Saudis' secret agenda

LOL, deb there you go again trying to blame me for what is already in the Koran and Islam and common knowledge to all Muslims. You don't seem to know squat about Islam. From where I stand, is free to have his own opinion but according to Islam and the Koran this is not so - which I already stated so you're either not listening or you just don't really know a thing about Islam. What An-Na'im is claiming is laughable to other Muslims. But don't get me wrong, I hope he can convince every single Muslim of it because that is just what we need to re-form Islam. They need to accept a secular state because right now, Islam doesn't do that.

Deb "You efforts to raise awareness about the bad side of Islam are drowning out the moderate voices."

LOL,

"Kafir Dreams"
By Jamie Glazov
May 07, 2008

"Frontpage Interview’s guest today is Bill Warner, the director of the Center for the Study of Political Islam (CSPI) and spokesman for PoliticalIslam.com.

"Warner: “Moderate Muslim” is a perfect example of the muddle and incorrect terminology that kafirs (unbelievers) use. This term is intended to describe a Muslim who doesn’t seem dangerous or advocate violence. But “moderate Muslim” is a non-Muslim name, one that kafirs made up."

"FP: So tell us exactly what “kafir” means. We take it to mean unbeliever but I presume it is more complicated than that.

The ethical dualism means that Islam does not take part in the shared reciprocity of altruism. As an example, Islam is very big on charity, but Islamic charity only goes to Muslims. When Saudi Arabia sent money to New Orleans after hurricane Katrina, the money only went to Muslims, not to suffering kafirs.

FP: Can you expand a bit on reciprocity of altruism?

Warner: Reciprocity of altruism[1] is the very basis of civilization. Islam does not share this trait. This is one of the reasons that Islam is not a part, nor can it be, of kafir civilization. Islam is built on different ethics and logic than the kafirs. Islam’s dualistic ethics prohibit reciprocity of altruism. Islamic civilization and kafir civilization do not share similar values."

"FP: What are some other false kafir names?

Warner: Radical Muslim. Extremist Muslim. Reformed Islam.

What is a radical Muslim? A radical Muslim is capable of harming kafirs. A radical Muslim is a Medinan Muslim, but a Medinan Muslim follows Mohammed’s actions. So killing kafirs is not radical. Harming kafirs follows Mohammed’s example and is pure Islam, not a radical interpretation.

FP: So, overall, what is the real issue here?

Warner: Islam.

These false names used by kafirs are an attempt to humanize Islam. The kafirized naming tries to put the violence (radical, extremist) outside of Islam or suggest that violence is a bizarre interpretation of Islamic doctrine. But Mohammed was involved in a violent episode on the average of every six weeks for his last nine years. Again, Mohammed defines moderation, and the violence is integral to Islam."

"To reform the Koran, all of the hateful, cruel, and bigoted references to kafirs would have to be removed. If the kafir material is removed, then only 39% of the Koran remains. The greatest part of the part of the Koran, 61%, is devoted to negativity about kafirs.

The Sira (the life of Mohammed) has about 75% of its material devoted to jihad.

The Hadith has 20% of its material devoted to jihad. There is no one positive reference to kafirs.

If you delete 61% of the Koran, 75% of the Sira and 20% of the Hadith, you will have reformed Islam. You will also have destroyed it. There is a very good reason that Islam has never been reformed. It is impossible.

Is it so hard to believe that a political system with the name “submission” (that is what Islam means) is violent and can't be reformed? To submit is a demand of force."

"Islam cannot be reformed. Hence, the name reformed Islam is only a kafir dream."

"FP: So we need to start using the right names and terms.

Warner: Of course. The right names help to think right thoughts. Muddled names lead to muddled thoughts. If we are serious, we must start using the right names to describe Islam. Our terms must be based upon Islam, not kafir dreams.

If we want to refer to the more peaceful Muslims, call them Meccan Muslims. The jihadists are Medinan Muslims.

Wrong names include: moderate Muslim, extremist Muslim, good Muslim, radical Muslim.

Right names include: Meccan Muslim, Medinan Muslim, kafirized Muslim.

We must take control of the language. Incorrect names lead to incorrect thinking. We have to use the right names to defeat political Islam."

"FP: So what point of view is your argument and outlook based on?

Warner: All of this analysis is based upon a kafir-centric view. There are three ways to examine Islam—believer, kafir and dhimmi. The believer-centric view is the standard Islamic viewpoint. For the believer, the Koran is the perfect word of the only god of the universe and Mohammed is the prefect pattern for all human life and all times.

Kafir-centric analysis looks at Islam from the viewpoint of the kafir; how does this affect us?

Kafir-centric analysis is the view of the victim. As an example, in the Sira, Mohammed’s triumph over the Meccan polytheists is told as a wonderful victory. From the view of the kafir, it represents the annihilation of a tolerant society and the creation of the modern apartheid state of Arabia. As a result of Islam, the Arabs went from being a tolerant people to being the most bigoted and biased society on earth."

Please read the entire article:

frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx

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I say who gives a rat's ass what is in the Koran or the Bible or the Talmud or the books of Nostradamus or whatever:

It's what people are doing that counts & not what some ancient text says.

My objection to Islam is its total lack of central authority. There is no where to go to take a question about theology.
Does the Koran say that it's OK to rape murder defraud and enslave Westerners or does not not say that such conduct is OK~?
There are many different answers depending on which Koranic scholar you put the question to.
That is a problem.

>>>>>>>>>Gee, because you don't post endless nonsense about how evil Christianity, Judaism and Buddhism are?

Which, in my not so humble opinion are just as bad. Well, i'll give Buddist a break.