I noticed the update on the tribe’s posting policy. So I thought I’d weigh in with a newbie-oriented post.
A couple years ago, with a long-time interest in bondage, but no actual participation (beyond viewing porn, lol), I chose to introduce myself to kink by visiting Pro Dommes. Overall, I would call it a very positive experience. One unexpected benefit was the education and practice I got in communication and negotiation. Having done that for a while though, I am now interested in incorporating the experience more in my personal life. So I am here dipping my toe in the water.
Who else has experienced both Pro and personal play? Care to comment on the differences, or any issues that came up transitioning from one to the other?
A couple years ago, with a long-time interest in bondage, but no actual participation (beyond viewing porn, lol), I chose to introduce myself to kink by visiting Pro Dommes. Overall, I would call it a very positive experience. One unexpected benefit was the education and practice I got in communication and negotiation. Having done that for a while though, I am now interested in incorporating the experience more in my personal life. So I am here dipping my toe in the water.
Who else has experienced both Pro and personal play? Care to comment on the differences, or any issues that came up transitioning from one to the other?
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Unsu...
Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 10:13 AMI am in the same boat as you...I have been voicing in the community around SF, now on Tribe...and though I have gotten a lot of women (?um, do they not see my profile as gay), I have not had anyone yet wanting to swim with me. I have been dipping toes, splashing in the water, and sitting on the sidelines as you. Check a couple of my clubs like the 15 association or Citadel, some very nice SF people there that are very accepting and nurturing. Though none have actually given me a try, they do have a lot of decent-good advice. -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Wed, May 14, 2008 - 12:27 PMThanks for the comments. I hadn't been actively looking for play partners recently since I was in a relationship with a girl who wanted to get kinky. She actually even encouraged me to keep up my research. But when I did, she tripped out and dumped my ass because she didn't want to be with someone who associated with "those kind of people". LOL
I've been lurking here on and off for a while. It's good to have a place to discuss and hear others' experiences. -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Thu, May 15, 2008 - 9:20 AMPersonally, though I realize they provide a service that has a demand, I would never pay to play with somone. I am blessed with a wealth of great people around me who are skilled and fun. Realizing not everyone is that fortunate, I would recommend going to local munches and taking some time to get to know people who are active in the scene in your area.
You never know who you may meet and I have made some wonderful, lifelong friends that way, who are also kinky play compatible with me. You can google bdsm munch and the name of your particular town and pretty much be guaranteed to find one not too far from you.
Good luck, and keep looking. The right person is out there. -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 6:25 AMThanks for the nice comments. I'm not too worried about the future. I like meeting new people and it's pretty easy for me. I've made some friends in the biz too, which was a nice bonus.
Wasn't too sure if people would be comfortable with this topic though...lol -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 9:10 AMWhy not? Many of us are or have been prodommes.
Domina -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Fri, May 16, 2008 - 9:29 AMLots of negative stereotyping out there in the world. It's common to hear "I would never pay..." But that doesn't match my experiences, which have been very positive.
Btw, I intentionally try to be open about my experiences when I talk to people IRL as well. Just trying to do my own small part to show the good side. In any event, it's nice to have a community such as this where everyone can talk openly.
Leash -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Sun, May 18, 2008 - 8:05 PMGuess I'm spoiled living in the bay area. Many of us who are or have been prodommes are some of the most popular presenters of classes in the community. So many prodommes here are part of the community.
Domina -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Tue, May 20, 2008 - 10:47 AMI think that saying "many" is overstating the case here. A few pro doms in the bay area are popular presenters and some are well known nationally.
However, we probably have thousands of people here who are or have been pro doms so saying "many" to represent a few in thousands seems unreasonable. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Tue, May 20, 2008 - 11:40 AMHundreds maybe, Thousands??? I don't think so.
And there are many women in the scene who have been prodommes, and many of the most popular presenters are or have been prodommes.
Domina -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Wed, May 21, 2008 - 9:44 AMI don't really know all that many people, but I know at least hundreds of women who've done pro dom work. I've participated in training tens of them.
For every woman in the scene who has done pro dom work, there are at least 20 - 30 who are not in the scene who have also done pro dom work. It may have been "stand and model" pro dom work, but it was still pro dom work.
If I, personally know hundreds, then there certainly must be thousands in the bay area. -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 1:54 AMIf you add up all the folks who have done pro domme and pro dom work over the last 10 years in the Bay Area I would bet it easily adds up to thousands. Especially if you include include prostitutes and escorts who do some serious BDSM stuff as a part of what they do.
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 10:52 AMVery few prostitutes and escorts do prodomme work. I'm on a board that is for sex workers and their clients. Most clients lament that they can't get sex and anything but very light domination from escorts and streetwalkers.
Domina -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 11:53 PMWow, cause I know several escorts and prostitutes who do fetish and BDSM stuff. I suppose it depends on the crowd. Mind you, they aren't necessarily finding their clients on sex work boards, they are a bit more high end/high price and probably quite selective about who they do what with. -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 12:39 PMYes, I understand. The ladies who take part on the discussion boards are usually the high end ones. They aren't the ones advertising on Craigslist.
Domina
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 8:23 AMDomina,
I agree with you. It is hard to find a pro session that combines both domination and sex. There is either a lack of interest or willingness, or a lack of experience. -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 12:45 PMExactly. The discussion board I'm talking about laments this to no end. The Prodommes are not likely to have sex with cleints. Most escorts and such are not likely to be skilled at dominance. A friend of mine did a couple of classes for escorts in beginning BDSM that were very well attended. And I had a couple of sessions with an escort who wanted to learn more advanced skills. It's no secret that escorts make significantly more money than prodommes. Usually anywhere from $100 to $150 MORE an hour than a prodomme charges.
There are more people in the business who are willing to have sex with clients, but not that many more. Most prodommes pride themselves on NOT having sex with clients, and since many prodommes network with others in the scene, a prodomme who does provide sex to clients will find herself ostracized.
Domina -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Sun, May 25, 2008 - 2:26 AMI think it is really sad that a pro-domme who has sex with clients would find herself ostracized by other pro-dommes. To each their own choices, after all many of the activities pro-domme do regularly are just as illegal. Maybe that is why the people I know who do both don't share that info very publicly. Why would you if you were going to find yourself vilified. -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Sun, May 25, 2008 - 3:38 PMAnd that IS really very sad in some ways. But in other ways, those who engage in sex with clients can make it a lot more difficult for those of us who don't want to engage in sex with clients. I'm not taking new clients, so of course, the clients I still see are fine with my not wanting to engage in sex, but one of the reasons I retired was that I got really tired of having to repeat ad nauseum that I did not want to have sex and would not have sex with a client.
Sex is an important form of intimacy for me, and I don't want to share that with just anyone. Other people have other ways. I have friends who, by my standards, are promiscuous. And that's okay. Why would I really care about someone else's choices UNLESS they impact mine. And in the United States, prodommes typically don't have sex with clients. In return, we usually charge less than escorts.
Considering that I have a few friends in the escort (and even one in the "streetwalker") business, I think I'm reasonably non-judgemental. Escorts that I know have taken my classes, met me at various venues for some one on one instruction, and whether they have sex with clients or not doesn't bother me: but I'm no longer out there having to deal with a client who feels that because one woman says yes, all of them wiill.
So the attitude may be judgemental and unfair, but it is understandable.
Domina
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Tue, May 20, 2008 - 3:30 AMInteresting subject. I think it depends on how your personal interest in BDSM appears in your life. If there is a special person that brings this interest with Her or Him then ultimately there's no need and no motivation to visit Pro Domme. The other option is whenever this interest grows inside you and there is nobody who could share it with you at the moment. Being alone with all this questions that newbie can have many of us just wonder where interest in BDSM comes from, how can it work in their life and is it real strong need or rather some temporary kink imagination. The simplest test allowing to observe your own emotional reactions in real BDSM situation is visiting Pro Domme. -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Tue, May 20, 2008 - 3:55 AMPro dommes are also really good if you want to try something your partner doesn't or you want someone skilled to show you and your partner how to do something. I know of lots of couples who went to pros to learn hands on, in an intimate session, how to do better rope bondage, for instance. Pros also often have such a great collection of toys and equipment and if you ask you can often find some that have dungeons where you can scream to your heart's content. Also,sometimes you both wanna be the bottom, but you also want to keep the play intimate and private. Then it can be exciting to visit a professional. Many dommes/doms will see couples. -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 8:17 AMThe girl I was with was interested in M/F domination. I am realistic about needing more experience before really having fun or being fun in a dominant role myself. She made it clear that she had absolutely no interest in a Female Domme. The only contacts and experiences I have are with Fem Dommes, so I didn't have much to suggest. I have heard about some bad experiences when women are looking for a Dom.
Any thoughts on Pro Male Doms for women? -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 12:47 PMMost pro male doms can't make a living at it. Many are very bad at what they do. I would suggest having your lady attend munches and classes in order to meet people. Ask for references. Talk to others who have played with the dom you are considering.
Domina
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Mon, May 26, 2008 - 11:37 AM"Any thoughts on Pro Male Doms for women? "
The general word is that there isn't much call for this. There's some. But not much. Men who make a living as a pro dom are generally looking at male clients.
There's also some work for men in things like sexological bodywork and tantric fields, with both men and women as clients. Unfortunately, a lot of what I've seen there looks much more like basic gigilo work or simple prostitution. While it may have a patina of something else, the primary thing being sold seems to be time, (and sex), with a very good looking man. So you pretty much need to be model gorgeous to make this work much at all.
It's not hard to find a little work here and there. But it's difficult to make a living at it.
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Tue, May 20, 2008 - 4:04 AMIn transitioning from one to the other: Keep in mind that a pro is doing what you want, how you want it, often. She/he is trying to help you have the experience you say you want, and less trying to have the experience s/he would personally have in an intimate scene with a lover. A non-pro is going to need more negotiation and compromise as they want what they want and you want what you want and you are likely to find that there more work finding a middle ground. Also, a pro often knows alot of technique around what s/he does, whereas a non-pro may not know as much diversity of technique.
A pro is generally not likely to be extremely emotional. A personal partner often is. It's not likely a pro will ever break down and cry if something goes wrong or freak out and freeze or many of the other reactions someone can have if something goes wrong. A pro will also have lots of experience with pacing, whereas a non-pro may have less, just from having played with less people. A pro is used to there being many first time scenes. A non-pro often has less of these, so is less familiar with reading someone quickly without having to communicate throughout the scene. A pro often has a wider range of toys to use and way more clothes to wear, a non-pro may have less variety (unless you are someone who likes to get clothes for the person you play with).
All of these are generalizations, so please take them as such. -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Tue, May 20, 2008 - 11:42 AMBut you are pretty much spot on, -robin. And most prodommes will see couples and usually charge only what they would charge for a single.
Domina -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 1:59 AMI would hesitate to say *most* pro-dommes charge the same for couples as singles. Some in the Bay Area do, but some don't. And in other areas, especially other states and countries pricing works differently. Many will not charge the full rate of 2 singles, but also not charge the same as a single. -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 10:53 AMAh, okay, -robin. I'll just say that the ones I know on the prodomme message boards I'm on charge the same for het couples as for singles.
Domina -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 12:00 AMIt's cool Domina, sorry to nitpic, I just wanted to make the clarification cause I have had friends in the biz tell me that they hate it when prospective clients come to them saying "I heard on the internet that the price you should be charging is..." Especially when they hear that from someone who is openly a Pro-domme, they feel it gives them more leverage to start demanding a different (often lower) price that a professional is actually charging.
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 12:56 PMNo problem. The message boards I'm on that are for prodommes are the national ones. (Except the board for men who patronize sex workers, and I rarely read anything but the prodomme section on that.) Most of the dommes on the list are independents and many of those are active in their local scenes.
I won't see two single men at a time. That's not a couple in my book (unless I have evidence that they are gay men.) But a het couple, well, they are likely to interact sexually with each other. Almost everyone that I know that sees het couples treats them as one client.
And of course, there are exceptions to every rule.
People charge what they want to charge. It's always been that way.
We have enough problems with idiots who are continually trying to cut the price they should be paying.
"Well, I only want a spanking, so you don't have to use any of your toys. So I should get a break."
"You only charge X for everyone else. I don't think it's fair that you are charging me extra for the sutures, staples, needles, saline, and other medical supplies."
"I don't get why you should charge me extra for sploshing. We do it in the bath room so the clean up can't be THAT bad."
People should charge what they want to charge.
Domina -
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Unsu...
Domina
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 1:31 PMThank you so much for your clear, concise and knowledgeable input on this topic and to this thread. I could not have said it better...no really...I couldn't have!
Inasmuch as I am reasonably knowledgeable about some things - I could work my ass off for the next 20 years and still not be close.
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Sun, May 25, 2008 - 2:31 AM"
"You only charge X for everyone else. I don't think it's fair that you are charging me extra for the sutures, staples, needles, saline, and other medical supplies.""
LOL - I know you didn't mean it to, but I bet this just made a whole host o' folk cross their legs and cringe. :) You do saline infusions with clients? That is intense. I find it neat to watch and could maybe imagine doing it if someone really was interested, but I don't know cause it has definately seemed intense when I've seen it done. Though I have only ever seen it done with women on women. You should post here next time you are giving a class infusing the scrotum, that would be interesting to see... I hear the balls can stretch a whole lot. -
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Sun, May 25, 2008 - 3:48 PMYes, I did blood play with clients. While I think I am okay to do saline infusions, I really think the best instructor would be someone who has a medical background. Same with sutures. There are little tricks that I don't know that can make those things easier. And saline is tricky. I've had it start dribbling out as soon as you remove the needle, and while it usually stops when you put a bandaid on it...sometimes, it continues to dribble for a bit. And while I find that amusing...not everyone does.
I don't teach single tails for the same reason. I get along fine with mine, but I am not skilled enough with that to teach it.
Now needles...I can do in my sleep. Or at least my husband's sleep. A guy in Portland was telling his friends how after a munch, I took him and some other people home, woke up my husband and put him on my medical table, and taught a needle play class right there because they had asked me to.
Domina
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Re: On Being New; Did You Go Pro?
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 1:54 PMOh, and I'm a mostly retired prodomme. I don't see new clients. And I only see a very few of the clients that were my favorites. I stopped advertising about five years ago.
Domina
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