Someone said on the other thread that the people who run Tribe.net also run blackjack on facebook.com so I went to check it out and it's true but as it happened the time I was visiting was the same time that blackjack stopped working, I quickly tried to log onto Tribe.net and uh-oh the same problem, not working.
Just throwing an idea out here that Tribe.net may be using it's resources, paid for by certain starred members to help run the blackjack site. They certainly use their man power as nothing has been fixed on Tribe.net since I have been a member and all I can see if people's complaints and squishy pictures so those of you who actually PAY for Tribe.net I have to know what you think about this? Are you pissed off?
Just throwing an idea out here that Tribe.net may be using it's resources, paid for by certain starred members to help run the blackjack site. They certainly use their man power as nothing has been fixed on Tribe.net since I have been a member and all I can see if people's complaints and squishy pictures so those of you who actually PAY for Tribe.net I have to know what you think about this? Are you pissed off?
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 12:31 PMI rather doubt that. There would be genuine issues of fraud in that case, and while I don't know that Tribe's owners are the brightest stars in the ether, I don't think they've been inhaling the ether either.
Most likely they colocate the servers with the same hosting company. You know, the Douchebag Brothers. :D
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 12:41 PM
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 12:41 PMFrom my understanding Wendy does help on Facebook running the gambling games. And is probably taking up much more of her time, which is why we don't see her much on tribe anymore.
but I highly doubt the money is going to them. I honestly belive Mark is giving up on this site, as he has other much bigger financial fish to hold on to. -
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 12:46 PMSurely at the end of the day people paid subscriptions to get a better service from Tribe.net and Wendy spending her time there is not helping? Also how long does it take to sort out basic issues like assigning moderators and sorting out the cropping issues? Not having a go at anyone here it just annoys the heck out of me that people are being taken for a spin. -
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 12:48 PMyeah I hear ya Alistair, Darren seems to be the only one trying to keep this site going... and he is only one man, so I think that is why it's taking so long for those things.
Hell, the avatar crop issue has been going on for at least 2 months now... WTF?
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 12:49 PMIt may be true that the two employees of Tribe may also be working on the blackjack application on Facebook. I haven't heard that they actually work on other aspects of Facebook.
It is unsettling that the premium money may be helping to pay their wages, when at least one of them seems to be absent from Tribe lately. She may be too busy with Facebook's blackjack help issues for all I know to answer emails from Tribe members asking for help the way she used to. I am still waiting for an answer to my e-mails written 2 weeks ago and 1 and a half weeks ago. One can only assume she is not going to answer them. No one waits that long to answer e-mails if they intend to answer them at all.
I do think it's possible the money collected from Tribe premium members can be used on other projects. Linked businesses do this all the time. They use the money they have for whichever project they are working on, and then when they get to the other project (Tribe help) they can use money brought in from the other unrelated project. Don't know if that's great business practice, but as long as it goes both ways, it's okay with me. Hopefully some of the money generated from the popular blackjack application will be able to help Tribe. If the employees meant to be working on Tribe are really spending their hours working on the blackjack application while they are being paid to work on Tribe, then hopefully they will eventually set aside time to spend on Tribe, too. Or at least answer the e-mails.
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 12:50 PMProbably some dudes on a server in Vegas
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 12:51 PMOn the premium page it says 'We are adding more features in the coming months, and we'll announce these in the subscriber newsletter. Your subscription fees go towards improving the site and upgrading the infrastructure.' So that statement alone is probably enough to legally stand up.
If I were a subscription member I would get all other subscription members together and threaten to pull the plug unless they start explaining what they are doing with all the money they are getting. -
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 12:54 PMContact this lawyer people.tribe.net/6a068460-...848cba6b61
TOU Watchdog tribe touwatchdog.tribe.net/ -
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 12:58 PMThe Gold Sttar Tribe has 155 members, paying $5 a month so that's $755 a month. And that's only the people who have signed up to that particular tribe so you can guess there is at LEAST double that out there. Good money spinner this business! -
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 1:04 PMUm, they need to be making upwards of $10,000 a month to keep this site viable. Probably more like $25,000 if they actually want to hire enough staff to grow the place.
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 1:06 PMIt's survived for years with just Google adwords funds so this extra money should be play money.
But my main point is this - people paid more money and now they get less service than ever. -
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 1:14 PMAnd what do you propose to do?
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 8:37 PMWhat I propose to do is refer this matter to a class action lawyer and the attorney general of California, if these allegations are true.
If Tribe.net is in fact using the premium account subscription money to run a black jack website, then that is fraud. Tribe.net has repeatedly solicited the premium memberships by representing that the money will be used to improve the website. Funneling the money to a gambling website does not improve this website and would be a fraud.
Of course, most of these tribe.net addicts will just howl "shut up! How dare you talk shit about my pusher!"
I'll bet tribe.net does respond to this thread, just like they never respond to any thread that poses any questions about accountability at tribe.net.
Are these allegations about the black jack business true? I don't know. All I know is that there is something fishy about the way this company is run.
The whole premium subscription business is fishy. It is very unusual for entertainment-social networking websites like this to run on subscriptions.
And service has not measurably improved since they started taking our money. Hmmm.... -
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 8:38 PMI meant to say I bet they will NOT respond. Why doesn't the "back" button ever let me edit?
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 5:11 AMThere is no reason to bring legal action yet, we need to just stand up and say 'we think you are not providing a service' and take it from there.
To clarify Tribe run a free blackjack application on facebook but they don't run a gambling site, to my knowledge. -
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 5:33 AM"Tribe" does not run a black jack application, Mark's company Zynga does:
touwatchdog.tribe.net/thread/...4a97ea71 -
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 7:18 AMok if we need to be this precise, Tribe staff are being used to monitor a blackjack application on facebook including dealing with all technical and personal issues therein, -
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 1:25 PMIt's probably more accurate to say that Wendy and Darren are employed by Mark Pincus. Period.
Mark Pincus, being the boss, gets to assign the hours or focus or priorities.
The Black Jack and other games on a social network are a great niche. It gives people something to do together, online.
It would be a wonderful addition to this site too. Maybe folks could settle those arguments in a hand of poker instead of year long flame wars.
Except that Facebook is set up very differently than Tribe. They only allow one account, the information given must be true, and there is a lot of required information, like what school you attended. Considering the content of THIS site, that kind of transparency in the user database would cause many problems.
The users themselves pretty much shot themselves in the foot by demanding more freedom. Freedom in the language, freedom in the topics, freedom in the photos. Most of that which is banned via TOU is allowed, as most people don't make a stink about it. And the employees turn the other way.
It's not quite a porn site but has tribes with a lot of porn. It's not quite a political site, but has many tribes and users that focus on real issues or topics. It's not quite a family-friendly site, but has tribes and users that focus on home, recipes, health, exercise, etc. There are so many variations, and fully focusing on any one of them will cause an uproar in other areas.
How many people here would leave if Tribe turned into solely porn? Or only Politics? Or just about Burningman and anything related to Burningman? Or if it was made to be family-friendly and all nudity and swearing were banned? Or if it was just about computers and technology?
How many people would high-tail it out of here if their real information was required? What if people were allowed only one account? What if they merged all the alts people have with their main account?
From a common sense point of view, which would you, as an employer and company owner, put the most time and energy into? The games or Tribe? -
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 1:35 PMAddendum:
No matter how much business sense it makes to put one's time and energy into the games and Zynga company, there is still the responsibility of Tribe.net.
Irresponsibility in the business world is a death sentence.
If it becomes known that Tribe.net is run irresponsibly (we know it), and it's owned and operated by the same people who run the games via Zynga on Facebook, what makes the investors think it will be any different?
Promises that aren't delivered. Refunds that are not made. Issues not resolved. Tribe did have big financial backing:
markpincus.typepad.com/bio/
Not anymore.
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 12:56 PMwhich is why I haven't sent money...
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 12:58 PMI'm sort of the other way around:
there are things I need to see in place *before* tribe.net gets any money from me. I don't cotton to the notion that we all just have to suck it up merely because it's a "free" service. That attitude is what sunk tribe.net. The various managements have had a real hard time understanding what their assets were, what to market, whom to please, how to treat a (previously) loyal user base.
The avi-cropping issue is primarily symbolic, to me: they had something really good, really special, really simple; everyone loved it. They fucked around, ruined it, said "enh, fuck it, send us money" - and then didn't fix a damn thing. It's fine to say "well they don't have time" - but then, if I heard that in *any* other commercial context I think my feet would carry me away far more rapidly than the sound waves of my venomous laughter could ever reach the intended audience. -
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 1:03 PMYep Loki I couldn't agree with you more. Loads of people say "well what do you expect of a free service" and "but Darren is only one man and can only do so much". Well I expect more, loads of free services do better than this and I'm not disputing that Darren is only one man and that he does a lot, but he shouldn't have to and it's not an excuse. I'll pay for more services on tribe when the basic free service gets better. If it goes under in the meantime then yeah it will be a shame but at least I didn't waste any money. They have SO MUCH opportunity here but they just don't seem to know what to do with it. -
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 1:26 PMWell said, Loki!!
I didn't put up the money either, I wanted to see what exactly they were going to do with it... not to mention all of the donuts arising at that time. I wanted to see it improve before I committed my hard earned cash. And all I see is it failing.
The main objective was to keep the site functional, and the FIRST thing they do is start on premium membership extra's like tribe chat, and that piss ugly pink profile page. That's just bad buisiness -
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 11:15 PMIn all fairness, it was numerous members asking if a way to donate or have payed subscriptions in place could be set up that got the premium membership started. Tribe just said 'okay' when so many wanted to help by paying in hopes to keep the site up and running.
That said, though, there hasn't been much in the way of improvements. But if some people hadn't started paying the premium fees, Tribe might already be down for good. When the image server crashed in December, do you think the old Tribe would have even fixed it and kept Tribe going? Maybe not. Unfortunately when the new image server was put in place the distorted avatar and main tribe photos issue started. Now I'm beginning to doubt if that will ever be fixed. Unless they hire an expert, I don't think it can be fixed.
I am willing to live with the photo problem, because I really enjoy tribe. I don't like that the moderator situation affecting me personally is not being addressed, but even if that is never fixed, I'll still go on using and enjoying Tribe. Because I like it so much.
It's like having a favorite sweatshirt that is getting too old to wear out of the house, but one still goes on wearing it day after day. I use Tribe everyday, but I'm not suggesting it to brand new people anymore. It has too many problems. I'd be ashamed to suggest it.
For now I'm going to keep paying. I have been debating canceling premium membership though. I feel I should stop paying as I don't even get the courtesy of having my help email answered, much less handled. But I've become used to not having ads on the screen and the faster speed because of it. So I'll keep paying month by month. The other reason I don't want to stop paying is that I worry that if I change my premium status it could trigger some bug I'm not aware of (there seems to be so many now) and that I might loose something more critical than $5 a month.
And for any of you thinking that a lawsuit is a good idea. Well, if Tribe gets sued, I think that will be the sure death of Tribe. They don't have the money for lawyers and to keep Tribe running, too. They'd just abandon Tribe after the lawyer's fees, settlement or no. Is that what you all want? I don't think so. -
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 1:34 AMWell put, ChristieV. I'll wear this sweatshirt until my sweat wears gaping holes in the armpits, and even then. I have true love wrapped up in this godawful thing. -
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 6:01 AMIs there really a way to find out if tribe is using the money incorrectly?? -
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 7:20 AMOnly the IRS could really find out for sure. It is amazing how nearly every promised made and is published in the Gold Star tribe and in Brainstorm about the new services that would be offered have NOT happened. Non of the time line has been met, with the acception fo a few basic changes the reall reasons why I signed up for a premium membership in the first place has yet to take place. YAY now people can chat if you have a gold star on tribe chat. YAY for that. YAY you have a gold star. YAY you don't have ads.
I hate cutting and pasting links to state a case, but what happened to ALL of the other new features? What happened to that? A dedicated server? Killfiles? New Features? Constant communication? It was good when it generated new income from subscriptions, but now it seems to matter very little.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: Effects of Tribe?
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 4:13 PM"Is there really a way to find out if tribe is using the money incorrectly?? "
_________
Yes, it is called "discovery" and is a process by which one can obtain written answers to interrogaties, answers to requests for admissions, documents and oral testimony and certain types of mandatory disclosures in the course of a lawsuit.
Of course, how do you know if you have a case that warrants being filed as a lawsuit until you get that info?
Spies!
We need some spies, or investigators.
I'd say put TRUE on it. She's a hell of an investigator.
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Re: Effects of Tribe?
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 5:49 AMOK, so it looks like the main effect Tribe is having these days is to piss people off.
I really think at this point to save the place they either need to become a full-fledge porn site, which will drive off people like me, or sell the place to someone who will do something with it. But that might bring another crackdown like the one with the last bunch of owners, and drive off a lot of other people.
There was probably a clause in the deal with Cisco prohibiting sale of the place for a specified time. When the anniversary hits maybe something will happen. Although I do have to ask, who would want it?
