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Ordination site specifically for pagan wiccan

topic posted Sun, July 29, 2007 - 8:05 PM by  SandyFF
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I am going in on this as a way of educating myself and filling in the blanks...
here is an organization that ordains wicca/pagan clergy by testing and registering them. (Not like ULC) this one requires you to work for it a little..
I will give you guys feedback after I do it...has anyone else did it?

www.ordainedwiccanclergy.com/
posted by:
SandyFF
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  • Having gone through the publically available material I would have to say that if you are a die hard Wiccan then this is probably the step for you.

    However if you are more of a general practitioner who is eclectically approaching your spirituality within Paganism as a whole then this is going to be a very large disappointment. They are very clear that they are pushing a generic form of Wicca for ordination and anyone who has a specific tradition or does not follow Wiccan tenets will not be comfortable with their material.

    To be specific the site is designed for Wiccan and does not include general Pagan practitioners as qualified to be ordained:

    "Q: Do you ordain Pagans?

    A: The way the term Pagan is used today, generally meaning any sort of earth-centric non-JudeoChristian religion where the members self-identify as Pagan, then the answer is no. We are solely interested in needs inside the Wiccan community, and generic Pagan ministers do not fit with this mission."

    Honestly sites like this concern me since they really smack of elitism to me. Any site that is willing to take pot shots at any other sect as being either to rigid or not desirable will always make me thing twice (Read the FAQ in regards to New Agers/White Lighters, Gardianarians and Alexandrians)

    The purpose of any clergy, in my humble opinion, is to attempt to minister to anyone and everyone who seeks their help, counsel or comfort. I have been a 3rd degree High Priest since 1997 and have been legally ordained since 2001 (yes, through ULC) and have counseled, assisted, comforted and provided spiritual guidance to Wiccans, Witches, Catholics, Satanists and more. Putting on the mantel of H/P or clergy is a greater responsibility that taking care of just a specific sect.

    Approach the course/organization cautiously and guard your wallet/pocketbook please. Would love to be proven wrong but I did not get a welcome feeling from the site.

    Chas
    • I am not Wiccan, but I think their approach seems okay. I would be wary of any organization that ordains any pagan. After all, what it takes to be an Asatru priest or priestess is not the same as it takes to be a Wiccan priest or priestess. Therefore, I totally understand their wish to ordain only Wiccan clergy.
      • Sorry, but I too have to agree. With so many limited, uneducated or incorrectly educated people out there it's nice to know that anyone that is ordained from this organization would have destinct school of thought and a specific level of knowledge. In this day and age it is comforting and think more organizations should follow this example regardless of which faith they are promoting.
        • Please do not get me wrong, I definately agree that education and experience is needed before anyone steps into the role of High Priest/Priestess or any form of clergy.

          However the original poster labeled the thread as "Ordination site specifically for pagan wiccan" and later wrote "here is an organization that ordains wicca/pagan clergy by testing and registering them." which is a misrepresentation of the site. The site is for that organizations form of Wicca and is not open to anyone who does not prescribe to their tenets and methods of approach. So the correct representation is "Ordination site for Wiccans Only".

          If you wish to be really educated and anal about it Gardner was the creator of the Wiccan belief system and anything created after or based upon it that does not follow the laws originally set by Gardner (approx. 156 of them) is not Wiccan, but eclectic Paganism at it's finest. I have yet to come across any ordination or education site for Wicca that is factual enough to drill into the real and complete history of Wicca and usually see most of the education/ordination sites calling it a "ancient religion".

          These are just my thoughts on this subject so please if you take offense, contact me and I will be happy to attempt to come to a meeting of the minds.

          Chas
          • thanks for the feed back...I got their information packet today and have started reading through it.....I must say it says everything that both sides are saying...(by relating to all of your posts) very interesting, and I do have to wonder, if when you take the test if you actually see your results, or is this one of those,...."no you didnt pass, send us more money"...or..."we made it sound important, and you sent us money, so now you feel important" type of deals. I usually like to look into things before I give feedback..

            One important P.S. that I hope everyone reads........ (I feel like a car salesman disclaimer when saying this) I hope everyone reads this thread from the beginning, so they can understand that I am not promoting the site or have any ties to it, at all, and I am just giving you guys a heads up,as I explore what is on the internet so I can give you guys news and info on what I find. I do not own that site and do not know anyone who owns the site.
            I seem to have found that some people dont read threads from the beginning, (on some other tribes) and will sometimes write things like..."stop promoting your site " etc...when in fact there was no promotion at all., or have not read the post from the beginning.
            I know it sounds weird/ stupid but I am finding there are some people on bulletin board sites that assume...none here of course....


            ...
            • I think the question to be asked is why do you [not you specifically] need it [ordination]??

              I am priest in my own tradition, in my own temple, in my own way. I don't have to prove it or announce it or tell the state. I can perform handfastings if I wish or blessings.

              The motivation I see is ego. To have legitimacy in a tradition that is essentially clandestine. We want our traditions to gain acceptance and that label has been given the price of registering in the mundane world. There's nothing wrong with it. But it's not something I want.

              The Pagan Church of Wicca and it's Pope R:.W:. So-and-So and HIgh Priestess Athena Raven Mooncrusher are not going to excommunicate me ever...Why?? Because I don't want paganism to become an institution. I want it to stay a formless tradition that is granted acceptance through the expression of good works and interfaith dialogue.

              People can have their Hogwart's. I may learn something from them. All I am saying is that it's not for me.
              • Unsu...
                 
                Not to be disrespectful, or to randomly butt in, but I felt the need to respond to this statement in particular:

                "I don't have to prove it or announce it or tell the state. I can perform handfastings if I wish or blessings."

                I'm glad you feel that way, but some of us are glad that our Priests and Priestesses are legally recognized. My husband and I, for one, are very glad that we were able to have a ceremony of our choosing that was also legally binding.
                • Sigil:

                  You look somewhat familiar, have I argued with you before. Kidding. Good to see you again, sir. I can appreciate your position and certainly, IF, I ever marry I would enjoy not having to do it twice.

                  And as I stated, "All I am saying is that it's not for me."

                  Take care.
              • I totally agree actually with you. Definitly not ego (on my part at least) since I dont parade around town telling everyone that I will change their life...but I am looking into what all of this online educational material experience is all about, and want to report back to everyone my experiences...good/bad/indifferent...so they can make up their own minds before parting with precious green from their pockets..

                ...... To be totally honest...after a few beers about 12 years ago, my brother in law and I went on the internet to ULC and got "ordained" and to be funny he bought the "Cardnal" package and I bought the Priest/ess package...and we showed them to our spouses...months later when we were sober...much to their suprise...and rolling eyes and eveything they thought we were totally weird. So it was all in fun...now its our on- going joke. That everyone looks at us from the tops of their glasses when we tell them..and I do appreciate and I know its not a joke to allot of people..

                again to add a disclaimer, or just drop to the last paragraph..

                - I am not making fun of anyone who is ordained by the ULC...(shame I have to add this disclaimer but people automatically assume I am poking fun at the idea I am not..just poking fun at a couple people..me and my brother in law)..
                .I actually think it has its place, since my husband and I were married by a ULC minister in a pagan style ceremony 28 years ago....
                hence..its good, that we have and had that option.. we are still together...even though he thinks Im nuts.
                • Yea, I'm a ULC minister too. That's so funny!! I did it back around 2000 and now I see they have all these updated stuff. I dug out my old paperwork and had myself a chuckle after reading this. Thanks for sharing.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    I actually subscribe to some of their educational material. Its solid good reading. Nothing to poke fun at. I am enjoying the "no test" aspect. And it keeps me out of trouble and from watching reruns on TV or oprah. But my husband and sister in law still look at me and my brother in law funny. Of course it may be because we sit and talk about UFO's too...I dont know...
                    • "Pope R:.W:. HIgh Priestess Athena Raven Mooncrusher": sound allot like the names we gave ourselves on our ULC ordination certifcates..
                      hehehehe..just kidding..no I havnt been drinking honest



                      please please please ULC people on tribe..dont come screaming at me saying Im disrespectfull, please read the whole thread...
                      hate to sound defensive but I have met allot of offensive people lately on other tribes...
              • The issue is not simply about becoming an institution it is about being able to provide a service legally to a community that has a lack of individuals that are willing to put their real name to paper stating they are not part of main stream religious beliefs.

                While it is all and all great you are a priest in your own tradition, in your own temple, in your own way in most states that is not enough to legally oversee any function that calls for a piece of paperwork showing you are legally accountable. While you may perform a spiritual ceremony it is not legally binding in the eyes of society until pen touched paper and it is filed with the courts.

                I have seen the arguments back and forth about Paganism being a free flowing spiritual practice versus institutionalizing it in order to have a better legal standing within society. I personally am for both. Then again after over ten years of working with the community I know that for the current community and near future it is a pipe dream since the community itself is so fractured and there really is no sense of community for the vast majority of practitioners. Everyone is marching to the beat of their own drum and society/community be damned if they are going allow anyone to dictate or define their religious structure to them. Does not matter that there is a different between spirituality and religion they are going to fight tooth and nail against change period.

                The Pagan community at large needs individuals who are willing to set aside personal issues and provide a public service for the entire community regardless of sect or religious beliefs. Whether it is through ULC or another means legally ordained ministers/high priests/priestess are needed. There is a definitive lack of individuals to assist practitioners within our community and I for one am happy to be of service whether you are druid, wiccan, christian or otherwise.

                Chas
                • What follows is strictly my opinion: :)

                  I agree with you Chas and would like to add that when a person provides me with certain types of services, they are crossing a boundary that I don't allow "just anyone" to cross. And they need to be qualified to perform these services.

                  I would prefer to have my hair cut by someone who went to school for it, prefer to have my teeth cleaned by a licensed dental hygienist, surgery performed by a licensed surgeon, and would prefer to receive spiritual support from someone who has earned their credentials.

                  I've said this before: I think we can organize love. I think we can institutionalize peace. We Pagans think of "organization" and "institution" as dirty words.

                  To me, it's like saying "witchcraft" is evil. Witchcraft can be used for good or for bad. Same is true of organization and institution.

                  I think "disorganization" could be harmful to the Pagan religions, in the long run.
  • Hmmm, a very interesting page, they have there.
    I think it is a bit ludicrous to attempt to codify a "religion" that was invented even more recently than mormonism, and didn't even have the benefit of a charismatic Brigham Young-ish figure to solidify a power base.
    But I suppose that the Church of Unity is at least one way to show Mommy and Daddy that you really are right, and they really are wrong (Not you, personally, just the collective "You" that irks us all, from time to time). Of course, if that isn't the real deep down, never-admit-it goal of such a thing, you don't really need this site(as in, if this isn't you, chill out. If it is, well...).
    As an example:
    My group was ordained by ULC, and registered with the state of Oregon. Then we copied the articles of incorporation and bylaws straight from the 1st Baptist website. With a few changes to "Pagan-up"(hehehe, sorry!) the articles and bylaws, we sent it to the Secretary of State, asked if we could waive the 15 dollar fee as we are a non-profit 501c3(they said "No."), and, *POOF!* we have the same legal standing as Catholicism. Not quite the history of it, but hey, what the hell, huh? Any state in the union gets to respect our marriages, or not. Just like any other religion.
    I would say that 2 hours of your time, and 15 dollars out of pocket(or equivalent renumeration) may be worth your religious freedom.
    But that's just an example.
    Now for an opinion of mine, on the "legitimate" sponsoring organization.
    The Church of Unity (which, incedently, saw it's largest ministirial jump during the Vietnam conflict as a way to avoid combat zones), is certainly being business-savvy in it's dealings in this manner, I would say. Even more so now, when their numbers are at an all time low, and they have churches across the country closing their doors faster than the older members can die. But hey, when your facing insolvency, why not love those who were expendable ten years ago. Sounds a bit like a crock in that light, but whatever. I'm not paying for it, and they are not lying about anything that I care about.
    Maybe a little harsh, that last bit, but if it quacks like a duck...
    Ultimately, I think that no damage will be done to anyone by this(Not due to a desire to "not harm." Yeah, right).
    No, there will be nothing coming from this due to the incredible apathy that surrounds our community. It could turn into the kind of fracture you see from many of the Born-Again, and Evangelical factions, but you can't get three of us to agree on the color of the sky on a given day, much less something as utterly unobservable as Theology! So, no big there.
    (Although, if they have been speaking directly to the creator of the universe, I do have some messages to pass on...)
    So, all in all, kinda passivly interesting, but it doesn't seem to be needed. Unless the person is unable to feel spiritual by concenative assemblege, or has some residual teenage angst, I don't see it.
    Then again, I was raised Catholic, and anybody with an "invisible friend" who tells them what to do, and what's right and wrong, may not be the one you want to listen to. Even if that friend is named Jesus. He he.

    Feel free to insert the obligatory "No, I didn't mean it like THAT!" catchall statement here.
    • Church of Unity ? Or are you thinking Unitarian...they are the more political of churches with the all inclusive doctrine and very very anti and pro this and that. Unity was created by a man and his wife in the 30's and is very very small and not political at all.
      UU (Unitarian Universalist...maybe?) and does not get into the showing Mom and Dad much of anything...
      in fact they are more "christ centered" than Unitarian which is inclusive and goes to the political extremes (sometimes) as in protesting wars, gay/lesbian rights etc...
      I can tell you from experience there is quite a difference.