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One thing I've always had a bit of confusion dealing with is when a person has the nodes in the opposite houses from the signs. An example to explain:
North Node in Aries, south Node Libra
North Node in the 7th house, South Node in the 1st.
Aries has affinity with the 1st house, Libra with the 7th.....so it is difficult to see how a person can follow their N.Node Aries and still focus on 7th house issues; how they can avoid being trapped in S. Node Libra habits and at the same time avoid getting trapped in 1st house focus.
Any thoughts?
North Node in Aries, south Node Libra
North Node in the 7th house, South Node in the 1st.
Aries has affinity with the 1st house, Libra with the 7th.....so it is difficult to see how a person can follow their N.Node Aries and still focus on 7th house issues; how they can avoid being trapped in S. Node Libra habits and at the same time avoid getting trapped in 1st house focus.
Any thoughts?
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Re: Contradictory nodes
Thu, November 1, 2007 - 6:14 AMIt actually creates a balance. There's no emphasis on one node over the other.
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Re: Contradictory nodes
Thu, November 1, 2007 - 1:55 PMI see the N.node as leading & the S.node as offering things to draw upon
so in your example, I'd say:
there is a push to lead in relationships, drawing on already established skills of harmony & justice that seem obvious
the only 'trap' would be over-emphasizing the personally established skills at the expense of taking charge within relationships
<just do it, rather than point it out>
love all-ways,
mem -
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Re: Contradictory nodes
Thu, November 1, 2007 - 2:29 PMThat's what I have and I've always been a bit confused about it too. -
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Re: Contradictory nodes
Thu, November 1, 2007 - 3:53 PMIt's also been confusing for me because I am one of them as well (Sag in the third house).
I see them as being two sides of the same coin, but they are still different sides. I think of it as a soul that is intending to find balance.
To me, the trick is being very grounded in knowing how to interpret a signature (a point in a sign in a house).
The house is the context, it describes the area of life we are addressing- the sign is what is happening there. So s.node in libra in the first house may describe a person who knows oneself through how well they relate to others- the quality of thier relationships etc. They may feel the need to be free enough to explore a diversity of relationships withmany kinds of people in order to access themselves.
They may be karmically familar with appeasing others and putting too much of thier own energy into forging a sense of balance, when they aren't really taking care of themselves.
The northnode implies a need to readjust thier approach to "self and other". Aries in the 7th house denotes relationships that allow them acess to thier own primal instinctual beingness. This means they may unconsciously attract partners that will challenge them in some way to be more Aries like. They will attract partners that will reflect for them what it is to be self identified.
Aries in the 7th house is more likely to settle for long term relationships than Libra in the first. Even though they have an Aries northnode, thier pull in this lifetime will be torwards finding a partner. In my observation this is not true for those whose northnode are in Libra in the first house. -
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Re: Contradictory nodes
Fri, November 2, 2007 - 7:24 AMYour example is either a Libra or Virgo rising. The Libra Asc, is an odd one having ALL the houses opp their natural sign.The Virgo causes this reverce crux of the houses. This one might find it's self always fixed in their SN energy, fiding it hard to strech out to NN energy. or feeling disconected from the SN energy when experiencing the NN, posibly loosing some continuity w/ it's balence.. -
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Re: Contradictory nodes
Fri, November 2, 2007 - 6:49 PMAries in the 7th house is more likely to settle for long term relationships than Libra in the first. Even though they have an Aries northnode, thier pull in this lifetime will be torwards finding a partner. In my observation this is not true for those whose northnode are in Libra in the first house. "
I'm actually questioning that now. This is my south node in sag in the 3rd house kicking me in the ass. For now I stand by the theory that contradictory nodes implies the need to learn balance, but nothing more than that. Zane, what have you found about contradictory nodes?
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Re: Contradictory nodes
Tue, November 13, 2007 - 1:07 PMHello, everybody!
Yes....my own natal chart is the same....this is what my astrologer (David Pond) said to me about it:
"North Node in Aires, South Node in Libra. Learning how to be independent within cooperative relationships. What a trick THAT is, huh? North Node in Aires, but yet it’s in the Libra house! So it’s both simultaneously. How to trust your own instincts while maintaining cooperation with other people. Well, that’s the razor’s edge path that YOU’RE all about."
When I see a "contradictory" placing (I like your name for it!) in a chart, I feel that these issues have been explored through past lives, but now it's time for some REFINEMENT. With this placing, one goes back and forth SO MUCH that one begins to sense a rhythm and a waxing/waning effect.
That is, one TRANSCENDS the polarity to see things from a higher perspective....a perspective where both Poles are seen as part of an Organic Whole.
Do you read me? Dig it. -
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Re: Contradictory nodes
Wed, November 14, 2007 - 12:24 PMHey David Pond's a friend of mine- we both live in Olympia Washington.
I agree with what you are saying, but I can't help but reocgnize that from a karmic and dharmic perspective there HAS TO be a difference between a person whose south node is in libra in the first versus a person whose south node is in aries in the 7th. -
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Re: Contradictory nodes
Wed, November 14, 2007 - 12:51 PMCool...David is a really great astrologer! And person!
I agree with you....there is a difference, indeed! Did someone say there wasn't a difference? (or did I get mixed up?)
I wish I knew what the difference was, though! LOL Any ideas?
(the difference must have something to do with the difference between "signs" and "houses" and what they signify.) -
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Re: Contradictory nodes
Thu, November 15, 2007 - 11:54 AMtheme (sign) vs. positioning of theme in life (house)
<both of those 'things' can be seen on multiple levels, for variety>
love all-ways,
mem -
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Unsu...
Re: Contradictory nodes
Sun, December 9, 2007 - 1:21 PMSomething to ponder. I do have a question though on Nodes (lost my book...lol) and maybe someone can answer. Is the "True Node" different than what we refer to as North Node/South Node?
Thanks -
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Re: Contradictory nodes
Mon, December 10, 2007 - 11:26 PMTrue Node is NN.. SN is exact opp NN..
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Re: Contradictory nodes
Mon, December 24, 2007 - 12:40 AMNotme,
For centuries, astrologers used the mean, or average daily travel, to chart the North and South Nodes. Older ephemerides only listed the mean North Node, and if you looked at the tables you would notice two things:
1. The nodes were always retrograde
2.. They moved at a steady pace of about 3 minutes per day, every day.
In the Twentieth Century, with the advent of computers, tables of the nodes based on their actual travel were made available. If you looked at these tales you would notice:
1. The nodes were usually retrograde, but sometimes moved direct
2. The motion was not conistently the same every day.
Some astrologers prefer the True Nodes. Others prefer what they had been using since they were first taught, so they stuck with the Mean Nodes.
Some ephemerides were published showing the True Nodes every day just like the planets, plus also showing the Mean Nodes on the first of the month (since it is easy to add motion based on number of days X 3 minutes).
Nowadays, I know more astrologers who use only the True North (and South) Nodes. And there are some who are doing research on the difference between being born with them retrograde (the majority of people) versus those born with them direct (a much smaller number of people.)
Al H Morrison had wrote:
"Those born with the Moon’s node direct are a distinctly different order of humanity. They cannot conform to any generally accepted social norm in the situations specified by the houses in which their lunar nodes find themselves at birth.
Those born with the lunar nodes direct tend to make an uphill life of whatever they choose for a vocation. Often they are prone to act from principle rather that the profit motive. While the nodes are direct in secondary progression, the career of the native is hindered by stress, harsh competition, and often by his own efforts to change conditions. While the nodes are direct in transit, ordinary routines take on a somewhat more brisk pace and variances from the normal are more apt to show up. In Horary, the direct nodes seem to indicate that the native is doing things the hard way, perhaps pursuing some impractical course." -
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Unsu...
Re: Contradictory nodes
Mon, December 24, 2007 - 12:22 PMVedic astrologers just use the mean nodes and not the true nodes. The reasoning is that the Sun & Moon never go retrograde, so the Nodes never go direct. One thing to keep in mind is that the Nodes are not real bodies, they are conceptual points in space, showing a relationship between other bodies. The Nodes are really an intersection axis, like the Ascendant/Descendant line. The Nodes show where the path of the Moon intercepts the ecliptic.
DR
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Re: Contradictory nodes
Wed, December 12, 2007 - 7:58 PMMy personal experience with north node in aries charts is the Aries tendency to Lead is STRONG..
I find Norh node in Characters that set out=Consciously-- to jump start the family 'theme' into another path all together.. In other worlds, they start a whole new pattern, veering away from the uncounscius 'pattern or KARMA
So they are the only ones leaving the 'farm' so to speak.
they travel to Tibet and marry there.
Every one is a professional..or poor.. and they decide to go int business or be an electricion.. or astronaught
THEY WANT TO BE DIFFERENT. or try something new
They inspire others to follow that path just thru their enthisiasm
In their own relationships they do kinda instist on THEIR way.. of doing things..
South node is tamed oout in libra however.. they worked for others benefits , possibly sacrificing for others.. were they appreciated? was all this effovrt for nothing??
Normally, Libra on ascendent is pleasant and social.. at least on the outside..very adept or at least aware of the right thing to do in any social situation..with s. node there they can be quite rigid about FORM.. or PROPER behaviour.. The social arbritrator.. that goes along instead of 'taking charge' . .. s. node in 1st house people arent particualrly appreciated by the public.. mabye they have an 'odd look' or too bland.. somthing about their appearance is marked.. in general
Love and Light, Connie -
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Unsu...
Re: Contradictory nodes
Thu, December 13, 2007 - 12:33 AMConnie, that's an interesting way of putting it. Thanks.
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Re: Contradictory nodes
Thu, December 13, 2007 - 7:01 AMConnie...as someone who has NN in Aries and SN in Libra, all you said is RIGHT ON!
HOWEVER (and this is a big HOWEVER), my NN in Aries is in the 7th House, with the Sun and Mercury. Even though I feel like I SHOULD BE FIRST, I do often sacrifice my ego to my dear Mate. It is LOVE that I do this for....nothing else! Living IN PARTNERSHIP requires a give-and-take balance of energy.....and when it is in balance, it is most beautiful. Also, taking a course or two in Assertiveness really helped me: it taught me how to state my needs simply and not expect other people to change their needs to suit mine. It helped me be less aggressive and more compassionate.
Also, being an Empath helps me understand other people's needs and reactions. I just have to remember to give people room and they will usually figure out things by themselves. I just need to be there for them when they need support. :-)
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Re: Contradictory nodes
Fri, December 14, 2007 - 9:13 PMnorth and south are opposite.
whats confusing?
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Unsu...
Re: Contradictory nodes
Mon, December 24, 2007 - 12:18 PMInteresting thread!
Really what you are talking about is the contradiction inherent in Libra Rising, where the 1st house is the 7th sign and the 7th house is the 1st sign. Having the nodes there on that axis (or any axis for Libra Rising) will emphasize the contradiction inherent in Libra. Libra is a masculine air sign ruled by a feminine planet. It is a sign of finding balance and harmony. It has desire to make stuff happen, but it understands that in order to get anything you have to give, and it is looking for a way for everyone to get their desires fulfilled.
I have a friend with the reverse combination that you described, and I can definitely see the contradiction in him. He is Libra Rising with Rahu the north node in the 1st and Ketu the south node in the 7th. He is in his forties and he has never had a long-term relationship. But people with Rahu in the 1st aren't necessarily meant to be in a relationship in this lifetime. Ketu in the 7th shows that he was more focused on a partner in a recent past life, and Rahu in the 1st shows that in this lifetime he needs to develop self-reliance. Yet Libra is a very relationship focused sign, so this guy really wants to be in a relationship and that's all he thinks about. Ketu in Aries in the 7th can make him very single-minded when it comes to pursuing this goal. Ketu puts blinders on us and makes it hard to see the bigger picture, we get so inwardly focused on what Ketu is doing in the chart. It's hard to see the forest for the trees. But the house where Ketu is shows what we need to sacrifice and let go of, the old karma we need to release.
One interesting point to add is that the 1st house is what we call bhavat bhavam for the 7th house, which means that it is the 7th house from the 7th house, and so it is like a secondary 7th house, with some of the same meaning. This shows that some of our sense of self comes from our relationships. In order to fully develop the self, you have to have relationships. Relationships provide a mirror so that we can see ourselves better. So maybe that is the key to understanding this particular contradiction and the nature of the Libra/Aries axis. Libra is not against Aries just because its the opposite sign. In fact, Libra is trying to help Aries by being its compliment. Any two opposites when taken to extremes are really the same thing.
David
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Re: Contradictory nodes
Sun, December 30, 2007 - 9:45 AMHello, my name is Cassie and I am new to this forum.
I practice karmic astrology and work a great deal with the nodes.
Zane, you are describing something called a reversed nodal placement which is very significant from a karmic or spiritual perspective. This occurs when the sign of the node falls in the opposite house to its natural zodiac placement.
This indicates that the soul has been working on balancing the nodal axis in question for many lifetimes. The purpose of this incarnation is to deepen, integrate and focus the expression of the energies involved.
In your example NN Aries 7h, this soul is going to need to balance self and others in this life. And will need to learn to develop the Self and its own unique individuality, projecting this in the context of personal relationships.
I happen to have a reversed nodal axis in my own natal chart.
6h Pisces NN, 12h Virgo SN.
This means that in this life I am to channel cosmic energy from the collective or Divine, and express it in everyday life and in service to others. In past lives I have had trouble balancing spirituality with everyday life and work, and in this one I must balance the two.
Hope this helps!
Cassie