"Pagan" Clergy's topics - tribe.net

Good thing or Bad: Aren't all pagans clergy?

2008-09-02T19:17:17Z

I have seen in recent years both the advantages and disadvantages of all pagans being clergy. On the one hand, everyone is empowered to some degree to perform ritual on their own, thus being their own high priest or priestess, and many lead small groups in ritual. I am glad that we all that available to us. I have seen leaders of very small groups claim to be a high priest or priestess just to get some sort of respect. On the other hand, I have also seen circle leaders that regularly lead groups of 50 or more on the sabbats who do not refer to themselves in this way at all, and I respect that humility. It seems to me that being pagan "clergy" is generally suspect, holds very little weight and lacks the respect given to mainstream clergy that have clearly gone through seminary to earn their title and a chance to earn the respect due them based on their actions. Within druidry, i have a sort of love-hate relationship with the idea of grades. I think that we need to be careful to view all people as equal in the eyes of spirit and that we not see some as more spiritual or more divine than others. What do you think?
Peace
Iannin

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 2 replies

OZ colon cancer surgery scheduled

2008-08-28T04:38:55Z

(From Oberon Zell-Ravenheart, co-founder and First Primate of the Church of All Worlds)

8/27/08 report

To all my dear Friends,

After a bit of concern regarding my surgeon's vacation plans, and the possibility that he wouldn't be able to do this surgery until Sept. 15 when he returns, we got it all worked out today. I've been on a liquid diet all day, and tonight I'll be drinking Citrate of Magnesium. Tomorrow morning (Thurs., 8/28), at 10:00 am, I'll be checking into the Petaluma Valley Hospital in Petaluma, CA, where they'll hook me up to an IV and begin the prep work.

The actual surgery is scheduled for 2:30 pm on Friday, 8/29. My surgeon is Dr. Cesar Veluz, assisted by Dr. Leone. Dr. Niendorf will do the urology stinting (these are stiff rods inserted up the uretors so that the surgeon will be able to find them easily to avoid cutting them during the surgery).
I mention all these names because Eric Silverbear suggested sending energy to my doctors as well as to me. Eric says:

"When the time comes, I think it would be good if we sent energy to the Surgeons. We can ask for them to have clarity, wisdom, skill. We can ask Asclepius for His Divine Guidance. Morning Glory said that we should give the surgeon clarity to visualize, like a map, the anatomy and the cancer, as the procedure with be laproscopic."

Dr. Veluz will be performing a hand-assisted laproscopic resection, taking about a foot out of my lower descending colon to get all of the tumor (which is the size of a ping-pong ball) and surrounding tissue. The laproscope will allow a minimal incision to minimize the possibility of infection.

According to all the pre-op tests, I am incredibly healthy in every way other than this tumor, so we aren't expecting any complications. My heart is in excellent shape, and so are my lungs. My blood pressure and pulse rate are like those of teenager. No other carcinomas appeared in the CAT scan or the ultrasound. And I feel really strong from all the energy I feel being continually poured into me from so very many dear friends all around the world! Thank you all!

If you will, please have a red or green healing candle burning for me starting at 2:30 pm PDT on Friday, and think of me fondly as being robust and healthy. If you'd like a picture of me to visualize, there are several on my website at www.OberonZell.com. The moon will be dark, so you can use that energy to visualize the complete banishment and obliteration of all carcinous cells. Prayers to Aesculapius, Hygeia, Brigit, Isis, and Kwan Yin would be especially appreciated, and add to our own. But I also welcome prayers to any other deities of your own devotions for my healing; I have no quarrel with any pantheons!

Many lovely spells have been written and put forth for my healing; I thank you all, and deeply appreciate all of them! MG and I have printed these out and done them at our own altar. Below is one that my dear Lady Pythia put together, based on an ancient Druidic healing spell that Ellen Evert Hopman provided. I like this a lot, and would like to offer it as a single unified spell that all who wish may do on Friday. But anyone who has written or prefers other spells is certainly welcome to use them!

Bright Blessings,
Oberon

OUT OF THE MARROW, OUT OF THE BLOOD,
OUT OF THE BLOOD AND OUT OF THE FLESH,
OUT OF THE FLESH AND OUT OF THE SKIN,
OUT OF THE SKIN AND OUT OF THE HAIR

OUT OF THE HAIR IT GOES INTO THE EARTH

TURN NOW TO GOOD OH CAULDRON OF BIRTH!

STRENGTH TO OBERON, STRONG BE HIS HEART

BANE CANNOT WITHSTAND OUR SACRED ART

UNTRAMMELED CHANGE, NOW STILL, SOON GONE

AS WE ALL WILL, OUR WORK BE DONE!

BY AIR, FIRE, SEA AND SOIL OF BIRTH

HEAL THIS LOVER OF MOTHER EARTH

GAIA'S CHILD, THIS MAGE OBERON

AS WE WILL OUR WORK BE DONE!

BY THE POWER OF THREE TIMES THREE

BY THE SUN MOON LAND AND SEA

BY THE GODDESS AND HER LOVE

ALL BELOW IS NOW ABOVE

BY THE CHANT OF ONE THIS SPELL'S BEGUN,

BY THE POW'R OF TWO THIS SPELL COMES TRUE

BY THE SPELL OF THREE, SO MOTE IT BE

AN' IT HARM NONE, NOR RETURN UNTO ME

AS WE DO WILL, SO MOTE IT BE!

AS WE DO WILL, SO MOTE IT BE!

AS SHE DOES WILL, SO MOTE IT BE!

And Visualize that tumor going to the place of transformation, into the Cauldron of Cerridwen, the Forge of Bridghe; being pulled deep into the magma center of Gaia where its baneful energy is consumed then used to create more Earth! And it is an easy jumping off point to see that viscous center as a Microcosmic Gate of Galactic Center in a Magickal Macroscope.

This is where I and ours would send a Baneful thing--'An it be turned to Good!

Humbly submitted, in Her Service and sending my Brother a remembered kiss for Healing from his Insides out!! Blessed Be dear one!

Lady Pythia

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 0 replies

Are you Teaching? What are you teaching? How are you teaching?

2008-08-24T03:46:21Z

This is a topic that this group originally started with, but I wanted to reintroduce it. Seeing as this is a group so that leaders in the pagan community could "compare notes," I would love to see more discussion on methods of teaching.

So, here are my questions to you:

Are you currently teaching?

If so, what structure, if any, do you use? (how often do you meet? Ritual teaching vs. class teaching, etc...)

What content do you teach?

Pick one topic and talk about how you would teach it?

Blessings
Christine

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 2 replies

Taking Communion?

2007-09-10T19:09:06Z

This weekend I have been invited to an ordination to a woman I love very much. She and I connect closly on a spiritual level, and she is family in the truest sense of the word. She has been working hard to get to this point, and I am thrilled as can be for her.

She asked my family to carry 'the gifts' as part of the ceremony. Being the clueless one I am, I thought this meant carrying her personal gifts that she may be receiving. Ok, so laugh if you want ;) I was never raised in church, went only a few times, and only have seen a communion once. When I discovered this meant carrying the communion offerings to her, I was touched deeply that she would include my family to take part like this. But then it dawned on me, does this mean I have to take communion?

This woman and I connect deeply on a spiritual level, as I have said before. We are both in service to our faiths, and find more connection between them then differences. We have prayed together, helped each other, carried each other through some terrifying times. She knows I am Wiccan, and I know she is Episcopalian. We both feel it does not matter what name is given to 'God', as long as there is love, trust, faith in action ... If this woman were at a Full Moon ritual, I would not hesitate to hand her the Chalice for communion, and would accept any prayer she offered because I know she is truely in service to faith in the most loving, open sense. And I don't know if she would hesitate to take it , but I think she would gladly take that chalice and offer a prayer to the Goddess... But I feel like I am dragging my feet taking communion at a church.

I suppose it is because of the approach, I don't know. Just because it's in a church?

So tell me, what do you think? I will be standing there, at the altar. I will be handing her these items, if it right for me to bow out after that? Would I be doing her and her faith a disservice? I feel like I ought to take communion, though I don't drink so not too sure what to do with that wine, as I dont drink. (That's a topic for another board though) But thought this could be a great conversation ... what would you do? What have you done? How hard is it, at times in life, to connect with the idea of loving faiths crossing paths from time to time? I have crossed paths with so many faiths ... why should this one set me hesitating?

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 11 replies

Ordination site specifically for pagan wiccan

2007-09-06T01:36:38Z

I am going in on this as a way of educating myself and filling in the blanks...
here is an organization that ordains wicca/pagan clergy by testing and registering them. (Not like ULC) this one requires you to work for it a little..
I will give you guys feedback after I do it...has anyone else did it?

http://www.ordainedwiccanclergy.com/

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 19 replies

Help w/ .BIN Font file!

2007-09-05T19:46:08Z

Hey guys, I'm in search of a computer Geek to help me load a fabulous font that was gifted to me by someone over at The Witches' Voice. It arrived as a .BIN file, but my computer (I have Windows ME) doesn'tseem to be able to open it or read it. So...I was wondering if someone might know how one could unleash a font in such a File in order to make practical use of it. All of my Fonts (even those freely downloaded) seem to be either "True Type Font" files or they may be opened with "Windows Font Viewer". Any Computer Geeks here?

Take Care,
Wade MacMorrighan

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 3 replies

The Morrighan Speaks...!

2007-08-22T15:46:06Z

For a long time I have wanted to make some alternating amber-and-jet jewelry; particularly a choker for myself! Anyway, because the colour red is so sacred to Her, I was recently inspired to search out a supplier of red-- or "cherry"-- amber beads! But, it also came to my attention that the folks who made my gorgious idol of the Goddess--Dryad Design [http://www.dryaddesign.com]-- also have a selection of pendants and jewelry based upon their statuary, including a raven pentagram based upon The Morrighan! Ah...can you imagine it?! A red amber-and-jet choker with a raven pentagram hanging from it!

Then, another inspirational thought came to me... I have occassionally seen a variety of Native American feather smudging fans. Well...would it not be a brilliant idea to craft a feather fan out of crow feathers to honour The Morrighan and use it to waft Her incense when needed? Hmmm...now the only problem is finding a source for large crow feathers, and learning how to make such a "fan" to egin with!

Take Care,
Wade, the Inspired One!

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 3 replies

Carnelian

2007-06-15T22:14:58Z

Carnelian

Carnelian is a form of chalcedony and usually occurs in the uniform color of red, orange, or red-brown.

This mineral stimulates analytical capabilities and precision. It provides for perceptiveness to situations and awakens ones inherent talents and adroitness. It is also used to produce inspiration from, and connected-ness, with the spiritual worlds.

It protects against envy, fear, and rage, and helps to banish sorrow from the emotional structure.

It further assists in providing for awareness of the association between the emotional state and the inner condition of the self.

It provides energy conducive to the stabilization of the energy in the home. It provides, also, a strong, yet tender energy when used in the mode of retreat. The message of carnelian is that since one is love, there is nothing to do but to offer the love-each offering of love bringing an exponential increase in the quantity of love returned. Pink carnelian, especially, can encourage love between parents and children, and between parents and parents.

Carnelian stimulates inquisitiveness and subsequent initiative.

In can be used to dispel apathy, indolence, and passivity.

The energy of carnelian is favorable with respect to cleansing negativity from other stones. When directed, it provides for a clearing action while directing any negative energy, which is within the area, toward the light of transmutation.

Carnelian is said to have been one of the stones used in the breastplate of the high priest.

It can assit one in drama and in pursuits related to theatrical presentations.

It is useful in work on the first, second, third, and fourth chakras and can help to increase physical energy, personal power, creativity, and compassion.

In addition the utilization of Carnelian and Kammererite together, has been used to facilitate connection between the physical self and the higher – self.

The employment of Carnelian with Chlorite and Ruby Crystals has been used to eliminate psychic attak and to assit earth-bound spirits to leave an area. Grinding of these three minerals can protect one and ones environment from the return of negative energies.

It can be used in the treatment of neuralgia, gall stones, kidney stones, pollen allergies and colds. It can also be useful to aid in the amelioration of disorders of the spine, spleen, and pancreas. It has been used as an elixir to help heal cuts and abrasions.
blessed be
Frank

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 0 replies

leaving a positive footstep

2007-06-13T17:06:55Z

Leaving A Positive Footprint
Blessing Space

Physical space acts like a sponge, absorbing the radiant of all who pass through it. And, more likely than not, the spaces we move through each day have seen many people come and go. We have no way of knowing whether the energy footprints left behind by those who preceded us will invigorate us or drain us. Yet we can control the energy footprint we leave behind for others. In blessing each space we enter, we orchestrate a subtle energy shift that affects not only our own experiences in that space but also the experiences of the individuals who will enter the space after us. While we may never see the effects our blessing has had, we can take comfort in the fact that we have provided grace for those that follow after us.

When you bless a room or an entire building, you leave a powerful message of love and light for all those who will come after you. Your blessings thus have myriad effects on the environments through which you pass. Old, stagnant energy is cleared, creating a vacuum into which fresh and invigorating energy can freely flow. The space is thus rendered harmonious and nourishing, and it becomes a hub from which positive feelings are transmitted. Intent is the key component of the blessings you leave in your physical wake. If your intent involves using your own consciousness as a tool for selflessly spreading grace, your blessings will never go awry. Whether you feel more comfortable performing a solo blessing or prefer to call upon your spirit guides for assistance, visualize each space you enter becoming free of toxins, chaos, and negativity as you speak your blessing. Then imagine the resultant emptiness being replaced by pure, healing white light and loving energy. Even a quic! k mindful thought of love can bless a space.

This type of blessing is cumulative and will grow each time you bestow it. Try blessing every home, business, and office you visit for an entire week and observing the effects of your goodwill. Your affirmative energy footprint will help brighten your day as you contemplate your blessing's future impact on your siblings in humanity and your environment.
blessed be
Frank

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 0 replies

taking a trip

2007-06-12T13:56:39Z

Short Getaways
Taking A Day Trip

We tend to think of a vacation as something that requires an enormous amount of preparation, but small daylong excursions can be just as refreshing and fulfilling as their lengthier counterparts. A short drive can be the channel that transports you into a world of novel experiences and blissful relaxation. Solo day trips can be a wonderful way to unwind from the stresses of routine existence while simultaneously feeding the soul. And when you choose to share your day trip with someone you care about, a leisurely drive becomes a chance to talk about childhood, recall favorite songs, or simply spend time enjoying one another's presence.

You may be surprised to see how many day-trip possibilities exist within a mere hour's time from your home. Forests, beaches, lakes, mountains, rivers, and deserts can serve as the perfect spot for a minivacation. The physical and mental rejuvenation you experience in an unfamiliar and engaging setting are enhanced by meditation, journaling, deep breathing, or just being still with nature. Though the cost of gasoline can make taking a day trip seem frivolous, and our commitment to environmental well-being may cause us to hesitate before utilizing our cars in this manner, there are numerous ways we can effectively offset our carbon signature while still seeing to the needs of ourselves on a soul level.

Since day trips tend to require much smaller investments of time and money than traditional outings, you can enjoy a diverse range of experiences day by day. On one weekend, you may be motivated by a need to connect with your natural heritage to explore a vast state park or nature preserve. On another, your curiosity can inspire you to visit a historical site that has long piqued your interest. In the end, where you go will often be less important than your willingness to broaden your horizons by removing yourself from the environment already so familiar to you. Each minigetaway you take will imbue your existence with a sensation of renewal that prepares you for whatever lies ahead.

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 0 replies

fractal scalar holomorphic universe

2007-06-10T23:17:11Z

http://www.crystalinks.com/holographic.html

http://www.earthportals.com/hologram.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle

http://twm.co.nz/hologram.html

http://twm.co.nz/holoUni.html

adam kadmon
http://www.newkabbalah.com/adam.html

http://www.spiritmythos.org/holy/light/kadmon_td.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Kadmon

http://www.kheper.net/topics/Kabbalah/Lurianic-AdamKadmon.htm

http://www.plotinus.com/images/East.jpg
http://www.celtoslavica.de/imago/bilder/Adam_Kadmon.jpg
http://www.ihms.net/kabbalah/images/Adam_Kadmon.jpg
http://www.feelsophie.de/weltundgegenwelt/src/adam_kadmon.jpg
http://www.meru.org/Posters/AdamKadmonComboC8nov01a.gif
http://www.metahistory.org/images/AdamKadmon1.jpg
http://www.biblio-labirint.info/images/adam-kadmon.jpg

fractal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal
http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/fractals.htm
http://www.ultrafractal.com/

scalar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalar_field
http://www.keylonticdictionary.org/Words/S/Scalar%20Waves.htm
http://www.keylonticdictionary.org/Words/M/Morphogenetic%20Field.htm
http://www.prahlad.org/pub/bearden/scalar_wars.htm
http://www.scalar-is.com/

http://www.rbduncan.com/sw.htm
http://moriond.in2p3.fr/J04/trans/winitzki.pdf
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/1999-01/SU-DTUB-260199.php
http://www.lcc.gatech.edu/~xinwei/papers/texts/linde/linde_brief.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 0 replies

Goddess Hecate

2007-06-10T16:07:45Z

Goddess: HECATE

SUGGESTED MANTRA: INTUITION
Hecate is the crone witch goddess that shapes her subjects' lives in ways not obvious from a conscious perspective. Her mysterious magic steers you in the right direction at a time when you may feel you are at a crossroad.

SUGGESTED AFFIRMATIONS:
~ I am right here
~ I trust my instincts
~ I stand in complete satisfaction
~ I am content to be guided safely
~ At this moment, I have all that I need
~ I can see the direction I need to take

Related essences: Goddessence ISIS blend for the third-eye chakra

Related gemstones: Moonstone

Hecate completes the goddess triad of the Maiden (Persephone) , the Mother (Demeter) and the Wise Woman (Hecate). She walks between the seen and unseen world but resides in neither, carrying a flaming torch so she can see where other can't - into the human psyche.

She is accompanied by her dog (or horse), her sacred animals, and offers her magical protection in times of danger.

HER MODERN ENERGY

If you have that sense of foreboding sitting in your solar plexus, it may be that you are standing at a crossroad, and are unsure about where you need to go next. Rest assured that Hecate is walking alongside you, carrying her torch with which to guide you.

DO THIS

To help you tap into your inner intuition (and therefore Hecate's mysterious magic), choose a divination tool you are comfortable with. Whatever you use to channel the divine power, whether it be crystals, cards, runes pendulums, tea leaves, psychometry (to name a few), use Hercate's gentle, protective presence to understand images or impressions presented to you.

Have faith that the answer presenting itself to you is sourced
directly from your intuition - acknowledge and honour the answer to guide you at the crossroads.

One tool is a pendulum - use a moonstone to connect with Hecate, ideally attached to a necklace or bracelet well worn by you. Ask "yes" or "no" questions. Firstly, ask three questions: 1) What is yes? 2) What is no? 3)May I ask some questions at this time?

If you can feel the presence of Hecate, proceed to ask the questions you need to ask, and TRUST in your inner wisdom to interpret the answers

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 0 replies

the Banshee

2007-06-08T16:04:15Z

I am known throughout this land and throughout this world…I am the Banshee…The Lady of Sorrow and the Lady of Death…

My screams are those of a thousand men and my voice pierces like notes of rising and falling waves of the sea and it always announces a mortal's death...

Just before a mortal's death…I appear at night in front of their dwelling, wailing and weeping foretelling them of their fate…

If a mortal sees me, I can not harm them, unless I start to scream and it means their own death.

If a mortal is able to catch me, I am more then obliged to tell them who is going to die this day...For I may tell them it is there own...

I only appear in front of and foretell all those of royalty of their time of death and my cries can be heard throughout Ireland for those of Irish Nobility.

I am a shape shifter who can come in many forms…one of my form is of the raven, as the raven I hover over the mortals screaming of their death or I fly next to them foretelling them of their fate…I can appear as a young beautiful woman dressed in white…or as an old hag dressed in death shrouds…which ever form I choose, just beware it will be me…

Beware of my screams if you hear them, death is here…for mortals fear me...for I am what comes at then end of the cycle of human life...I have knowledge of the fate of humanity…and I am a prophetess for all those who are destined to die…I am the Banshee…and I may come for you!
Frank

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 0 replies

balance and tension

2007-06-08T07:57:33Z

Balance and Tension

We live in a world of opposites that we often experience as conflict. But fortunately everything eventually balances with its opposite - absolutely everything! The nature of duality implies an underlying unity. So whenever one side of duality is isolated, expressed or identified, the opposite is always a potential and immediately sought. One side of any duality cannot exist by itself, except through repression of its opposite. Or said another way, one side does not exist by itself and cannot be isolated except in a hypothetical sense. What holds a duality together to create a unity is tension.

Tension is the bond of opposites. It is because of tension that growth takes place and evolution is possible. There are always forces operating against each other, and it is this which makes life interesting, exciting, challenging, frustrating and fulfilling. All healthy and growing relationships embody this tension. Two people who are very similar might have a pleasant relationship but they are unlikely to be catalysts for each other's growth.

When a person does something contrary to one's nature or inherent goodness, there is an impulse to balance it with something natural and good. This is conscience, we say. But conscience is the voice of balance within the psyche. So, too, when a person does or expresses something in a positive or good way, there is an impulse toward the negative or dark side. Many people, because of their superficiality or ignorance, act on this impulse, manifesting it outwardly through negative behaviour. The result of the negative behaviour, which was considered acceptable because of rationalization when done, often leads to guilt or some self-recrimination, which then might lead to some positive choice or another negative act, depending on the consciousness of the individual. The negative impulse, following positive expressions, has the purpose of making us aware of some inner negative within our subconscious that is wanting to surface in order to be resolved. Through this kind of awareness, there grows the ability to express increasingly the light, love and power that naturally exists within each of us. Through awareness we become empowered and we eventually realize that we have choice in every situation, that we can choose to respond or to react.

It is interesting to observe the principle that all energy follows the path of least resistance. Another principle of life is that tension always seeks resolution. Putting the two principles together we can say that tension always seeks resolution through the path of least resistance. Examples of this might be that ignorance seeks awareness through the experience of not knowing what is needed or desired in any given situation; fear seeks courage through the experience of feeling inadequate; fear seeks love through the experience of being separate or isolated.

Whenever we want to create something, make some changes or expand consciousness in some way, we need to create the appropriate tension that will bring the results (resolution) that we are looking for. The question we ask must be the right question related to our goal or direction. This means we must choose our words carefully.

The greatest tension for expanding consciousness and 'creating soul' is the tension of opposites between personality and soul, such as the simultaneous presence of fear (personality) and courage (soul). The fear prompts one to fight or flight, while the courage prompts one to stand up to what needs to be faced. These opposite urges naturally and strongly seek resolution so action can take place. Tension would cease if either of the opposites was repressed or avoided. Both must remain equally present in order for a transformation to occur.

A similar tension that is experienced quite often is the basic fear-love opposition. The soul's nature is love which constantly seeks union, cooperation, and support with the other. The personality's tendency, rooted in a sense of separateness and fear, seeks security, individuality, control and independence. While the personality dominates there is no tension. When the personality is passive or not active and soul seeks to inspire or express, there is also no tension. There needs to be active participation on both parts, soul and personality, to create tension.

When there is wounding, crisis or even inspiration, the soul often becomes active and creates a tension with the personality. This tension seeks resolution, which is not a suppression of either side of the tension, but a union of the two to create something greater. This results in a deeply authentic expression of one's true nature.

If we want to keep a creative process moving along, we need to ask the questions and be open to the answers that do not stop the process. Every resolution must give rise to a new tension to keep a process moving. If you ask: "How should I do this?" and you answer: "I don't know," you have a resolution that does not create further tension. The process then stops. One answer that would create further tension might be, "I could be more open to ..." You do not have to give a final or definitive answer to questions, but an answer that is honest or plausible, but which can give rise to another question.

This same process must be applied when seeking to become more authentic. Ask questions related to authenticity, and give answers that create new tensions to keep the process going further and further into the centre of one's being - to the transpersonal levels of life.

The most basic question to ask often regarding one's authentic nature is: who am I? Obviously there is no definitive answer. But whenever we ask ourselves this question we must give ourselves an answer which can be questioned further. For every answer ask another question that takes you deeper into understanding and connection with your true self.

..> Exercises:

1. Identify some negative trait or tendency within your personality; then identify the soul quality (a positive opposite) that would create a tension within you. Practice being with both simultaneously.

2. Write a series of questions with responses that keep the tension going.

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 1 reply

New Membership

2007-06-05T02:28:31Z

Hello Folks,
A while back, a long while back, I posted that I was not sure I could keep up with the requests to join and wanted to open up the group. It started out strong! And it was beautiful. I would love to see some of the discussions continue. The purpose of this group is to focus on TEACHING. What are the complications that arise, what are the beautiful moments, what have been the most painful and most joyful (and everything in between) learning moments.

So, to update you: I have received 30 membership requests since the last time I logged in. I approved 13. The other 17 did not provide any reasoning for wanting to join (which it states cleary in the intro that you must do so).

So, welcome to the new 13! We are now 119 strong. I am sure we have something to offer each other to keep our heads from getting too big, but staying just big enough that we know what we have to offer.

So, please share your stories. I look forward to reading them

Blessings
Christine

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 4 replies

Radical Priest - " Too Many Crooks Spoiling the Cloth "

2007-05-15T02:01:50Z

I am delving into the nomenclature which is creating this false division of man under the headings of the various churches.
My articles are also currently running in The Canadian, and will continue I believe until I get my point out there. As an ordained minister of a clairvoyant church and a Theosophist, I am dissecting the various popular religions to help shred the fanatcisms that are driving this illegal and immoral war. The Christians are continuing with their abusive encroachment of man, and the Muslims of course are defending themselves.
My attempt is to assist the reader in seeing that the very nomenclature is the cause of the issues at hand, since without the fancy names, the religions are all one and the same; given that they have sprung from mankind's need to sustain a relationship with God, throughout all means they he has employed, and that any reference to Muslims or Christians, or Pagans, or whathaveyou, is in fact exacerbating the divisivness of this false war of man with himself.
If you find yourself able to encompass a full view such as I'm offering, please see the story in process, under the title in the subject line, Radical Priest:- " Too Many Crooks Spoiling the Cloth " and see the material at;
http://radicalpriest.homestead.com/index.html
Just as the mention of an Arab terrorist is a blood rousing buzz word that is religious bigotry at it's finest, so is Black arsonist, or Chinese sniper, or Christian rapist. Unless we can dispense with these divisive bigoted descriptive buzz word adjectives and see each other as one race on one planet, we will NOT survive. The fruits of ignoring this are falling to the ground rotten as we speak.
If you find yourself able to comment, we greatly appreciate the effort, and you can encourage the editor at The Canadian by posting on their blog, ( the link is at the bottom of the article for the first five that they have currently run)
I've recently added music to all of the pages for poignantcy and impact.
I look forward to heaaring from you.
Peace Out,
Radical Priest,
Reverend Michael Valentine Goldsun
9/11=PNAC Plot
" Remember, NIXON never thought he'd be caught either "
http://erroneousbusczh.homestead.com/9-11Plot.html

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 8 replies

Secrecy

2007-05-10T15:48:16Z

Hello Brothers and Sisters,
When I was teaching a class last week, a student asked me why there is secrecy in some traditions. I could not answer that question. I was asked if it is a way for teachers to get the money students pay to find out the information that is secret. It gave me pause for thought. Any response with an answer to that question is greatly appreciated. I understand compensating for time and effort. I don't understand secrecy when our planet is now in such need for majickal healing and enlightenment. Nobody is killing us here in the U.S.A. for being Pagan ,though many wish our demise. Symbols need understanding and correct intention to be utilized. I need help to become enlightened on this topic. Thanks for your responses.
Blessings of Love and Light, Suzi

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 20 replies

tough love

2007-05-10T02:42:19Z

Id like to give this tribe a little tough love if i may. This isn't pagan politics tribe, or How do i control my minions channel. Spirituality isnt about, what position You are in the secret coven. The goddess doesn't care if your a high priestess or a level one whatever. Spirituality is an all out no holds bared struggle between you and the universe. all of your indulging in personal nonsense is only counterproductive. Now I don't mean to single out any posts. I'm just trying to get everyone riled up so we talk about the real thing.
We are but vessels for a higher power. we can guide each other yes but the real master is the world her self. Please remember that we are all the same rank. Every human being on this planet is a priest or priestess in their own rite. Humility can be the masters worst enemy.
Patience humility honesty sincerity these four virtues are the path to enlightenment. without them one can never hope to learn or teach.
I joined this channel hopping to learn something. Please enlighten me. Challenge me. And well all learn something.
Thank you for listening. Blessed be.

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 14 replies

An Introduction

2007-04-15T06:56:00Z

Hello everyone :) My name is Sage and I am new here. Thought I ought to introduce myself before I just randomly started posting. Don't know what else to say at the moment, but love what I have read so far and look forward to come engaging conversations.

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 2 replies

Holistic Fair at Risk!

2007-04-03T17:59:03Z

A Holistic Fair hosted by Northeast Professional Psychics, Mediums and Healers Guild to be held March 3rd from 10AM -4PM at the Knights of Columbus Hall on 150 East Ave, Lewiston has lost its venue for future fairs. This event next weekend will be the last one to be held at this location because in a closed door meeting on Thursday February 22nd, the local Knights of Columbus chapter decided to withdraw from a verbal agreement to rent the hall to the Healers Guild from February to December. They cited religious differences as their reason for withdrawing from the agreement, though the Guild is not religiously affiliated or oriented, and it's members come from many faiths from Catholic to Buddhist.

The Knights gave the Guild the choice of either receiving their money back for the March 3rd date or continuing as planned and paid for with an understanding that, in all probability, there would be protestors against the fair present. The Guild has responded by choosing to go forward with the event as planned as money had already been spent for advertising the event at that location. The Guild is also exploring an alternative location at the Universalist/Unitarian Church in Auburn for future Holistic Fairs.

Please understand that the Guild itself is not comprised entirely of Pagans. There are a wide variety of religious preferences that take part in and benefit from this community alternative-healing event. We ask that you, pagan and non-pagan alike, come out to the Holistic Fair on Saturday March 3rd, to support the Guild in their decision to continue offering alternative healing methods regardless of venue. The Holistic Fair will have a new home in the Lewiston/Auburn area for the April 21st date, but we do not want to be intimidated by these discriminatory acts.

We are not looking for this to be a "rallying cry to arms" but for this to be a positive act of community healing, bringing together all religious affiliations and spiritualities, as the Guild intended. Please come out and show your community spirit!

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 3 replies

tax questions for other ordained ministers

2007-03-19T17:09:28Z

hi all

i realize that this may be a controversial topic as there are differing schools of thought on accepting payment for teachings and ministerial services. however, i am looking for specific information from others who do charge for their services. i am a legally ordained minister, but my order is a fairly new organization. i am doing research on how to advise myself and others we ordain on how to manage the legal/tax aspects of their ministry. personally, i accept money for some of the services that i offer - such as performing weddings and certain types of teaching and public rituals. i've been doing a lot of research on the IRS website and trying to find resources on the internet on how one properly manages this type of income in regards to tax laws. i've found christian resources, but nothing addressing pagan clergy. i have not had any luck finding an accountant or lawyer who is familiar with this stuff and/or open minded enough to dialogue with a pagan minister. i'm curious if any of you on the west coast, or anywhere else really, make a part or full-time income as clergy and how you deal with the IRS?

blessings
artemisia

blessings
artemisia

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 2 replies

Circle, Spring 2007: "The Sacred West & North"

2007-03-06T15:05:02Z

Hey, guess what? Circle will be publishing an article that I co-authored with a friend, Anna Franklin (a MS. entry, actually) in the latest issue of their magazine: http://www.circlesanctuary.org/circle/ So, when you see a copy of this issue, pick it up, would you! The only change since submission (depending upon how they may have "Edited" it) is the introductory sentence in an effort to read MUCH more professionally and smoothly. I initially submitted it for their "Pantheon" section, but they wonderfully published it under their "Nature Religions Around the World"! I should be recieving my complimentary two copies of this issue within a fortnight-- just in time for my birthday: 14, March. Hmmm...I wonder when our local Borders will carry it? But, if you can't find it there, order it directly from Ciurcle Sanctuary, or search about until you *do* find a copy! *G* Let me know what you think of it when you read it, please! Personally, I'm particularly excited to read Emma Wilby's contribution, "Shamanistic Visionary Traditions In Early Modern British Witchcraft"; in fact, I can't wait to read her academic book on the same topic (along the lines of Profs. Eva Pocs, Carlo Ginzburg, and Claude Lecauteux, etc.). Apparently, European scholars have reached this consensus to the consternation of their British peers that reject it as rubbish, and usually invent vapid "reasons" for doing so, too (for example, by claiming that one cannot use any term with the root-word "shaman" in it, such as "shamanistic" as an "understood", unless they are *specifically* applying it to the tribal peoples of Siberia and the Arctic north). Apparently, Emma Wilby (an Independant Scholar that was published by Sutton, an academic publisher) has been explaining how untennible the British position is. Be hat as it may, some luminaries, such as Ronald Hutton, vehemently rejects it, and to modern Pagans, "if Hutton says it, it's so (end of story)!" So much for free-thinking Pagans, eh? Hell, just to get his scholastic-way, Hutton has actually, and blatantly, mischaractreized the writings of Prof. Carlo Ginzburg, to make them sound as though they really cannot be brought up as evidence for pagan survivalism or shamanic antecedants in witchcraft belief, as though Carlo's books say something contrary to what they actually do! I'd like to know how he can get away with this, and not be pounced on by his academic peers! Poor Carlo was also similarly mischaracterized, as he informs us, by two other British scholars, namely Norman Cohn (who lied about Margaret Murray and got away with it) and JB Russell.

Take Care,
Wade@MacMorrighan.Net
http://MySpace.Com/MacMorrighan

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 0 replies

Some thoughts on force.

2007-02-23T06:09:27Z

Some of my recent revelations have caused me to think about the nature of force, and the relationship between what is considered week force like magnetism, and spiritual force, compared to what is considered strong force like matter, fire, electricity, and kenetic forces.
Have you ever heard stories about a mother lifting an entire car to save her infant from cirtain death? Have you ever felt stronger In youre energy work when you let go and stop desireing power? This seems to be a built in fail safe device for the rules of the universe. the more you want power the less you get, and vise versa. one must atain a balance wherein one commands power, but does not desire it.
If we hold to the premise that the observer defines and shapes reality, that our very perceptions, and emotions define the very rules of the physical that we hold to be so real and "hard". then one must realize that those forces we consider week are actually the dominant forces of the universe. one must also understand that the universe its self is an observer. So what we have is a dichotomy of various wills week and strong that make up the fabric of what we know as the universe. one must submit to the will of the universe while at the same time exerting the full force of there own power.
One word can mean the difference of life or death for millions, one thought can mean the begining of something new or the end or your life. The art of the spiritually inclined is to conect with the universe in such a way as to glean the positioning and timeing of those words and actions so one may better serve their self, the universe, and humanity in general. The begining of this path is to sense ones own energy currents. from there the universe only knows.

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 0 replies

The five year itch - Sr. Coven members

2007-02-21T11:07:45Z

This seems like the best place to post this, I'm hoping for some insight and a bit of "yeah, I've seen that too."

I've got a member of my coven who has been with us for a little over five years. She is a First Degree Priestess (we have 3 degrees). She performs the role that the Farrars defined as the Maiden - she's like a right hand person for me to help me handle logistics and getting things organized for the other 8 people.

Recently (within the past six months) she's started getting confrontational with me, bitchy, and taking even the slightest things I say personally. Now, I've known her for some time, so I continually ask her "Are you allright? ", "Did I do something to upset you?", "Do you want to talk to me about something?" and I continually get "No, I'm fine." Which, based on her behavior, doesn't seem to be true.

I have run the gauntlet on trying different things to work through this confrontational tone she's taken: I've talked to her long term boyfriend to find out if there is anything bothering her -- nothing major. I've talked to other long-term coven members to find out if she's said anything to them -- nothing. I've given her larger roles in rituals thinking she may feel under-appreciated. I've given her a larger vote in some thing that she invests alot of time and energy into. Nothing seems to change her tone.

So now I ask you all: when you were first working in your "teaching coven\circle", and you started to feel the pull to higher degrees, did you get crabby and thin skinned? I ask because I did, but I don't have anyone else in my network of friends and aquaintances who has taken a leadership role in a magickal group. Between 2nd and 3rd degrees I felt like everything that my HPS said to me was a personal attack. Now, looking back through those emails and remembering our conversations, she was trying very hard to connect with me and be loving and the thin-skinned reactions were a result of my being pushed to face some very deep-seated fears and apprehensions that I didn't even know I had.

What are your thoughts?
What are some energetic or magickal exercises that I can try to help work the energies through in this scenario? If any?
I've offered to organize and lead rituals just for senior members to ensure that they are ALL getting the magickal experiences that they want in the coven.. and in those rituals she's happy and friendly with everyone. But days afterwards she's grumpy and biting again.

Thank you for any insight and input!

Blessings,
IxChel

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 9 replies

What do you teach?

2007-02-20T16:52:29Z

Well, I didn't plan on it, but I find myself as _de facto_ leader of a new circle... In the interest of providing the best experience I can, I thought I should chat with other Pagan clergy. :)

The last time I co-led a circle, everyone involved (on a regular basis) was at basically the same level, which I'll characterize as "intermediate" (all had read several books, learned to meditate, practiced magick on their own, and had worked in a circle more than once.) In this new circle, I'm the only one with any substantial experience.

My experience the last several years has been to host open rituals at parks, Pagan shops, etc. This hasn't involved much teaching on my part, so now you see my challenge...

I am designing a educational program for my circle. Beyond the bare-bones basics, what topics/issues did you feel were critical to teach in your circles?

(Not that I think it matters overmuch, but I bet someone would ask: We are eclectic neopagan, not following a specific initiatory tradition. My experiences have been in ADF Druidry, Feri, and eclectic Wicca.)

Thanks, and blessings to you & yours,
Michael Walker
AnRobaGlas (at) gmail (d0t) com

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 26 replies

An Introduction...

2007-02-15T13:30:11Z

I'm a Witch, yes, a Witch-- just don't tell that to my folks that, or they'll accuse you of not being able to spell! LOL... Okay, that's my bad attempt at a joke that I ripped off-- err, ugh...I mean was "inspired by"-- Bell, Book, and Candle. *G*

I have been studying/practicing Witchcraft [not "Wicca," per se] for nearly a decade. However, my journey to this religion was quite an interesting one, to say the least. At first they seemed like random coincidence, however, when you have more than one coincidence right after the other, you have what is known as "synchonicity", which basically means that it was meant to happen. Even Carl Jung, who was a student of Freud, believed in synchonicity! He defines it as, "The coincidence in time of two or more causally unrelated events which have the same meaning."

It began with a life long interest in The Occult; a life-long "calling" if you will. I was never reared into many of the Christian trappings of guilt, even though my parents went to church on the extremely odd occasion (like, once every 10 years, or so)-- and for that I consider myself greatful. And, so, my jorney began... (Yeah, I can be heavy on metaphores!)

While I attended Junior High School I became quite environmentally aware (I was always a hippy at heart); and, also, quite interested in Native American religion, including my own Irish-Celtic heritage; much like many Witches that I know, I also absorbed all of the mythology that I could get my hands ahold of throughout Jr. High, etc. Two of my favourite books-- at that early time-- were the clasics: Bulfinch's Mythology and Brian Froud's Fairies. Though, these were really all I could really find in my very limited school district!

These formative years were quite literally years of progression: Because I was always pretty "psychic", from a very early age, I saught to explain these abilities-- I should also mention that I'm a dyed-in-the-wool skeptic at heart! So, I hit the books, trying to quench my desire for knowledge, which wasn't easy in the small town that I grew-up in, as the libraries were equally as small and sorely under stocked. I wanted to know how to explain them-- their physiological basis.

It seemed shortly after my initiation into the realms of parapsychology that my family & myself began to study the Mormon faith. And, it was also during this treatise, that my whole spiritual perception was forever changed: I, being the cheaky 12 year old I happened to be, took it upon myself to seriously question what I was told and asking some very advanced questions-- for any age, really! One such life-altering example occured one evening when the missionaries stopped by for their weekly "lesson". And, so, because we had been taught from the beginning that we are Jesus's brothers and sisters, and that we are God's children (literally), and having a basic working knowledge of genetics & family structure, I asked, 'Well, if we are God's children, and Jesus is our brother... Does God have a wife?', using the words and knowledge available to me at the time, for I had never really given time to thinking of (nor been exposed to) the feminine pronoun of "God" as "Goddess" per se, as a practical aspect of religion-- this was before my later interest in ancient religions. So, I simply used the word "wife". Their answer? "We believe He does, but...He loves Her so much that He does not reveal Her name to us!" Strange seeing as how they taught us that His actual Name was "Jehova"-- an ancient Pagan Name of the God from the Middle East who probably had a bull-cult! But, they admonished me with the following, "But, we don't pray to Her!" What the...?!?! Why in the world not?!?! "Nuts to that," I thought! And, it was from that moment that I began to pray to the Goddess.

But, my formal introduction into the religion of Witchcraft would wait until my first year of college. It was through a friend, naturally enough. She was performing some research on it, herself, and when I saw the word "Wicca" (having never been exposed to that term before) I simply asked her what it was. And, so began my journey into The Craft. Because, it pulled together everything I had experienced & believed & researched so much earlier in my life... It was truly a Home Coming!

I do consider myself lucky, however, because I knew that Witchcraft was nothing "evil" or in any way associated with any "devil" or other such nonsense. (It is interesting to note that the word demon was origionally Greek and, rather than referring to something "evil" originally denoted a genus, or spirit, with implications of "divine wisdom"; while in Latin, when rendered as daemon, it means "divinity" or "spirit"; and the word devil, actually means "little god".) Thanks, in no small part, to Leonard Nimoy's old 70s series 'In Search Of...' (I love that show; I still gladly make time to watch it whenever I catch it airing on Sci Fi). On one episode it did, in fact, detail a coven of American Witches and interviewed them so that we may walk away with a wonderful understanding of another religion, quite different from those that most knew. Incidentally, [perhaps this is synchronicity at work, again, as we will see?] the Coven of Witches was those presided over by Laurie Cabot!

But, I digress... My friend had only a passing interest in it, and soon dropped it altogether, which leads me to believe that I may have, perhaps, been lead down this Path from the very beginning-- because I firmly believe that many things happen for a reason-- call it "synchronicity"! Even physicists believe in synchronicity!-- Dr. F. David Peat defines it as: "coincidences that are so unusual and so psychologically meaningful they don't seem to be the result of chance alone." Thus, it is through synchronicity that we may be able to glimpse a deeper order to reality!

I found it utterly fascinating, and felt the calling of the Goddess, and that of my ancient Celtic heritage, once again, since all those long years ago. So, I began to further research it (as best I could, anyway). And, eventually found it frustrating, because I wasn't finding the answers to many of the questions I was asking-- questions which many books, at the time, seemed to avoid, with such dodgy answers as "You have to believe in spells for them to work!" without giving any rational, logical, or left-brained reason "to believe".

And so, in the time that I began to doubt my "faith" (relatively-speaking), I raised my voice in a silent petition to the Gods asking for Their guidance in answering the questions that I saught! (You have to realize that I come from a world in which "spells" are given over to the world of dreams and "fairy tales", with no factual basis in reality.) And, They did! A book found its way to me, as an answer to that humble prayer. It described, using Quantum Mechanics, a world and Universe that makes sense to the Witch! Having, since then, read a number of books on physics, I came up with the following analogy: The more I read about it, the more the Universe seems like the film The Matrix, if you've seen it (I happened to be reading a book on physics [The Holographic Universe], one evening, while The Matrix was airing on HBO, I believe, when this conclusion occured). But, I digress... The book-- which still holds a highly place on my book shelf and those that I can in good consciousness recommend-- was Laurie Cabot's The Power of the Witch: A Witch's Guide to Her Craft. (The two chapters, "Alpha" and "The Science of Witchcraft" are worth the cost of the book alone!)

Soon after, however, my Matron-Goddess, The Morrighan ["Great Queen"] came to me upon one Lughnasadh Eve. It's quite a lovely story, and I hope you enjoy it [it's actually one of my favorite stories to tell!]:

"Generally-speaking, if you ask most ol'-time Witches, they'll tell you that the Gods choose us, rather than the other way around. I live in a small town (a farming community) surrounded on all sides (for miles) by farms, fields & farmers! And, in the field in front of me, off in the distance (on the Eve prior to Lughnasadh) I was treated to a spectacular fireworks display! I have often wondered if the farmers new that this was the Eve of a Sabbat, or that it was at least a Harvest Feastival!?!?!? So, soon after the last whisp of light faded into the warm embrace of the night, I went back inside, and retired to bed. That night, one of The Morrighan's triplicities (whom is also frequently honoured on Lughnasadh) came to me in a dream; She came to me in the guise of the Macha ['Plain' or 'Field']! And, because I'm sure The Goddess knows how stubborned and left-brained I can sometimes be, She came to me on the Eve after Lughnasadh; this time as The Morrighan, dressed in Her dark robes & vestments. That was enough for me to take the hint! I have worshipped Her ever since! And, since, I have heard music in the call of the crow...felt Her black wings of protection & love! After all, we worship the Old Gods because we love Them." Also, contrary to what modern Pagans like to believe, She was not (and is not) a War-Goddess, but an Earth-Goddess-- at least according to to modern academia, as I have reseaarched Her.

Furthermore, my "Pagan name", if you will, came via similar means, as well. Albeit, a very few years there after. It is merely a spiritually adopted surname: Wade MacMorrighan [Ir., "Wade Son of The Morrighan"*]. It came to me, one quiet night, during a light state of trance. And, being as stubborn, as I often am, I could not accept it at face value. So, I had to validate it, rather than seem somewhat foolish in adopting a senseless spiritual name. And, it so happens that it was correct! As with all things, I neither chose this name, nor the Goddess whom I serve!

* Similar to other such Irish-Gaelic names, although this patronymic happens also to be Scottish-Gaelic, as Manannan mac Lir [Ir., Manannan "Son of the Sea"], Aengus Mac Og [Aengus the "Son of Youth"] or Mac Grinene [Ir., "The Son of the Sun"], etc.

Oh, and, incidentally, because of my belief in synchronicity, I am in the process of writing a few books, too (more than a few, actually)! For about 3 months straight, I'd talk to several fellow pagans, or dear friends of mine (this was about 3 years ago), and talk about this-or-that, and each one would say to me, "You should write a book!" So, I am! I'm actually co-authoring two with a well known British Pagan author-friend of mine, and have permission to use the local history museum, and the Museum of Witchcraft in Boscastle, England, to perform some further research! I can't wait!

Other than that, the only other bit of information I have to add is this: I'm a Consecrated Priest of the Irish Earth-Goddess, The Morrighan (don't take my word for it, look it up if you don't believe me-- please; often people don't, despite the current thinking that's so often dismissed as "inconsequential"!). And, unlike some other posers that are skulking about the cyberspace, She chose me to serve Her, rather than so many Buffy Bunnies (and Fluff Bunnies) invoking Her to their pedantic ends, or what they think She is based upon specious, "fixed," late 19th. century pseudo-scholarship.

But, I really am a nice guy, honest! I just tend to get upset by all of the posers that plague modern Pagan Witchcraft these days. Especially the anti-Fluffy Fundamentalists (despite the fact that I'm as anti-Fluffy as all get-out, but not to such an extreme!) which are just as bad as the Fluffy Bunnies in many respects (they like to tell everyone how wrong they are, or claim one's research is crap, despite the shifting winds of academia or methodology), or enact out-and-out character assassination for no other reeason than their own selfish Egos. Another personal quibble I only very generally admit to having is that such individuals refuse to, for example, question what they are "taught," taking it for granted as some "holy writ"! "Initiation" is a prime example of this: Far too many so-called "Pagans" (and un-Initiated, too boot!) are under the impression that it denotes a membership into a secret club, to learn said "secrets". In other words, this is the ONLY acceptible definition of "Initiation". Well, this is only an erroniously simplistic definition as far as I'm concerned. And, for this reason, I have differentiated what I term "Ritual Initiation" from "Authentic Initiation"-- an "Authentic Initiation" (which may include "Spontanious Initiation") being that which cannot be bestowed upon by anyone else, but can only, ultimately, come from within; The Charge of the Goddess even speaks of this! In fact, the author of The Charge Of The Goddess, Doreen Valiente, also questioned the Initiatory-mandate that "only a Witch can make a Witch"!-- she's my hero (another hero of mine is UCLA Archaeologist, Marija Gimbutas, because she dared to interprate)! I also recommend Mircea Eliade's Shamanism: Archaic Techniques In Ecstacy for an examination of a shamanistic-Initiation cycle.

I really have to grind my teeth when the "Occult Police" take to throwing their weight around! So, enough of my ranting...I'm sure you're sick of it by now!

Albeit I do not consider myself "Wiccan"-- despite the fact that this was the method through which I came to The Craft-- structurally-speaking (it even applies to the 8 Sabbats that I personally celebrate-- hey, I'd be mad to turn down a chance to party! LOL) I follow "Wiccan" proceedures to an extent, while following at the heart of my practice what may best be described as Gaelic Traditionalism (i.e., Reconstructionism). So, I guess one could define me as a cross between a Witch-Priest and a Gaelic Traditionalist/Reconstructionist!

Thanks for letting me ramble, a bit!

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 1 reply

Ronald Hutton's been served!

2006-12-28T17:53:20Z

LOL... With all due respect to prof. Hutton I've always wanted to be able to say that to someone, regardless of whom. ;o)

Anyway, Hutton apparently wrote an article by the name of: What Did Happen To Lindow Man? Why Britain's best known bog burial can no longer be used as evidence for human sacrifice on Friday, January 30, 2004 [http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/news/articles/TLS_LindowMan.pdf ]. However, in a responce [http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/news/articles/Lindowresponse.pdf ] to this article (on 7 February of the same year; I found these articles purely by accident, btw), one Dr. JD Hill, the curator for the British Museum's British and European Iron Age dept. responded in kind, stating that Hutton made a number of factual errors in his polemic, and was clearly 20 years behind the times and the latest research and evidence!

Hmmm...I wonder what latest research is being advanced (and by what scholars) concerning the theory that the bog bodies are likely evidence for Iron Age Sovereignty Rites?

Personally, I found Hill's responce very refreshing, and would like to thank him some how! After all, it still worries me that no professional scholars of whom I am aware have censured Hutton in any way for his methodological short-comings (that's being polite), or for his sentance structure that implies that he (Hutton) has an omniscient or exhaustive knowledge on a given subject, when, in fact he's simply wrong; or how he refuses to balance the equasion, if you will, by dismising without thought scholars that disagree with the British academic school of thought or institution [eg. Eva Pocs, among many others]; factual errors; how he is allowed to blatantly mischaracterize an author's thesis [eg, Prof. Carlo Ginzburg] as though what evidence Carlo presents isn't really what it means (in other words, he's misinterpreting Ginzburg); as well as refusing to ask some very impoirtant inquestions that should have been evident to him from the very beginning! Of course, I could go on, and on, but I wouldn't wanna' bore anyone; time is also short, tonight. :o)

These are very important concerns of mine, and I believe that scholars should strive to acknowledge them, because left unchallenged they give a highly misleading impression.

Moreover, I must admit, I find it delightfully ironic that an Archaeologist is repremanding a Historian! After all, it was Hutton in his Stations of the Sun who made the pompous claim that (paraphrasing) Historians simply know more than Archaeologists, because the latter are not Historians!

Of course, I have many, many, reasons for not being able to wholey trust Prof. Hutton-- he was the primary promt that disillusioned me so deeply against Professional Historians (some of these are outlined below):

What bothers me so deeply is how if one dares to question Hutton (regardlessly of how small) they are thoughtlessly dismissed. Sometimes I am called a "History Revisionist" (a term I find particularly offensive), or have been told I'm simply biased, or don't know what I'm talking about, or even, that I'm just pissed because Hutton didn't tell me what I wanted to hear, and so I'm just pitching a fit and looking for any petty excuse to decry him, etc. *sigh* Furthermore, I find it hard to believe that Professional scholars can simply look the other way, and turn a blind eye, to the problems deeply engrained within his texts!

I must admit that the more I learn, the less seriously I am able to take British academia! Yet, British scholars severely come across as though they look down on other geographical branches of academia save theor own-- as though it's seriously them against he world! And, yes, I know that sounds extreme, but I tend to see such an attitude far too often to believe much ese.

Someone asked me, recently (as if it's some sort of sin), why I qualified my endorsement of Ronald Hutton so severely. I should have been more specific than what I was. So, I would like to devote this thread to that. What follows is merely the examples that I could think of, and tack down in his books, within the past few days. Also, I would like to refer the reader to these reviews by Max Dashu and Asphodel P. Long of his The Pagan Religions of the Ancient British Isles; apparently, after Long's review was published, Ronald wrote the journal a letter informing them (according to the Ed., with whom I spoke) that he didn't know enough about the topic before writing about it: http://www.suppressedhistories.net/articles/hutton_review.html (though Hutton stated that Max Dashu "isn't a scholar of any sort!" in a private e-mail that was posted on one Pagan site; the author of said "site" refused to acknowledge Dashu's fair criticism of Hutton, dismissing her thoughtlessly as incorrect purely due to political motives) and http://www.asphodel-long.com/html/pagan_religions.html

Unfortunately, one problem right off the bat is how Hutton is often thoughtlessly dismissive of other scholars that have an opposing view point, as though they're entirely inconsequential. As a result, Hutton's work is sorely in need of an objective stance; he needs to "balance the equasion", if you will... Indeed, he's far too keen on ONLY recommended and advancing those scholars which AGREE with him. It's a shame, however, that many rather gullible Pagans simply wave this through, under the banner of so-called "academic rigour"!!! (Honestly, I'm just a li'l offended by that!) Furthermore, it has come to my attention that Hutton really isn't in the habit of writing a histiography-- other-wise they'd surely be FAR more balanced and objective!-- but works of polemic (there's a major difference)! Here is a list, for ease-of-reference, of many quite egregious problems I have found with his writings:

1.) Ronald Hutton (The Stations of the Sun), in his minimalist zeal, claims that any such notion positing divination within the realms of Samhain were based upon "the flimsy nature" of the evidence gathered by two outstanding British scholars (John Rhys and Keating); evidence which is now believed to be inconsequential in Hutton's *opinion*. Rather, Hutton merely *thinks* that these two academics were in error when gathering the local folk-traditions throughout the British Aisles (an accusation he believes should have been apparent to them from the beginning) because the existence of purification rituals and divination "could be explained either by a connection to the most eerie of Christian feasts (All Saints) or by the fact that they ushered in the most dreaded of all the seasons." Unfortunately, he offers no documented evidence to support his thesis—- just an opinion portrayed as though it were empirical fact. (Where's the evidence, Ron!?!?!) For example, nowhere in this tome does he expressly find any documentation that the Christian feast of All Saints was in any way perceived of as "eerie"—- all we have is his lauded opinion. Nor does Prof. Hutton supply any documentation that portrays the genesis of British divination as one that results from this most "dreaded of all seasons" [Hutton 1996: 363]! Had he bothered to do so, I would have found that to be a far more convincing argument. Hutton's "opinion", here, is clearly unsubstantiated! Why he's putting it forth as fact is anyone guess. Actually, in retrospect, it looks like he's simply selling out, making a name for himself, by brown-nosing the skeptical rationalists! ("Skeptical rationalists" can be defined as those that believe if a thesis can be questioned—- regardless of how feeble their line of questioning or reasoning—- that their thesis is, by default, the correct thesis!) Be that as it may, Hutton apparently believes, privately, that a lack of evidence does not necessarily equate to evidence of non-existance. Gee, you wouldn't know it from his texts! But, I digress... What Hutton also failed to take into account is the endemic folkloric evidence of divination throughout the aisles. Often times divination involves the use of hazelnuts, and often for the purpose of love, rather than survival enquiries, despite how Hutton might paint it. Hazelnuts were sacred to the paleo-pagan Celts and are numerously found in medieval Irish mythological tracts. Furthermore, he seems to have an open disdane for other theories of any kind, yet...he's more than happy (and ready) to supplant his own! Hypocritic, n'est pas?

2.) What bothers me is how Hutton has, rather, engendered a sort of overt form of blind skepticism in modern Pagans where no proof is proof enough to them (perhaps cynicisim might be more apt a denotation)! Now, skepticism is a good thing! However, I don't believe that one should be blindly skeptical. Hutton exemplifies this beautifully when discussing Margaret Murray. As I understand it he basis the demollishion of her as a respectible authority on two primary scholars, Norman Cohn and Kieth Thomas. Well, Cohn is the most problematic of the bunch! Cohn often uses one's age as ammunition to dismiss and critique an author or idea-- and he does likewise to Murray, when he writes, "by the time she turned her attention to these matters she was nearly sixty.[!]" This is discriminatory, and Hutton should have seen this going on in Cohn's book Europe's Inner Deamons—- there's really no excuse in that he ignored it! (Hutton should be ashamed of indirectly endorsing this! In fact, if I recall, back in 1999 in a review of "A Coven Of Scholars" that he wrtote, he actually seems to endorse it when applied towards an unpopular scholar) Then Cohn grossly misrepresents Murray and hence asssassinates her character for generations to come! Cohn accused her of ommitting from the testimony of alledged "witches" anything that would have discredited her-- this is a mendacious lie on Cohn's part! Cohn also accuses her of failing to discuss the problematic nature of certain evidence, which is apparently not the case, for Murray *does* discuss the problematic nature of this "evidence"! Furthermore, if one goes back to compare and contrast what Cohn was saying of Murray with what Murray actually wrote, you would be stupified. In fact, she had apparently not ommitted these passages (as Cohn alleges), but considered them in detail! Indeed, if this is so, it would be practically scandelous that Hutton would be entirely unaware of this, or havng never checked, and just rather blindly relyed upon the "say-so" of another author. (Heck, it's academic suicide, IMO!!!) Now, this is not to say that Murray does not need extensive up-dating; she wrote in the 1930s, after all! But, the scholars that have alledgedly discredited her need to seriously rethink their position. Moreover, during the last week of October I decided to read a little more of my copy of Ginzburg's The Night Battles and read something equally astonishing: According to Prof. Ginzburg, the (now) late Prof. Cohn pretty much pulled the same stunt with Ginzburg's own work! Ginzburg says, "Equally unjustified on the other hand, in my opinion, is the assurance with which [Norman] Cohn, in a polemic with [J.B.] Russell (and also because of a misrepresentation of my book) concluded that, 'the experiences of the benandanti...were all trance experiences.'" [pp. xiv]. However, the late Prof. Cohn would have dismissed this all as illusory and, hence, inconsequential without a second thought! (Hutton himself similarly mischaracterizes Ginzburg's book, albeit more egregiously, as though if he repeats something often enough it'll become fact!) I must admit that I find this pattern deeply disturbing. After all, Hutton's certainly dismissed scholars with whom he fundamentally disagreed for pulling the same crap as Normal Cohn did (even for pulling much less than Cohn and others!). I also find it hard to believe that Hutton could have, in good consciousness, been ignorant of these scholastic failings... That is an unfortunate mistake... Hutton seriously needs to rescind, or at the VERY least, qualify his endorsement of Norman Cohn as a scholar! However, he blatantly refused to do this, even as early as a 2003 issue of [The Cauldron (a British Pagan Journal), despite this evidence. It simply makes Hutton look biased, I'm afraid, and a rather poor scholar, to boot. Honestly, as will be seen again, and again, I have noticed a marked sanctamonious attitude in Hutton's writings—- the rules he applies to others, he does not often apply to himself. A friend of mine that's getting his PhD quipped it to me this way, "Hutton plays fast and loose with the rules."

Heck, Coh lists some very hard to believe reasons for dismissing some entirely uncoerced witchcraft trials! One man was cassually questioned by the authorities, for being what was known as a "Free Spirit", because they were known to practice both male and female homosexuality as they saw the refusal of such desires to be the only "sin". Well, along comes Norman Cohn that completely, without thought, dismissed this account, because the individual was apparently, to him (bearing in mind the man's been dead for centuries, and Cohn has no degree in Psychology!), a "paranoid megalomaniac", "schizophrenic", or "nihilistic"!

No scholars seemed to question Cohn's thinking in *any* way! These seem awefully far-fetched "excuses" for dismissing evidence, to me. I mean c'mon, who's he trying to bull shit!!! In fact, another historian simply dismisses this Medieval individual as "psychopathic"! I, for one, have never seen such abhorrant methodology in all my life, especially when advanced as so-called "academia"!

Refuting other textual documentation that would have refuted Cohn's main thesis (that there were no witches, nor any sense of paleo-pagan "survival") Cohn accuses a few women that freely admitted to attending a sabbat and of night travel of being sinile, when he says of them that this is "something that has hitherto happened in the minds of silly old women." This is not only ageist (his distinctive trade mark), but sexist!

Sadly, Cohn's lies are still repeated by Hutton and other British scholars as though they are empirical facts!

3.) The Stations of the Sun: In a footnote for Chapter 40, Hutton claims empirically of Celticist Dr. John Carey, that he has been yielding astonishing results about paleo-pagan Samhain beliefs and practices from a paper he delivered at The Institute of Historical Research, as well as in an issue of the academic Journal Eriu, which he was not able to acquire. Despite Hutton's claim, according to the above-mentioned friend of mine which has as his academic advisor, Prof. Carey—- not only did the article at hand not deal with Samhain in any significant way, but Carey has never set foot onto "that learned Institution" [ie, The Institute of Historical Research]! (Carey's still curious about why Hutton made this claim.)

4.) In Pagan Religions, Ronald says, "...Odin sacrifices himself to himself, and so gains arcane wisdon. It is one of the most haunting passages in Norse literature, in which readers can at least feel close at least to the inner world of norther European paganism. Or can they? Can it be that the entire episode is the Crucifixion translated into Scandinavian myth? Christ and Odin are both hanged upon a tree (the latter being the common medieval term for a scaffold, applied very often to the cross). Both are pierced by spears, thirst, cry out and are resurrected with infinately greater glory (Odin after nine days, Christ after three). All this is surely too much to be coincidental, and although present-day scholars are divided over whether it is a Chrstian poem or not, it seems beyond question that its form was heavily influenced by Christianity. So, after all, it seems to tell us little about the nature of the older religions of Scandinavia" [pp. 296-7; 1991]. However, rather hypocritically, if you ask me, Hutton bases his conclusions only on the similarities, rather than acknowledging their fundamental differences-- an offense he levied upon such "poor" scholars as Frazer, for example! After all, had any other researcher claimed that the similarities between Osiris, Adonis, Dummuzi, etc. were the most likely authentic anecedants to the Christ myth (because they were obviously "too much to be coincidental") you can be sure that he would have stomped them into the ground with scorn! Indeed, Hutton almost seems too eager to casually default to a Christian explaination—- and it does often appear that Hutton has shifted the burdon of proof (see what I wrote of "skeptic rationalists, above). It is also interesting to note that the Catholic Church has, astonishingly, made many Encyclopedia publishers alter texts that do not portray them in anything but a positive light! But, I digress... Of course, at first glance, it sounds amazingly convincing, for those that don't know much about shamanism (or any topic with which Hutton concerns himself—- he appears to may an iron-clad concincing case to those that don't know any betetr), or even Indo-European studies (something Hutton never brings into play throughout this specific text), etc.! However, I have to wonder if, at this point, Hutton was familiar the works of Mircea Eliade (particularly his master-work, Shamanism: Archaic Techniques of Ecstacy—- a book he later treats as flawed and inconsequential in future writings)? So many contemporary-early, as well as modern (recent) scholars seem to go on about Heathenism being drenched in a various form of shamanism—- yet, this is all but denied in Hutton's book dealing with the subject. One wonders why this corpus of academia is being ignored? To briefly excerpt Davidson Gods & Myths of the Viking Age: "It was thought at one time that this image of the suffering god hanging from the tree must have been derived from the Christian Crucifixion. But, despite certain resemblences, it would seem that here we have something whose roots go deep into heathen thought, and which is no late copy, conscious or unconscious, of the central mystery of the Christian faith. By hanging on a tree, Odin is not sharing in the suffering of the world or saving men from death, but he is there to win the secrets of the runes..." [pp. 144; 1964]. She also goes on to relate that a variety of shamans are "made" by climbing the World Tree (or axis muni), which is a strong "northern" motif. While, other shamanic parallels are also noted: Like the shamans of the Mongols, both they and Odin tethered their respective horses to their percieved "World Trees". This scene is also clearly one in which Odinn is being "sacrificed" in the manner pre-dating the Viking age. For example—- this pre-viking practice entailed that prisoners/sacrifices be hung onto trees which was continued clear up until the 10th. century at Uppsala. I also believe that there may be an echo between Frejya teaching Odinn Her especial Magick, and the Yakut "Bird Mother of Prey" who carries off the prospective shaman to learn his abilities to "shamanize". Indeed, if we accept that this is actually an axis mundi (as Hutton seems hesitant to do, well...actually refusing to acknowledge), than we can clearly see the death and rebirth theme embodied in the psychological transformation of "Authentic"/"Spontanious Initiation"! Davidson also states that Odinn is depicted hanging from a tree in an early Swedish rock art—- though, of what date, I have no idea. Would it be fascinating to find this out? Abso-freakin'-lutely! This is one fascinating claim that I would, personally, love to research! But, unfortunately, in this particular text, Davidson did not relate any information about this stone with which one may use to find further information concerning it. Too bad... But, to back-track slightly, because Odinn is undergoing this horrific experience, I would definately be willing to assert that it is an Initiation experience, due to the fact that He is acquiring a special form of knowledge embodied in a very masculine form of old Norse Magick, known as galdr, which is respectively idetified with the casting of runes. The shamanistic extent by which Odinn is certainly identified is noted in a great many prose tales in which the God appears. Another VERY important question that Hutton should address—- otherwise, I think he's making some rather grand methodological leaps!—- is if this medieval term for a cross/scaffold is found in Germany/Scandinavia; or if it's only found in English/British areas (of which he is, generally, a scholar)? Ater all, if it doesn't appear in Germany or Scandinavia, than Hutton's reductionist theory—- a school of thought that is now rather untenible—- would be impossible to accept! Something else leaps to mind that Hutton also seems to have glossed over: the Christ was NOT "hanged" on a tree; he was nailed to a cross and crucified! Now, Odinn, however—- he WAS literalled "hanged" from a tree. They apparently, so far as I will advance, two completely differenbt modes of dying/death! And, still, I remain skeptical of Hutton's beliefs concerning the World Tree upon which Odinn is hung as being code-word for the cross, unless he could demonstrate that it was similarly known by such language in Germany/Scandinavia when, and especially WHERE, this particular poem was WRITTEN. Now, to my knowledge, he didn't do this—- we're merely supposed to accept him at his word. My own opinions to the side, according to a friend of mine with Asatruar connections, Hutton is apparently 150 years behind the times. "The idea that the Norse myths were substantially affected by either Christianity or Classical Learning was argued by Sophius Bugge. In a series of famous debates with Viktor Rydberg, Bugge's position was defeated, and Rydberg was considered to have fairly won the debates. Rydberg was able to demonstrate the strong Indo-European base to the Germanic myths" [pers. comm.]

5.) Hutton says, again, in Pagan Religions: "None of these images ['Green Man' carvings] could have been a beloved pagan deity, placed in churches by popular demand. The context of this idea was destroyed with the collapse of the Murray thesis, but like that thesis it could hardly have been argued at all by anybody with a real knowledge of the Middle Ages. No churchmen across the entire span of the period described them as such. St. Bernard, in a passage most accessibly printed by Sheridan and Ross, did inveigh against the burgeoning fashion for Romanesque at the beginning of the twelfth century; but his invective does not in fact prove the point suggested by these authors, for he condemned the images as grotesque, silly and expensive, not as pagan. There is abundant evidence, mostly from the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries, for the sort of people who paid the masons and comissioned the carvings. Occassionally the whole parish did so, but much more often those responsible were churchmen (above all bishops and abbots), landowners and wealthy merchants. The central point in The Witch Cult in Western Europe was that ordinary people remained adherants to the 'Old Religion' while the ruling class was Christian. And it was that class that determined how churches were decorated. The Wild Man, Sheela-na-Gig and Green Man were all products of that tremendous upswelling of of medieval culture which has been called the Twelfth-Century Renaissance. And like the more famous later Renaissance it ws a Christian movement, even though it drew upon ancient ideas and images" [pp. 316]. However, Medievalist Samantha Riches, in her monograph St. George [Sutton, 2000] argues the following point: "The haunting image of the 'Green Man'-- the foliate face, redolent of the natural world, which sits so uneasily in Christian churches-- has been identified as a pre-Christian form of St. George. It acts as a reminder of his role as an icon of natural fertility; in fact, 'Green George' is a name sometimes given to this image, which may act as a symbol of the return of spring after the temporary triumph of winter. An interesting echo of this aspect of St, George is found in an Islamic analogue known as 'Al khidr', 'Al Khadir', 'El Khudr', 'Khizr' or 'Jiryis Baqiya'. This figure is particularly associated with the area around Palestine, Lebanon and Syria. He is also recognized by Jews under the name 'Eliyahu ha Navi', who is considered to be a special guardian of Israel, and by local Christians as 'Mar Jiryis'; much of the rebuilt church over the shrine at Lydda was converted to a mosque, and it seems that the tomb was positioned squarely between the two sections of the building, and was thus available to both Christian and Moslem devotees. The various names applied to this holy character equate to terms such as 'Living One', 'the Green One' and 'the Ever Green One'; he is thought to derives from the Greek sea god Glaucos, whose name means 'the Blue One' or 'the Green One', a fisherman who achieved immortality, and hence the status of a god, after eating a seashore herb that he had noticed restored his fish to life. Utnapishtim, a charachter in the Gilgimesh epic, attained immortality in a remarkibly similar way, and this parallel may indicate another influence.

"Al Khidr (and his alternative appelations) is reputed to have found the Fountain of Youth, or the Well of Life, which is said to be located near the confluence of the Mediterranean and the Red Sea. Drinking from the fountain confers immortality, and it is claimed that Al Khidr has been repeatedly killed and resurrected; one story involves the martyrdom at the behest of a pagan king. Some traditions state that Al Khidr bathed three times in the Well of Life: in consequence, his skin and all his apparel turned entirely green, and he leaves green foot prints wherever he goes. [...]" [pp. 33] Not only would it appear that we have an image of a paleo-pagan Deity from Indo-European consequence, but...Hutton appears to be angaging in intimidation tactics. According to another friend of mine, scholars all over the place—- though, seemingly more so in the US and UK—- practice intimidating other academics from voicing a difference in scholastic opinion (usually that of the minority). Stating that "no one with a real knowledge of the Medieval period" would say such-and-such is clearly intimidating! Indeed, this is often why scholars cannot follow protocol and admit that there are reputible views that differ from their own, because there is a large tactic of suppression taking place.

6.) In Triumph of the Moon I found this interesting tidbit, that never seemed to add-up. Basically, Hutton seems to be claiming that there's no evidence for the iconography of The Devil having stemmed from paleo-pagan images from other Deities: "The half-animal nature of the horned god, after all, gave him a much more obvious parallel in Christian mythology than the figure of Jesus, and one absolutely opposed. There is here, indeed, a fascinating possibility which must be left open, because at present we appear to lack a propper study of images of the Devil in modern culture, to complement a large amount of first-rate scholarship upon those in ancient and medieval times. Between 1100 and 1700, both artistic representations and confessions extracted from alleged witches certainly portray Satan at times as half-goat, and often with horns. More often, however, the horns are those of a bull, and his most common characteristics are clawed feet, long ears, and wings (or a bat or a dragon). He is also featured combined with a wide range of other animals, dogs and snakes being the most common, or a a black, or black-clothed, man. It does seem as if the standard modern conception of the Devil as a being with cloven hooves, goat's horns and pointed beard is a ninteenth-century creation, representing a growing Christian reaction towards the importance of Pan as an alternative focus for the literary imagination." [pp. 46]. Yet, in J.B. Russell's 1977 monograph, The Devil (a scholar with whom Hutton is certainly familiar), we find the following statement in numerous transmutations: "The goat form of the Devil derives primarily from the image of Pan. From such theriomorphic ancestors the Devil inherited his claws, cloven hooves, hairiness, huge phallus, wings, horns, and tail" [pp. 254]. Hence, it seems to me that Huttons is severely down-playing this "transferrence", if you will.

7.) Hutton, unfortunatelty, is rather thoughtlessly dismissive of Hungarian Prof., Eva Pocs. In her lit.—- as well as the majority view amongst European scholars—- (from reading Hutton, however, it almost seems like it's the British scholars against the world!), she has found a distinct shamanistic antacedent in Medieval witchcraft belief. She investigated over 2000 records and documents, trials and testimonies from the time (the largest in recent history) to come to this conclusion! In fact, the vast majority of these documents would not be available to the Enghlish-speaker were it not for Prof. Pocs. In a PROPER historiography, Hutton should have at LEAST made mention that most scholars in Europe believe she does, and naming those scholars that are spear-heading this popular European thesis. Yet, such a converse thesis is "conveniently" ignored in Hutton's lit., as though such a disagreeing thesis from any scholar did not exist! However, (finally) in responce to it, Hutton only engages in pure *pedantry* in that 2003 ed. of The Cauldron. In fact, it takes him so long to respond to the mention of Pocs that one wonder's if he'd even read her lit. or merely taken the say-so of another collegue. Rather, Hutton entirely dismisses Pocs. as inconsequential because, "like most British scholars" he *believes* she uses the word "shamanistic" incorrectly—- he believes it can *only* be applied to the tribal spiritual practices of the Arctic north, such as Siberia, never mind that her use of the term is only a freaking similie rather than a blatant metaphore of any sort! Am I the only one that finds this shocking and ill-educated on Hutton's part? Hutton seems, at least to me, to be scraping for any reason to reject a scholar or thesis! I, personally, find that *highly* insulting to my intelligence! Though, most of Hutton's dismissals I find highly insulting to my intelligence, for that matter.

8.) And, finally, a couple other points that really seemed to come to the surface this week, because they bothered me so desperately (I happened to by a new book last weekend by Peter Beresford Ellis that supplied a lot of tested-and-true evidence to the contrary; it's what brought this particular facet to mind, I believe): "...it may be seen already that there is a strong possibility that the whole concept of the Tuatha de Danaan was invented by storytellers, perhaps working in the early Christian era and influenced by the Graeco-Roman myths.... Goddesses rarely feature in the Irish literature as maternal or nurturing, being more often aggressive and vorascious in their sexuality and bloodlust. Whether they represented role models for self-assertive Celtic women, or the fantasies of pagan Celtic male warriors, or the nightmares of the Christian monks who wrote the stories, is an open questiion" [pp.152]. While on page 296 pf The Pagan Religions Hutton further claims, "It is very likely that when writing of the Tuatha de Danaan, the Irish were not recording something in which their ancestors believed but fitting old deities into a structure inspired by the Greek pantheon." He even makes the following claim back on page 152, "...there is no trace in the Irish or Welsh literature of any deity associated with the sun (or moon)." Well, what pf Graine(sp?), whose name means "Sun"? Etymologically, The Daghdha even seems certainly associated with the Sun, when many of his epithets are taken into account, as well, according to Dr. Daithi O hOgain. So, I must wonder what he is denoting as "evidence", and what has so convinced him? Hutton certainly doesn't say, and I believe he *should* have... I certainly would be fascinated in the reasons! But, I digress... Early Hutton seems to be claiming, in essence, is that what insular narrative literature we have on record [eg, The Tain] is purely a case of the mediaval Irish monks re-telling Greek myths! Whereas, Ellis states that several scholars are firm in their acknowledgement that insular narrative literature contains certain direct parallels to Indic/Hindu religion, culture and mythology...not just through linguistics. Now, Ellis has said something similar to this before, such as in his book The Druids, but it was confined seemingly to Celtic culture and linguistics. Here, he is far more forceful and applies it, also, to mythology, etc.! According to Ellis' The World of the Ancient Celts, Celticist Myles Dillon made this statement around 1977; there are scholars that have found similar seemingly-direct parallels through inscriptions, that only seem to reflect Hindu mythological themes, etc. Also, concerning the sexuality of the Celtic Goddesses, he doesn't seem very well versed in the Celtic Goddess as Sovereign-Goddess and Land-Goddess, which can explain such occurances, rather than male warrior fantasies, or Christian nightmares! In fact, amongs Celticists, this theory is as old as about the middle of the 20th century. *sigh* Looks like you're way behind the times, Ron!

Also of interest, an Alexandiran from New Zealand I've located has been tracking down and reading all of Hutton's sources in his Triumph Of The Moon, and found gross mischaracterization, as he relates two examples:

"1.) Hutton paints Leland as a crank and a forger, claiming that Aradia (Herodias) is clearly a figure from Christian not pagan theology and that no other Italian folklorist has found evidence for the Vangel. At this critical point in assassinating Leland's character, he neglects to mention that the eminent Italian historian Carlo Ginzburg famously identified the Benandanti, a cult with more than passing resemblance to the beliefs Leland recorded. Ginzburg also clearly demonstrated the non-Christian origin of the name Herodias ("Hera-Diana", which was normalised by the Church to "Herodias"). Despite Hutton purporting to critique Ginzburg's work elsewhere in TotM, he is either unaware of the main contents of Ginzburg's work, or he purposely ignores it. Other, more detailed scholarly analyses of Aradia, or the Gospel of the Witches since have arrived at much more balanced conclusions (see the article). (Note that I'm not claiming there is a link between the Benandanti and Leland's strega, just that Hutton has misrepresented the facts.)

"2.) One of Hutton's most pivotal claims in TotM is that modern pagan witchcraft cannot be historically-based, because there was no witchcraft, or even any form of pagan religion on which witchcraft could be based, still existing by the early modern era. Apparently not a single person persecuted was a practitioner of a pagan religion. His main support of this is simply citing seven of his creme-de-la-creme of modern scholars, with very little supporting discussion. Some of these are in foreign language, but of those in English, at least two directly contradict Hutton, freely talking about the influences of old pagan religious practices. A particularly juicy chapter is in the cited book by Monter (I think it was Monter, not Midelfort, I don't have any of this in front of me), about white witchcraft, which evaluates the beliefs of witches in France and England, and describes how the "green devils" in the woods were probably old pagan gods and the saints' shrines to which ill people were sent were probably actually dedicated to old pagan gods with a Christian veneer. Of the other books he cites (that are in a language I can read) none make the claim that Hutton does. They demonstrate that most accused "witches" were normal Christians, but they certainly don't go as far as saying "not a single person accused...". A moderate familiarity with the current academic work on the witch-trial period actually reveals Hutton's position as extreme and atypical. (Note that this is not support for a widespread organised witch-cult in Europe, such as Margaret Murray proposed, just another instance of extreme oversimplification and misrepresentation of other authors.)

"These are two examples of extreme over-generalisation and oversimplification, a lack of balance, a bias or a POV if you will. I can't comment on Hutton's motives, but I've found similar fallacies and misrepresentations scattered through his work. Dashu, despite being labelled as a "feminist", has so far seemed remarkably balanced, and is, as far as I have been able to ascertain, solidly grounded in fact."

But, what I would REALLY like to know is why scholars have failed to censure Hutton, as though they're afraid of doing so, for fear of tarnishing their "reputations"! Where is the "check-and-balance" system? Of course, I could surely find further errors, if I went back to re-read every page he's ever written cover-to-cover! There are likely even those that I have forgotten over the eyars, such as this gem that comes to mind:

According to Hutton, in The Pagan Religions, the Gardnerian/Alexandrian (of course, he's citing Janet & Stewart Farrar) cocept of the Goddess cannot be attributated to paleo-paganism in any way—- but it stems soley from Zoroastrian, and by extension to Christianity. This is simply incorrect information and proves that he knows nothing about Zoroastrianism! Rather, Zoroastrianism deals with a seperate and distinct God of Light pitted against a seperate and distinct God of Evil! This is simply not found within the Thealogy of modern Pagan Witchcraft! Hence, Hutton is attempting to complicate Neo-Pagan religious thought more than it is; he is seperating a single Goddess into two, in essence. This simply shows his lack of understanding—- strange, however, given that he was a Gardnerian when writign this text! He even dedicated it to the Clan of the Oak—- albeit he qualified it with a blatant lie. Hutton wrote in the preface that he was accepted into this Clan, and many opther Groups, because he was a professional Historian! However, according t these groups that have since spoken out about the claim, Hutton was allowed into their practices because he was a vouched-for Gardnerian Witch! This is, yet, another example of his mendacity, I fear.

Okay, rant mode off... ;o)

Happy Holidays,
Wade
myspace.com/MacMorrighan
MacMorrigaine@AIM.Com

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 0 replies

Help Save Tara!

2006-08-20T22:54:03Z

Please help save Tara (Irelands most sacred place) by signing the worldwide petition at the link below and stop them from building the Motorway through Tara. All info is in the petition. Be sure to cut & paste this petition on all your Pagan groups & Forums. get your Covens & Groves to sign it. This is very important! PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF THE GODS SIGN! Thank You!

http://www.petitiononline.com/hilltara/petition.html

go na Tiarna agus Bantiarn coill glas beannacht glas tu!
(Irish Gaelic for)
May the Lord and Lady of the Green Wood Bless you!

/|\ Gypsy /|\

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 0 replies

New to tribe

2006-07-14T03:43:21Z

I have been reading since I joined and I could continue to do so for a long time,
I really think I should read more before I add much, there is an incredible amount of knowledge here and it is amazing.
Blessed be,
Zena

posted in "Pagan" Clergy - 3 replies

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