So, the drummers are exchanging numbers and talking about setting up somewhere else or on another day. Not surprised. I saw some fucked up attitudes there and it mostly the performers (and one angry drummer who, like me, really hates the used car lot flags). I saw the big guy with the face paint barking a lot, and I saw this one guy standing about a foot and a half from an audience member giving him the don't cross the line look with a lit staff. Him I noticed because he kept getting on of the ends real close to my face. You're pushing too hard.
Concerning the barking males. It is an unfortunate reality it seems that when beautiful women are around, many males of the species will display heightened aggressions. There were in fact beautiful women afoot and none of them made a problem so far as I saw, but the pack males need to be reigned in. Seriously. They we really close to STARTING fights. Over safety. For those who are uncertain as to the precise meaning of Irony, there it is.
OK. This all started because of a post from someone from Eugene. Have you ever been to Eugene? Its like this there all the time. This is what they do. I know. Something uncontrolled happens and somebody gets on-line and says "OHMYGODOHMYGOD! We have to do something, think about the children". Then everybody gets into an uproar and the thing they were trying to protect is destroyed. (Really, I swear this happens a lot there) I call it a Drama Grenade - they seem to manufacture them in Eugene.
The point is that in your (about ten) heads you are doing something very important, but really you're just destroying something beautiful.
Concerning the barking males. It is an unfortunate reality it seems that when beautiful women are around, many males of the species will display heightened aggressions. There were in fact beautiful women afoot and none of them made a problem so far as I saw, but the pack males need to be reigned in. Seriously. They we really close to STARTING fights. Over safety. For those who are uncertain as to the precise meaning of Irony, there it is.
OK. This all started because of a post from someone from Eugene. Have you ever been to Eugene? Its like this there all the time. This is what they do. I know. Something uncontrolled happens and somebody gets on-line and says "OHMYGODOHMYGOD! We have to do something, think about the children". Then everybody gets into an uproar and the thing they were trying to protect is destroyed. (Really, I swear this happens a lot there) I call it a Drama Grenade - they seem to manufacture them in Eugene.
The point is that in your (about ten) heads you are doing something very important, but really you're just destroying something beautiful.
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Re: April 6
Mon, April 7, 2008 - 10:03 AMhere's my 2 cents, not having been at the jam last night.
one of the reasons we've always had good turn out of drummers over the years is that there really aren't places for them to gather and play well into the nite without someone complaining. there used to be drum gatherings all over town (mt tabor, sat market, etc.), but they always get shut down for noise complaints.
my guess is we won't hurt for drummers this summer, even if some folks are talking about setting up somewhere else.
i'd also like to speak to lia's post. she is from eugene. but she's also a dear friend of mine and an excellent and safe performer. she was at the jam on 3/16, and was basically the only person doing safety at all, because we came with our safety gear. she knows what she's talking about, and, as we all agree, that jam was completely out of hand.
because i didn't attend last night, i can't speak to people rutting, or power tripping, or being safe to the point of "destroying something beautiful." from being a human, i guess i can say everyone always has their own opinions, and everyone always seems to think that theirs is the right one.
burning brightly (and safely),
shireen
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Re: April 6
Mon, April 7, 2008 - 10:54 AMI'm not really sure what's new that would piss off the drummers. They don't really seem to pay any attention at all to the fire.
concerning barking males: you and me are barking right now.
I'm not sure what your issues really are. is it the details, like the flags, or it the basic premise of instilling order?
as far as destroying something beautiful, the only ones who would destroy this event are the cops/marshalls or some fire breather melting his face.
I think the conflict here is between psuedo-anarchist, nihilistic, dogmatic anti-authoritarians and people who are willing to compromise some ideals of individual free will for the long term viability of an event that they love too. -
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Re: April 6
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:27 PMI am a drummer, and I pay attention to the fire spinners. They really inspire me. If it seems
like drummers are not paying attention, it is because they have to pay attention to their playing, or things become sloppy and unrewarding. Free-form jams require a lot of attention, especially when there are a rotating cast of scoundrels. But you see, that is the
zen beauty of it.
Drummers love the spinners. You are the flame and we are the moths.
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Re: April 6
Mon, April 7, 2008 - 11:06 AMI talked extensively to one of the drummers last night... a friend of the guy that took down the flags... we came to a lot of agreements with some disagreements still to be figured out. My biggest point in talking to him was to come to some common ground, figure out how to make it all work. One thing we talked about was instead of having a line strung across the area that we would try to rely on larger cones or more white buckets as a visual line. The majority of people are respecting these boundaries. His big thing was that with the flags people couldn't walk through there, and that it's a public place so we can shut off areas. I gave his the C7 guidelines and we talked about the fire station that would soon be fully functional. I explained that what we were trying to do was follow the guidelines so that we could continue the event and not get shut down. Once the flags were on the ground, it still served its purpose, and we agreed that as it ended it worked for the people that were previously upset. I talked about how we gave more space to the drummers, the audience, and the east side… that we were tweaking it depending on need and concern. I said we’d be happy to figure out what works best for everyone.
Another thing I talked with Micheal (one of the drummers) about was moving the drummers to the NW corner, under the light, so that they could see the fire performers... it was his request that the drummers be able to watch the performers and create together. I think this is a great idea since it leaves the South side to walk.
The thing that I kept pushing was community. It’s a public space and trying to figure out how we can work together, follow guidelines, and continue the event safely so that if some one (i.e. the Fire Dept. or Police) come for a visit we can show that we are following guidelines. They know there have been safety issues, so I wouldn’t be surprised to be watched more.
Personally, I thought it went well after the uproar of the flags and recorded music… this I believe was the straw that broke the camels back and might have been part of the explosion. We had music playing while we were setting up… it was still going while the first person lit up and that’s when one of the drummer became upset. We tried to reassure them that the music would be turned off, that it was not our intentions to take over the music… it was shut off… and was a mistake on our part (it was that transition of set up and people showing up)… but I think that may have added to the blow up… then no matter what it was it wasn’t accepted. Once things started rolling I thought it went well.
This is just my two cents…. I’m sure there were a lot of different perspectives out there.
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Re: April 6
Mon, April 7, 2008 - 1:37 PMTwo cents...
After the yelling match about the music began, I took off with my camera to take pictures along the Hawthorne Bridge. My older brother is the dry-alcoholic, brooding, simmering, etc., which is exactly what I would come to the jam to get away from.
As I walked away along the bridge, several homeless-in-appearance types would pass me. Curious, I asked where they were going and they would all reply that their destination was the jam.
Who is this event for?
Angry drummers? Homeless seekers of a Woodstock?
What is the likely outcome of an event with no structure and a historical vacuum of leadership, an event that is frequented by people who invest nothing and thus have nothing to lose if the event ends? The events that transpired this weekend in Michigan come to mind.
When is it appropriate to throw in the towel? Before or after someone gets beaten, burned, stabbed...
Where is the magic wand to wave over this homeless Woodstock thing that now goes on every weekend? It appears that trying to establish a sense of safety in a lawless community is akin to farting against a hurricane.
Why is this event continuing?
Perpetuation of a memory? A sense of duty to those who initiated it? Those who did set up this event, who nurtured it in its infancy are distancing themselves from this Frankenstein monster.
The aggressive pack-male behavior is at the root of this event’s problem. It was that reason that I stopped bringing my nephews and niece to this event last summer. It was that core concern that motivated me to join the safety effort. Seeing it rear its ugly head over and over...
Heck, I’ll just go to my brother’s house. -
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Re: April 6
Mon, April 7, 2008 - 7:10 PM"You're pushing too hard." in some ways I agree with you Gerald... BUT I also believe that in this situation (i.e. the incident in March, the call for help with safety (which were your words too), the Officer last week, the Oregonian last night, with the fire station opening up soon.... I think to get something in place now takes extreme and obvious systems... but I believe that people learn from MODELING... modeling what the C7 guidelines look like, and introducing those guidelines as to WHY we're doing what we're doing. Yes there are some things that may be going overboard, say the 3 safeties for 3 performers... the guidelines only say 1 for every 3 performers, but I think in some of these instances it's also to make a strong statement in the support of overall safety.
To me it's also about COMMUNITY and how we can all work together to continue to use the space. I don't know if I'm a translator, but I'm happy to work with the drummers if they want to be closer to the fire performers... Michael had a suggestion of big cones or white buckets along the east edge instead of the flags.... to me this is a great step in working together, because I was not going to let down that people could not ride their walk or ride their bike right through the area (unless you want the bike in your fire act, thanks Deadletter). What about some sort of lights in/on buckets, red? (Nothing too much). The drummers want to be closer to the fire performers... great! that means in some way, some of them want to be part of the community on Sunday nights. We can work together to find a better position and situation.
“Who is this event for? Angry drummers? Homeless seekers of a Woodstock?” Its personal for each person that is there. Alan, I found your comments and references to your family so parallel… families and communities as individuals have to figure out how to make it work, or give it up… and like all families we have our dysfunction. But we can also have growth, learning and support to get what we all are working towards. We all want to be there for some reason and want the event to continue in a positive direction.
It's about getting the information out to those not reading these threads. -
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Re: April 6
Mon, April 7, 2008 - 7:17 PMSorry for my typos... I hope you get what I'm trying to say and where I'm coming from. -
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Re: April 6
Mon, April 7, 2008 - 9:42 PMIncredible multifaceted vision there, folks.
Sorry I missed the fun: the negotiations and the semi-resolutions, the unity and the freakiness. I like Ben's (Pagoda Kitchen's) projection of the coming Sundays. It could even happen, and almost wants to.
The car-lot flags seemed to precipitate a conflict/recognition/understanding of rights of passage vs areas of performance. Glad I brought them. Excellent that they ended up on the ground. They were only a symbolic barrier anyway (marginally better than the Caution Tape, which reeks of authority). So put the flags on the ground and the cones on top of them to hold them in place.
I didn't bring them with the half-suspicion that they might initiate a crisis which would then allow the possibility of a resolution rather than simply ignite the explosion that was waiting to happen anyway. But its seems to have worked out that way. Tape or banners (on the ground) are purely visual markers -- the burner's refusal to perform when the lines are crossed is the real barrier.
We should encourage the burner's response of non-performance when the symbolic barrier is grossly violated. This will motivate other groups to act as a group, and thereby establish a group identity. That may have already begun to happen with the drummers. Folding chairs and a "special" spot for drummers. Yes! Allow them to establish equity and they have something to protect, too. You might eventually have the drummers stop with the burners, to exert their rights and ethical power.
The burners also need space of their own to hang out before and after their turns (even if they don't take a turn). If it can't be inside the line, let it be in a specific (unmarked) area outside the line or outside the Practice area (how did that go?). Emphasizing security around props and fuel may be the key to keeping the performance area clear. Performers get access to tools and fuel just before and after their set, and everyone else stays outside the line. Is that workable?
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It's difficult not to take an individual's show of testosterone & independance for personal defiance or as the worst aspects of an unruly family member's emotional blackmail. Here it may be _focused_ on someone who is or looks like an authority figure, but it's not really a challenge, it's a show of feathers. He's just saying "I belong here too and I'm claiming space." (Think of a Commanche warrior leaping over the bonfire, making really scary faces for the children---simply as a way to announce his presence and establish his credentials without having to actually scalp someone. Sullen, barely suppressed rage is another version of the same thing.) Acknowledge and respect these shows without responding emotionally to them -- but the show stops until the bike gets moved.
Angie, excellent peacekeeping and working with the groups as groups.
Next Sunday I'll try to stay long enough to help get things going, and then come back later to help pack up. I just hope I can be half the negotiator/bargainer as you all are.
(I love the Drama Grenade description! In 60s encounter groups the rule was that the first one who cries, wins.)
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Re: April 6
Mon, April 7, 2008 - 10:46 PMI had the Portland police contact me to regarding fire jam and I also talked to Mark Warrington Public Safety Manager for Portland Public Parks
and here are some of the concerns they have with our gathering on Sundays evenings down at the Vera Katz Eastbank Promenade.
Yes the space under the bridge belongs to Portland parks department. and they do have big concerns.
1 - The amount of trash (litter) that is being generated and left behind.
2 - Open containers (No person shall sell, possess or consume any alcoholic beverage in any park)
3 - Open flames (No person shall light any fire in any Park, except in areas and/or facilities designated by the Director for such use and in
conformance with all applicable laws. )
4 - Liability issues for the parks department and the city.
Mark Warrington would like to set down and meet with us (the people who are taking charge of this event) and address these issues. And hopefully come to an agreement that would satisfy all parties concerns.
These issues are not just the concerns of just the fire performers, but could impact the drum circle too. We need to put our difference aside and start to show solidarity and work together to resolve these issues.
I propose that we meet with a representative from the Drum Circle (Angry Guy comes to mind) and include them in our planning of the space so that the performers and drummers can coexist together under the bridge. and also include them in our meeting with Mark Warrington.
Does any one know how to get in touch Angry Guy or any one involved with the Drum Circle?
Steve
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Re: April 6
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:38 PMThese firejams are important to a lot of people. Homeless people are people too, and if they want a woodstock, then i hope they find it.
In case you are from another planet, every meaningful event will have undercurrents of unhappiness. Tough luck pal. Perhaps your bad vibes aren't welcome there. But heck, come anyway.
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Re: April 6
Mon, April 7, 2008 - 3:16 PMFuck, I lost my entire post. Took me an hour to write.
Okay, starting again. First, let's remember that we are talking about real people, individuals with names, rather than clumps.
1) Keith and I and the fire staff. Keith was standing inside the circle to 'prove that he could'. I was spinning pretty fast and went to the fire safety to put me out, and almost got him right in the face. I started talking to him about moving back, and while he wasn't going to move back for me (heck, he barely noticed almost getting flamed in the face), we were also joking about how it was because the fire is warm, and nice, and it's nice to be close.
Gerald looked over when we were staring at each other, and I'm glad you pointed out to finish putting out the staff and continue the conversation, and that I was being obstinate too. I stood next to Keith for awhile and we talked about other things.
I crossed the circle to talk to the fire performers. We were ready to not light up the next people until Keith left the circle, and just as we were ready to do that, he got bored and wandered off.
Later that evening, when I was cleaning up (who else cleaned up, eh? eh?) I noticed Keith standing next to his shopping cart and offered him the bottles. And we had another moment of 'togetherness' that may have mitigated our earlier experience some.
2) Draydin - He's the big shouty guy with the face paint who is trying to be helpful and 'part' of something. He's a good guy overall, and of course he becomes a crowd management issue himself when he pushes for order instead of inviting order. We are here to INSINUATE fire safety, not impose it. I'm hoping that I can model for him inviting people to do things and explaining why we'd like it that way, as a way to channel that urge to help into more effective tecniques, less designed to get blowback. And of course I need the same kind of help, as Gerald did when he spoke to me in the above situation with Keith. Overall I think his situation is one of being DISempowered, and therefore seeking power over as a way to balance his power structure within himself, rather than one of showing off for females.
3) Angrier Guy (pulled down the flags) - the amplified music really pushed it all over the edge for Angrier Guy, and I won't pretend I didn't know that Party In A Box wouldn't be provocative. I had thought that we could have turns listening to different things. While him taking down the flags certainly meant a LOT more work explaining to people who were casually wandering across the backstage, overall his position is a good one and it worked out.
I won him over late in the evening by being super excited and bubbly - I explained that I had a lot of camp chairs to bring down for them, and how it would be wonderful to have a full line of drummers along the west side of the fire area. Furthermore, we talked about bringing some benches down, though he did NOT want them to be made of buckets, because people would bang on the buckets and sound like shit. This was shown when Chris was drunkenly banging on the buckets, in the fire safety zone, towards the end.
3) Chris - Chris was the guy who showed up pretty late and dumped his bike right behind the fire safety. I asked him, "hey, can I move your bike a little" and he dumped it right in the middle of the open area being used as flow/Practice Area. And so then he moved it right next to the column.
So we stopped performing and waited, and eventually he moved his bike over to the side. This was a good example of everyone on the fire performer side working together to exercise the only leverage we can ETHICALLY impose - that we can't continue if the perimeter isn't clear.
Then, he took his backpack and jacket off, cracked open a beer, and lit up poi. So that's a little problematic. Towards the end of the evening, he came up to me and hoped he hadn't 'set a bad impression' - overall, I'm sure he's a good guy, though him being OF the community but BETTER than the community is always... meh.
So the people that I have as noticeably involved in conflict (I leave out steve's interactions with Chris or Angrier Man because they weren't necessarily noticeable) was...
Keith -
Angrier Man -
Michael - translator for/to drummers
Ang - translator for/to fire people
Draydin -
Myself
Gerald
Chris
Keith and Angrier Man and Michael were treated with respect and won over a little, and we'll have to see if next week's efforts to support drummers (benches, chairs, prominent location, some cookies, some beer) will go over. Draydin and Chris are both management issues on the other side of the coin, Draydin for being unhelpfully brusque and over-enthusiastic, and Chris for the heavy inebriation/surliness issue.
Gerald was awesome for speaking up (we though Angrier Man was also awesome for speaking up about the Amplified music, even if we didn't like HOW he did it).
If we take the metavirus in the "Grief Cycle" version, the pattern of this change is:
Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression/Analysis
Acceptance.
The first week was denial and surprise. What is this is? The community doesn't know if or what to react to. Week two was anger - will me kicking up a fuss make the splinter/irritant go away? If no, then bargain.
We shall see if next week's efforts to give a lot of love to the drummers, by working on seating, food, prominence, etc, will earn us the ability to bargain for the ONE thing that we care about: Traffic Flow.
The week after will probably be the working out of small, yet important, details once the basic points of contention are addressed. Week 5 is "this is how we do things here NOW" - with the beginnings of a projection into the future.
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Separate/Related Issues:
Alcohol backstage - we need some signs that say, "PLEASE NO DRUGS OR ALCOHOL BACKSTAGE". The obviously inebriated fire performers aside, the presence of the bottles really needs to be curtailed. We wouldn't want it to appear that we are boozing up as a group.
Loiterers - I'm trying to model that if I'm not actively being safety, I step out. Draydin's pals, and the sister of the one fire performer (with the teddy bear backpack) are some of the worst with this, and they help to engender complaints from those that we have asked not to cross the line.
A further reason for this is that I repeatedly saw safeties distracted by friends or other people walking around, and the fuel dump (and all the expensive fire toys) are hard to monitor with a lot of people standing around. And then someone lights up a cigarette...
Turn-taking - this probably simply needs more chalk to show, and people will get used to discussing who goes next. I would point out that we probably wouldn't want to foster an environment where the strong simply walk out and go, and the shy wait forever for a 'turn'.
The perimeter in general: For us to live up to our agreement with the fire department, we need to have and maintain a perimeter. In the long term, this may mean putting someone's staves/poi out while they are in the middle of the set, if/when people try to prove a point by crossing that perimeter.
For those who might not know, last week Jerry Alvarez sent a police officer down to check us out, and he left the event alone BECAUSE we were there taking a new responsibility for how fire safety is being handled. We keep a line with 10' clearance to the audience, or we stop performing till they move back. Everything else is negotiable - manner of separation, drummer location, music, etc, etc, etc.
Again, the only ethical leverage we have is to remove ourselves until people are willing to step out of that area. This only works if there is consensus, and not every fire performer would necessarily be willing to engage in such a boycott. On the other hand, they'd better have their own fueling buckets, fuel, staves, poi, etc, etc, etc.
We have less than 4 weeks, at the outside, when the fire station will have active firemen, and I'm pretty much banking on them coming over to hang out and watch. Though they'll also object strenuously to the public drinking/inebriation.
Wonder how all this is going to appear in the Oregonian Article or the documentary!
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Re: April 6
Tue, April 8, 2008 - 7:34 PMThese detailed filled posts are hard to chew and digest... I'd rather call for another meeting to discus them, meet earlier before set, or call for a training session....
I know that several people have been waiting at set up time... a good chance to put in a short safety training session and talk about the what ifs and get them to part of the why (s) it's being set up the way it is.
It also sounds like we need solid contacts for set up and clean up.
My schedule changes from Sunday to Sunday if I can clean up, but I'll commit to set up.
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Re: April 6
Wed, April 9, 2008 - 11:30 AMdoes anyone have a link to the oregonian article? -
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Re: April 6
Wed, April 9, 2008 - 11:33 AMI'm not sure if it has come out yet... I emailed the reporter, but he hasn't gotten back to me about when it will print. I'll post any information that I get. If anyone has seen it, please post a link. -
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Re: April 6
Wed, April 9, 2008 - 1:24 PMI talked to the reporter that night and he thought that it might come out in a Thursday edition may be the 17th.
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Re: April 6
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 11:27 PMwww.oregonlive.com/portland...index.ssf
City throws water on PDX Fire Jam
Thursday, May 08, 2008
J. David Santen Jr.
Special to The Oregonian
The fire performers came to play, as they do many Sunday evenings, where Southeast Salmon Street dead-ends at the Willamette River.
But this time, the spinners, jugglers and fire breathers were met by city parks and fire officials handing out fliers: "Fire Performance Activities Suspended at Eastbank Esplanade," they read.
Some wadded up the fliers and wondered: Is the PDX Fire Jam over?
For years, performers have gathered to practice beneath Interstate 5. Dozens, sometimes hundreds, turn out: college kids, homeless people, drummers, kids, dogs and curious passers-by.
But the event has violated city code since January 2007, when fires at parks were banned outside designated areas. Officials turned up with the fliers April 27...
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Re: April 6
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 6:16 AMinteresting.....
Thanks for posting this John... he hadn't answered my email about when it was coming out, so I expected it wasn't. -
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Re: April 6
Fri, May 9, 2008 - 7:03 AMYou are welcome. You might keep an eye on WW, the Trib, the Mercury etc.
In addition to David Santen, there was a man in a leather coat with a steno pad who appeared to be interviewing some of the performers on the 27th. David did not recognize him, but opined that he could very well have been a stringer for some local publication or blog (or he might just have been a guy taking notes).
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