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House Excludes Spiritual Care from Health Care Reform Bill
"The Secular Coalition for America is thrilled that the House of Representatives has decided to remove language found in all three draft bills that would require private and public plans to cover the spiritual care of individuals with religious objections to medical care.
Today the House released their version of the health care reform bill that did not include language requiring private and public health plans to cover spiritual care for any person. This "spiritual care" includes reimbursements for payments that Christian Scientists make to members of the Church who pray for them when they are ill.
"Requiring American taxpayers to reimburse Christian Scientists and other religious sects that deny themselves and their children necessary medical care would have been incredibly unethical in addition to a violation of church state separation," said Sean Faircloth, Executive Director of the Secular Coalition. "I am thrilled that the House of Representatives has chosen to remove language that would have required Americans to foot the bill for religion-based care. Their actions demonstrate that common sense secular values are being heard in the halls of Congress."
If this language had been included, tax payers would be forced to help foot the bill for this religion-based "care" -- "care" offering no scientific evidence of effectiveness. "Care" which, in fact, endangers lives by placing government approval on non-scientific practices."
www.secular.org/news/healt...091028.html
* Join the "Separation of church and state" tribe
separationofchurchstate.tribe.net
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"The Secular Coalition for America is thrilled that the House of Representatives has decided to remove language found in all three draft bills that would require private and public plans to cover the spiritual care of individuals with religious objections to medical care.
Today the House released their version of the health care reform bill that did not include language requiring private and public health plans to cover spiritual care for any person. This "spiritual care" includes reimbursements for payments that Christian Scientists make to members of the Church who pray for them when they are ill.
"Requiring American taxpayers to reimburse Christian Scientists and other religious sects that deny themselves and their children necessary medical care would have been incredibly unethical in addition to a violation of church state separation," said Sean Faircloth, Executive Director of the Secular Coalition. "I am thrilled that the House of Representatives has chosen to remove language that would have required Americans to foot the bill for religion-based care. Their actions demonstrate that common sense secular values are being heard in the halls of Congress."
If this language had been included, tax payers would be forced to help foot the bill for this religion-based "care" -- "care" offering no scientific evidence of effectiveness. "Care" which, in fact, endangers lives by placing government approval on non-scientific practices."
www.secular.org/news/healt...091028.html
* Join the "Separation of church and state" tribe
separationofchurchstate.tribe.net
;
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Re: House Excludes Spiritual Care from Health Care Reform Bill
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 10:17 AMGood call, as it would be un-Constitutional. Using public funds, that is. Or, promoting it in any way.
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Re: House Excludes Spiritual Care from Health Care Reform Bill
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 12:26 PMI once read the account of a former Christian Science practitioner: People with terminal cancer would be lying in one of their centers in terrible pain, and they would send someone in to pray over them. When the screaming got too loud, they just pumped loud music over the sound system, so as not to alarm the other patients.
I remember someone else who was a reader at a Christian Science church. He started to develop rheumatoid arthritis, a horrible disfiguring and crippling disease. So long as he could still hobble around with a cane, he continued to lecture, and the church was very supportive, but when he gave it up and sought medical attention, they threw him out.
The founder of this church made exceptions for herself:
None of this should be taken to suggest that Mary Baker Eddy never herself used the services of a physician - on the contrary, she did regularly, even while teaching others that all illness was simply a consequence of inadequate faith. She wore eyeglasses, used a dental plate, and relied on morphine for the last years of her life because of gallstones. Eddy had all of her grandchildren vaccinated and even paid for her sister-in-law to have a mastectomy. She rationalized this behavior by saying that the world simply hadn't yet advanced to the point where the human mind and the Divine mind could easily achieve the sort of union necessary to eliminate illness. Thus, at least for some, the illnesses were not a result of inadequate faith.
atheism.about.com/library/g...cience.htm
Mark Twain's book on Christian Science:
www.classicreader.com/book/1286/2/
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Re: House Excludes Spiritual Care from Health Care Reform Bill
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 5:42 PMWho in their right mind would have put it in there in the first place?
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Re: House Excludes Spiritual Care from Health Care Reform Bill
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 7:10 PM<Who in their right mind would have put it in there in the first place?>
interesting phraseology considering the context.
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Re: House Excludes Spiritual Care from Health Care Reform Bill
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 9:09 PMHow do you include "alternative" health care and exclude Christian Science? -
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Re: House Excludes Spiritual Care from Health Care Reform Bill
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 9:15 PMBy adding the words 'health care'.
I thought the Republicans didn't want 'death panels' isn't that what a bunch of people praying for you to get well really is? -
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Re: House Excludes Spiritual Care from Health Care Reform Bill
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 12:17 AMIt is one of those things like homeopathy, that work great, so long as you don't test them. There are no controlled studies. But there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that it works, so how would you prove that it doesn't? -
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Re: House Excludes Spiritual Care from Health Care Reform Bill
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 6:57 AM<<there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that it works>>
Sources please.
There is also plenty of evidence that the "spiritual care" does not work. And there are studies demonstrating prayer does not work too.
<<<Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
"In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for had a slightly higher rate of complications." >>>
www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/ -
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Re: House Excludes Spiritual Care from Health Care Reform Bill
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 7:04 AMI have benefited enormously from homeopathy. There's good homeopathy and bad homeopathy, just like allopathic medicine.
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Re: House Excludes Spiritual Care from Health Care Reform Bill
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 9:38 AM>>>>>>>>>There is also plenty of evidence that the "spiritual care" does not work. And there are studies demonstrating prayer does not work too.
I agree with Rocky on this one.
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pray tell
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 9:00 AM<It is one of those things like homeopathy, that work great, so long as you don't test them. There are no controlled studies. But there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that it works, so how would you prove that it doesn't?>
with medical conditions upon which the placebo effect has been shown to be effective, just about anything under the sun that workably instills a belief in a particular patient it will cure the illness could be a valid medicine or therapy and purely on the basis of results, in such instances, rituals or prayers tied to religous beliefs could be considered valid alternative remedies ... political and constitutional aspects aside.
ie - prayer 'can' have a valid place in the medicinal arts.
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Re: pray tell
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 3:31 PM>> prayer 'can' have a valid place in the medicinal arts.
I'm having trouble with the idea of allowing unproven "alternative" health care and disallowing prayer . . . I have a doctor who regularly prays over people, which may have a positive effect, even if only placebo. Who am I to say that he shouldn't be offering placebos?
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Re: House Excludes Spiritual Care from Health Care Reform Bill
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 3:27 PM>>Sources please.
I feel silly quoting this stuff, but the Christian Science really does have a thick file success stories they like to wave around:
Numerous instances of healing, in which so-called material disease does not follow its supposedly natural course after Christian Science treatment has been introduced to the case, help to make this more apparent. Malaria, typhoid fever, cancer, pulmonary tuberculosis, for example, have been arrested and healed in this way. Or when massive injuries to the body have been far more quickly overcome than was predicted, through entirely spiritual treatment—not in a single rare instance but in hundreds of cases—it leads thought to become more willing to explore the possibility that the impression of matter ruling and determining all is not accurate.
www.christianscience.com/blogs...-work/
>>Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients
Christian Scientists deny that their treatment is the same as ordinary prayer:
You don’t have to read much about Christian Science before you realize that when Christian Scientists speak of “treatment,” they are talking about a specific kind of prayer that heals. They are not just “hoping” prayer will bring a positive response from God but they are clearly expecting prayer, or treatment, to have a healing effect.
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Re: House Excludes Spiritual Care from Health Care Reform Bill
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 7:48 PMCount the dead people and divide by the ones that it cured. It it hits infinity then that's where it should go out to infinity and beyond. -
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Re: House Excludes Spiritual Care from Health Care Reform Bill
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 9:20 PM>>Count the dead people and divide by the ones that it cured.
Good idea, got a list? -
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Re: House Excludes Spiritual Care from Health Care Reform Bill
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 5:49 AMIf they can't publish their metrics them no money. -
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Re: House Excludes Spiritual Care from Health Care Reform Bill
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 11:01 AMThat's my point, we don't have evidence for the effectiveness of a lot of common therapies, including many reimbursed by the government. Chiropractic medicine would be a good example:
atheism.about.com/b/2007/11...f-time.htm
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Re: House Excludes Spiritual Care from Health Care Reform Bill
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 4:14 PMRepeal Faith Exemption, Place Humanity over Dogma
Statement by Annie Laurie Gaylor, Foundation Co-President
October 7, 2009
"The sentencing of the parents of 11-year-old Madeline “Kara” Neumann for their role in Kara's tragic death should galvanize our state legislature to ensure no other child will die needlessly in the name of dogma. Repeal the dangerous faith exemption shielding faith-healing parents from responsibility for the deaths of their children.
Unrepentant Dale and Leilani Neumann, of Weston, Wis., insist it would have been “disobedience to God” to seek medical evaluation for their acutely ill, diabetic daughter. It is fortunate the Marathon County District Attorney found an avenue to prosecute them for second-degree reckless homicide, but the exemption will be the basis for their appeal.
A simple repeal proposed by Wis. State Rep. Terese Berceau, D-Madison, (known as LRB2190), has stalled due to attacks by the Christian Science lobby. The lobby is promoting a sham repeal by Sen. Lena Taylor, D-Milwaukee that could result in Wisconsin adopting the worst law in the nation to shield parents.
Our state should not countenance child sacrifice as a so-called "accommodation" of parental religion. Prayers are no substitute for insulin. Kara could have been saved until the end, had her parents had the decency to take Kara to a doctor as she slipped into a coma after long, painful months of intense weight loss, sickness, and decline.
Place humanity over dogma. The only meaningful memorial to Kara Neumann is to repeal the faith exemption that killed her.
* The Freedom From Religion Foundation, based in Madison, Wis., is a national association of freethinkers (atheists, agnostics) that has been working since 1978 to keep church and state separate."
www.ffrf.org/news/2009/alneumannsent.php
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Re: House Excludes Spiritual Care from Health Care Reform Bill
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 7:49 PMAny attempt to separate spirit from body results in medical failure.
In the Wellness Center on the Mother Ship, we treat the whole person.
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Re: House Excludes Spiritual Care from Health Care Reform Bill
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 2:46 PMImagine how much money the politicians could squander on that?
Damn good thing they nixed it.