoming the trauma of the Second Lebanon War" in the decisions to embark on the operation and introduce ground forces?
Did the cabinet receive assessments that discussed the possibility that hundreds of Palestinian women and children would be killed? Did ministers voice fiery rhetoric at cabinet meetings that could have been understood as encouragement to harm Palestinian civilians? Did Olmert and Attorney General Menachem Mazuz intervene and silence such voices?
How did the personal and political infighting between Olmert, Barak and Livni affect the decision making? Why did Barak support a humanitarian cease-fire immediately after the operation began, and why did Olmert and Livni reject his proposal? Why did Livni change her position as the fighting ensued and Olmert insisted on continuing the operation?
Who decided to bomb the flour mill and sewage treatment center in Gaza, and why?
Did Olmert weigh the expected damage to Israel at the United Nations when he rejected the Security Council's call for an immediate cease-fire?
Where did Olmert disappear to on January 13 when Barak and Livni could not find him in an effort to offer a cease-fire?
A state commission of inquiry should be established. Such committees have been set up before for significantly less important issues than the war in Gaza. But the political reality is paralyzing: The defense minister and the chief of staff fear the fate of their predecessors who lost their jobs because of the Yom Kippur War and the two Lebanon wars. The prime minister is afraid of Barak and Ashkenazi. The Knesset State Control Committee under Kadima's Yoel Hasson will not initiate an investigation against Livni. Without a state commission of inquiry, State Comptroller Micha Lindenstrauss must undertake the role himself. He has already proved that he is afraid of neither Olmert nor Barak.
www.haaretz.com/hasen/spag...190.html#at
Refreshing to see sensible Israelis are waking up to the need for a thorough investigation. Goldstone report looks to have served it's purpose.
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?
Wed, October 28, 2009 - 10:55 PM<Why did the "cease-fire" agreement between Israel and Hamas collapse,>
I believe that repeated attacks by Hamas & Co. may be the Israeli excuse, 'eh?
<and who decided and why on an IDF operation against the tunnel uncovered near the Gaza border on November 4, which resulted in renewed escalation in the south?>
Why does it matter? What was Israel to do? Ask Hamas nicely to destroy their own tunnel?
<Before embarking on Cast Lead, were diplomatic alternatives explored for achieving calm in the south?>
Wait, "diplomatic alternatives" with Hamas? Really?
<Was Hamas' proposal for renewing calm in exchange for opening crossings seriously considered in Israel, or did the government only want a military operation?>
How can one take ANY of their proposals seriously?
<Who decided to bomb the flour mill and sewage treatment center in Gaza, and why?>
War is hell.
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?
Thu, October 29, 2009 - 12:50 AMIsrael broke ceasefire by killing six
www.irishtimes.com/newspape...7173.html
Gaza truce broken as Israeli raid kills six Hamas gunmen
www.guardian.co.uk/world/20...estinians
<<<Why does it matter? What was Israel to do? Ask Hamas nicely to destroy their own tunnel?
Wait, "diplomatic alternatives" with Hamas? Really?
How can one take ANY of their proposals seriously?
War is hell. >>>
and the Internet remains a free zone with no minimum intellectual threshold... -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?
Thu, October 29, 2009 - 1:09 AM<Israel broke ceasefire by killing six>
Are you unaware that there was a tunnel dug into Israel?
First of all, what about this? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File...a_2008.JPG
See those attacks? How many per month from Gaza?
June: 8
July: 12
August: 11
Sept: 4
Oct: 2
So, up to then - through ~37 attacks from Gaza that broke the cease-fire where Israel did little or nothing during this period, FINALLY Israel decides that a tunnel - the same kind that caused Shalit to become kidnapped - is too much, and they go in to destroy the tunnel AFTER telling the Egyptians to tell Hamas that Israel will be going in to destroy said tunnel. The Pals have a choice: Defend their cease-fire-breaking tunnel, or do nothing. They choose to defend their criminal tunnel and Israel kill six of them. What does Hamas & Co. do? They fire 193 mortars and rockets at Israel. Because Israel went in to destroy this tunnel.
www.ynet.co.il/english/ar...798,00.html
That to you is reasonable? That's Israel breaking the law?
Here's a line for you that shows how ignorant and bigoted that you are: Pals broke ceasefire by shooting eight mortars/rockets in first month of ceasefire.
Like that?
How did the Israelis find out about this tunnel? "Palestinian sources told Ynet that IDF forces had recently arrested a Palestinian who was hurt while attempting to carry out a suicide bombing in the same area and that they assumed the man told the security forces about the tunnel dug in Gaza during his interrogation....That information is believed to be the catalyst for the operation."
Is this not breaking the cease-fire, John? Are you ignorant of this fact or are you dishonest? I really know that the answer could go either way.
And, since you are unable to do your own research, please allow me to help you: www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso...l#a1
Here, I'll quote some of it for you. 'On June 17, 2008, after several months of indirect contacts between Israel and Hamas through Egyptian mediators, Hamas agreed to a cease-fire (tahadiya). Almost immediately afterward, terrorists fired rockets into southern Israel. Despite what it called a “gross violation” of the truce, Israel refrained from military action.1 In fact, during the six months the arrangement was supposed to be observed, 329 rockets and mortar shells were fired at Israel.2'
Hmm. How do you like THAT!? Looks like Israel was not the first to break the cease-fire, 'eh?
But, I'll go on!
But, don't believe me: "“I say in all honesty, we made contact with leaders in Hamas in the Gaza Strip. We spoke with them in all honesty and directly, and after that we spoke with them indirectly, through more than one Arab and non-Arab side... We spoke with them on the telephone and we said: 'We beg of you, we hope that you won't break [the ceasefire.] As the [Egyptian foreign] Minister said: 'Don't break the ceasefire, the ceasefire must continue and not stop.' In order to avoid [violence] that has happened. If only we had avoided it.”
— PA President Mahmoud Abbas2b
So? How is it POSSIBLE that Israel broke the truce when the Pals had been shooting mortars and rockets at Israel ALL THROUGHOUT the "truce"? Or, do you doubt the numbers that I quoted? There's no other option. Either the numbers are wrong, the cites are wrong or YOU are wrong.
Which one is it?
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?
Thu, October 29, 2009 - 1:25 AMdonkeys with keyboards make my day. -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?
Thu, October 29, 2009 - 1:32 AM
See what I mean? You're not very clever.
I post absolute facts, unassailable information proving that you're wrong, and that's the best that you can come up with? There's no question that the Pals broke the cease-fire. There's no question that Israel held back for......four months before doing anything? Even THEN, they first told Egypt to tell Hamas that they were going to go in - which means that they DID NOT break the cease-fire.
You're wrong, but you can't admit that you're wrong.
Gee, I wonder why? -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?
Thu, October 29, 2009 - 10:46 AMIt is indeed humorous that you aren't even aware of who made the ceasefire agreement with Israel or who was firing missiles during that period.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste. -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?
Thu, October 29, 2009 - 12:38 PMyou may not like the outcome tho missles lobbed into israel sure indicates that
conflict is inevitable,,,,and "john" , are you here for discussion or just to show
how calling others idiots makes for intelligence,,,of which your partisan behvior could use more
inquiries into a broader history,,,,everyone in the middle east is a victim and everyone accelerates,,,
and perpetuates what has happened before,,,either they learn to live as neighbors or they will keep doing what they are doing,,,, -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?
Thu, October 29, 2009 - 1:40 PM<<and "john" , are you here for discussion or just to show
how calling others idiots makes for intelligence,>>>
"Sol" there is many here that you can not discuss anything with.
And since accusation of my racism I don't consider you worth the effort either.
As far as pointing out idiocy, yes I call a spade a spade.
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?
Thu, October 29, 2009 - 3:42 PM<It is indeed humorous that you aren't even aware of who made the ceasefire agreement with Israel or who was firing missiles during that period.>
What is humorous (or, sad in your case) is that Hamas will make a 'truce', but then allow other groups to attack Israel - if they're not doing it themselves... WHEN Hamas wants to, they stop attacks. So, it's obvious to any intelligent person that if there are attacks, it's with Hamas' AOK.
<A mind is a terrible thing to waste.>
No shit. I hope in your case that it's not a genetic component to your obvious bias issues.
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 5:48 AMJohn:
Andy is too dumb to figure that out. Especially that I have discussed this before with links from HAARETZ talking about how the Gaza truce was violated by the zio-nazis and how the resistance group named (ALJIHAD) had fired these rockets as a retaliation.
This is the article that discusses this show how Israel knows that the WEST BANK AND GAZA which andrew will never use his brain to figure out anything.... I posted this link before, but unsurprisingly, Andrew's ass that does the reading for him, and his ill-thinking brain as a result, never comprehended anything....
www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/995738.html
Sami;
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Thu, October 29, 2009 - 2:27 PMAndy: "I believe that repeated attacks by Hamas & Co. may be the Israeli excuse, 'eh?"
You believe wrong, as always.
Andy: "Why does it matter?"
Such an utterly dumb question is to be expected from a hopelessly racist war crimes apologist such as yourself. Feeling proud lately, baby killer?
Andy: "Wait, "diplomatic alternatives" with Hamas? Really?"
I'm waiting but not holding my breath. God you're dumb.
Andy: "How can one take ANY of their proposals seriously?"
If you're zionist slime, I can see where you're coming from. Why hold back and not just grab whatever you can, right? Take other people's shit by force... I mean, what are they gonna do, right? If you can you can... You've got American supplied bombs and shit, they don't, so fuck em, right? Hey, do you steal from people too, Andy? Did your parents tell you it's okay because Jews throughout history had their shit jacked? See, this is why I don't trust your type, at all. Go on, add that one to the folder of favourite dimi quotes;-)
Andy: "War is hell."
No. Israel is hell => IsraHell.
John to Andy: "It is indeed humorous that you aren't even aware of who made the ceasefire agreement with Israel or who was firing missiles during that period."
Yeah, priceless stuff. But he really thinks highly of himself. God, what a complete moron.
John: "donkeys with keyboards make my day."
Ever seen a moaning donkey? LOL!
John: "I call a spade a spade"
Oh oh, don't let Salil catch you saying that. He called me a racist for doing so. Racist, anti-Semite, hollocaust ... Do these terms mean anything anymore? -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Thu, October 29, 2009 - 4:11 PMand people wonder why there can't be peace in the middle east,,,especially with wind bags hiding behind a computor,,,hey for everyone that likes to be bigoted,,,,does your god know that you are on an infidel site,,,,in between jerking off and telling zionists where to go,,,you sure are a brave bunch,,,
why not wonder why other arabs don't allow a kurdistan,,,or why muslims kill other muslims and whoever gets in the way,,,its too easy not to go after thugs of your own religion,,,,
and before you say something else about me thats stupid,,,I have a long record for speaking out against settlers and atrocities of both sides,,,tho I am not jewish, its their ancestral homeland and they deserve to be in that area,,,
god willing,,,an earth quake will make all of jerusalem, including that mosque into gravel,,,
then what will people fight for, ,,,a tee shirt and falafel stand,,,good fucking luck,,, -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Thu, October 29, 2009 - 5:02 PM<<<does your god know that you are on an infidel site>>>
Hmmmm... I thought you said there was no god? or do you mean there is god for some people but he doesn't exist for you??
WTF are you prattling on about Curly?
How that horse 3-some thing working for ya? -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Thu, October 29, 2009 - 5:28 PM<How that horse 3-some thing working for ya?>
Y'r a class-act, John. -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Thu, October 29, 2009 - 5:34 PMIf Sol is Curly, you must be Larry, as Adam is definitely Moe. -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Thu, October 29, 2009 - 5:38 PM
You thought that this was clever, didn't you...? -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 11:31 AMwhen people run out of ideas they resort to childish put-downs,,,
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 11:35 AMyou mean like calling someone a 'fucking bigot'??
Yes I agree, very childish and you should be ashamed Sol. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 12:33 AM<you mean like calling someone a 'fucking bigot'??>
Calling someone a "fucking bigot" is not a "childish putdown", that's pointing out your reality in an innapropriate manner.
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 11:36 AMSol wrote: "when people run out of ideas they resort to childish put-downs,,, "
Earlier he wrote: "especially with wind bags hiding behind a computor,,,hey for everyone that likes to be bigoted,,,,does your god know that you are on an infidel site,,,,in between jerking off and telling zionists where to go,,,you sure are a brave bunch,,, "
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 3:24 PMI am not ashamed, you igot and a hater,,if not you would actually be a humanitarian and
call to issue every violation of disregard for humanity instead of focusing only
on jews/zionists/,,,
read the paper,,,there's plenty of disregard for others to go around,,,why don't you call suicide bombers to task,
why is it that some people get a pass for far worst things,,such as killing indiscriminately women and children in a marketplace,,,
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 3:39 PM<<<you igot and a hater>>
Manischewitz, it's not just for breakfast anymore.
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 3:49 PM"I am not ashamed, you igot and a hater,,if not you would actually be a humanitarian and
call to issue every violation of disregard for humanity instead of focusing only
on jews/zionists/,,, "
Another fine insult ruined by the crime of illiteracy.
"read the paper,,,there's plenty of disregard for others to go around,,,why don't you call suicide bombers to task,
why is it that some people get a pass for far worst things,,such as killing indiscriminately women and children in a marketplace,,, "
Wrong person, little fella
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 5:34 AMOwh...
"god willing,,,an earth quake will make all of jerusalem, including that mosque into gravel,,,
then what will people fight for, ,,,a tee shirt and falafel stand,,,good fucking luck,,, "
All for your sacred imaginary temple that your TORAH defiled, and the top Israeli Archeologists – Meir Ben Dov) proved to be non-existent “under” Al Haram Al Sharif, you dumb homeless zionazi propagandist?
But, inshallah, this earthquake would flatten all your illegal settlements that are built on stolen Arab Palestinian lands and on top of the heads of your homeless ancestors living in them... God willing this will happen soon. And guess what you homeless zionazi, the "mosque" that you are crying like a whore about will again stand up as it for the last 14 centuries.
And if anything should happen to Muslim Al Haram AL Sharif, we will rebuild it again, rest assured and with your homeless eyes watching.
" falafel stand"
Thank God you and your homeless ancestors came to this land to become educated and to learn about the flafel that you talk about...
Sami;
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 6:16 AMSami I like your avatar, be prepared for Adam to mistake it for Al Aqsa however. LOL -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 1:52 AMThanks, John. I have another pic (although I am the worst photographer in the world) and will post soon. Not too worried about the stupidities about the homeless zionazis here or in Palestine. I know most of them are dumb and ignorant propaganda puppies.
Sami;
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 11:07 AMSami:
Look at the facts.
The Jews have a home now.
It's the Palestinians who are the homeless Nazi whores.
The Palestinians have not only been thrown out of Israel, but also Lebanon, Jordan, etc.
They really should get their act together. Agree to live in peace with their neighbors. And then they too can have a home. -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 3:56 PM
I love how both Sami and John ignore the actual FACTS that I presented. HA!!!
This is why they fail over and over and over again. One cannot build a safe bridge by never building a strong foundation.
You're doing Israel a favor, you know. Thanks. Keep it up.
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 12:12 AMAndy: "I love how both Sami and John ignore the actual FACTS that I presented. HA!!!"
You wouldn't know what a fact was if it your life depended on it. Stop trying to impress yourself.
Andy: "This is why they fail over and over and over again."
Says the stock sociopath.
Andy: "One cannot build a safe bridge by never building a strong foundation."
Is that an original sweetheart? =)
I tried to be patient with Sol but it's clear he's almost as retarded as Andy. And now Sol has decided he's not Jewish (guess his "impartial" Jew opening act didn't quite stick). Perhaps he IS more retarded...? Naaaaaaaaaah.
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 2:03 AMred cow Andy:
I love how you continuously expose your stupid ignorance and lack of brain use, and how you promote your ass doing the reading for you.
You stated this:
<<Here, I'll quote some of it for you. 'On June 17, 2008, after several months of indirect contacts between Israel and Hamas through Egyptian mediators, Hamas agreed to a cease-fire (tahadiya). Almost immediately afterward, terrorists fired rockets into southern Israel. Despite what it called a “gross violation” of the truce, Israel refrained from military action.1 In fact, during the six months the arrangement was supposed to be observed, 329 rockets and mortar shells were fired at Israel.2' >>
from your dumb jewish library. Sure its a fact that was signed on June 17th, 2008. And then "almost immediately - per your reference" the whores of nazizion in Palestine murdered a couple of senior Islamic Jihad resisting members in the West Bank (Nablus). Knowing that the West Bank and Gaza are one by the whores of the nazi-zion in Palestine, surely the Islamic Jehad will retaliate. And so the rockets were fired.
That is, on June 24th, 2008, as per the Haaretz article i posted "Gaza truce shaken as four Qassams slam into west Negev ", which means the truce that was signed on June 17th was shaken as a result of Israel's continued motherfuckery everywhere in Palestine that made the retaliation by the Palestine resistance (June 24th, 2008) happen. Your articles are dated November 2008, which is 5 months after the Hamas Gaza truce signed with Israel.
So please STFU and quite exposing your dumb ignorance and lack of brain use.
Sami; -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 3:14 AM<And then "almost immediately - per your reference" the whores of nazizion in Palestine murdered a couple of senior Islamic Jihad resisting members in the West Bank (Nablus).>
Sami - Is your father also your uncle? I just ask because sometimes that does not work really well after a number of generations doing the same thing.
And, the reason that I am suspicious is that anything that happened in the WEST BANK has NO RELATION to the cease-fire terms in GAZA.
So............if your father is also your uncle, or your sister is also your cousin... This might be why you have issues with understanding even the most simple points.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008...ire_issues
So, there's nothing in the truce about the West Bank. Find for me where the West Bank was relevant. Oh. Wait. It's not. You can't find it because it's not there.
Damn. Schooling you on ANY subject is akin to taking a 4 year old to his first day of pre-school.
I actually feel badly for you. I wonder if you and Harmen are related.
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 5:55 AM<<Sami - Is your father also your uncle? I just ask because sometimes that does not work really well after a number of generations doing the same thing.>>
<<if your father is also your uncle, or your sister is also your cousin...>>
obviously not a racist though. -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 4:04 PM<obviously not a racist though.>
No, that's meeting fire with fire. I'm being a jerk because he's being a jerk.
If we want to have a reasonable conversation, then let's have a reasonable conversation. If we want to be jerks, then I can match it if you like.
And, that's not racism. So, you seem to today have been shown to not know the difference between what is the definition of 'racist' AND 'xenophobia'.
When even the most simple issues like the correct definitions to words elude you, I now understand why the bigger ideas are total mysteries to you.
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 11:46 PMAndrew Melody:
"Sami - Is your father also your uncle? I just ask because sometimes that does not work really well after a number of generations doing the same thing. "
"So............if your father is also your uncle, or your sister is also your cousin... This might be why you have issues with understanding even the most simple points. "
wow... It seems that you think that all mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, uncles are like your own, getting busy over each other and having cheap likes like you as the results?
"Damn. Schooling you on ANY subject is akin to taking a 4 year old to his first day of pre-school."
bwhahahahahaaha .yeah you are full of yourself... I think schooling you never been any easier, since my first days here to date. Again, you are confusing people with your miserable self habibi angrew.. You have been schooled by everyone in this tribe. EVERYONE including Sami Al-Philistini! ;)... want proof?
"anything that happened in the WEST BANK has NO RELATION to the cease-fire terms in GAZA. "
Back to topic. Its your dumb athetic thinking... its funny how you are being a puppy for the whores of nazi-zion and how they are trying to cheaply separate the WB from Gaza. I know its all in your favor to keep them separated, but it will never happen, even with the unfortunate conflict between the resistance in Palestine.
Palestine is one (ALL OF PALESTINE) and there is nothing you or the whores of nazi-zion will do anything about it except for crying like red cow whores about that.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?
Mon, November 9, 2009 - 10:52 AMSami:
> Palestine is one (ALL OF PALESTINE) and there is nothing you or the whores of nazi-zion will do anything about it except for crying like red cow whores about that.
I'm sorry. But it's probably the Arabs who are the whores who sold you out.
As for the Palestinians, they're the homeless trash. I'm sorry, but no one wants you, do they?
The time for your racist intransigence is long past due. Jews have been in the middle east continuously for 3000 years. For 1400 years, they suffered under Islamic discrimination and oppression. Today, they deserve a state of their own and freedom from Islamic discrimination.
For the past 80 years, every time that the Palestinians have attacked Jews, they've simply lost more and more.
You guys really need to try a new approach. Time has come for you to acknowledge 1400 years of oppressing Jews, and 80 years of murdering Jewish civilians and agree to live in peace beside the Jewish state.
Then you can't have everything, but you can at least have a state, freedom, and a bit of dignity. -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 3:14 AMAdam:
You can call names all you want, its makes no difference to me. It actually is not a surprise to see the hatred of the people which you and the homeless whores of the nazizion stole the their lands, murdered/displaced its people. Thats why you are in Palestine, because you are murderous homeless trash executing more motherfuckery and hatred as you are used it for centuries of your disgracing history.
The troubling fact remains that the Palestinians never invaded no one. Never stole lands in order to occupy them. Never murdered/displaced people to steal their land. Its the homeless trash whores that belong to the nazizion who were fucked around the world for centuries as a result of their disgracing acts and history, and they came over to Palestine to continue their motherfuckery.
And these cheap acts (by the homeless trash of the nazizion) had, sadly, made our fellow indigenous Arab Jews suffer as a result of the motherfuckery of the homeless whores of the trash nazizion in Palestine.
Need more information, consult the Holy Torah and shut the fuck up.
"We guys" don't need to do shit, its the lame homeless trash of the nazi zion that needs to get the fuck out of our land and leave us alone. We don't need to apologize for protecting the innocent Jews from being slaughtered/displaced/lived and treated not less than trash for centuries. Keep fantasizing.
And as I told you before, you and 'your likes' will need to live for the next 4000 years to maybe become as good as our shoes! And you will never.
Palestine lives as one (as always) and May you and your likes die in your cheap homeless agony. No one will care.
I am done with this.
Sami Al Philistini; -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 3:21 PM<You can call names all you want, its makes no difference to me. It actually is not a surprise to see the hatred of the people which you and the homeless whores of the nazizion stole the their lands, murdered/displaced its people. Thats why you are in Palestine, because you are murderous homeless trash executing more motherfuckery and hatred as you are used it for centuries of your disgracing history.>
I love how your bigotry is a full-frontal now. All the people that were your 'friends' now see that we were right about you. Very revealing.
<The troubling fact remains that the Palestinians never invaded no one.>
That's because they were always getting invaded, pushed around, beaten up, generally abused and occupied.
<So, John aren't you speaking out against Sami's use of the same terms?>
Because assumingly, he agrees? I speak out against ANY hatespeech every time that I see it, but John has no such morals.
<Time is long past due for Palestinians to drop their racist Jew hating, and agree to live in _peace_ beside the Jewish state.>
With 'moderates' such as Sami? Won't happen. -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 3:38 PM"I love how your bigotry is a full-frontal now. All the people that were your 'friends' now see that we were right about you. Very revealing. "
I doubt if most people even pay attention to him (I know I don't even bother reading most of his posts). After all, this is the same guy who claimed generalized sexual harassment was ok, and that beating your wife was acceptable -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 3:45 PMDustin:
> I doubt if most people even pay attention to him (I know I don't even bother reading most of his posts). After all, this is the same guy who claimed generalized sexual harassment was ok, and that beating your wife was acceptable
Well... that's a reasonable explanation.
Either John was attacking me because of _blatant_ bias.
Or he simply didn't read Sami's post to recognize that the names I was using actually came out of Sami's hate speech. -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 4:07 PM"Or he simply didn't read Sami's post to recognize that the names I was using actually came out of Sami's hate speech. "
I don't think doing something, because Sami did it first, is a valid excuse
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 3:44 AM<<<As for the Palestinians, they're the homeless trash>>>
revealing. -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why?
Tue, November 10, 2009 - 11:35 AMJohn:
> revealing.
That's only for Sami.
If he's going to call Jews every name in the book, he should see how some of those names are actually _much_ more applicable to the Palestinians.
Homeless - That's the Palestinians, unquestionably.
Trash - that's subjective, but it's true that none of the Arab states (other than Jordan) want them.
So, John aren't you speaking out against Sami's use of the same terms?
Sami:
> The troubling fact remains that the Palestinians never invaded no one
The "Palestinians" were never a people until the 1920s.
> Never murdered/displaced people to steal their land.
No, but Palestinians have indeed engaged in horrific crimes.
"The Christian cemetery was destroyed, coffins dug up, the dead robbed, vaults opened, and bodies and skeletons thrown across the graveyard. The church was burnt and an outside wall was covered with a mural of Fatah guerrillas holding AK47 rifles. A portrait of Yasser Arafat was placed at one end ... then civilians were lined up against a wall and sprayed with machine-gun fire. None of the remaining inhabitants survived.[6] Estimates of the civilian dead is 584"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damour_massacre
> It actually is not a surprise to see the hatred of the people
You're the hateful one.
You spew hate in every post.
But the sad fact, is the hateful names you spew are actually more appropriate for you.
"We guys" don't need to do shit, its the lame homeless trash"
"Homeless trash" That's clearly much more appropriate for the Palestinians.
So, time is long past due for Palestinians actually like trash or immature children, and to start taking responsibility for their actions.
For 1400 years Muslims oppressed Jews. Accept that.
For 80 years, Palestinian Muslims have been attacking and murdering Jewish civilians. Accept that.
History hasn't been fair to Jews or Palestinians, but there was a _population transfer_ with 700,000 Palestinians fleeing Israel, and 700,000 Jews fleeing from Arab states. Accept that.
Time is long past due for Palestinians to drop their racist Jew hating, and agree to live in _peace_ beside the Jewish state.
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 3:27 PMSami: "So please STFU and quite exposing your dumb ignorance and lack of brain use."
LOL! Sami, that's the problem. He's too dumb to realise that he's exposing himself. He thinks he's right see. Lives in a bubble, kinda like Salil. These two are a perfect match BTW. Andy apparently has got the hots for Salil (according to Salil). Since Andy and Salil have begun to agree with one another (a first) recently, I must presume that they've been on a date by now and may have worked things out. I wonder which one plays the alpha male in this relationship? My guess is Andy.
Salil will deny it feverishly, but see... he apparently thinks strictly homoerotic stuff at the mere suggestion of something 'warm and soft' resting on his forehead. I know it was a dirty trick, but he had it coming. Hopefully he'll come to terms with himself and him and Andy will start spending more time together. It sure would be nice to have a decent conversation void of pretentious faux-intellectualism and 'homo-erotically tinted' interjections for once. -
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 3:55 PMthink they'll make room for Adam?
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Re: Who decided to go to war in Gaza and why? The answer: zionist slime.
Sun, November 8, 2009 - 11:55 PMDimi:
"he apparently thinks strictly homoerotic stuff at the mere suggestion of something 'warm and soft' resting on his forehead. I know it was a dirty trick, but he had it coming. Hopefully he'll come to terms with himself and him and Andy will start spending more time together. It sure would be nice to have a decent conversation void of pretentious faux-intellectualism and 'homo-erotically tinted' interjections for once. "
bwahahaaha.... oh my god you should check out the thread (named "Sigh") where the clueless melody named Andrew makes real faggot innuendos towards Salil... you will not believe it. In that thread see how Salil enjoys these innuendos ONLY when I came to ruin the mode for them two! ;)....
Sami;
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