Did Nietzsche hold anti-Jewish views??

topic posted Thu, August 4, 2005 - 10:53 PM by  Unsubscribed
This is a preliminary topic....I will expand on it at a later time. In the meantime, if you have any opinion or documentation relating to the subject, please don't hold out on us. Thanks.
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  • Re: Did Nietzsche hold anti-Jewish views??

    Fri, August 19, 2005 - 1:54 PM
    I haven't read enough of him to have come across many anti-semitic views of his, but I certainly remember many anti-christian remarks he made! I've heard from scholars of Nietzsche that he wasn't nearly as anti-semitic as many have made him out to be. He definitely didn't have anything in mind like the Nazi's views on jews, though the Nazi's used Nietzsche for their own purposes, misrepresenting Nietzsche in the process.
    • Re: Did Nietzsche hold anti-Jewish views??

      Fri, February 24, 2006 - 1:22 PM
      Many times the words of the past philosophers are misread and misinterpreted, this allows for the words to be twisted and used towards ones own goals?

      In all of nietzsche's writings that i've read i haven't come across any uniquely anti sematic views, mainly anti religious... lump sum mob type views eh?
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    Re: Did Nietzsche hold anti-Jewish views??

    Sun, November 20, 2005 - 6:12 AM
    Church of satan is influenced about his philosophy. I mention it to add to this thread.

    As for the nazis, they are the dumb mob, Nietzsche speaks to the thinker not to the angry mob. He was missunderstood and his philosophy was taken out of it,s conception.
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      Re: Did Nietzsche hold anti-Jewish views??

      Wed, December 14, 2005 - 2:09 PM
      By the way, i think he dident see the jews in the anti semetic way. I think he saw the religious aspect out of it and by critisising it..the mob will say.. buuu baaa! he is a anti semetic.. burn him, burn!

      It,s differnt i think. See, the reason for anti semitics had it,s roots in fear and jealousy. Since the jewish community was sucesfull.. and since Nietzsche liked the strong and independent.. it dosent ad up. It must be the religious aspect.
    • Re: Did Nietzsche hold anti-Jewish views??

      Fri, February 24, 2006 - 1:23 PM
      Funny that you mention the COS if it hadn't been for the book Satan Speaks - Anton LaVey, i definately wouldn't have run across Nietzsche until much later.
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        Re: Did Nietzsche hold anti-Jewish views??

        Tue, March 14, 2006 - 3:01 PM
        Church of satan has some rational wievs. A bit stone hearted and to much into the devil stuff thought. I mean, you dont get followers by calling yourself `` church of satan´´ when they in fact has a philosophy more then a religion.

        As for adding more in this subject. I think i know the real answer on anti semitism now.
        When Nietzsche got sick ( mentaly ill) hi,s sister that was a nazi fanatic took his unpublished works, added some of her own bright uber mind in it and printed it as Nietzsches work.
        To add to it, there is a famous picture with hitler looking at Nietzsches bust.

        We have the uber menchen ( over humans ) My interpretation of his thought is that there is lesser and lowers. Not in an aristocratic way, but in an developed mind way.
        A person apriciating art, culture, intellectuals things like that, has a richer life. He has a inner life. Having that makes him superior.
        Compare to somomone thinking that icehockey is sophiticated culture :P
        The over human is a bit clumsy, i think, the struggeler should be a better word. He is also affected by Darwinism, it,s just simple facts but then there is also people who think earthly facts is really nazi or whatever.
        He is just claiming facts. We are responsible for our actions thought, and i dont think he meant man as a savage murderer letting into his ego.




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          Re: Did Nietzsche hold anti-Jewish views??

          Tue, March 14, 2006 - 3:09 PM
          About religion.. his first path in life was to be a priest. He was influenced by people before him but i cant remember their names. It seems to be thier voices echoing alot thought.

          To be against religion is a good thing, actually i really hate religion. As for a philosophy it,s interesting but then comes along everyone taking themselfes far to serious. They are all hypocrates. The sad part is that they cant see that themselfes. Everyone is a wolf, and a lamb, and the attempt to try to be just one of them is doomed to fail, as proven since dawn of man.

          If you guys want to join into some anti religion glutony you can always check out my blog, i have put some punchers there that might be helpfull fighting bloodthirsty sects like the catholic church.
          • Re: Did Nietzsche hold anti-Jewish views??

            Wed, September 27, 2006 - 4:11 PM

            who cares?

            god I'm so F-ING tired of Judaism

            there are less than FIFTEEN MILLION Jews in the WORLD.

            so who gives a shite??

            why, when there are so few jews, is so much time spent talking about them? why is there a Jew in every show? why is there a Jew in every movie? why is Judaism such a hot subject everywhere in America?????

            fifteen fucking million of them WORLDWIDE and yet the subject is everywhere, and everyone seems concerned over it

            it's insanity
            • Re: Did Nietzsche hold anti-Jewish views??

              Wed, September 27, 2006 - 4:13 PM

              and just to be clear, I don't care one way or another. I fucking hate the stupid state of Israel. I hate it's stupid ass existence. but as far as Israelis go I have tons of friends from there (from spending a year in India)

              and as far as religions go I pretty much can't stand any of them.

              I just don't understand how this tiny tiny tiny minority of the world population became such a big deal to everyone.

              yeah, there's something really fucking weird going on there.
  • Re: Did Nietzsche hold anti-Jewish views??

    Sun, May 11, 2008 - 1:14 PM
    THE Anti-Christ - 44:
    "The gospels are invaluable as evidence of the corruption that was already persistent within the primitive community. That which Paul, with the cynical logic of a rabbi, later developed to a conclusion was at bottom merely a process of decay that had begun with the death of the Saviour.—These gospels cannot be read too carefully; difficulties lurk behind every word. I confess—I hope it will not be held against me—that it is precisely for this reason that they offer first-rate joy to a psychologist—as the opposite of all merely naive corruption, as refinement par excellence, as an artistic triumph in psychological corruption. The gospels, in fact, stand alone. The Bible as a whole is not to be compared to them. Here we are among Jews: this is the first thing to be borne in mind if we are not to lose the thread of the matter. This positive genius for conjuring up a delusion of personal “holiness” unmatched anywhere else, either in books or by men; this elevation of fraud in word and attitude to the level of an art — all this is not an accident due to the chance talents of an individual, or to any violation of nature. The thing responsible is race. The whole of Judaism appears in Christianity as the art of concocting holy lies, and there, after many centuries of earnest Jewish training and hard practice of Jewish technique, the business comes to the stage of mastery. The Christian, that ultima ratio of lying, is the Jew all over again—he is threefold the Jew.... The underlying will to make use only of such concepts, symbols and attitudes as fit into priestly practice, the instinctive repudiation of every other mode of thought, and every other method of estimating values and utilities — this is not only tradition, it is inheritance: only as an inheritance is it able to operate with the force of nature. The whole of mankind, even the best minds of the best ages (with one exception, perhaps hardly human—), have permitted themselves to be deceived. The gospels have been read as a book of innocence ... surely no small indication of the high skill with which the trick has been done.—Of course, if we could actually see these astounding bigots and bogus saints, even if only for an instant, the farce would come to an end,—and it is precisely because I cannot read a word of theirs without seeing their attitudinizing that I have made an end of them .... I simply cannot endure the way they have of rolling up their eyes.—For the majority, happily enough, books are mere literature.—Let us not be led astray: they say “judge not,” and yet they condemn to hell whoever stands in their way. In letting God sit in judgment they judge themselves; in glorifying God they glorify themselves; in demanding that every one show the virtues which they themselves happen to be capable of—still more, which they must have in order to remain on top—they assume the grand air of men struggling for virtue, of men engaging in a war that virtue may prevail. “We live, we die, we sacrifice ourselves for the good ” (—“the truth,” “the light,” “the kingdom of God'): in point of fact, they simply do what they cannot help doing. Forced, like hypocrites, to be sneaky, to hide in corners, to slink along in the shadows, they convert their necessity into a duty: it is on grounds of duty that they account for their lives of humility, and that humility becomes merely one more proof of their piety.... Ah, that humble, chaste, charitable brand of fraud! “Virtue itself shall bear witness for us.'... One may read the gospels as books of moral seduction: these petty folks fasten themselves to morality—they know the uses of morality! Morality is the best of all devices for leading mankind by the nose!—The fact is that the conscious conceit of the chosen here disguises itself as modesty: it is in this way that they, the “community,” the “good and just,” range themselves, once and for always, on one side, the side of “the truth”—and the rest of mankind, “the world,” on the other.... In that we observe the most fatal sort of megalomania that the earth has ever seen: little abortions of bigots and liars began to claim exclusive rights in the concepts of “God,” “the truth,” “the light,” “the spirit,” “love,” “wisdom” and “life,” as if these things were synonyms of themselves and thereby they sought to fence themselves off from the “world”; little super-Jews, ripe for some sort of madhouse, turned values upside down in order to meet their notions, just as if the Christian were the meaning, the salt, the standard and even the last judgment of all the rest.... The whole disaster was only made possible by the fact that there already existed in the world a similar megalomania, allied to this one in race, to wit, the Jewish: once a chasm began to yawn between Jews and Judaeo-Christians, the latter had no choice but to employ the self-preservative measures that the Jewish instinct had devised, even against the Jews themselves, whereas the Jews had employed them only against non-Jews.The Christian is simply a Jew of the “reformed” confession."

    (Not as good as R.J. Hollingdale's translation (and sometimes really bad), but I didn’t have the desire to type it out!)

    I remember reading a piece of his about the Jews years ago which was almost Shakespearean in his admiration. He said they were more intelligent than the Europeans, and if they played their cards right they would rule Europe (which he seemed to think was a good thing). I can't remember where it came from though. In Bertrand Russell’s (silly) chapter on Nietzsche in A History of Western Philosophy (published 1922??) he mentions this uncertainty in whether he was an anti-Semite. Maybe that was due to Nietzsche’s sister:

    Wikipedia:

    “The unpublished notebooks
    Main article: The Will to Power
    Nietzsche's Nachlass contains an immense amount of material and discusses at great length the issues around which Nietzsche's philosophy revolves.[37] Nietzsche's sister, Elisabeth Förster-Nietzsche, who acted as executrix of his literary estate, arranged these pieces for publication as The Will to Power.
    Later investigation would reveal that Elisabeth Förster-Nietzsche had included material extremely selectively and that she gave these excerpts an order different to that of the author, leading to the current opinion of her manuscript as a revisionist corruption bringing her brother's text in line with her own beliefs, which he vehemently opposed. On the strength of this manuscript, Elisabeth later fostered sympathy for her brother's works among the Nazis, and her revisionism forms the cornerstone of the defense of Nietzsche against the charges of fascism and anti-Semitism.”

    In the following link the first paragraph is very enjoyable! (and the second and third too.)

    books.google.co.za/books

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