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I don't take much stock in 2012 end-of-the-predictions, but 2012 still will offer drama. But not as much as 2010, which by the way with orbs factored in already looms upon us. The reason? The Saturn in Libra opposite Uranus both square Pluto in Capricorn. This T-square is very similar to the 1929-1934 T-square in that same three planets appeared in that one. Notice that the news brims with similarities in that the US savings rate and home foreclosures reside at the same dismal levels. Nonetheless, don't expect the same from that T-square as that one.
Here we get a bit more complicated. Saturn square Pluto arrives as part of the Saturn-Pluto wave that spans between 1981 and 2018 with the quadrate alignments (90 degree markers along the 360 degree orbit) appearing at 1981, 1991, 2001, 2010 before ending.beginning again at 2018. The wave for '29-'34 involved the 1915Saturn-Pluto1947 wave.
Moving on with the wave theme we should compare the 1989Saturn-Uranus2032 wave to the 1896Saturn-Uranus1942 wave from then. Then Uranus was upper square (270 degrees) rather than opposite (180 degrees) as it will be in 2010. When was Saturn last opposite Uranus? During the tumultuous mid '60s. Points along the upcoming Saturn-Uranus wave are 1989, 2000, 2010, 2021 before the starting again in 2032.
With 1965Uranus-Pluto2100 we get 1965, 2010, 2050, 2073 and 2100.
OK, I know your head is swimming. So is mine. I will explain how outer planet waves work in another post. With the three waves (Saturn-Pluto, Saturn-Uranus, and Uranus-Pluto) we get three overlapping themes, which we already see being played out. With Saturn-Pluto we naturally follow the path back to Reagan and supply-side economics that live on in GWB's tax-cuts for the rich, and oil crisis and shadowy dealings with Iran and of course 9/11 (Saturn opposed Pluto on the very day- 8.6.2001 that the Bush administration chose to ignore terror warnings). With Saturn-Uranus we can see the rise of the Taliban and bin Laden with the end of the Soviet-Afghan fiasco (as well as the end of the Cold War), the Gulf War in Iraq. the sudden surprise of a stolen election in 2000. With Uranus-Pluto we relive the '60s particularly with the 2008 elections (the civil rights movement resulting in the first presumptive nomination of a black person for president, women's rights through Hillary and Vietnam through McCain).
I'll leave with you pondering the aboveand will post later about outer planet waves. You can read more about the 1929-2010 comparison here: mundaneastrology.net/bitweav...post.php
Here we get a bit more complicated. Saturn square Pluto arrives as part of the Saturn-Pluto wave that spans between 1981 and 2018 with the quadrate alignments (90 degree markers along the 360 degree orbit) appearing at 1981, 1991, 2001, 2010 before ending.beginning again at 2018. The wave for '29-'34 involved the 1915Saturn-Pluto1947 wave.
Moving on with the wave theme we should compare the 1989Saturn-Uranus2032 wave to the 1896Saturn-Uranus1942 wave from then. Then Uranus was upper square (270 degrees) rather than opposite (180 degrees) as it will be in 2010. When was Saturn last opposite Uranus? During the tumultuous mid '60s. Points along the upcoming Saturn-Uranus wave are 1989, 2000, 2010, 2021 before the starting again in 2032.
With 1965Uranus-Pluto2100 we get 1965, 2010, 2050, 2073 and 2100.
OK, I know your head is swimming. So is mine. I will explain how outer planet waves work in another post. With the three waves (Saturn-Pluto, Saturn-Uranus, and Uranus-Pluto) we get three overlapping themes, which we already see being played out. With Saturn-Pluto we naturally follow the path back to Reagan and supply-side economics that live on in GWB's tax-cuts for the rich, and oil crisis and shadowy dealings with Iran and of course 9/11 (Saturn opposed Pluto on the very day- 8.6.2001 that the Bush administration chose to ignore terror warnings). With Saturn-Uranus we can see the rise of the Taliban and bin Laden with the end of the Soviet-Afghan fiasco (as well as the end of the Cold War), the Gulf War in Iraq. the sudden surprise of a stolen election in 2000. With Uranus-Pluto we relive the '60s particularly with the 2008 elections (the civil rights movement resulting in the first presumptive nomination of a black person for president, women's rights through Hillary and Vietnam through McCain).
I'll leave with you pondering the aboveand will post later about outer planet waves. You can read more about the 1929-2010 comparison here: mundaneastrology.net/bitweav...post.php
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Re: 2012? Try 2010.
Tue, July 8, 2008 - 4:50 PMThank you. I chose a bad internet host end of 2007, had to rebuild numerous sites while working full time. Working on a history series at measuringhistory.com/compend...oks.php. Expect to see much more of me!
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Re: 2012? Try 2010.
Tue, July 15, 2008 - 4:22 AMMost interesting, this! The only other person I've heard (read) analyzing these waves was a Dutch guy, Robert Doolaard, who wrote a book called Waves (Golven), investigating them for the time from 600 BC to 2000 CE. Unfortunately, I think this book was only ever published in Dutch.
Anyway, you mention the Saturn/Uranus/Pluto t-square of 2010. What do you think about the Grand Cross at 14*/15* cardinal that hits us in 2014, involving Uranus in Aries, Jupiter in Cancer, Mars in Libra and Pluto in Capricorn? -
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Re: 2012? Try 2010.
Sat, July 19, 2008 - 3:51 AMThere are others. Though he doesn't call them waves, Palden Jenkins does a great job covering the near same period: www.isleofavalon.co.uk/Glasto...x.html. Also look to Cosmos and Psyche, by Richard Tarnas (ypu can buy this book on any of my sites measuringhistory.com or mundaneastrology.net) That book takes a more philosophical view than I do, but he covers so much ground. Not an easy read, but worth the time.
As for the Grand Cross, I see it has part of the larger Uramus-Pluto square. Jupiter waves only last about 15 years, so its transits will point back our time now, 2007-2008. For perspective keep in mind that the Uranus-Pluto square stays active from about now from through 2018. The Grand Cross will represent a chapter in the longer Uranus-Pluto story. Look to sceince and culture affairs for changes related to Jupiter, Uranus and Pluto.
I shoud have something on waves next week. -
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Unsu...
Re: 2012? Try 2010.
Wed, July 30, 2008 - 5:08 PMLeaving Pluto aside, the outer planets plus Earth and Venus return to roughly the same relative positions in 179yrs 1 month. www.fourmilab.ch reset the date, and put the size at 1024. Have a look at the heliocentric configurations of August 13th 2010 and around October 10th 2010. Here we have some very strong storm triggers, solar and terrestrial, and wild swings in temperature. 2012 looks very tame in comparison. -
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Re: 2012? Try 2010.
Mon, August 25, 2008 - 4:47 AMTry 2009 tribes.tribe.net/2009 -
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Re: 2012? Try 2010.
Thu, August 28, 2008 - 3:16 PMin 2012 there is a galactic alignment that only occurs every 26,000 years. Given that the premise of astrology is that cosmic positions affect things here on earth, it seems a bit odd to overlook something as huge as that.
In fact it turns out there is an EXACT Yod - the finger of god - on Dec 12th 2012 between Pluto, Saturn and Jupiter. There are lots of other highly significant transits in the build up to this, not least of witch transits to America and Chinas stelliums around there suns, and the Pluto Uranus square. What’s more these coincide with very real accelerating awareness of huge global issues as i mention in my other thread.
The Mayans in fact seemed to study, observe and have more knowledge of these slower moving cycles than the roots of "western" astrology. It strikes me then that 2012, if it is markered by a galactic alignment as vast as 26,0000 years, could have an "orb" of many years either side, that we have been entering this time now for quite some time, maybe even several decades, that things will intensify in the build up to it, and resolve in the years following that.
Maybe the positions of the solar systems planets, Pluto, Uranus, Jupiter etc, are in fact just painting details in the run up to 2012 on this far bigger canvas that is the development of human consciousness and in fact life on earth, that’s markered by this very big cycle. There is quite a bit known about the Mayans ideas on these cycles and there astrological and astronomical knowledge, which was so sophisticated that they carted some astroids that were only discovered by NASA in the 80’s. Unfortunately I don’t know much about the mayan calendar code myself.
This is an interesting two hour talk on 2012 that puts some of the Mayan 2012 pundits ideas into a western astrological context, and charts the astrological transits that build up from 2006 - 2012 -
www.itsallgoodastrology.com/Astr...n.mp3
The Mayans did not believe the earth was going to end on 2012, infact there is little known about what they did believe would occur on that date, they did however believe consciousness developed in cycles and this was a key ending and beging of a very important cycle, and potentially a big raising of consciousness.
And is it a coincidence that Terrance McKenna hit exactly the same date with his TimeWave Zero model, without knowing anything at the time about the Mayan date ?
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Re: 2012? Try 2010.
Thu, August 28, 2008 - 4:29 PMI have "always" thought that the Mayan date referred to an actual polar/magnetic shift. Does this fit into the astrological context? My guide is my informed intuition, since I lack any actual astrological training. The world won't end, it will simply turn over, perhaps. Any thoughts? -
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Re: 2012? Try 2010.
Thu, August 28, 2008 - 4:44 PMnobody really knows whats going to happen on 2012, dec 12th, some people have said it could be a pole reversal, but this wasnt the ancient Mayans who said this, rather people guessing as to what it could be now.
I dont put much stock in ideas of pole reversals, eartquakes, volcanos erupting etc myself, though of course it is possible, rather i think world events will conspire to change us in ways that its hard to work out exactly just yet.
There are many possibilities, resource shortages are going to be a growing theme, and we have already seen this cause enormous poltical tensions in Iraq, Iran and now Georgia being a pawn between western and russian plays for oil there. Climate change knowledge is becoming more acute, and this is growing rapidly, as knowloedge of things like global dimming - which has been masking much of global warming grows. The breakdown of the American economy which is going to get worse, and the rise of China and India, in fact a transfer of power from east to west.
I dont think its going to happen in one event, but be a tapestry of much change. Exactly like the 60's where we had vietnam going on at the same time as flower power, black rights, sexual liberation and the assination of Kenndy. A mix of volitility and lots of different changes.
Im curious what astrologers with more knowledge than me though make of this Yod, if you check it out it is very exact, pluto and saturn pointing to Jupiter in Gemini.
I also dont think all them Pluto oppostions to the Stellium in both America and Chinas charts, both around 2012, should be overlooked ?
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Re: 2012? Try 2010.
Thu, August 28, 2008 - 4:45 PM<dec 12th,> sorry of course i meant dec 21 st -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: 2012? Try 2010.
Fri, August 29, 2008 - 6:45 AMSure, except from Uranus and a comet 5x the size of Jupiter in Cetus, there is nothing special at all about 2012. -
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Re: 2012? Try 2010.
Fri, August 29, 2008 - 3:59 PM<there is nothing special at all about 2012.>
Pluto and Uranus square nothing special (this lasts 5 years not one year) ? A simultaneous run of Pluto oppositions to the Charts of America and China.
And then a 26,000 year old alignment of the earth and sun with the centre of our galaxy. Maybe if you only look through the eyes of one branch of astrology, there is nothing specia abot that yearl, but when you put the Mayan perspective together with the western perspective, there is something special.
Mayan astrology i believe is far more precise than much traditional western astrology about long term cycles of collective evolution, I am assuming you know Mayan astrology well to say there is nothing in a 6,000 year cycle end that they predicted/observed ?
The focus in western astrology does not appear to be these long term cycles, unlike Mayan stuff. Put the two together and then you probably start to get an accurate picture, providing of course your mind is flexible enough to look at both systems instead of only one exclusively. -
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Re: 2012? Try 2010.
Fri, August 29, 2008 - 4:03 PMalso isnt 2012 the time when the Venus eclipse ends.
here is some stuff about the Yod that apears pretty much exact, winter solstice, Dec 21st, 2012
<<"THERE'S AN ARROW POINTING AT THE ANSWER "
Actually the date of the Yod is Dec. 21 not 12. The Sabian degree for the apex, Jupiter (which rules Sag - the archer) is 9 Gemini - "A quiver filled with arrows". The opposite point which is also important in ascertaining areas the Yod will manifest is 9 Sagitarrius who's Sabian is "A mother with her children on the stairs". Venus is very close at 7 Sag - "Cupid knocking on the door" as is Mercury at 15 Sag - The groundhog looking for its shadow".
Very interesting symbolism connected with arrows - ascendance - love - and integrating the shadow. Since my Saturn is at 8 Sag - "Rocks and things forming therin" - I'll be busy polishing the diamond within.
reply to this post
Steven
44 Re: Finger of God - Convetional Astrology - Yod on 2012Today, 7:00 AM
Also worth noting is that both Saturn and Pluto are also forming individual Septile aspects - Saturn with the Sun (which is conjunct Juno) and Pluto with Neptune.
This is all occurring at 11:11 GMT Dec. 21, 2012 when the Sun is exactly at 0 Capricorn when the Sabian of 30 Sag - "The Pope" gives way to 1 Cap - "An Indian chief demanding recognition."
The Septile aspects are of the 7th Harmonic which is linked to the sacred and holy as in the 7th day. There is a both a fated and irrational quality to this aspect.
Some good info on this subject at this site www.aquariuspapers.com/astrol...e-.html >>
2012.tribe.net/thread/7d1...544df75edf5
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Re: 2012? Try 2010.
Sat, August 30, 2008 - 7:52 AMGood lecture, although a bit non-chalant in places. But a good thing that Benjamin took the trouble to collect various prophecies and views pertaining to the date.
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Unsu...
Re: 2012? Try 2010.
Sun, August 31, 2008 - 1:34 AMinteresting thread :)
This yod is intriguing isnt it! I like this description:
"In general, a Kite is an aspect configuration that starts with a triangular aspect figure (e.g., usually a Grand Trine or Yod). A fourth planet makes an opposition to one of these planets, forming a symmetrical figure. The opposition forms the "spine" of the kite.
The fourth planet can act as a grounding principle, kind of like a lightning rod channels lightning energy into the ground. The opposition aspect often brings conflict, polarization, disagreement and stress, although it is also dynamic and motivating. It is a challenge to be triumphed; a problem to be solved; a disagreement to be negotiated.
The term Kite can also refer to the Yod aspect configuration, when its apex planet is in Opposition to a fourth planet. Also sometimes called a Boomerang or Focused Yod aspect configuration. Similar to the Yod, except the fourth planet has the "last word" in the energy flow and receives an extraordinary amount of stress. In Huber psychological astrology, this is called a Striving Figure."
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I was curious which countries might be getting hit by that "lightning rod"...
so looked through a few of the countries' charts i have from astrologyweekly.com
I basically just looked at conjunctions/opps to that jupiter apex.. (on dec 21, 2012)
8 gemini
-Israel's mercury(10 degrees) & ceres(8 degrees)
-Russia's hades (10 degrees)
-USA's uranus (8 degrees)
-Egypt's jupiter(9 degrees) and pallas (8 degrees)
-Germany's hades (10 degrees) & mars (12 degrees)
8 Sag
-Russia's mercury (11 degrees)
-USA SAG RISING- ASC(7 degrees)
Germany's black moon (7 degrees)
That venus in the dec 21, 2012 chart (opposite the jupiter apex) will be passing over this sabian degree during the time that this configuration is formed "8º Sagittarius (248): DEEP WITHIN THE DEPTHS OF THE EARTH, NEW ELEMENTS ARE BEING FORMED"
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Re: 2012? Try 2010.
Sat, October 18, 2008 - 5:03 AMWhat is so special about the Sun in 2012. It is in the same position as every year, more or less?
