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Integral spirituality is a spirituality that puts it all together, isn't it? It is a spirituality that embraces the esentials or those things necessary for completeness and wholeness in spirit, is it not? So, perhaps I am missing something, because the teachers that everyone thinks are so fabulously enlightened embrace one approach and teach in accordance to that one philosophy, for the most part. Would it not be more "integral" to find someone who embraces all of the philosophies and spiritual practices, or none of them, to be the Spiritual Teacher of Integral Spirituality? The Master of Spirituality? One who does not subscribe to any one but embraces the whole, utilizing those teachings that best serve at any moment for the highest good of all?
Just thought I would ask, Sharon
Just thought I would ask, Sharon
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Re: Mastering being human!
Wed, May 31, 2006 - 5:33 AMI can't relate to the Ken Wilbur material at all. It seems toxic to me. Way over intellectual, i just don't get the utility (!) Like he's developed a new and comprehensive theory of food and is presenting it to starving people. To me, it seems like smoke and mirrors to avoid practicing the golden rule, because that practice is too simple and simply too difficult. -
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Integral Spirituality
Wed, May 31, 2006 - 4:51 PMFrom what I understand of the definition of Integral Spirituality and Ken Wilber's work, the "integral" aspect is finding the commonalities in everything--identifying the core elements. In regards to spirituality, there are so many different religions that claim to be the "one way", the answer. But by examining them and finding what's similar in each tradition, we could start a dialog to realize that we're not so different after all. There are certain basic elements that show up in most traditions (e.g., a creation myth, duality/balancing of opposites/male/female, ritual, sacrifice, etc.). Through Ken Wilber's work, we have a model and language for discussing these similarities intelligently and are able to really understand the problems and solutions better through a common language. -
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Re: Integral Spirituality
Wed, May 31, 2006 - 5:56 PMI say just go to the getting place where those religions came from and get a new one if one feels the need for a religion. It's primarily real, not primarily traditional.
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Re: Integral Spirituality
Thu, June 1, 2006 - 4:18 PM"there are so many different religions that claim to be the "one way", the answer. But by examining them and finding what's similar in each tradition, we could start a dialog to realize that we're not so different after all. There are certain basic elements that show up in most traditions (e.g., a creation myth, duality/balancing of opposites/male/female, ritual, sacrifice, etc.)."
"I say just go to the getting place where those religions came from and get a new one if one feels the need for a religion."
It seems to me that the common thread is what rises above as common truth. And that it doesn't need to be in the form of a religion or spiritual belief. It seems very simply a way of seeing how the universe works, and how to move with it for our best benefit. I also feel that not only by finding the common element between religions/spiritual perspectives, but by bringing them all together as a whole, that we might better perceive "reality" as a whole. Maybe each of us has only a piece of the picture, and that by putting together all images and perspectives, we can see what truly is.
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Re: Integral Spirituality
Thu, June 1, 2006 - 5:57 PMI see it as a DIY livewire plug in sort of thing. A happening, evolving pheonomena ( phenomena as a verb ) So instead of going to old religions as a source, i'm saying we should go to the source they went to. Get current. -
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Re: Integral Spirituality
Fri, June 2, 2006 - 4:40 AMSo, feeling closeminded abouit the ken wilbur thing, i listen to some of his audio material that i have....................................Literally made me sick. I've gone from passive indifference to indigo rage ( which i though i was way over) He has clearly made things more complicated than they are to further his academic careeer. Pretty much nothing makes me madder. Fuck him. -
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Re: Integral Spirituality
Fri, June 2, 2006 - 10:10 AM"So, feeling closeminded abouit the ken wilbur thing, i listen to some of his audio material that i have....................................Literally made me sick. I've gone from passive indifference to indigo rage ( which i though i was way over) He has clearly made things more complicated than they are to further his academic careeer. Pretty much nothing makes me madder. Fuck him."
Not that I am suggesting Ken Wilbur has anything to say... but in my humble opinion, if we are each mirrors for each other... then how is Ken a mirror for you that is bringing you to rage? It seems to me that if we are triggered by something, then there is something there we must look at. Some personal lesson.
As for Ken, I have not read his stuff, so I do not know what is triggering you. But I do find the idea interesting... of finding a middle ground between all perspectives. So perhaps we are speaking of the same thing?! Going to the source and all. ::smile:: -
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Re: Integral Spirituality
Fri, June 2, 2006 - 11:48 AMFinding the middle ground between outmoded perspectives i find to be really not a good idea. I'm sorry about the rage thing.
I'm not sure if it's a reflection of some part of me i won't accept or not. I got pretty pissed on first reading carlos casteneda too same way. This in the early 70's i guess. Still part of my nature i reckon. It's when i think somebody is taking the new age surge of energy in a direction i judge as wrong. In larger sense, i think of these as psychic infections or something like that, that wouldn't gain entry unless they were needed and will fix things as they run their course. I know it's judgemental as it can be. but very difficult for me to unsee it and not sure if i even can. Like carlos i think took a whole lot of energy in the direction of personal power, that i think could have better been put into collective power. I KNEW on the first page that it was fiction, a fact that came out much much later. Not a healing in the whole series,and gave rise to a whole genre of phony spiritual experience books that cheapened the real but less flashy experience that my friends were having themcellves. Just a lie for the sake of money and career. Wilbur not a lie, just a bunch of confused gobbldegook IMO. It leads nowhere that i can tell. The clothes have no emperor. What we are talking about is direct, experiential, and very much alive. I'd never know that from reading wilbur. Heavy sigh.
I just listened to some more of him. It's not that it's wrong..just that it's fluffed up . I listened to him talk about reincarnation, he backpedeled and said he personally thought it was possible then pressed in interview said he believed in it but that he was looking for the things that appealed to the broadest number of people to stress in his system..................man that is SO lame.
But i'm over rage completely now and contrite and sorry and this last i'd like to say and people who like carlos and wilbur should just consider me a cranky old geezer and let me go on my way. -
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Re: Integral Spirituality
Fri, June 2, 2006 - 1:20 PMHeck... no worries here on the rage thing. Doesn't bother me in the least! Which is something new for me. ::smile:: As for my beliefs, which don't have to be yours or anyone else's. But I find that every person in my life is a reflection of me in some way. That they show me a part of myself. So when I saw how this person triggered you, the first thing I thought was that this was part of your life lesson. That there was an opportunity for growth here. I feel that people show up to mirror certain beliefs, behaviors, etc to us so that we might better see ourselves. Certainly, what you believe will be your reality.
As for what he (Ken) says to be fluffed. I find that to be true in many perspectives. But what brings me happiness is that all of this is in the hands of the "common man" now! And that thrills me to no end that we as a society are finally opening ourselves to these realizations. Making me feel so much hope and light! No matter what the story/truth/etc... we will all have to sift through it to find what pertains to our own development and what doesn't. Ken may just not be the speaker for you.... but his words may help to enlighten another who speaks the same language as his. I think we all live subjective lives and realities based on our beliefs. But anyway... I could go on. Suffice to say... I am glad you are finding your truth in the ways that you are finding it. ::grin::
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Re: Integral Spirituality
Fri, June 2, 2006 - 1:23 PM"Finding the middle ground between outmoded perspectives i find to be really not a good idea."
I am sure there are many ways for each of us to get to the truth. I agree that creating a new paradigm of how we look at the truth as opposed to taking the old and unifying, may be an excellent way to do things. But we certainly won't know if it is better than others until we try all ways.
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