I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm much more inclined to give my donation at the door or before I get to the party than when I'm already there and enjoying it.

Or perhaps dedicate 15 minutes of each party at some point to going around and passing the donation ball around...or something.

I'm not sure how well it works for OMW, but my experiance is as such...

People that go to parties generally fall under one of three categories:

1) People that have no concept of the cost involved
2) People are more concerned about their personal financial situation than social responsibility.
3) People who appreciate what you're doing and are willing to show it.

Unfortunately, most people fall under the first 2 categories and if they can get in free they will. I wish there was a way to get people to want to donate, but I don't see that happening...

FYI

Overmind Works accepts donations with PayPal.

goa@overmindworks.com

I wonder how much of a response we would get if we threw a paypal button on our website.

Some thoughts from me and Paul to share on this subject..........

Requiring a fee to cover expenses for an event is problematic unless there is clear knowledge of how many are actually going to attend - then the total expenses are divided by the number of attendees and that is what each person is charged for the event. When there is no clear idea of attendance, the only solution appears to be requiring the fee to be paid in advance. Then, if insufficient numbers pay by a certain date, either the fee would be increased so that the total prepaid did cover the necessary costs or the event would be canceled and the paid fees refunded. PayPal makes such payments and refunds very easy, and with no overhead if a personal account is used.

If a person is obtaining value from an event - and that is what "enjoying it" means - then it is only proper that s/he return value to the producers of that value. In fact, the point of enjoyment is the very best time at which to decide just how much it is worth to you. This is actually easy to do - just imagine what you would need to be paid by someone to not be there at that moment. Think about this and how this idea could be spread around, communicated to others....

If someone isn't "enjoying it", then s/he shouldn't and surely wouldn't stay - and that would not likely take more than an hour to determine. Someone who stays longer, demonstrates enjoyment, and still doesn't return value is actually freeloading. If a person has little funds, then s/he can contribute labor for set-up, clean-up, etc. (We helped clean up at the Papago Park event recently and we do this with all outside events as a regular activity - it's a good use for all those extra plastic grocery bags. Also, there's a DJ outside of OMW whose productions we regularly enjoy and to whom I sent email wanting to make a Value return - he replied that just our being there dancing was value enough for him. So, with him we are in an even value exchange :)

Making it public who are both the freeloaders and the Value Returners should be strongly considered and this kind of public "social preferencing" is going to be necessary in the context of the present society in order to make any Value for Value approach work. This way everyone can begin to know who are the contributors to continued and more value and who are out to only take - who are the moochers. (See this sci.life-extension post as an example of how Paul made public individuals who had failed to meet their commitment on a group buy of synthetic resveratrol - tinyurl.com/2vrt4q The ensuing thread is also enlightening.... And then there is the MoreLife.org Supporting page where we have an Honor Role - morelife.org/supporting.html )

For individual performing/contributing entertainers at an event, perhaps a Value Return Container (I don't think the word "tip" is really appropriate in this case) at their location would get $ directed to them specifically by those who were really impressed with what they brought to the event (that is, it added greatly to that person's enjoyment).

Returning value after an event is concluded via a PayPal account is a fine idea. Remind the attendees who praise the event promoters for the great time they had (and didn't contribute their time in making the event happen or cleaning up) that returning value with $ is even more meaningful than simply words. Don't hesitate to call a spade a spade - a freeloader/moocher is a freeloader or moocher - when that is the situation.

Getting people to think differently - to create a change in paradigm - is not easy, or else it would already be taking place to a noticeable degree. But by explaining the concept (including the idea near the beginning here about when to think about the value being received), setting up the mechanisms and carrying through, significant numbers of others can be persuaded that there is a better way to hold events where more people enjoy themselves - attendees and promoters/performers alike.

**Kitty

Speaking from my experience,playing around for more than 8 years with different set up's, I would say that phase "donations are greatly apreciated", always have two ends to it,like everything else :)
I been playing gigs for free at numeriuos party's all around and sometimes to even get there,I was spending $300 on gas only,besides all other expanses,so you do the numbers.
Scene supporters will donate in different ways (helping do set up,after cleaning,do small part to watch entrance or take care of drinks,fruts,chai...) others just coming to stomp and if there names they know,they will def pay an entry fee or "full donation".
Now, there is ppl who just selling "goodies",checking out what tha f..k is it,hanging around,getting hiiii,looking for trouble or for "goodies" who does not really care about scene,will use the chance to get in for free. I'm here,I don't have any money,I'm broke but I'm here..what you gonna do ?
Asking an admission price, is the way to go, at any circumstances, unless,you hosting one local dj,who plays old school rap or Ozzy Osborn,for example....
To set up admission price,you have to based it on couple things.
a) Do you have a headliner?
b) How many Dj's (and how many will agree to play for free " :)) )
c) Venue fee
d) Visuals
e) Material.........list go on and on and on....
There is a lot more to it but I think this is basic understanding of "donation" situation.

FUNDAGE!!! :oP I can relate on wondering if the donations are meeting the costs to make certain events happen. Just yesterday I learned how much (what I consider an awesome DJ) is actually getting paid. I understand there are certain events in which those providing the music are doing it freely (in more than one way). There are definitely the costs for essential equipment/transportation with every event.

From what I am remembering, the event is put into a different category (geesh, there is that word again :)) when a cover/admission is required at the door. When this occurs there is certain permitting needed in order for the event to be considered "legal".

*thumbs up* I do think the idea of a donation button being available on the OMW site is a grand one.

There is now a paypal donation button on the main page of overmindworks.com

Also, I opened a forum listing on IsraTrance. Anyone who uses that board should go on there to comment and add your name to the attendee list. I feel the IsraTrance forum is a tool we can use to up our exposure on the national and international psytrance scene.

Also remember to click the ads on the overmind website ;)