I’m just all over the place emotionally this week. It’s no big secret I still carry a lot of love for Denver, though I’m pretty rational about the futility of that. Still, we have been attempting a friendship. He has let me stay over three times now, which help tremendously because I don’t have to commute the hour home after rehearsal. I get two extra hours sleep by staying with him. It's been soooo strange, though. Denver is sweet now, trying so hard to keep things peaceful and to show me he welcomes my company. When I stayed over last Wednesday he had to work late, and when I got to his apartment he had posted a "Do Not Disturb" sign because he knew I needed sleep, and laid a washcloth and towel on my pillow. When he came in he kissed my cheek and said hello. It was the little things like that that made me fall in love in the first place.
Yet he tells me he is not "in love." I don't understand people who can turn love on and off that way, according to some self-absorbed, psychological glitch. My capacity to forgive is vast (obviously, if I am even TALKING to Denver.) and I just can't regulate my emotions like the Water Authority. He now admits he is still too wrapped up in the ex wife (February will be two years since she left him) and it was unfair to enter into a love relationship with me when he was obviously not ready. He’s been espousing chastity, telling me he has nixed the advances of several young girls because he just cannot conjure up romantic feelings. I believed this because we have lain together thrice and it has been very chaste. Though frustrating to me I appreciated him not taking advantage of my vulnerability, and the fact that I do NOT want a pity fuck.
So today I went on the website where we met. They also have lots of forums and, being bored at work I thought I’d log in. My profile on there specifically states I am not looking todate, mind you. Well imagine my surprise when Denver’s pic showed up in the row of pics in my area. My heart absolutely stopped. So I wrote him:
“Not interested in relationships, huh?
I'm sure you can imagine what it did to me seeing this. I guess that's why you did it.
Melissa”
I then called him, and he swore he thought it was hidden, blah blah. So after we hung up he writes:
“It's down now. I re-wrote this many weeks ago, thinking I needed to get "back out there", whatever the hell that means.
I must have been making sure it was hidden and done just the opposite, duh! Thanks for letting me know it was visible, this is the first I was aware of it.
Denver”
And sure enough, the profile is gone now. I don’t know why he’d bother taking it down. Not for my benefit, certainly, as I am now pretty certain the worth I hold in his heart. As I told him it woulda been fine if he’s just said, “I don’t want to date YOU anymore, Mel.” But he’s had me going on this monk routine. I feel lied to and duped.
I’m sure we’ll talk more tonight. I have to go over there cause all my make-up and stuff is there.
Why do guys have to lie? It’s so hurtful.
Melissa
P.S. And this Ex Wife whose memory he clings to . . . she left him to live with some other guy during their relationship, forced him to go off the wagon, and he said the last picture he found online she was at a music fest, all dishelved, had gained 20 pounds, and was all stoned out holding a joint. I mean, c’mon! Ya’ll have seen my pictures! How could I ever aspire to that (emphasized irony.) I just give up, I really do.
Yet he tells me he is not "in love." I don't understand people who can turn love on and off that way, according to some self-absorbed, psychological glitch. My capacity to forgive is vast (obviously, if I am even TALKING to Denver.) and I just can't regulate my emotions like the Water Authority. He now admits he is still too wrapped up in the ex wife (February will be two years since she left him) and it was unfair to enter into a love relationship with me when he was obviously not ready. He’s been espousing chastity, telling me he has nixed the advances of several young girls because he just cannot conjure up romantic feelings. I believed this because we have lain together thrice and it has been very chaste. Though frustrating to me I appreciated him not taking advantage of my vulnerability, and the fact that I do NOT want a pity fuck.
So today I went on the website where we met. They also have lots of forums and, being bored at work I thought I’d log in. My profile on there specifically states I am not looking todate, mind you. Well imagine my surprise when Denver’s pic showed up in the row of pics in my area. My heart absolutely stopped. So I wrote him:
“Not interested in relationships, huh?
I'm sure you can imagine what it did to me seeing this. I guess that's why you did it.
Melissa”
I then called him, and he swore he thought it was hidden, blah blah. So after we hung up he writes:
“It's down now. I re-wrote this many weeks ago, thinking I needed to get "back out there", whatever the hell that means.
I must have been making sure it was hidden and done just the opposite, duh! Thanks for letting me know it was visible, this is the first I was aware of it.
Denver”
And sure enough, the profile is gone now. I don’t know why he’d bother taking it down. Not for my benefit, certainly, as I am now pretty certain the worth I hold in his heart. As I told him it woulda been fine if he’s just said, “I don’t want to date YOU anymore, Mel.” But he’s had me going on this monk routine. I feel lied to and duped.
I’m sure we’ll talk more tonight. I have to go over there cause all my make-up and stuff is there.
Why do guys have to lie? It’s so hurtful.
Melissa
P.S. And this Ex Wife whose memory he clings to . . . she left him to live with some other guy during their relationship, forced him to go off the wagon, and he said the last picture he found online she was at a music fest, all dishelved, had gained 20 pounds, and was all stoned out holding a joint. I mean, c’mon! Ya’ll have seen my pictures! How could I ever aspire to that (emphasized irony.) I just give up, I really do.
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Re: Go on, LIE to me!
Tue, November 20, 2007 - 7:35 PMWell...I'm sure your instincts are completely trustworthy, but remember that people make mistakes and he may have genuinely meant to hide that profile. Don't take it too personally, hun.
And he's being sweet and gentle because that his nature. It's who he is. I don't want to hurt you in any way, Mel becuase you're my friend, but don't take his sweetness personally either. I'm sure he is being genuine. But just keep in mind that he can't give you what you really want and he's told you that. Not that you have to turn off your feelings for him like the water hose spicket; but you may need to disatnce yourself from him to fully heal.
((((Mel))))
My heart's with you. -
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Re: Go on, LIE to me!
Tue, November 27, 2007 - 9:31 AMWell, things got worse when we tried to talk it out. You have to understand Denver has a history of lying to his exes, and he is not the type to be corrected for anything. Sometimes he just agrees and keeps doing whatever. Other times, like last week he lashes out. The issue was never that he would date again, it was him saying he was not going to because he was so emotionally wounded by his past, and being a part of that past I was trying to be a friend, although it was not always easy to lie beside him and feel those nostalgic pangs. Finding that personal ad was so hurtful to me, because he had lied. I always had weird instincts that he was lying to me before, not cheating, but lying about other things. This just set me off.
So anyway we argued bitterly and he called me terrible things, including “whore,” a word he knows is especially hurtful to me. We agreed no more contact on Wednesday, then this morning I get this email:
******
I don't know why, but I just looked at yours and Chapman's myspace sites. I suppose I was just curious if you two were together/dating, whatever, it's none of my business and I'm not jealous, just curiosity. I looked at your space closely. It makes me so sad Mel. There are so many, many things about you I absolutely adore and the so few, understandable, what should be acceptable flaws that I cannot seem to cope with, that drive me to rage unacceptable to myself.
I am forever ashamed and deeply sorry for calling you those derogatory things. I would rather slit my own throat than to ever dare repeat words such as those to any woman, much less one I love as dearly as you. That ignorant tirade demonstrates how far I have to go. I feel as though I reached the top of the big hill the past couple of years only to see the mountain that remains to be climbed.
You left your coat. I welcome you to come and pick it up any time, you still have a key I believe. I don't want this to end on this note, it's too sad, even for me, the King of Pain.
D
*******
Needless to say I do NOT want to revisit any of this. Sigh. -
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Re: Go on, LIE to me!
Tue, November 27, 2007 - 12:13 PMI should mention this was the second time he lashed out to that extent. The first time I was just as culpable. This time however, I let my therapy do the reacting and I stayed in the doorway of the kitchen the whole time. Oh, I spoke my mind but I never approached him, while he charged at me twice, yelling. I never felt he would hit me though, but his body language was definitely more combative and angry than mine.
About an hour after the fight he apologized and I immediately hugged him. I know where a lot of this comes from, I told him. It’s not me he is screaming at per se, but when I correct him I guess I call up a lot of the helpless emotions he felt with his abusive mother. Still, he is almost 51 and I can’t continue to pay for his raising.
It’s a sad situation, and he certainly doesn’t love me enough to make it better. Nothing left for me to do… -
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Re: Go on, LIE to me!
Wed, November 28, 2007 - 3:28 PM"Nothing left for me to do… " wrong- work on yourself in Therapy & any other tool you can get your hands on
You are so worth it , girl! -
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Re: Go on, LIE to me!
Thu, November 29, 2007 - 7:51 AMNothing left to do for him, though. Actually other aspects of my life are great. I'm doing theatre again, closer to my family and friends than ever. I'm just lonely I guess, and not wanting to accept what Denver really is. I haven't loved to that extent in years, and it has really done a number on my heart. I'm much better than I was, though! Tons better!
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Re: Go on, LIE to me!
Wed, November 28, 2007 - 6:03 PMWhy is his having an ad up a big deal? I've got mine active on several sites, but I'm not actively looking to date anyone either. Sometimes it's just to meet interesting new people.
Other then that, this guy seems to be swimming in emotional inconsistency. It's entirely possible he DOES care about you, just can't deal with that fact. I'd say he should get some counseling if it's been two years and he's still so bitter & afraid of relationships. -
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Re: Go on, LIE to me!
Thu, November 29, 2007 - 7:47 AMWell, this guy has a history of playing this Boo Hoo I'm such a shit and don't deserve relationships, but he can not be without a woman around for a second. He hangs with women all the time, and was back with his Ex Girlfriend (as friends) within weeks of breaking with me. This ad was definitely for dating, and this is ironic but he doesn't have a dime to take anyone out. It's a ruse, and a cruel one. It's the hypocrisy of it, too. I've dated some, too, since we've been apart but I never professed to be anti-relationship. It stings a little too in that if he was so lonely that night, why not call someone he KNOWS loves him dearly? So it was a slap in the face on many levels. Basically I realized that Denver is gonna play whatever game he needs to get what HE wants, and the feelings of others be damned. Oh he writes a pretty letter, and seems so contrite but he repeatedly does the opposite. And it hurts me every time.
He may have feelings for me, but I've come to realize he needs an inferior woman so he can harbor some sense of pride. His issue with me is I call him on his shit. I listen to what he self aggrandizes about and say, "Ok, let's get to work on that." He recoils and smokes weed. It's been an awful realization that my beautiful lover is basically one step above a bum. Sad thing is it did not have to be that way. Both me and the girlfriend before me were professional, loving, generous women that could have made a difference in his life. But he had to work a little, too, and that just don't fit into his toking schedule.
If I sound bitter and frustrated it's because I am. Sigh.
Mel
Denver is really messed up from his childhood, but it's time for him to either get some help or walk the walk and stop emotionally draining good women. -
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Re: Go on, LIE to me!
Thu, November 29, 2007 - 8:15 AM<<<<<He may have feelings for me, but I've come to realize he needs an inferior woman so he can harbor some sense of pride. His issue with me is I call him on his shit.>>>>>
sounds like you hit the nail on that one... and yea it does totally suck when you know how much you have to offer and yet your partner refuses to see what yer worth and how wonderful a realtionship could be the two of you...love takes commitment and work... no ifs, ands or buts about it... don't let someone who can't see reality straight get you down dove... yer worth sooo much more and you know it...!! who wants to waste energy trying to get someone to realize your value? if the other person can get it together and see it themselves that is awesome, but it usually ends up happening when it's too late to go back... it's a painful lesson to be sure, but so valuable for the future of one's happiness...
much love to you!!! i know where you are at!! -
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Re: Go on, LIE to me!
Thu, November 29, 2007 - 11:16 AMThanks Ranjeet!
It is very hard for me to let this go. On many levels this guy was perfect for me. He was from Alabama, so we had the same southern upbringing. He also has a theatre degree from a college I work with a lot, and performed for many years both as an actor and musician. His musical talent is amazing, but he has lost the ability to even promote himself and can’t get past the random open mic night where he hopes to be “discovered.” This was hard for me to deal with because I had connections that could help him. Instead he clings to a circle of alcoholic, drug-addicted deadbeat musicians that can’t do jack, nor have any devotion to him whatsoever. But since they are as lost as he is he feels more in his element.
I was (am) also intensely attracted to him, which has not happened in awhile. I’ve dated a lot since my divorce seven years ago, but there was always some element missing sexually. Any problems Denver and I had in the sack were pot related, and perhaps related to his issues with women in general.
The play I’m in opens tonight. This morning I had a “Break A Leg” message on my MySpace from Denver. I haven’t responded to any of it, because I don’t want to get emotional. I don’t understand his method of “no contact.” Sigh.
Thanks everyone for letting me talk this out. It’s been hard. -
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Re: Go on, LIE to me!
Thu, November 29, 2007 - 12:05 PMis Denver a Saggitarius by any chance... maybe a Venus in Sag? He sounds alot like an old ex of mine... Nick could never seem to go too long without making contact and stirring things up again after we would "break up"... and then a few weeks later freak out saying he couldn't handle the dynamics of a serious relationship... i.e. he wasn't ready for commitment... Sag's are known for not being able to walk away and stay away for long... It was a stinky mix... I ended up having to just cut contact with Nick for a while... it was easier on my heart and head to do so... we talk every now and again but it took a while to build up to that... giving yerself space is so valuable... just like you are soooo valuable too!!!
Hope yer night goes well! -
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Re: Go on, LIE to me!
Thu, November 29, 2007 - 2:36 PMGet this: Denver was born on Feb 14! Eesh.
I'm Scorpio. November 7th. We made a pretty dynamic couple, couldn't get enough of each other the first month, then he started to detach. The more I tried to salvage, the further he move from me emotionally. The more he detached the more we fought. Vicious cycle. Sigh.
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Re: Go on, LIE to me!
Thu, November 29, 2007 - 5:35 PMIt just dawned on me that he must be afraid of success. And I mean, afraid af any sort of success in any part of his life; acting, performing, relationships.....Ya' know how some people never really succeed because on some deeper level they fear it? That's Denver. -
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Re: Go on, LIE to me!
Fri, November 30, 2007 - 9:20 AMI could say the same thing about myself and my writing. I’ve never pursued being published, although some of my short plays have been performed, etc., and I’m told the stories I write are good. I think it’s because writing is the one true love I have, and I love and depend on it so much I’m afraid rejection will crush me. Acting is fun, but I never considered myself Broadway or film quality. I wouldn’t want to direct full time. Writing has always been it for me, my secret love that I keep just secret enough to sabotage.
Denver is an odd one. He spends hours a day on his music. Writing, strumming something new, or perfecting a cover song. But he has messed up his life so much now he doesn’t have a car or license, so if he gets a good gig in, say, Nashville he couldn’t go. So he lugs his guitar to local open mic nights, which around here are really just venues for musicians to artistically masturbate. The audience is all drunks. Unlike me and my writing, Denver pushes his music on anyone who will listen, but at least it is GOOD. He used to pick my brain constantly, asking me to listen to the same mandolin riffs over and over. He was a nervous little boy every time he presented something new he was working on.
I realized something after our relationship ended. Whereas I have my job, students, friends, family, creative writing group, and various theatre endeavors Denver has absolutely nothing but his music and his dog. The dog he was more devoted and attentive to than me, and although this stung I ultimately understood it was because the dog can’t talk back, the dog loves him unconditionally and does not see his flaws. And the music is Denver’s last hope, his only way (he feels) he can distinguish himself. I made decisions to keep art in my life, but I’ve always known that if I based my whole worth on my talent I’d be devastated down the line. Denver has now alienated everyone and everything to the point that music is all he has. If he gives up on that he’ll most likely take his life. He’s been so shattered emotionally that he can’t reach out to people who truly love him. Even the ex wife he still pines for was unappreciated when he had her. She spent her youth on him and at 30 years old said, “Enough of this shit” and left without looking back. So the success he eludes is definitely in relationships. But when you shit on humanity the karmic payback is a bitch. That is why his music is suffering. Even his writing is below par lately, but no matter how angry I was at him last week I couldn’t bring myself to say it.
I don’t know why I felt like psycho-analyzing the dude. Just my way of working things out I guess.
Mel
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