Personally I am very split on this entire debate and cultural movement that is happening around PA's burning of the man early.
I think the way that this has split people is incredibly fascinating and fucking amazing example of the Microcosm that is BM. BM despite its flaws or strengths is proving to be a model for our society in so many ways.
The split between PA supporters and Hatersz is pretty interesting when compared to our 2 party system, as someone has already pointed out, and its very difficult to not get pigeon holed into one or the other. At least in this case it seems.
Did he make a statement? I think so. Was it a valuable one? I'm not so sure. Using destruction as a means for revolution, while deliciously tempting, seems to merely repeat a cycle that ends up getting alot of people riled up and hurt. Even killed.
Whats funny (in that not actually funny but kinda scary kind of way) is how many people are spouting INCREDIBLY hateful and violent energy at each other around this.
This event, and BM in general, seems to bring out a fanatical side to people that is a far cry from the assumed aware and innovative society that I perceived when I first attended in 2001.
I am seeing more and more people insulting each other around maligning what "BM is about". Am I alone in finding that incredibly contradictory? Anyhow...
One thing I do feel strongly about is that a very good friend of mine had a year of his time wasted when his project was cordoned off due o the man being burned early. "The Giving Tree" was an innovative project that included a synthetic tree that used sonar to locate a participant in its field of influence and would then proceed to use an incredibly complex piece of software to hold a conversation with who ever came up to it. It would record responses to add to it's database of words and phrases, while also using frequency analysis technology to "judge" the emotional content of a statement which would change the course of the conversation as the tree decided whether you where a friend or not.
My friend worked very hard on that and he was unable to share it with community. He wasn't hurt physicaly. In a sense he did lose some resources that where allocated to a certain unmet outcome, and he is actually not that upset about it. He's a good man :)
But regardless, an artist was effected in a negative way and I believe that matters. Especially at BM.
I could ramble on and on, but i will end with this: Instead of arguing about who is stupid, who is less then, who is right, who is wrong, or who should be punished or hurt in what way, I would like to suggest that we slow down and see and feel how we effect each other. I don't think that course of action will hurt anyone or infringe on anyones freedom in any way shape or form, assuming that actually matters to most. After that, i don't know. But it couldn't hurt, and maybe one less person in the world would stop howling for the blood and suffering of another.
I think the way that this has split people is incredibly fascinating and fucking amazing example of the Microcosm that is BM. BM despite its flaws or strengths is proving to be a model for our society in so many ways.
The split between PA supporters and Hatersz is pretty interesting when compared to our 2 party system, as someone has already pointed out, and its very difficult to not get pigeon holed into one or the other. At least in this case it seems.
Did he make a statement? I think so. Was it a valuable one? I'm not so sure. Using destruction as a means for revolution, while deliciously tempting, seems to merely repeat a cycle that ends up getting alot of people riled up and hurt. Even killed.
Whats funny (in that not actually funny but kinda scary kind of way) is how many people are spouting INCREDIBLY hateful and violent energy at each other around this.
This event, and BM in general, seems to bring out a fanatical side to people that is a far cry from the assumed aware and innovative society that I perceived when I first attended in 2001.
I am seeing more and more people insulting each other around maligning what "BM is about". Am I alone in finding that incredibly contradictory? Anyhow...
One thing I do feel strongly about is that a very good friend of mine had a year of his time wasted when his project was cordoned off due o the man being burned early. "The Giving Tree" was an innovative project that included a synthetic tree that used sonar to locate a participant in its field of influence and would then proceed to use an incredibly complex piece of software to hold a conversation with who ever came up to it. It would record responses to add to it's database of words and phrases, while also using frequency analysis technology to "judge" the emotional content of a statement which would change the course of the conversation as the tree decided whether you where a friend or not.
My friend worked very hard on that and he was unable to share it with community. He wasn't hurt physicaly. In a sense he did lose some resources that where allocated to a certain unmet outcome, and he is actually not that upset about it. He's a good man :)
But regardless, an artist was effected in a negative way and I believe that matters. Especially at BM.
I could ramble on and on, but i will end with this: Instead of arguing about who is stupid, who is less then, who is right, who is wrong, or who should be punished or hurt in what way, I would like to suggest that we slow down and see and feel how we effect each other. I don't think that course of action will hurt anyone or infringe on anyones freedom in any way shape or form, assuming that actually matters to most. After that, i don't know. But it couldn't hurt, and maybe one less person in the world would stop howling for the blood and suffering of another.
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Re: My 2 cent thread.
Wed, September 26, 2007 - 6:49 PMI certainly hope you're posting this thoughtful point on the Burning Man tribes where the bloodlust is running high. We really aren't getting much of that here. its pretty one-sided really, I've never seen any Addis supporter calling for blood, rape, mayhem, etc. I've never even seen one calling for other people to do exactly the same thing Addis did. what i see the overwhelming majority calling for is more thought.
Even those BMorg-apologists who aren't calling for blood really aren't calling for much thought. 99% is pretty knee-jerk. Whereas among Addis supportes its about 25% knee-jerk. a very significant and telling difference, IMO.
as to the friend who lost time, I feel bad about that and i think most everyone does. it sounds really cool. all I can say is, I wish he hadn't done it as part of this corporate expo/shopping mall/whatever that BMorg out under the Man.
I think BMorg should have given the corporate exhibitors fair warning, along the lines of the one on the back of the ticket, but specific to the commercialization. Something like, "by participating in our commercialization of Burning Man, which goes against everything Burning Man stands for, you voluntarily assume risk of having a lot of your time wasted because we are guaranteed to profoundly offend and deeply hurt a very large number of people who are well known for their pranks with fire at Burning Man, where its always been OK to do pranks with fire. Just sayin..".
As unreasonable as something like this would be under any other circumstances, at Burning Man it would have been simple minimal practical responsibility. I think BMorg was seriously negligent in doing what they did the way they did it, and I think they should split all the damages -and apologies - to legitimate bummed out artists, with Paul, 50/50.
Simple justice. -
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Re: My 2 cent thread.
Thu, September 27, 2007 - 1:58 PMI did make a point to post this on the BM tribe...whee it promptly beacame swept away without a single response.
My post was not aimed at anyone here, I just wanted to see who would respond and how. I did not got his year so I did not even know until recently that there was a corporate element to the pavilion under the man. From the way people have been describing it, I must say it sounds very creepy in the context of BM.
I do plan on going next year though, as my intuition is telling me that it might very well be the most "interesting" year yet.
I only hope that there is no violence. Although it seems lik it might be probable as here already was this last year. -
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Re: My 2 cent thread.
Thu, September 27, 2007 - 2:44 PMEugene:
> I do plan on going next year though, as my intuition is telling me that it might very well be the most "interesting" year yet.
Between run for the border, inverted man, etc, it does seem like a bit of a revolution is at hand.
I wonder if the BMORG will make some big changes in the next 10 months to quell the discontent. if not, I can actually see the momentum for this revolution just grow, and next year could be very interesting indeed.
All of the violent statements that I've heard have been from the BMORG supporters. The most violent thing that I've heard from any of the John Law / Cacophony supporters was the idea to build a catapult and launch a flaming pie at the man. So, hopefully nothing will get to the point of violence. -
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Re: My 2 cent thread.
Thu, September 27, 2007 - 3:09 PMThe only people i have any empathy for are those whose works were hosed down and ruined. Maybe some of it goes against the flavor of Burning Man in its commerciality, maybe it was all good art in there. I dont know and it doesn't matter. It sucks that there was collateral damage.
The sad thing is that the supporters of Paul all just want this to be better thing than it is, while those calling for blood... Hell, I dont know what they want besides torturing people. The status quo? They feel violated obviously, but really besides the people whose work was in the pavilion and those who volunteered to build the man, nobody missed out on the show. In fact, they got two shows.
I've learned one thing. There are lot more burners who I dont want to be around when they are high as kites calling for the rape of people they dont like. What's that about? I fear the only changes will be for the worse. Less rights for more money. Less art for more money. And more people who advocate rape.
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Re: My 2 cent thread.
Fri, September 28, 2007 - 8:44 AMOk...
Look. Let's cut out all this neo hippy bullshit and get down to the bottom line.
Anyone bitching about what Paul may or may not have done is much like the State preventing a death row inmate form committing suicide the day before their execution. Cause, ya know, we wouldn't want to deprive anyone of the satisfaction of killing somebody. And they can't let him kill himself, THAT'S ILLEGAL!
Seriously. That's what this boils to. It's that simple. Everything else is just a bunch of rhetoric and monday morning spirituality.
Short of the people that actually constructed the man, NOBODY should feel any attachment to it. Its' a piece of wood that gets lit on fire. If you have an attachment, guess what, you've now accepted BM as a religion. Congratulations of fucking up the world just a little bit more because, ya know, we're really lacking on the mud hut mentality of tromping around half naked in the desert worshiping some giant statute some guy built, pointed to it and said "PAY ME MONEY TO WORSHIP IT"
am i the only one that sees this?
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Re: My 2 cent thread.
Sat, September 29, 2007 - 8:32 AMWhen was BM not religion?
It was as soon as anyone heard about it, and started traveling toward it as a result. -
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Re: My 2 cent thread.
Sat, September 29, 2007 - 5:01 PMLet rename it to Burning Moobie
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Violance at BM
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 1:10 PMReligion. Esh.
So here is a story that a friend of mine related to me (same guy who built the giving tree actualy). He saw this first hand, and he does not lie to me so I believe that this is true.
Apparently, after Paul had burned the man, been to jail and returned to the Playa, someone had taken Paul's photo and posted it all over their art car with signs rejoicing in what Paul had done. This art car was driving around minding its own business playing music and generally being fun and crazy. The art car parks near the man and is playing music and some guy walks up and starts ripping the posters off. The driver comes over to give a proper WTF and the guy who was ripping the posters off decks him and starts yelling at him about "shaming the name of Burning Man" or some such nonsense.
This interaction to me seems like a proper metaphor for an aspect of what the larger picture is in the BM community right now. Strange, fanatical, violent tension seething right below the surface.
As an observer (yes I like to witness as much as I like to participate) I find this frighteningly interesting. I cant imagine how to possibly stem the flow of this energy. I have not been for many years (5 only) but in the time I was there, I feel as if I watched a definite degeneration of what I would call chaotic beauty, into just plain chaos.
I hope I am making sense. -
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Re: Violance at BM
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 5:29 PMMaking total sense, and it's what we have been talking about for years now, the cult of burning man that arose from a bunch of people throwing a party in the desert.
Humans are on average, so pathetic and lost, that they're always looking for some hidden meaning or 2 two guide to spirituality because they have none. They're walking around looking for the next thing to tell them how to think.
Consider the statistic that goes something like, for every leader there are several followers. What would happen if you have a few thousand leaders meet out in the desert for 2-3 weeks building some wacky crazy things and having a good party. What do you think would happen after a few years?
If you're still not sure, it's what BM has become.
Founders are believing their own tax evading rhetoric bullshit, the masses are worshiping them as visionaries. The followers gladly buy their ticket to salvation a year in advance and will maim or kill any infidel that belittle or defiles their wicker god man..They worship a giant effigy and set it ablaze in sacrificial tribute. That's what it's become.
What started as a mockery as turned into the real thing. We're talking old testament alter and sacrifice of martyrs here.
Now... are you ready for the best part....
These BM cultists will gladly sit for hours and tell you how the bible is bullshit, religion is a scam, there is no god and that if you believe in any of that you are a stupid primate.
now THAT.... is comedy.
--S
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Unsu...
Re: My 2 cent thread.
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 5:53 PM>>am i the only one that sees this?
no, we all see this in certain degrees. i'm usually the one who is overflow with emotions on the subject, which is nice because i can say, shatter, you're OVERFLOW with emotions on this.
your emotions are good. you're right to feel such total indignation. when you go over-the-top (as we all do) you lose people who are otherwise listening to you.
my advice is to (try at least) to tone down how badly you feel about what is happening to the event that you love so much. i say this, and my next post tomorrow will be calling for a certain number of heads - starting with, alfredo garcia!!!
alas, i think most of us here understand how you feel. -
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Re: My 2 cent thread.
Mon, October 1, 2007 - 8:48 PMwas I the only one who saw the transition of BMORG to CORG to SEA-ORG -
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Re: My 2 cent thread.
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 2:20 PMi meant to say foresaw
see the whole problem with paul is his body thetans
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Re: My 2 cent thread.
Wed, October 3, 2007 - 5:40 AMI HAVE NOT YET BEGUN TO GET EMOTIONAL
THIS IS TRIBE
Emotional is the wrong word. i really have no emotions about BM besides disgust and perhaps disappointment. Kinda like watching a child grow who has a lot of potential and a few years later you see him laying in the tenderloin OD'd on china white with a needle still in their arm.
Beyond that, taunting burnies is like mugging the retarded.
--S
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Re: My 2 cent thread.
Tue, October 2, 2007 - 2:25 PMIt's amazing,
Someone who is more self righteous than I am..............
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