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Secession?

topic posted Tue, November 13, 2012 - 1:35 AM by  Erik
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posted by:
Erik
Alabama
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  • Re: Secession?

    Tue, November 13, 2012 - 1:42 AM
    Bye.
    • Re: Secession?

      Tue, November 13, 2012 - 1:57 AM
      Bye. That's all. Just bye.

      Perhaps it's not too surprising from someone who didn't even trouble himself to vote.
      • Re: Secession?

        Thu, November 15, 2012 - 2:30 AM
        I don't give a fuck about people who don't heed to their own advise when they tell others to leave the country when they don't like it. In fact instead of seceding, why don't you just pack your bags and leave instead of putting your hatred onto everybody else.
        • Re: Secession?

          Thu, November 15, 2012 - 2:52 AM
          It isn't hate, genius. Believe it or not, it's pity. All in this universe that can be seen, and some are obsessed with making everyone the same by giving them the same. My value is not determined by what I have.

          Why don't I leave?

          Because this country was created for people who think like me, so why don't you pack your bags and leave? North Korea should be very nice this time of year.
          • Re: Secession?

            Fri, November 16, 2012 - 10:06 PM
            >>>>>>>>>>It isn't hate, genius. Believe it or not, it's pity. All in this universe that can be seen, and some are obsessed with making everyone the same by giving them the same. My value is not determined by what I have.

            That's hatred.

            >>>>>>>>>>Because this country was created for people who think like me, so why don't you pack your bags and leave? North Korea should be very nice this time of year.

            No, this country was made for white men that owned slaves.
            • Re: Secession?

              Sat, November 17, 2012 - 12:59 AM
              No, that's not hatred, any more than it's homophobia. I reserve the right to decide if I hate anyone. And you can decide who you hate. Screw your ham-fisted attempts at thought control.

              Hatred. White men. Slaves. I'll say one thing for you. Your posts really make me miss watching Charles Grodin on television back in the 1990's. At least he was a propagandist whose vocabulary consisted of more than overworked media buzzwords. Then again, lately I even find myself missing that chump of a president he was constantly defending.
              • Re: Secession?

                Sat, November 17, 2012 - 3:10 AM
                I never cared much for Michael Jackson after he left the group, but I can think of two things to say for him.

                1) When it came to excuses for not growing up he had a rather good one.

                2) He built Neverland Ranch with his own damn money that he earned.

                And that is what this thread is about for Yours Truly. Money; who earned it, and who is getting it. Obama is building his own Neverland and using someone else's money to do it. It isn't religious with me. After he was elected I defended him on Wikianswers against charges of being the Antichrist on the grounds that he was not competent to be the Antichrist. My answer was later replaced by a better answer, but anyone with the patience can find my original answer. Er3Jen. [Don't believe it's me? Go to my profile and you'll see my name badge.]

                I'm so sick of liberals calling me names and accusing me of hating because I object to the useless trash that my tax money is spent on.
              • Re: Secession?

                Sat, November 17, 2012 - 4:07 AM
                >>>>>>>>>>>>No, that's not hatred, any more than it's homophobia. I reserve the right to decide if I hate anyone. And you can decide who you hate. Screw your ham-fisted attempts at thought control.

                It's hatred

                >>>>>>>>>>>>>Hatred. White men. Slaves. I'll say one thing for you. Your posts really make me miss watching Charles Grodin on television back in the 1990's. At least he was a propagandist whose vocabulary consisted of more than overworked media buzzwords. Then again, lately I even find myself missing that chump of a president he was constantly defending.

                What ever tickles your prostate. Your somebody who still doesn't quite get me, and everybody else here are quite familiar with what I think.
    • B
      B
      offline 124

      Re: Secession?

      Tue, November 13, 2012 - 6:29 AM
      "Bye"

      Hell Yeah. The remaining states would be much better off. These are the states that take the most in federal aid. Much more then they pay in Federal taxes. States like NY, NJ and California would thrive without that dead weight. And in the case of Miss. it's dead weight in more ways than one.

      Bye
      • Re: Secession?

        Tue, November 13, 2012 - 10:45 AM
        B, I hate to break our ignoring-each-other pact, but I'm confused. People in NY and NJ have signed a petition to secede, and they pay their share of Federal taxes. In the event of secession that would stop along with the US government aid. According to this article, actually the first one I found last night, more than thirty states have petitions.

        www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...10.html

        I haven't signed anything, yet, and my prediction at this point is is that Obama will scoff.
        • Re: Secession?

          Wed, November 14, 2012 - 10:57 AM
          www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...59.html

          Texas already has more signatures than needed. Perpaps this will get Obummer's attention. In four years nothing else seemed to be effective, as he obviously cares only about the agendas that are near and dear to him. Perhaps this will wake him up out of his liberal trance.

          And another thing. He got a full term. It's more than Lincoln got. He was in office for about a year before I started to grumble, and at least two years before I started to complain aloud. So let's not have any garbage about giving him a chance to do good for the middle class. He had his chance.
          • Re: Secession?

            Wed, November 14, 2012 - 11:48 AM
            << Perhaps this will wake him up out of his liberal trance. >>

            You should understand that Big O *is* a liberal in the exact same way Dubya was a conservative, Clintoon a moderate and Rmoney a roulette wheel. He's been one the whole of his political life and people customarily don't awake from "trances" that enduring!

            << He was in office for about a year before I started to grumble, and at least two years before I started to complain aloud >>

            That seems fair. Indeed, you held out longer than me.

            << So let's not have any garbage about giving him a chance to do good for the middle class >>

            Once Obamacare kicks in, he will have done quite a lot of good for the used-to-be middle class. That will chalk heavily in his and Democrats' favor.
            • Re: Secession?

              Thu, November 15, 2012 - 1:13 AM
              Thank, Rockstar..........although your reply makes me remember how truly ashamed I am for some of the things I said against Clintoon during the '92-'00 years.
              • Re: Secession?

                Fri, November 16, 2012 - 8:19 AM
                Well, Dollar Bill Clinton probably deserves less credit than he gets these days. Union Democrats (whose memories are much longer than most of the electorate's) in particular have little use for him.

                However, I'll agree that the reviling of Clinton went far out of hand. I mean, wingnuts detested Carter and Mondale too, but I never saw anything like that avalanche of paranoia directed at either of them. In retrospect, it was an early sign of the destablization we're witnessing now.

                The right-wing Mighty Wurlitzer media owns a huge share of both debacles.

                Yes, the anti-Dubya chorus was loud. Quite loud. I was part of it. The big difference is Bush II plainly earned his dishonors and at this point I don't know anyone other than a full-on blog zombie who'd would say different. Even the GOP ran away from him and they're still running.

                Nixon was a crook and batshit crazy to boot. The historical record proves he was unfit to hold office. By the end of LBJ's term, the entire world detested him, so one can't blame Republicans for that.

                Nothing since FDR beats the sheer intensity of spite directed at Obama, though.
          • Re: Secession?

            Wed, November 14, 2012 - 12:01 PM
            These signatures hardly represent a majority of citizens of states - only a tiny minority (even 28,000 signatures, for a place like Louisiana, with 4,575,00 citizens, is a tiny minority).

            I'm not sure what their reasons are (are you? If so, please enlighten me), but time and time again, it's been noted that states complaining most about federal expenditures are the states taking them in - from other states.

            Petitions have come from, for example, North and South Dakota, which, for every tax dollar they pay, receive $1.73 and $1.49 in federal benefits in return. Montana gets $1.58 in benefits for every $1 it pays.

            Where does the extra money come from?

            Well, for example, Washington, Oregon and California only receive 88 cents, 97 cents and 79 cents (respectively) for every tax dollar they pay.

            Louisiana gets $1.45 in federal funding for every $1 it pays in taxes.

            Alabama gets $1.71 for every $1 it puts in.

            South Carolina takes $1.38 for every dollar it pays in taxes.

            Missouri gets $1.29 for every dollar it pays in taxes.

            Meanwhile:
            Places like New York (getting only 79 cents on its tax dollar), Michigan (85 cents) and Colorado (79 cents), are funding the rest.

            Source:
            www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...ry.html

            I was raised in the South (if North Carolina counts as the South), and secession is still a very nuanced word for me. I frankly can't see how any of these states with 20,000 or 26,000 or whatever unverified signatures, from states with populations of 5,000,000 or 1,000,000, could have much beef with federal social policy - social policy, from gay rights to abortion, is largely left to states.

            But when 20,000 people in Alabama (00.4% of the population), ask to secede, I just wonder if they're aware that they're getting almost double their money in benefits for every dollar they pay in taxes, and that it comes from people in places like New York and Washington.
            • B
              B
              offline 124

              Re: Secession?

              Wed, November 14, 2012 - 2:16 PM
              Here's the thing.

              It doesn't matter what people say in a state. It's an almost free country with almost freedom of speech rights. (If you are in a free speech zone). What matters is what those pesky elected officials say and do. You know like that imbecile governor of Texas, remember him the one who wants to to leave the Union then has his hand out when something goes wrong in his state.

              But here is an option. Another group of people with free speech rights offering a suggestion. Yes Virginia everybody has something to offer.




              Strip the Citizenship from Everyone who Signed a Petition to Secede and Exile Them

              Mr. President, please sign an executive order such that each American citizen who signed a petition from any state to secede from the USA shall have their citizenship stripped and be peacefully deported.

              petitions.whitehouse.gov/petit...MjcwPf
              • Re: Secession?

                Thu, November 15, 2012 - 1:07 AM
                How sweet. And here I was expecting a charge of high treason and barbed wire accommodations for everyone who signs.

                Another reason why I haven't signed yet is because of the friends I've made in other states via the Internet. Will I lose their friendship if I become secesh?
            • Re: Secession?

              Thu, November 15, 2012 - 12:35 AM
              Enlighten you, JM? I can't promise to do that, but I'll try.

              I would imagine that for the majority of them their reasons closely approximate my own; high prices dictated by the high cost of oil, a listless economy and lack of growth industry, and tax money being wasted on foolishness. Sixteen trillion of dollars in debt, and Obama is ready to jack it up even higher. And twenty years ago it was a trifling three trillion. Inability to save, build, and plan for the future. Come on, you know. All those "personal problems" that I whined about in a previous thread. For some you can throw in the usual racial and religious reasons, and that Obama's citizenship is still in doubt, but for me and others it's primarily economic. We do not wish to live in a socialist country. And if the Department of Energy can't affect prices at the pumps, what exactly does the Department of Energy do, except waste more money?

              As to the numbers you quoted, excuse me, but did I just fall off the turnip truck? These are averages. I've never been on unemployment, and I was on disability for one week in the early part of '08. So for each $1 I paid for all those other weeks, where is my $1.71 in benefits? I did not get it, so who did? We don't really want to go there, do we? That's why I don't care for Barack. And that's why others do. There are a lot of children around here with no father in their life, assuming the mother even knows where the father is, and also assuming she knows who he is. These are the pimps, whores, and welfare brats, and when the brats grow up they're going to make more welfare brats, and our tax dollars will pay for them, but there I go trying to police someone's morals again.

              There's some good news, however. You can count yourself a Southerner if you're from North Carolina. My mom's family certainly did.
              • Re: Secession?

                Thu, November 15, 2012 - 2:35 AM
                Two forgot-to-mentions:

                1) The "imbecile" governor is urging loyalty to the Union, although he did say that he understands the frustration of the petition signers.

                2) Considering how much we depend on electricity, Texas is probably the state best able to adapt to being a sovereign nation (again).

                www.nytimes.com/2012/03/30...-a-bit.html

              • Re: Secession?

                Thu, November 15, 2012 - 3:26 PM
                Dear Erik,

                RE: "As to the numbers you quoted, excuse me, but did I just fall off the turnip truck? These are averages. I've never been on unemployment, and I was on disability for one week in the early part of '08. So for each $1 I paid for all those other weeks, where is my $1.71 in benefits?"

                You might want to ask your local legislature.
  • Re: Secession?

    Thu, November 15, 2012 - 6:56 AM
    Well, I think people fail to understand how democracy works..your guy is gonna lose sometimes. The majority of Americans voted for Obama..those that did not can either take their ball and go home like pissed of 10 year old boys, or they can man up and remember that the country is more important than any government.

    A nation of sore losers.
  • Re: Secession?

    Thu, November 15, 2012 - 12:08 PM
    Incredible. It is 147 years since thee end of the Civil War, and some people want to go through the same heartache and tragedy all over again.

    For the sake of argument, let's say Texas did it. What would be the result? All Federal institutions and Federal works projects and job programs would immediately end, throwing thousands out of work. Responding to the needs of these people would strain the Texas budget. Customs stations would have to be erected at all major highways, and Texas would be forced to print its own money. Bridges and highways would probably have toll boxes put on them to raise revenue which would cause the people to protest at the "socialist" nature of the action (gee, that sounds familiar).

    Meanwhile, the Mexican drug cartels would see the withdrawal of Federal forces along the border and launch a pre-emptive strike against the weak new state of Texas. The Texans would respond with bloody ferocity, but would quickly expend their ammunition and supplies in a matter of weeks. They would appeal for help from the Union, but would be told that the war was "an internal matter", and that once the break was made, it had to be complete. With no standing in the international community and no viable currency, Texas would be reduced to third-world status in less than a year. Thousands of refugees would begin making illegal crossings into the USA to escape the chaos.

    The fledgling nation of Texas would dissolve in less than two years. The survivors would stew in bitterness for decades afterward.
    • B
      B
      offline 124

      Re: Secession?

      Thu, November 15, 2012 - 5:11 PM
      "and Texas would be forced to print its own money"

      Correction here. I doubt that Texas would print it's own sovereign currency because that would take a whole lot of smarts and would do them a whole lot of good.

      I suspect that the Texas legislature is under the sway of all the banks and the FED as well and would adoptt the same policy that the U.S. Government has. Let the banks issue currency. Sure the U.S. Bureau of Engraving and Printing prints the money but the Federal government has relinquished the job of issuing the currency to private banks. And I would bet that Texas would do the same. And would soon live or die by what they could offer the banks.
      • Re: Secession?

        Thu, November 15, 2012 - 6:57 PM
        My thinking was that the Feds would not allow Texas to maintain the same currency. That would be like letting them have their cake and eat it, too! By forcing the Texans to print their own money it would hasten the Texas Nation's decline.

        Think the Feds wouldn't be that hardhearted? Think again!
        • B
          B
          offline 124

          Re: Secession?

          Fri, November 16, 2012 - 6:17 AM
          You're hung up on the face on the bill and not the mechanism for the flow of money.

          If Texas is sovereign then the U.S. government has no say on what currency is in use. That the thing two sovereign nations can't dictate to each other.

          If the Texas nation were to issue money then they would control their destiny and that would be a good thing. If the banks were to issue the money then the nation of Texas would be no better off than the U.S. or Europe.
    • Re: Secession?

      Thu, November 15, 2012 - 11:42 PM
      Less than two years? Not very optimistic. Texas was an independent republic for about ten years before joining the Union, although there were indeed security problems. Mexico never recognized Texan independence, and the Comanche were also a force to be reckoned with.
  • Re: Secession?

    Sun, November 18, 2012 - 5:52 PM
    nation.foxnews.com/2012-pre...icipation

    The last holdout, Vermont, now has a petition to secede. Someone may want to tell Barack. He probably still thinks he has eight more states which are on his side. Looks like the US wants to secede from itself, and wouldn't you hate to be Speaker of the House under those conditions?

    Vermonters are an independent lot apparently. They scored the first victory of the American Revolution, and all because the Crown would not recognize Vermont as a fourteenth colony, so instead they were admitted into the Union as a fourteenth state.

    As for me, I still haven't signed yet, but I'm keeping an eyeball on it until the last minute. By the time I heard about it Alabama probably had the 25,0000 signatures. And if I had remained in Florida it would have been the same. If the count rises to 999,999 total maybe I'll sign. I don't see Barack exiling a million people, unless of course he has found a way to exile us and still tax us.