any desert permaculturists?

topic posted Sun, July 19, 2009 - 9:36 AM by  Unsubscribed
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I'm interested in applying permaculture practices back in my home bioregion of the Rio Grande Valley, New Mexico. I'd like to help implement the use of water catchment around the area, and use it to grow native useful food-plants like mesquite, yucca, pinon, juniper, along with staples like corn, beans, and squash. Anyone here in the area who would like to help? I've heard of a group of permies in Cerrillos called the Ampersand Project, and I will be contacting them also, but thought I'd check if anyone here is already doing permaculture work in this type of environment.

Thanks
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  • Re: any desert permaculturists?

    Sun, July 19, 2009 - 10:49 AM
    Hi B

    I have interest (not experience) in high desert permaculture. Perhaps I can learn something here too. I am curious what ag zone you are in. My place is zone 7...

    Also curious about the roof water catchment legality too, this has become a focus of mine lately.

    My Mother in Law lives in Jaroso, she does not consciously apply permaculture techniques, but she does live rustically and close to the Earth. I have not visited her there, but I would like to...
    • Re: any desert permaculturists?

      Sun, July 19, 2009 - 10:51 AM
      I don't live in the desert anymore but I did spend 3 years in Santa Fe. I had a lot of friends on the pueblos. I think you may want to look into their farming techniques. They manage to raise lovely crops in some very harsh conditions.
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        Re: any desert permaculturists?

        Sun, July 19, 2009 - 2:25 PM
        Make water catchment illegal?? Holy cow, what possible justification could they come up with for that? No, I didn't hear about that. I was actually hoping to convince the cities to implement water catchment and wildfoods as part of the public landscaping, rather than useless grass or flowers as a way to help people survive in hard times. If this is true, it would be sorely disappointing.

        I'm not in New Mexico right now, FaF (I actually live close to where I suspect you live), but apparently the Ag ranges from 6-8 depending on where we settle. I'm from Albuquerque though, and will be returning to somewhere near there next year, hopefully to stay. It's a little scary how I keep hearing people predicting that the SW will become uninhabitable in the not-too-distant future, with water becoming increasingly scarce. But it's my homeland, and where my family live, so I'm determined to make a go of it.

        Helping to increase sustainability of life in the region is a big part of what I hope to do there with my studies and my future work. Like you suggested yadda, I plan to learn a lot from the ways of the pueblo people.
        • Re: any desert permaculturists?

          Sun, July 19, 2009 - 5:47 PM
          I lived in Silver City NM.There has been water in the Mogollons even in the driest of conditions, especially in the Mimbres Vally. Mimbres is Spanish for Willow, and yes there are ample of those water hungry trees in the valley. The pre - pueblo, Mimbres grew mainstays of corn, beans, and squash, all in the same 24" circle, the squash of course extended well past that root ball.
          The legality issue to catchment has some merit. You are not allowed to restrict, capture or alter the flow of water anywhere in the west. you only have water rights to the water IN ( or under ) your ground. And that is " IF" you hold the water rights to the property, and you probably won't . mining companies bought up those rights loooong ago.
          How much water goes where, down stream is very closly monitered, and controlled. If you catch it befor it soakes into the ground, you are keeping it from going where it should be going down stream. The same concept applies to wells. Getting a permit to drop, or extend a well is a big deal. and in time of shortage, the last wells to have been sunk, are the first to be shut down. Even if it is the only source for you and your family. The water cops come out and literally chain and lock down your well. and like many in NM you start hauling water. and that water you haul of course came from the very place you would have gotten your own well water in the first place !! Is that nuts or what ? States have been trying to up date the old water laws for years, and they still fight over them.
          Of course there is the view that you are only interrupting the flow, and not stopping it. When you water your crops, you put it back int the aquifer system, same with treating waste water and releasing it.
          When I was there ABQ. was considering catchment, but decided the long legal battle with other NM towns, TX, and Old Mex. wasn't worth it.
          Face it , there are just too many people living in the SW. for what the water table will support.
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            Re: any desert permaculturists?

            Mon, July 20, 2009 - 7:49 AM
            It's true that to achieve sustainability many in the SW would have to leave. It's crazy to me how such big cities with swimming pools and fountains and golf courses have sprung up in the middle of hot dry desert.. some of them seem so ill adapted to the climate they seem unreal, like mirages.

            I did some reading on water catchment in the state, and it's not illegal. In fact, in Santa Fe, all new buildings are required to include water catchment systems, and there are at least two landscaping companies that install water catchment. Also in Santa Fe, there is a Permaculture Credit Union! They do business by an ethical code, and give loans to support permaculture design projects in the community.

            I can see the problem with catching rainwater if it is being done on a large scale, and not re-entering the ground, but there shouldn't be any issue with home-owners catching the water that falls on their roof and using it to water their garden. Especially in a city, where most of the rainwater that falls ends up in the sewer and gets carried away from the area. I think the state gets involved it's more often because they want to charge you for your water than that they're concerned you're disrupting natural flow patterns.
            • Re: any desert permaculturists?

              Mon, July 20, 2009 - 8:24 AM
              Water cachement is fabulous for watering the veggies. But you'd be amazed just how much water goes to waste from washing the clothes. Using greywater to flush the toilet made an enormous difference in our water consumption. I wish I were handy enough to create a system for it, but a couple of big pickle buckets from Dairy Queen will hold the water from a load of wash. I keep a full bucket in the bathroom and just dump it in. If just a small fraction of the population stopped using clean water to flush, well, can you imagine the difference?
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                Re: any desert permaculturists?

                Mon, July 20, 2009 - 7:46 PM
                It's such a wasteful system to flush whole gallons of water for every little tinkle someone makes.. but industrial uses of water far overshadow the waste of individuals and their toilets or showers
                • Re: any desert permaculturists?

                  Mon, July 20, 2009 - 8:22 PM
                  If it's yellow, let it mellow? hahaha

                  I know industrial use of water makes mine look like a drop in the bucket. I still feel responsible for what I do, or don't do. I do my best to reject consumerism by avoiding purchasing things new when I can find one used. I have no new furniture. I shop on Craigslist and freecycle with the occasional ebay purchase. I buy in bulk, taking my own reuseable bags to the store or market.

                  There's always a bigger project that would make a bigger difference. But I try to stay focused on what I can change about my own behavior.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
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                    Re: any desert permaculturists?

                    Tue, July 21, 2009 - 6:00 AM
                    Yeah me too, sorry to imply personal changes are useless. Collectively they do make a difference, and we can at least take responsibility for our own sphere of influence. There was a lengthy discussion about this very topic in the radical politics tribe recently.

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