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aloha all. writing to hear of experience with different chippers out there. i found a used bearcat 70380 for 2000 (usually 3600)...
however 2000 is still a lot when i can go pick up truckloads of decent already ground mulch, i just want the ability to do it on site.
just curious to hear about your experiences with turning available small trees into mulch.
however 2000 is still a lot when i can go pick up truckloads of decent already ground mulch, i just want the ability to do it on site.
just curious to hear about your experiences with turning available small trees into mulch.
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Tue, July 10, 2007 - 2:44 PMThe small chippers suck, I tried several models when I live in a place where there was something to chip. the small units were useless The small units were ok for very small branches (under 1 inch) after that they were very slow. I figured out that 1/3 what ever the capacity of the machine was rated for was about as much as it could handle . Also these machines required constant maintaince as the violent vibrations would shake the daylights out of them. The chipper blades need to be sharpened frequently. I wound up borrowing a Vermeer chipper from a logger friend and found out big is better, it is like the ones you see the comercial arborist crew using on the side of the road. amazing machines, I chipped as much material in 2 hours as I could do with 10 hp unit in a week. You can rent a vermeer 925 for about $150. a day
and you can chip a whole bunch of material in a day, this beast has a 70 hp motor and will suck in 4" branches at a terriffing rate. Plus with the rental you get the insurance and if it breaks, take it back and get a new one (do take the insurance) -
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Tue, July 10, 2007 - 10:05 PMI concur, c. We rented one when we had some freshly cut trees. they worked, but better for the green stuff than dried. Also, if you can find a lumber mill around, they may have some that you can pick up for a very small fee, if it's just a garbage can full. The one by us lets us have it for free, provided he doesn't have to use any machinery to get it to us. -
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Wed, July 11, 2007 - 3:18 AMIt takes a lot of power and energy to chip wood. Cheap shredders aren't even that cheap, but are too wimpy to get much done. Sometimes just piling brush up and letting it rot slowly provides some cover for birds and small animals. If your goal is getting the chips and not getting rid of brush piles, and you can get loads of it delivered, that is the option i'd take. -
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Wed, July 11, 2007 - 8:55 AMI'm with you there... how much petroleum are you going to burn? Is this a balanced trade off?
Does anyone know much about design, engineering, or building human-powered chippers? Maybe geared to a stationary bicycle... Good small pieces speed up the decomposition and mycoremediation... turns mother nature's mulch into human's compost!
Although with speed comes less critter habitat as wil pointed out... -
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Wed, July 11, 2007 - 12:04 PMtheres a brush pile on high way 101 near my home thats been there for nearly 40 years... eventualy they will have to burn it... cuase its not rotting... -
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Wed, July 11, 2007 - 6:14 PMI'd say you can probly modify a pencil sharpener to do the job by hand crank, but it's gonna be slow work.
It's gonna matter a whole lot what sort of ecosystem you live in as to how fast a brush pile will last and what kind of critters will move in until it rots. Also the type of wood makes a huge difference. A pile of black locust tops will last for many years here, in a very humid environment, while pine slash rots in a few years. -
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Thu, July 12, 2007 - 8:29 PM"just curious to hear about your experiences with turning available small trees into mulch."
Yeah seems bark is a big rot inhibitor. It's gotta be broken down first I'm learning...
While reading through Albert Howard's Agricultural Testiment just now, I realized that a lot of the work can be done with human, vehicle, and livestock traffic.
I've started doing this with grasses at my garden, using them for path mulch and eventually they will form the carbon constituent of my compost. Small twigs and sticks could probably be treated in a similar fashion, to an extent...
I love your idea about the pencil sharpener! My brother is a metalworker and a bike geek; I think I can get him to help me design and build something based around bicycle gearing that could be worked up to speed and held there with a heavy flywheel. Has anyone seen any designs like this, or know where I can get some basics about the inner workings of gas-fired chippers? If I could use a standard framework with interchangeable mechanisms, then this would solve the problem of classifying materials and mixing as well...
Also I thought I would mention, someone pointed out to me a frenchman by the name of Jean Pail (I think). He uses his compost pile to generate hot water for domestic purposes, and collects the methane from the anaerobic part of the cycle, to use as fuel. Could you power a chipper with methane? The compost pile then produces the energy needed to prepare the components of itself... quite a tidy little system of conservation of biomass and energy ;-}
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Wed, July 11, 2007 - 3:14 PM<Does anyone know much about design, engineering, or building human-powered chippers? Maybe geared to a stationary bicycle... Good small pieces speed up the decomposition and mycoremediation... turns mother nature's mulch into human's compost! >
I will not say it is impossible, but highly Improbable as the amount of energy needed is inhuman.....(HA)
you have to get a flywheel heavy enough to to carry a blade through fairly tough material with out slowing down. A large wheel set up so you are the rat in the cage could work if it were big enough and geared properly but would be stationary and then you have to haul your material twice, once to the machine and than away. Unless you can get Lance A. to power the machine I don't think pedel power would work , think of sticking a stick in the spining wheel of a bike. -
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Wed, April 15, 2009 - 12:14 PMI've been using an axe and a hatchet to chip dead wood this afternoon. It's slow work, but I sure won't need to go to the gym!...and I find chippers and shredders obnoxiously loud and smelly, not to mention the energy. If I get tendonitis, I may reconsider, but so far a little work each day yields a pretty good sized bag of chip mulch.
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Fri, April 17, 2009 - 6:21 AMMan, stop smoking whatever you are on.
"bicycle powered", get serious.
A human just doesn't have the grunt to power a chipper, even if it is thin leafy stuff from small bushes.
The appropriate use of a human is a pair of long handled loppers and cutting it up in the wheel barrow. BTDT. -
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Sat, April 18, 2009 - 9:03 AMI understand your perspective but your approach to communicating it seems piss-poor to me. Are you trying to insult someone? Ah that's why you have one friend...
"Tree mulch s no good for any edible mushrooms that I know off. The commercial safe mushrooms are grown on chicken shit from a bed of straw that is innoculated by mushroom spore, which is basically what you are going to have to do if you want measurable crop."
Well then, where to start... just because you don't "know off" any edible mushrooms that will grow on tree mulch doesn't mean they don't exist. Measurable crop? Aren't we in the Permaculture tribe here? Figuring out ways to diversify energy pathways in our gardens and homesteads? Who said anything about measurable mushroom crops? Enough for a seasonal handful or three out of your mulch basin sounds pretty good to me, considering all the other creatures and plants that such a practice will encourage.
So I'm going to go right back to smoking whatever I'm on, Bearterrible. You just go on with your bad self and see how many people you can piss off or insult. I hope that works out for you. -
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Sat, April 18, 2009 - 9:10 AMPleurotus ostreatus (oyster mushroom)
Lentinulla edodes (shiitake mushroom)
Ganoderma lucidum (reishi/lingzhi mushroom)
Volvariella volvacea (rice straw mushroom)
Stropharia rugosoannulata (wine-cap stropharia mushroom)
And there are many more mushrooms which are commercially cultivated on wood debris and non-manure farm waste like rice straw.
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Wed, July 11, 2007 - 1:45 AM"however 2000 is still a lot when i can go pick up truckloads of decent already ground mulch, i just want the ability to do it on site. "
not only that its just more easy to be apathetic if you dont have one and just let things o to waste... with myclium inoculant chipped wood, a nd limbs can be turned in to compost as well as food, or medicine... with out you just have fire wood, and most people preffer nto to use say the trimmins off their apple trees after pruneing for that... they just have a brush fire... ask or food and medicine....
here you go go get a alone buy your self a good one... start your self a little busniess to pay it off... you dont even have to work and run it you can get volunteers to do it make a non profit, or you can make it for profit and hire peopel to do it to pay it off as well as put some local green economy on the line... either way... you havea chipper as well as a whoel sale line of medicinal and gormet mushroom spawn say from fungi perrfecti and then you adverrtise that you will not only prune some trees or clean up wood yard waste but you will spread a mushroom myclium spawn in there which will as long as its fed by you next year and the year after that with new wood chips, continue to bear the fruit of the land owners choiceof medicinal or gormet or both mushrooms every year... or if they like until the soil is good enough to just beging growing soemthign else there... and viola! you have your self a top of the line chipper and your heling the local ecosystems as well as the local economy, and your human person community as well as perrhaps lineing your pockets once the initial investment is paid off...
a very whole systems approach to obtaining a top of the line chipper...
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Thu, July 12, 2007 - 8:57 PMWe found a hand crank, human powered, machine called a roto crop at an antique store for $15. It works for branches no bigger than an inch, grasses and green anything. Then compost away.
Great for urban shredding.
I have my eyes out for a commercial cardboard shredder. if anyone has any leads... -
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Tue, July 17, 2007 - 11:11 AMthanks guys
going to investigate
whats rentable and keep my eyes out for used sales.
won't go under 10 hp.
make sure i know the cost/feasibility of sharpening blades.
and investigate mulch as growing media for mushrooms
u might hear from me again...
aloha -
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Tue, July 17, 2007 - 1:42 PMEdible gourmet and medicinal saprophytes are a great way to start the process of breaking down your woody debris into compost! Check out the "drain out back" or "drain to mulch basin" technique of dealing with greywater too, maybe you can channel moisture into fungus beds where it can be dealt with by the amazing mycoremediation process! We're doing this kind of thing with ferns and hostas and oregon grape and raspberries on burms around the sunken fungus beds. It's a nice lush cool place right now compared to the baking hot of some other spots in the garden ;-}
I like the hand crank idea, I'm hoping to scale up to maybe 2-3" max debris and using a stationary bicycle (or two? a common shaft might work...) with 3-speed front deraileur and just a rear tensioner for the driven end.
The shaving off of small pieces seems more applicable to me than the coarse chopping you get with larger chippers, since I'm trying to compost hot and fast with the debris.... does anyone know much about grinder mechanisms, different types and what they're effective on, and how to sharpen?
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Tue, July 17, 2007 - 2:37 PM<The shaving off of small pieces seems more applicable to me than the coarse chopping you get with larger chippers>
You could be onto something with this Idea. Are you thinking of multiple blades on a large flywheel? -
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Tue, July 17, 2007 - 3:52 PMI also thought of a large pencil sharpener, machining would be a bit on the expensive side but it would solve the problem of cutting against the grain and using a shaving motion. -
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Wed, July 18, 2007 - 8:36 AMYeah I was thinking the cyclists turn the shaft with the flywheel(s?) on it, which wormgears to a pencil sharpener style grinder or something. I want to be able to use the same apparatus to turn a barrel for mixing tasks and for classification tasks, so if I need to mix cement, harvest rockfruit, or sift finished compost then I can do it with a quick barrel change or something.
I wonder if the pencil sharpener design would hold up well to leaves and grass... sticks are a no-brainer ;-}
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Wed, July 25, 2007 - 9:33 PMTry www.harborfreight.com. They carry *electric* chipper/shredders that can handle up to 1" branches. Anything larger you can build something cool with, or use for heat. You probably don't need much heat where you live, but maybe for cooking? If you are on solar, you would be chipping more cleanly.
This would work best if your cleanup projects are small ones, prune to shred in one day. If you have accumulated a big pile (as I have done) renting a chipper is the best bet. The Vermeer as mentioned in a different post measures up to just about anything you put into it. Ownership does bring the headaches of maintaining the infernal combustion engine, knives, tires, etc.
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Mon, August 27, 2007 - 8:55 AMhow about innoculating with mushrooms? -
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Wed, April 15, 2009 - 6:55 PMI also saw a low tech device that was basically a wood bench or saw horse with some pruning shears attached to the end through a single blade by tapping with screws inset. To give more leverage and force to the movable blade, a piece of pipe had been put over the handle and bolted on. Prunings and clippings were slid along with one hand and the blade operated with the other. Looked simple and good for light prunings and probably branches to about 1" diameter. Wouldn't want a finger to get in there if I or a child was careless though. Also wouldn't want it if I had a lot to process as it would be time consuming. My spring prunning from my orchard of 16 trees normally goes to a green waste drop-off site so I don't have to deal with the cost and storage of a chipper.
Wil's idea of getting the stuff delivered is good also if you need large quantities for paths and such. I prefer fairly coarse material for paths since it takes longer to break down and I am in the mud again. Check with your local landfill to see if they have processed green waste. The one we have in town has a green waste facility where I buy wood chips and compost. The compost can be more expensive, but the shredded sticks and branches are a nominal charge. Last year was the first time I ended up with some compost from them that had a problem. Lot's of weeds. Admittedly it was early in the season so probably hadn't heated enough in formation to sterilize the compost. Might be better to apply latter in the season. Wood chips should not have that problem.
Another possible source would be a pallet company. Often when wood pallets break they shred them. Make sure it is nail-free if you go the pallet route. Our green waste facility also has chips from shredded pallets, and they are very cheap.
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Fri, April 17, 2009 - 6:28 AMIf you are serious, then you get the biggest one you can afford.
Unless you are a commercial tree lopper, then you will not get the big ones draggfed about by trucks. hint, over here, all commercial tree loppers only mulch what they can as they sell everything else as fire wood.
Tree mulch s no good for any edible mushrooms that I know off. The commercial safe mushrooms are grown on chicken shit from a bed of straw that is innoculated by mushroom spore, which is basically what you are going to have to do if you want measurable crop. BTW, the chicken shit is actually processed as "Dynamic Lifter".
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Re: chippers shredders grinders mulch makers
Thu, May 28, 2009 - 2:49 PMoysters will
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