Anyone have any magic suggestions to deal with feed back from an oud with contact surface pickups? The instrument in question has K & K twinspots positioned at either end of the bridge. We run it through a LL Baggs DI. It isn't always a problem, depending on the room, but here is one venue we play regularly where just when you think you've got it dialed in, the next time we play the room the feed back dragon rears its ugly head. I have never had a chance to ring out the room properly so perhaps that might work if I get the chance. Problem is that we are always setting up on one side of the room while another group is playing on the other side.
I know that I should probably go through the past posts to see if this has already been covered but maybe some of you have some suggestions. Thanks in advance for any input!
ma'salaam
I know that I should probably go through the past posts to see if this has already been covered but maybe some of you have some suggestions. Thanks in advance for any input!
ma'salaam
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Portland
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Re: Feed back!
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 9:01 AMOh, I should also add that the owner of the oud is dead set against covering the sound holes (they have nice rosettes). -
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Re: Feed back!
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 12:42 PMTell the oudisr the sound holes get covered or the gain gets turned waaay down and see what (s)he says! -
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Re: Feed back!
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 12:52 PMYeah, but then I either lose my oudist or my clarinetist and violinist can't hear her, and since she's the melody lead for most of the tunes... can you say "train wreck"? Well anyway, thanks for the input, it may come to that.
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Re: Feed back!
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 2:12 PMOn a more helpful note, maybe you could make rosette covers that look like rosettes? Like, painted so that they pass the "five foot rule"?
Or is it more a question of fearing damage to the instrument? -
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Re: Feed back!
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 2:14 PMThat's a good suggestion. They'd have to be easily removable though, because she likes to able to play acoustically, too.
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Re: Feed back!
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 1:11 PMOne option is to get a pedal or rack unit that has one or more notch filters built into it. Since you mention ringing the room out, you already know about cutting "sensitive" frequencies using an EQ - all the notch filters do is to let you pick a really narrow frequency of sound to cut while letting everything else pass unaffected. There are some units out there that are fully automatic and preemptively respond to feedback before you even hear it, but they're more pricy. One example I found is the following on musiciansfriend:
www.musiciansfriend.com/produc...P-1124P
You can also play around with positioning of the pa/monitors and your oudist, but I'm assuming you've already tried that. -
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Re: Feed back!
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 2:12 PMThanks Rune. You know, the LL Baggs Paracoustic Di she uses should have a notch filter on it. I don't know why I haven't messed with that before! When you've less than an hour and up to 8 inputs to get hooked up and mixed some times you miss the obvious stuff!
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Re: Feed back!
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 4:34 PMHey!
I use the LR Baggs Para Acoustic DI. And it has a notch filter.
How to get rid of feedback:
1. You'll notice it goes from A to G... this is which note is feeding back.
Set it to whatever note is feedbacky (this is sometimes G or A for me). And bring that notch WAY DOWN.
2. Bring the Bass down on the LR Baggs (sometimes this needs to be 0).
There are probably plenty of bass frequencies being provided by the percussion. It might sound weird with the oud by itself. But with everyone playing together, you won't miss those frequencies.
3. Sit the drummers NOT next to the oud player. When I'm doing these shows with 15 doumbek players I can FEEL the doumbeks on the face of my oud. Maybe the oud player can sit on the end then your other melody, then drummers.
Ouds are hard to make loud. But try the above (especially the bass trick).
-Carmine -
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Re: Feed back!
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 4:44 PMThanks Carmine. Yeah, I already segregate the drummers away from the oud. I also have her put her oud in the stand face upstage. The only problem with tweaking her too much is that she often plays taqsim and with no drums it would sound funky. -
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Re: Feed back!
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 5:51 PMIt's ok.. LR Baggs is right at her feet :) She can set it up for taksim then set it down when the tune starts... :) I usually "set it and forget it" with mine, but I do make adjustments through the night as people get louder/more excited... -
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Re: Feed back!
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 6:14 PMWell we've got a gig at 9 so I'll let you know how it goes. Of course, this room is nowhere near the nightmare acoustically as It's A Beautiful Pizza. Come to think of it, you played there with me once. But you were just playing darbuka, not oud.
"but I do make adjustments through the night as people get louder/more excited..."
Yeah, don't wish you had a tranquilizer gun sometimes? -
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Re: Feed back!
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 6:33 PMthanks boys for covering all that! one last thing ... you can simply turn down the other lines a bit, no?! ; ) acoustic instruments can sound pretty bad through a loud PA in a smallish room so i always *try* to set volume as soft as i can get away with. this is not always possible of course. the other things keeping the volume down does: draws the audience in a bit by making them focus and not repelling them - which is always a plus! : ) and if you play with a large dynamic range instead of a constant blast it also makes for a more musical show. -
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Re: Feed back!
Thu, June 26, 2008 - 6:42 PMThanks for your 2 liras David. You know I usually keep it down more than some bands we know. But you also know from experience what a horrible room IABP is acoustically. We're playing Mississippi tonight and that's usually not the problem, untangling the board and getting the monitors to work is.
They do have a new board but the cables and power cords and everything are still a rat's nest! -
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Re: Feed back!
Fri, June 27, 2008 - 12:57 AMUpdate on the feed back situation. Just got back from the gig. We had a little little trouble with it at the very beginning so I grabbed the DI, cranked up the notch filter in the range between A & G and rolled off the low end on the EQ. No more problems! No let's see how it works next week in the monster room at IABP.
Oh, and David, I ran my bağlama through an Art MP Tube preamp instead of the Para acoustic. I really liked the warmth that the tube pre gives.
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Re: Feed back!
Sat, June 28, 2008 - 6:07 PMTry the PreSonus Tube Preamp.. it's $99 (for single channel) I use a dual channel for my Cumbus.
It's much much much better sounding the the Art Tube.... (maybe you can try one out in a store first).
-Carmine -
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Re: Feed back!
Sat, June 28, 2008 - 6:54 PMHave you used the Art Tube, which model? Well, if the PreSonus can warm up a cumbus it's gotta be pretty good ; )
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Re: Feed back!
Sun, June 29, 2008 - 3:11 AMi forgot to mention.. i like to set the mains with no monitors on. then for the monitors, 'fill in' what the musicians cannot hear when they are all playing. usually that's the softer instruments of course. that at least starts the levels at a nice place.... : ) -
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Re: Feed back!
Sun, June 29, 2008 - 3:30 PMI do the same thing. I usually don't need too much drums or horns in monitors cause they are loud enough... I'm usually putting Oud, Violin and Vocals in monitors... especially BeatBox :) -
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Re: Feed back!
Sun, June 29, 2008 - 5:11 PMOh definitely, main first and then monitors and its usually light on the horn, no drums and heaviest on the oud. No vocals to worry about here!
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