Monogamy vs Polyamory's topics - tribe.net

Everything is fine, but Sex!!

2008-07-26T01:03:39Z

"Be as close to him as you want, share everything, be affectionate have him in your life forever, but if there is sex involved we are over. It disgusts me and makes me sick to think of you with another man. "

Strange to me since all of the connections are there have such a great relationship with two men. But I am not able to give myself fully to both of them. Is it fair, is it possible? Whats the big freaking deal about sex anyway? Why is that the most horrible disgusting thing possible.... UG it's going to be a long road on this I'm Poly and He's not road....

{{sigh}}

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 6 replies

a-poly drama

2008-07-21T04:40:43Z

I woke up this morning, had my s.o. bitch me out-yelling & sobbing, about the fact that 2 yrs ago I slept with my ex wife. Then not too many moments later she tells me how turned on she got last night at this party when one of her daughter's girlfriends was shamelessly hot for me. She admitted the thought of another woman wanting me excited her-while we were making love!

Woman's prerogative?

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 2 replies

Interview with Author Jenny Block on Open Marriage / Polyamory

2008-06-12T20:26:46Z

Great interview with Jenny Block, who just wrote a book on open marriage/polyamory. Her actual website is: http://www.jennyonthepage.com/index.html

Three's Company: Jenny Block Q&A
(5/21/2008)

A former Richmond writer lets the world in on her (not so) dirty little secret

Jenny Block is a writer who didn’t have to look far for compelling material. Her new book, Open: Love, Sex and Life in an Open Marriage, chronicles her private struggle to find common ground between conventional marriage and her own, less conventional sexual identity.

After much emotional trial and error, Block and her husband agreed on an arrangement that kept them happily married: she would have a girlfriend. Though the real-life love story sometimes reads like a blend of Desperate Housewives, Sex and the City and The L Word, it becomes clear that all the risqué drama leads to domestic bliss.

Ultimately, the 37-year-old Block’s message is that marriage comes in all sizes and shapes. Hers just happens to be a triangle.

Q: At what point did you feel the need to write about your private life?
A: About three years ago, I started searching the Internet and bookstores trying to find some information for myself. I wasn’t finding what I was looking for, but I was finding a lot of people out in the cyber-universe who were having conversations about these relationships and searching the same way I was. There were a lot of negatives out there that didn’t seem to be based in any kind of fact. So, even though it was scary, it seemed like there was something to be gained by putting a sort of girl-next-door face on something that I think is very natural and normal and average.

Q: How did your husband and then-girlfriend feel about it?
A: They were really supportive, and that’s what pushed me over the edge. My husband is very shy and quiet and totally the opposite of me, so if he was supporting me in it, then I felt really good about it.

Q: How do you handle the situation with your daughter?
A: It’s such a non-issue, because at her age [9 years old], she doesn’t really know anything about sex, and she doesn’t have any understanding that a lot of people connect marriage with sex or that there’s this rule about loving only one person. In her life, she loves lots of people. So that makes sense to her. We’ve always had people over. Whatever “best friend” I’ve had at the time has always come and hung out. She wouldn’t know the difference between any person’s roles. I liken it to other people’s private sexual lives and the way they keep it private from their children.

Q: What did your parents think?
A: My dad is a rabbi, and he’s very liberal and open. We’ve always talked about everything, but not sex in particular. But I came to my dad with this the same way I go to him for everything. I went to him on an intellectual level and said, “I need to know what you think about non-monogamous relationships.” He said, “I think they’re much more natural and more people would like to have them.” So I knew I was in a good spot. And when I told him, he couldn’t be any more unfazed. My mom’s only reaction was, “Just make sure you’re all talking and communicating and that everyone is happy and on the same page.”

Q: What’s the trickiest part of focusing on two people in a relationship?
A: I guess it’s the same as any kind of juggling — two jobs, two things to write, two children. In some ways I feel like I’m a better partner because I’m a hypersensitive partner. I cannot be careless with either of them. There’s too much at stake. I thought one partner was more difficult. This just seems to make sense to me. I understand that not everybody gets that, and I appreciate that. I don’t think this is for everyone, and I’m not prescribing it for other people. Yes, it’s hard. Is it any harder than a monogamous relationship? I think all relationships between human beings are tough.

Q: Since you’ve decided to be exclusive with your girlfriend and your husband, do you think the term “open marriage” still applies?
A: I wish I knew. The language is one of the biggest problems. When I first started talking about this open marriage, people were like, “Oh, you’re swingers? You go to sex parties?” And I was like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa … OK, we are obviously not down with the lingo.” We’re not saying what we mean to be saying. Is it still appropriate? I don’t know. I use it for lack of a better word.

There was a book in the ’70s, called Open Marriage, by a couple, the O’Neills. Two pages in that book talk about sex. What they were [mostly] talking about was maintaining your individuality, being open and honest with each other. So I’d like to think we’re part of that “open marriage” movement.

There are people who have all these interesting permutations of who they have romantic love relationships with, who they have family partnering relationships with and who they have sexual relationships with … It’s people trying to figure out something that people have been trying to figure out since the dawn of time, which is how to live and be happy and navigate relationships and sex and love — all the hardest and best parts of life.

Q: Do you identify with the gay community?
A: One hundred percent. I hate all the boxes and identifying, but if you ask me, I say I’m bisexual. I wrote the book in a gay coffee shop. You know, the gay community figured this stuff out a long time ago. In some ways because gays and lesbians can’t get married, that community has made up their own rules. If you’re not “allowed” to do traditional marriage, then “What is this relationship? How do we define it? What does this mean?”

Q: Your arrangement seems to scare some people. What do you think they’re afraid of?
A: I think they’re afraid of a couple things. Remember when you were in elementary school and you would chew a piece of gum in class? That one girl who always sat in the front row would catch you, and she’d tell on you. I remember thinking, “Why do you have to tell on me? I wasn’t bothering you. I wasn’t bothering anybody.” It’s almost like, “If I have to follow the rules and be miserable, then so do you.” And that makes me really sad. I think some people are so indoctrinated with their religion or morality or whatever [that] if they let go of that for one split second, their entire universe would come tumbling down. I mean, imagine if I’m on to something. Imagine if I’m “right.” What would that mean? —Pete Humes

http://www.richmondmagazine.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=BEBEC0BA54214E1DA53ED1FA4D959622

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 1 reply

going from dysfunctional to functional

2008-06-03T02:45:08Z

firstly...despite my profile...I am not a troll..just an alt...for the sake of privacy....which will probably backfire somehow.....

lets see..my partner and I have been in a long-term relationship...and we are very suited for each other in many ways despite the fact that we have broken up twice during the course of our relationship for several months....and then, partner carried on a many-month affair behind my back.....Even though our relationship survived all this, it did have some damaging effects, and compromised a good deal of trust between us....It used to be that said partner would always jab at me about polygamy...and I just was not into it....There seemed to be double standards involved so that everything would sorta be good for partner, but bad for me....so with that in mind, in addition to basic insecurities...I just was not into it..... so the jabs about polygamy combined with partners flirtations with members of opposite sex, sorta contributed to a certain level of instability in our otherwise really great relationship.

Then recently, over the last few months, it had seemed as though partner was cheating on me again..thought partner insists that this has not been the case....even though parnter would (much to my dismay) sneak out of the house after I was asleep to go be with other people, without telling me, so that multiple times I would wake up to an empty bed....and partner still stays in constant contact with former lover....which makes me cranky, but I deal with it for the most part.....

Anywhoo...these recent stresses have made me decide that in order for our relationship to survive, there needs to be a certain level of flexibility...I don't want to have to freak out every time partner goes off on dalliances....but i also don't want to spend my life always the one sad at home while partner is off having fun....So it would seem only fair that I should have dalliances of my own....but I don't want to lie about them and keep them a secret.....I don't want to have threesomes....I seldom find other people attractive really, and i have a mental block against getting sexual with people I don't have some sorta mental connection to, since I am more attracted to people's minds than the packages they come in ususally..
....but recently there have been a couple of exceptions....One is just an idle crush on someone who most likely would never reciprocate.....and then, most recently an extremely rare drunken-but-cute flirtation from an old acquaintance with whom there has always been a sorta silly but unrequited mutual attraction.
On one hand, partner claims not to be jealous....on the other hand, I can tell that partner is jealous...on the third hand....I am not able to handle my attractions to these other people without a tremendous amout of guilt despite the circumstances......and i find myself flung into a chasm of existential turmoil over them....

To make a long story slightly shorter I have discussed with partner the prospects of our having a "functional" open relationship...but it such a thing possible?

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 3 replies

Introducing someone else to polyamory

2008-05-29T12:24:16Z

Hey Guys--I would just like some advice on how to introduce someone to polyamory and a potential third partner. I've met a guy--and we've both never been in a polyamorous relationship before--and we'd like to gauge his partner's his interest in a triad. They have been in a committed, monogamous relationship for several years. How do we broach this with him? How do we introduce him to me? Does anyone have experience with this? Any help would be very much appreciated!

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 12 replies

New York Magazine article questions monogamy

2008-05-22T04:33:23Z

The article questions the assumption that monogamy is viable for all but the weak, but the writer comes across as such a cold, insensitive jerk, he does more harm to the discussion than good. The most interesting aspect is the reader comments. It's really obvious that the writer--not necessarily the prospect of alternatives to monogamy--has negatively tainted the discussion. Even the polys who commented hated the article!

http://nymag.com/relationships/sex/47055/

SB

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 1 reply

Going from Poly to Mono?

2008-05-22T03:58:11Z

I never thought I'd ever find myself thinking this way. I've been living a poly lifestyle for about 4 years now and felt I'd discovered a way of life that I could live with long-term. I wasn't really looking for a primary partner so was involved as a secondary in my relationships.

BUT I've met someone who has turned my world upsidedown. Someone who makes me WANT to be mono with them and I'm wondering...am I nuts?

I'm not the type of person to "accomodate" lovers at my own detriment (which I can admit is something I used to do) simply for the sake of hanging onto a relationship - no, this is totally new for me... I am feeling a VERY real desire to focus my energies on one person and I'm wondering if anyone else has ever dealt with this kind of thing?

BTW, the person I want to be mono with has not given me any ultimatums about choosing between lovers, has stated a willingness to work with what I need in the relationship allowing it to just let it be what it will be so I'm not basing MY feelings here on any kind of outside pressure. In fact, the only outside pressure I'm feeling is a sense of obligation to maintain a sexual relationship as a secondary to a lover who is married when I am not "feeling" inclined to do so simply because I love him and don't want to hurt him. He and his son have come to be like family to me and I don't want to lose that part of the relationship with them. My new love interest has no problem with my maintaining this familial relationship with he and his son...it's his reaction to this change in me that has me concerned.

Any advice?

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 11 replies

is this something that women actually find desirable?

2008-05-19T04:53:28Z

or is this concept pretty much male territory? i'm liking the idea but the evidence seems to indicate that the majority of women in the us aren't looking to be sharing the guy they're intimate with. on the male side, how many men are really secure enough to share their woman with a guy who might strike a deeper chord with her? how are the rules created? what are the rules? i'm curious.

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 32 replies

Out of Ideas and Going Down Fast

2008-05-06T05:05:59Z

*sigh* alright, here's the deal. I'm generally one of the ones giving the advice, I'd hope well. This time though, I'm at the end of my rope. I don't know what to do to deal with this situation, and if I don't ask for some help soon there's the possibility I will handle things totally wrong.

Reading my profile and such, you get the impression that my wife and I are very open people. The fact is, this is only half... well let's call it 3/4 true.

I love my girl. I love her like the Sun come down from the sky. That said, there is a growing rift starting which unless I get it checked one way or the other is gonna do us in. I'll explain.

While I've got alot of history in sex-positivity, deviant behavior in general. It has historically been almost impossible for me to maintain a sheerly vanilla monogamous relationship. I think it's important to note (not trying to be egotistical) that if I set my mind to it, I am almost razor sharp at seduction. I spent 2 years as a pleasure slave, learning everything from how to do makeup on any ethnicity in the world to bringing a woman to orgasm with nothing but the muscles vibrating in my throat. (hard to explain, harder to teach. lol) I mention it's easy, because it being easy makes the entire situation harder.

Linz, while having her own wild side in her youth was more along the lines of your typical drug-induced deviant-high-school-sex kinda thing. To her, while she indulged me more than once, that was a phase she's done with. My first hot-button here is that due to that fact it's terribly difficult to deal with the fact that she can't share in what has been my lifestyle in one way or another for a loooong long time.

I'm starting to freak out, juuuust a little. I've toned myself down as much as I could. I've suppressed everything from my very certain bisexuality to my tenancy toward the Grey area that lies somewhere between polyamoury and swinging. This has been an issue between us for quite some time. In the beginning, Linz was down for the occasional playtime with a guy/girl/both kinda thing. Still, it came up quite a bit that I'm comfortable in quite a different zone relationship wise than we're currently at.

In the past, jabs were traded, but short of that no resolution was really reached. Time goes by, I keep quiet until I'm about to explode, I try and draw her out, it gets swept under the rug, repeat.

The reason this is more complex than a simple resolve-communicate-or-leave kind of scenario is that in every way... EVERY WAY other than this we're perfectly matched. No deviant encounter has ever led me to a girl I felt as well matched with.

Still, this is my life, this is my personality. I feel resentment growing as I continue to deny this part of my personality, this part of myself.

I've tried to discuss this with people before, most notably my best friend. She commenced to freak out on me due to a year-old threesome we'd all had, and we're now no longer friends.

Just pointing out, that so far all this situation has done for me is take. It's taking my sanity bit by bit. I'm getting a shorter and shorter fuze about the subject, and it's even cost me one of the most important relationships in my life.

In the past, I would just start cheating. You can judge me all you like for that. To me, it's a matter of getting by. However, as you can probably imagine that leads to eventual discovery and disaster. I've been down this road a few times with significant others. Cheating or no, this will eventually overwhelm us.

I just don't know what to do, or to say, to anyone. I could continue the way I am and wait until it's too much and I wrap myself around someone who gets the one part of me my partner doesn't. I could put my foot down and what will likely happen is she will aquiese, at least occasionally, just for my sake, for awhile. Neither of those options are really acceptable to me, but for the life of me I can't find a third.

So I put it to you, perfect strangers. My friends have failed me. My almost macchiavellian ability to agument any relationship with it's missing parts elsewhere is just not good enough for me anymore.

I'm lost. No solution in the past will work here, and I'm fresh out of ideas. I'm frustrated to the point of rage, and feel the time coming where I will sabotage anything just to save something. If linz is part of that everything I may as well fall on my sword right now.

It's maddening, to match someone so perfectly in all but one way.

Especially when it's this.

PS: I'm cross posting this like mad, so you may see it again. I need an idea, an answer. Hope for my situation. Otherwise, I'm not exactly sure I won't become ground zero, and everyone left in my life become casualties.

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 11 replies

New Mexico Polyamory Gathering and Seminar

2008-05-02T00:11:35Z

Loving More Loving Choices A Relationship Seminar
Presented by
Loving More Non-profit Organization
303-543-7540
Saturday May 10, 2008
Santa Fe , New Mexico
Holiday Inn
8:00am-6:00pm
Deadline for Early Registration, May 1, is almost here.

Loving More, the host of the longest running polyamory conferences, is
pleased to announce a new one day Seminar Series Loving Choices focused
on choosing what is right for you. Loving More brings over 22 years of
experience in teaching skills of alternative relating. Who says that
love has to follow a specific set of rules that limit how you love
others? Why pretend to be someone your not? Do you feel like you
can't be your honest self? Are you already involved in a
polyamorous relationship and looking to improve your relationship
skills? We invite you to attend Loving Choices seminar and learn ways
to enjoy being your authentic self.

Loving More is excited to bring this amazing seminar series for the
first time to New Mexico .

Workshops by

New Mexico's own Mim Chapman Ph.D.

Loving More Managing Editor Robyn Trask

Sex Educator Amira Rain

Loving More Board member Jesus Garcia

Workshops include a variety of important relationship topics including
Safe Sex, Communication and agreements that work, exploring the variety
of relationship choices, Myers-Brigs personality model and much more.
What you will learn
* New models beyond marriage and monogamy
* Communication Skills
* Being real and honest about what you need and want
* Making Agreements that work for you
* Dating finding people of like mind
* Managing Emotions and Jealousy
* Enjoying pleasure and letting go of shame
* Poly Living styles knowing what you want
* Polyamory 101

Who Should Attend
* those seeking to improve their polyamorous relationships and
deepen their connections with partners,
* people new to or exploring polyamory as a possible choice in their
personal relationships
* Therapists, counselors and others who work in the relationship
field.
* Those who are looking to better their relationships with new
points of view.
Evening Party with Live Entertainment
Following the Seminar is an optional Loving More celebration and
evening social. This is a chance to meet and socialize with other poly
friendly people. Food, beverages (non-alcoholic), and live musical
entertainment provided.
REGISTRATION INFORMATION Full Day (9:00am-6:00pm) Buffet Lunch
included

Seminar & Evening Social

Seminar Only

Pre-registered (by 5/1/08) ** Extended to May 5, 2008 for online only***

$125

$110

At the door

$130

$110
Half Day (limited availability, no lunch) Morning (9:00am-1:00pm) or
Afternoon (2:00pm-6:00pm)

Seminar & Evening Social

Seminar Only

Pre-registered (by 05/1/08) ** Extended to May 5, 2008 for online only***

$85

$65

At the door

$95

by arrangement
Social only
Pre-registered $30 Loving More members receive a 10% discount on
the seminar.
$25 Cancellation Fee - No Refunds After May 2, 2008

Space is limited and pre-registration is highly recommended. Call
before showing up at the door as we might to sell out.
Register online at www.lovemore.com <www.lovemore.com/> or call
303-543-7540

Loving More Non-Profit Organization.
PO BOX 4358
Boulder, CO 80306
www.lovemore.com <www.lovemore.com/>

© 2008 Loving More Non-Profit Organization. All Rights Reserved

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 0 replies

Bored with poly?

2008-05-01T18:36:44Z

These days I've found myself bored with poly. I have so much stress with my career that I find I just have no patience to deal with all the processing required to be involved with the play party scene anymore. My partner feels the same way. If there were someone I was really "in love" with and it seemed worthwhile, I'd consider it....I'm just tired of the scene and not looking for anything outside of my relationship.
It's nice to remain uncomplicated and drama free.

Anyone else at this point?
I'm also coming to a place where I feel I can openly admit that watching other people have sex doesn't turn me on most of the time.

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 12 replies

Also (Seemingly) Going Poly -> Mono

2008-04-07T01:27:17Z

I've been subbed for a long time but have never contributed. For some reason, today feels like the right time.

I thought about adding my comments to B's thread but decided that my situation was different enough to start my own, and I didn't want to jack in any way.

I was in a poly scenario as the center of a 'V' between a primary and a secondary, where the secondary also had another lover (so maybe it was really an 'N'). My secondary lover thought she could handle the sexuality between myself and my primary, but found she could not. As she thought about simply being with her other lover solely, we had a threesome evening to see how that felt...where he and I were the wings of the V, two hetero men focusing on her.

It worked well at some levels but also at the other end I was majorly triggered several times over the course of the evening, and I got supported by both of them through those times. Overall, I came away from the event feeling feeling like I "couldn't handle" their being lovers, in large part because I felt as though she were drifting away from me.

I ended up trans'ing my primary relationship to a friendship and my former secondary and I are in process of coming to a mono agreement as exclusive primaries, at least for a period of time to see how we feel about doing that. I feel as though my former secondary could not really handle being poly as long as I had another lover, and yet, I haven't felt like I wanted to let her go, and in fact, have felt more like I've needed to experience sexually with her even if it meant giving up a good ten year relationship, or at least transitioning that to a friendship, with my former primary. My former primary and I are going in and out of doing okay as friends, as she goes through her own process around my initiating this change. I have expressed major heartbreak in my own private space about having to initiate that, because really, I'd rather have kept being sexual with her, but more than that, I wanted to have a relationship with the new person more. A very very tough decision for me.

It's been an incredible roller coaster ride. I never thought in a million years I'd be going back to a primary situation after feeling like it was poly or bust for so many years. I am still a poly newbie though, even though I've felt poly...this all has been my first attempt at polyamory, and I didn't realize how strong my mono parts still really are. I think I wore a deep groove in serial monogamy over the years.

Just felt like sharing, thanks for listening.

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 1 reply

looking for guidance (a little OT)

2008-03-31T22:17:30Z

Hello everyone,

I just joined this tribe becuase it is a topic that croses my mind regularly. Basically, I am 23 and moved back to the LA area after spending most of five years in Hawaii working on my degree. I have a boyfriend and we have been together for 7 years, high school sweethearts, did the long distance relationship thing.

While I was in Hawaii we did the open relationship thing since I was gone and we both had needs. When I got back he expressed a concern that he didnt feel ready to be monogamous with me for the rest of his life, understandable we are still really young. When I was gone I was ok with it, now that im back its a thing I struggle with. He is very understanding and realizes that I am not ok with it at this time so he doesnt stray.

I have some confidence issues and recently discovered some jealousy issues (even though I thought I was over those years ago). I am interested in the possibility of bringing other people into our sexual exploration, but I can not get over the hurtle to feel ok with it. I know its something we both want, but I dont know how to be comfortable. Any suggestions and guidance would be much appriciated. I know this is not an overnight adjustment, that it takes time, but I think I need to be pointed in the right direction.

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 5 replies

anyone nullyamory?

2008-02-26T12:15:50Z

..I wonder about an inverse world ..where things would be flipped such that this tribe would be entittled "polygamy vs monoamory"..

I got to thinking why this tribe is not entittled "monoamory vs polyamory"

or "monogamy vs polygamy"...

I also wonder if those who gather around the thought of monogamy may be a more accurate label monoamory. If I where monogamous as my actions seem to suggest ...I think i would choose to identify myself with monoamory rather than monogamy...

I tend to like the amory part the best..

sometimes I think I may be perhaps "nullamory".. since I seem to struggle with even loving myself in lengthy span of times, muchless my significant other.

Actually I don't dwell on labels.. but playing with them goes spark some ?serendipituous? thinking that can enlighten me in some new unexpected ways..

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 7 replies

really need feedback..

2008-02-25T02:26:03Z

About a year ago, i met someone and I started courting her, being a gentleman the whole time. After some lunch dates, and a visit to an art show, i finally asked how she manages to raise her kids and go to school. Then she tells me she's got a partner. I was pissed, maybe i should have asked sooner, but she probably should have told me at the start (she said she didn't want to assume i was romantically interested..) i really liked the person she is though, and we have a lot in common, so i decided to maintain a friendship.

Years ago, she was married to the father of her oldest child; but he split, and has been a pretty lame dad since. She is adamantly opposed to marriage now. She lives with the biological father of her youngest child. He provides for the family, but she has expressed to me feelings of guilt for staying in the relationship while her heart's not totally in it.

Coinciding with our paths meeting, she began communicating to her partner that she is an autonomous woman and desires an open relationship. to a degree, she feels like her current relationship is a business arrangement, and she's trying to make a life for herself that meets her emotional and spiritual needs. She has told her partner about our friendship, and our potential for a relationship. He's really attached to the idea of monogamy, and is afraid of loosing her, she maintains he never had her. He and i have just recently met.

The situation between the two of them is this: he has told her that he doesn't want to hinder her happiness and gave permission to explore all life has to offer with me, but doesn't really want to know about anything between the two of us. He's trying to accept her needs/desires, and has really built his world around her, and is in a lot of turmoil between accepting this and maintaining a hold on the life he wants.

This woman and i have a wonderful bond, and always have the most fun together. We ride bikes, write poems, and have wonderful adventures. only recently have we've started being physically intimate.

I don't want to be a source of disharmony in their home, but I don't want to cut my ties with her, and i can't quell the fire in my heart.

So my question: is what the hell am i to do? (i don't have kids btw, and never explored poly relationships)

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 2 replies

Fictional Dumbledore is gay, but his off-screen persona is a wicked pimp living a MFF threesome

2008-02-24T00:25:41Z

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=517649&in_page_id=1773

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 0 replies

Is there a list of questions [someplace] about open relationships to ask...

2008-02-21T06:18:08Z

Is there a list of questions [someplace] about open relationships to ask a partner [and yourself] to get on the same page? Are there basic aspects of open relationships that should be sussed out before diving in [do's and don'ts]? Are there some decriptions for different types of open relationship models that can serve as guidance without labeling them as "the rule" so much as pros and cons of each?

Yes a load of questions, but this is the place I think...

It would help if the response was in a bulleted format, a list of questions or a reference referral for a good source would be the response...not a long personal statement... [just a suggestion].

thanks

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 1 reply

Lifestyle info

2008-02-12T17:01:08Z

What is Swinging?

Swinging is a form of recreational social sex between consenting adults, most commonly consisting of male/female couples meeting other male/female couples for sex and/or ongoing intimate friendships. Contrary to popular belief, couples that are involved in the swinging lifestyle are usually in it more for the friendship with other couples rather than the sex involved. Hence, the expression used in the lifestyle: "friends with benefits".

Swinging (otherwise known as "the lifestyle") can take a variety of different forms. Although single women are generally welcome at swinging events, the degree to which single men are accepted is very limited if at all. Although female bisexuality is generally accepted in the swinging community, the degree to which male bisexuality is accepted also very limited. Swing clubs can be "on-premises" (which means that one may interact sexually with others at that event) or "off-premises" (which means that one would generally go back to the home or hotel room of other couples for sex, after deciding to do so at the event).

Newspapers and magazines, which carry personal ads for swingers, also exist, and to a slightly lesser degree these publications may also be considered an aspect of "the lifestyle." Swingers have traditionally been largely middle to upper class and tend to blend in quite easily with the general population in terms of appearance and ideology.
What Might I Like About Swinging?

People may be attracted to the swinging community for a variety of different reasons. Many couples find the thought of having sex with other people to be very arousing, and may find that swinging becomes a catalyst for improving their sex lives and relationship. Some people may feel stifled by repressive societal attitudes towards sexuality, and may welcome the opportunity to form friendships and a new social network with people of like mind.

Others may simply feel that sex should be a natural possibility in any friendship in which there is mutual attraction, and so appreciate the relative open-mindedness and pleasure-positively with which the swinging community views this subject. Although the swinging community is unfortunately not always the best place right now for het-identified men to explore their potential bisexuality, it is currently a relatively good place for het-identified women to initially explore sex with other women, and this sometimes plays a role in couples choosing to seek it out. In the past, the swinging community has been somewhat unaware of or confused by alternative sexual practices such as BDSM or Tantra. This appears to be changing, and these days you may find many folks in the swinging community who are knowledgeable about such things (though forms of BDSM much more extreme than spanking or very light bondage may make people uncomfortable, depending on the club).

If you're interested in doing so and spend enough time meeting different people, you may actually find that today's swinging community is becoming a somewhat fertile place to meet folks with a variety of sexual interests. It is certainly true right now that the national swinging conventions tend to host seminars and workshops on a variety of sexual topics, which seems at least somewhat indicative of broadening perspectives in the community.

Some women may find the swinging community to be a welcome dose of sanity. Our culture can be quite cruel to women who have an active interest in sex, often derisively labeling them "sluts" - a term which stands in sharp contrast to the less derogatory term for men, "studs". The swinging community may be especially attractive to these women, who may feel their sex drives and/or sexual assertiveness should be appreciated rather than snickered about or reviled.

Some people end up learning quite a bit about themselves and their sexualities through swinging. For example, most folks find that having their partner actively enjoy and appreciate what they are experiencing during sex to be a tremendous turn-on; this is a realization which may stand in sharp contrast to the attitude that "performance" is all-important. Swinging can be an opportunity to learn to relax and appreciate sexual pleasure, and may help one view sex more as a source of pleasure and intimacy and less as a social bargaining chip or ego fuel.
What Might I Dislike About Swinging?

If you are uncomfortable with people being sexually attracted to you and/or flirting with you, then you might be uncomfortable at swinging events; similarly, if your relationship with your partner is on shaky ground, you might find seeing him or her flirt or be flirted with to be an uncomfortable experience. If either of you have hidden agendas concerning finding a permanent "replacement" for each other, you're probably in for a major emotional disaster. If you and your partner cannot communicate directly about relationships and sex, you're probably eventually in for a similarly sized disaster. In general, sex can provoke strong feelings along with its many pleasures; if you aren't comfortable dealing with emotions, then perhaps it might be better to wait a little while before exploring "the lifestyle." If you are a single male, you might actually be better off waiting until you are in a suitable relationship with a female before attempting to become active in swinging - most swing clubs allow very few if any single men to attend their events.
General Hints for Enjoyable Swinging

In the context of swinging, "couples" need not be married. They should, however, have at least a little history together and familiarity with each others' emotional needs, and be comfortable approaching others as a "couple." The general rule of thumb is that swinging works best when couples view swinging as an enhancement to their existing sexual relationship, rather than as a replacement for a failing one.

As one would expect, good communication is critical in any attempt at swinging as a couple. There are many, many different forms that swinging may take, and whichever one you choose is fine as long as you and your partner are clear about what you are doing and why. Sex has the potential to be an emotionally-charged area, and the pleasures that may be found in swinging can generally be reached only when both partners are sensitive to each others' needs, and put their partner's comfort first. From a more pragmatic point of view, there will always be another party, another personal ad, another dance, another convention; there may not be another chance to salvage an exploration into swinging if one partner becomes overwhelmed in "the garden of delights" and forgets to treat his or her primary partner with sensitivity and respect.

It's important to keep in mind that swinging is primarily a SOCIAL activity. The ordinary social customs of meeting people and initiating a conversation are really not that different than at any other type of social gathering, and the process by which acquaintances become close friends is not that different either. The key social traits that tend to be appreciated in the swinging community are responsibility, friendliness, flirtatiousness, open-mindedness, and most importantly stability with regard to one's primary relationship.

As is the case with almost all human social endeavors, if you already know people in a particular community you'll probably be happier if you attend your first few events with these people so they can introduce you to others. Waiting a little while and watching how others behave is also a good idea, as it is in almost any new social situation. Common courtesy, of course, is as welcome in the swinging community as it is in any other community; we're all just people, after all.

There are several different styles of swinging which you may see in the swinging community. Some people may prefer not to be around when their partner is having sex with someone else ("closed swinging"), while others may insist on it ("open swinging"). The term "soft swinging" refers to trading partners just for the purposes of heavy petting and then switching back to one's primary partner for any actual sex. It might be valuable for you to think about whether there are any potential situations that you feel you would be more or less comfortable in, and discuss these with your partner.

Although not all couples find it necessary to do this, some couples feel more comfortable having social "codes" that only the two of them know. Examples might be discreet phrases or gestures which mean a) one of you is attracted to the people or person he or she is talking to and wants to know if you are interested in swinging with them, b) a reply to the above, either affirmatively or negatively, and c) one of you is not having a good time and wants to get away from things for a while.

At most swingers clubs, it's common for people to dress up or else wear very sexy and risqué clothing. If there's a dress theme for a particular event, go with the theme.

By the way, it is not necessary to actually have sex with other people to have a good time in the swinging community. Activities such as dances can provide a wonderful opportunity to flirt and be flirted with in a non-threatening yet sexually charged atmosphere, which can be fun.
Dealing with Jealousy

There are many different opinions about jealousy - several of the books recommended at the end of this guide devote considerable attention to the topic.

An interesting dynamic can sometimes arise in couples new to swinging, a dynamic which has inspired the community adage that "the more enthusiastic member of a couple will get the couple into swinging, but the less enthusiastic partner will keep them there." As Carol Queen puts it in her book Exhibitionism for the Shy
"The swing community has noticed another prevalent dynamic in couples where one partner, more often than not the man, has more enthusiasm than the other. He has had terrific fantasies about freewheeling sex and plenty of it, and he finally convinces his initially reluctant partner to give swinging a try. When they get to the party, she has a great time and is high demand, while he thinks the party's a dud... Before you pack up your sexy outfit and fistful of condoms, take some time to consider and negotiate how you will deal with the chagrin of the less popular partner if such a dismaying event happens to you."

In other words, some jealousy may spring from insecurity: if I'm worried that I'm not valuable enough to keep my primary partner's interest and love, or that fewer people will be interested in playing with me than with my primary partner, I may be more apt to get jealous. For the latter case, some of these fears may be alleviated by choosing, at least initially, to only swing together as a couple; this way neither partner can be left out.

Sometimes jealousy may spring from feelings of scarcity rather than feelings of insecurity: the fear is that "there's only so much love and so much pleasure and so much intimacy to go around." With this in mind, I'd like to quote from the NASCA Guide to Swinging, "The Myth of the Scarcity of Love is the popular belief that 'love is scarce,' which encourages hoarding. Hoarding, in turn, created the very scarcity that was feared to begin with. The myth's premises are that each of us has a very limited amount of love to give, spend, or sell; that if this is divided among several people, each will get less; that love can be saved; and that in order to be valuable, true love must be exclusive."

If you enjoy good literature and want to explore this idea in more depth, take the time to read a short story by Amy Bloom entitled "Love Is Not a Pie" (published in her Come to Me: Stories collection). But just as food for thought for the time being, you might consider a question which Dr. Deborah Anapol poses in Polyamory: The New Love Without Limits: "Imagine a culture in which your partner's attraction to another signified opportunities for greater pleasure and intimacy; would jealousy occur in this context?" I honestly don't know the answer to this question, but for me swinging has been part of the inquiry.

To end this section on a more practical note, many couples find that the secrets to dealing with jealousy tend to revolve around good communication, keeping agreements, reassuring each other as to your love and commitment before and after playing with someone new, and listening to each other's emotional concerns and taking them seriously whenever they arise. If jealousy becomes an issue for you and your partner, you might try working on some or all of these things. Of Interest to Men...

By including these warnings I do not mean to imply that all or even most men would ever act like this; chances are if you're still reading this document you already have a healthy social sense and wouldn't think to misbehave in these ways. But anyway, here goes...

Attempting to hire an escort or sex worker to go to a swinging event with you, if you don't have a regular female partner, just so you can get in the door is a terribly poor idea; this is considered inappropriate at every club I have ever heard of, is generally sufficient to get you black-listed, and is a ruse that is highly likely to be noticed by others. A related concept is taking along someone who isn't really your primary partner and isn't really interested in swinging; such folks are called "tickets" (i.e. you just used them as a "ticket" to get in the door), and this practice isn't looked upon favorably either.

If you want nothing more than to see your female partner have sex with another woman, you will probably be better off forgetting about it until she brings it up; wandering around the club by yourself attempting to find a woman who wants to have sex with her, or otherwise trying to push this personal choice into happening, is considered quite unrefined and to be lacking in discrimination and sensibility.

Finally, please remember to converse with both members of a couple you and your partner are interested in, not just the partner you are interested in having sex with; ultimately it's your ability to form friendships with COUPLES which will determine the quality of your experience in the swinging community.
Using Personal Ads

In general, you will probably waste less time by placing an ad than by responding to ads. When writing your personal ad, it's important to be clear and honest about what your requirements are. You may find it helpful to first obtain a P.O. Box and a voice mail box which aren't traceable to your real name or home address; it's also a good idea to arrange the first meeting with someone new to be in a neutral and/or public place, so that if things don't seem to be going well you'll be able to leave easily and nobody new will know where you live. Ultimately, however, if you have swing clubs (whether on- or off- premises) in your area you will probably be better off meeting swingers through them than through personal ads.
Keeping Yourself and Your Partner Healthy
Introduction

Each sex-positive community in this country has had a different response to the AIDS crisis, and in the face of a very frightening disease it is hard for me to fault people for acting irrationally sometimes. However, I believe the time has come for a more intelligent, pleasure-positive, and long-term response to STDs (of all kinds) than "excluding bisexual men," "inquiring about sexual histories and hoping for the truth," "trying to reassure yourself about how few people in your community you think are infected right now," "stigmatizing anal play," etc.

Learning to use latex and water-based lube skillfully may take a little practice, and ultimately it is up to you and your partner whether you will follow some or all the precautions I'm going to describe. However, try to keep in mind some of the payoffs: increased protection from disease, increased peace of mind, increased protection against pregnancy when another form of birth control (such as the pill) fails, and greater ease in interacting with younger swingers who may have never known a time when they haven't felt it necessary to use latex.
The Basics

Put simply, the single most effective thing you can do to stay healthy when swinging is to use latex condoms for intercourse; this practice is now extremely common in the swinging community, and is often expected.

All condoms are not made alike; men should experiment with different brands until they find the one they like best. When you put on a condom, pinch its tip as you unroll it (all the way down!) to prevent an air bubble from forming in the reservoir tip. For intercourse, you should then put some water-based lube (such as I-D, ForPlay, Wet, or Astroglide) on the outside of the condom for comfort, mutual pleasure, and to keep the condom from tearing during sex.

For a while, health experts were recommending that people use condoms and water-based lubes with Nonoxynol-9 to help guard against HIV transmission; current evidence suggests that, in the real world, N-9 is not nearly as good at HIV prevention as it has proved to be at contraception. Also, many women are allergic or sensitive to N-9, and it tastes horrid. For these reasons I only purchase products without N-9, but of course the choice is yours.

It should be obvious that a new condom needs to be put on for each new partner. If you're going to switch from anal intercourse to vaginal intercourse, you should also put on a new condom (doing otherwise can cause vaginal infections - similarly, you shouldn't put any fingers that used to be in an anus in a vagina without first washing your hands with hot water and anti-bacterial soap).

Some men find that more sensation is transmitted to them if they put a drop of water-based lube in the tip of their condom before putting it on.
The History and Future of Swinging

Swinging dates back to the 1950's. Initially, personal ads were the only way to meet people in this particular lifestyle; the first organization to be open about swinging was the Sexual Freedom League (in Berkeley, California during the 1960's). Eventually, an umbrella organization called the North American Swing Club Association (NASCA) was formed to promote accurate information about the lifestyle all across the country.

Currently the Internet is becoming an alternative to printed personal ads, and a variety of large swinger's conventions are being held every year. Popular conventions include "New Orleans Swing Fest", "Lifestyles", "Wind and Waves", "Campout", "Northwest Celebration", and "Visions".

My best guess as to the future is that as more people in this country begin to think of themselves as "open-minded" and "sex-positive", as our response to STDs becomes more rational, and as more people from other sex-positive communities begin to explore swinging, the swinging community will grow and begin to attract a new generation of sexually adventurous enthusiasts. I suspect that the size and influence of the annual swinging conventions will continue to grow, and also suspect that "cyber-space" alternatives to real-life swinging (involving interactive video, sound, etc.) will become increasingly popular.

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 17 replies

Articles that may interest you at www.worldpolyamoryassociation.com:

2008-02-12T03:05:37Z

Articles that may interest you at www.worldpolyamoryassociation.com:

The New Monogamy New York Magazine, Nov 2005
Adding a Co-Wife Leanna Wolfe, Ph. D.
Alternative Dating Etiquette Terry Brussel-Gibbons
Are We Really Mono-Poly? Janet Kira Lessin from Loving More Magazine #22 Spring 2000
As the Other Shoe Drops Leanna Wolfe, Ph. D.
Back in the Saddle Again Janet Kira Lessin from Synergy December 2002
Bio Bases of Men's & Women's Sexual Attitudes Janet Kira Lessin
Compersion for Polyamous Pairs Sasha Lessin, Ph.D.
Co-Husband & NVC Improve My Poly Sasha Lessin, Ph.D.
Contact and Withdrawal: Riding the Rhythm of Relationships - Janet Kira Lessin
Ethical sluts' Develop New Language of Love for Open Relationships - Maxine Frith
Explore Loving More Janet Kira Lessin
Four Men and Two Ladies Janet Kira Lessin from Synergy March 2003
Goddess Gifting Goddess Janet Kira Lessin from Loving More Magazine #25 Spring 2001
Great Relations for Polys Sasha Lessin, Ph.D.
Great Sex Equals Great Health: The Health Benefits of Good Sex - Anonymous
Henry and Mary and Janet and Sasha Time Magazine Article - John Cloud
How To Share A Lover - (author unknown)
How We Did Poly February 2005 Janet Kira Lessin
In A Perfect Poly World Janet Kira Lessin
Incompatible Poly Worldview Kelly
Joining the Lessins in Paradise Jennie from Synergy August 2002
Lessins Learned on the John Walsh Show Janet Kira Lessin from Synergy November 2002
Love a Sister & Find Your Anima Janet Kira Lessin
Love the Ones You're With Jennifer King - Honolulu Weekly Article
Loving Beyond The Matrix Janet Kira Lessin
Lover Network or Live-Together Polyamory Janet Kira Lessin
More Loving Loving More Janet Kira Lessin from Synergy January 2003
Loving the One You're With Makes You Fit for Polyamory Sasha Lessin, Ph. D.
New Relationship Energy? Janet Kira Lessin from Loving More Magazine #17 Spring 1999
Not Another Dogma Janet Kira Lessin from Loving More Magazine #24 Winter 2000
One in 25 Fathers 'Not the Daddy"
Pair Dating Janet Kira Lessin Synergy June 2003
Perils and Pearls of Polyamory Janet Kira Lessin from Loving More Magazine #23 Summer 2000
Polyamorous Synergy Changes the World Janet Kira Lessin
Polyamory & Ahimsa: Talk with Lovers' Lovers Sasha Lessin, Ph.D
Polyamory Blossoms Janet Kira Lessin Synergy July 2003
Poly Love Pods Janet Kira Lessin
Poly Sexpectations Janet Kira Lessin
Poly Love-In: Sharing Sacred Sexuality Janet Kira Lessin & Sasha Lessin, Ph. D.
Poly Swingers Janet Kira Lessin & Sasha Lessin, Ph. D.
Poly Tantra: Polyamory & Tantra, a Potent Mix Janet Kira Lessin
When Your Beloved Loves Another Sasha Lessin, Ph.D.
Rotate and Erotically Relate Janet Kira Lessin
The Poly Gathering: Sharing Sacred Sexuality Janet Kira Lessin
The Poly Tantra Lovestyle Janet Kira Lessin
Time to be Me Janet Kira Lessin Synergy March 2003
Triad: Our First Month Living Together Janet Kira Lessin, Sasha Lessin, Ph. D. & Jennie
Triad: Tests & Triumphs Janet Kira Lessin Synergy August 2002
The Poly Advisors Janet Kira & Sasha Lessin, Ph. D
Truth, Trauma, Transition Janet Kira Lessin & Sasha Lessin, Ph. D. Loving More Magazine #20 Winter 1999
We're All Polyamorous Janet Kira Lessin & Sasha Lessin, Ph. D.
When One Lover Isn't Enough Leanna Wolfe, Ph. D.
Who'll Get On the Plane? Janet Kira Lessin

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 1 reply

Valentine's Day was originally a POLY Holiday ! (Book for Sale)

2008-02-09T22:57:37Z

It is almost that time of year when the virtues of monogamous love
are celebrated and exalted everywhere.

It therefore seems the perfect time to hock the book we bring out every year at Valentine's Day.

If ever there was a holiday designed to exalt the glory of monogamous
romantic love, Saint Valentine's day would be it.

But if you look just a little bit below the surface - examine the
ancient poetry, imagery and "sacred literature" associated with Saint
Valentine's Day, you quickly discover that before "Saint" Valentine's
Day became dedicated to the glorification of monogamous love, it was
about celebrating forms of love that were much freer, more open, more
spontaneous and more expansive than monogamy.

Most contemporary people think of Cupid shooting each person in the
heart with ONE of his arrows as something that causes them to fall in
love with ONE specific person. But in earlier centuries, Cupid often
shot two, three or more arrows into the same person's heart, thereby
causing that person to "fall in love" with more than one person
simultaneously.

Modern Valentine's Day images usually depict only ONE Cupid. But
until recently, it was assumed there were numerous Cupids out there -
whole throngs, armies, and flocks of them, each one shooting multiple
arrows at people's hearts. Each of these Cupids had several different
kinds of arrows, each of which created a different kind of "love."
Some arrows created an very intense and physically-based sexual
attraction. Other kinds of arrows caused more of an emotionally- based
passion, while still others created a very intellectual type of
attraction. Depending on how many arrows a person was shot with,
which kinds of arrows a person was hit with and which part of their
body was struck with the arrows, people could be made to
simultaneously "fall in love" with many different people all at the
same time, each one in a slightly different fashion.

Most other popular symbols of Valentine's day, including
the "Valentine" shaped heart, red roses, and even chocolate belonged
to non-monogamous traditions of love, sexuality and romance long
before they were appropriated by monogamy.

By clicking on the link below, you will be able to preview the first
eleven pages of this book, free and for no obligation.

www.lulu.com/content/675158

Whether such a book like this interests you or not, I hope you all
have yourselves a wild Poly Lupercalia celebration. And if the mono's
try to give you any static about it, just tell them they're quite
welcome to use OUR holiday themselves if they want to, just as long as
they remember where they got it from.

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 1 reply

Between the Sheets - Tribe to discuss resources for enhancing sexuality

2008-02-07T01:28:14Z

Between the Sheets - Tribe to discuss resources for enhancing sexuality
Wed, February 6, 2008 - 5:19 PM
I've started a tribe to discuss resources for enhancing sexuality called "Between the Sheets." Between the Sheets is a place to share and discuss resources for enhancing sexuality -- books, movies, websites, blogs, workshops, events and related tribes. It is also a forum for the intelligent discussion of relationships, fantasies, preferences, alternative sexuality, sexual health, sex & culture, sex education and laws affecting the expression of sexuality. Come join us for juicy, intelligent discussion about everyone's favorite topic.

tribes.tribe.net/betweenthesheets

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 0 replies

Newbie here saying hello!

2008-01-20T20:47:09Z

This is cross-posted on 2 or 3 tribes, but I just want to say hello to the tribes I can't wait to be an active member of!

Hello Lovers!

Just back in NYC from so much traveling for work that I forgot that I never really left for good. And I just moved apts and changed jobs so maybe that's where the disorientation comes from to. I'm not new to poly, just the concept that there is a much broader community out there than I ever imagined! ANyway, I'm excited to meet folks I have more in common with that poly, etc. I've had some strange and unhappy experiences trying to do that through a Yahoo group's mixers that was all about creepy guys whose wives would try to "bring me to them" like I was a meal--it was unconfortable for me but it certainly not there fault that I found myself in the wrong places. But I've been reading here and I feel like I'm in a right place. You all seem a lot more in tune with my aura. If there are any casual poly mixers out there, I love to know!

SB

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 0 replies

Dating a non-poly single person

2007-12-20T07:40:14Z

So I met this woman at a contra dance and we hit it off really well in a lot of ways, and have great chemistry. We've been hanging out a lot lately and things have heated up a bit, though no sex (yet). I'm married and poly; she's single. She's having a lot of issues about the fact that I'm married, and I just can't offer her the kind of relationship she seems to be wanting. But I *really* enjoy the chemistry we have going and she seems to as well. We're both conflicted about this and I think it is probably unworkable but I wanted to see if anyone here had some relevant experience or advice that might be helpful...??

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 18 replies

Polyamory in the News: Why all the good press?

2007-12-11T09:10:50Z

What IS it about polyamory that's getting us so much good notice right now in
the mainstream media?

If you haven't been reading Polyamory in the News
(http://polyinthemedia.blogspot.com/) in the last three months, here's some of
what you missed:

** The style magazine of the New York Post discovers the poly scene (one of
them anyway) and pretty much makes us out as the hippest, most where-it's-at
people in New York City.

** "Are open marriages more successful than traditional couplings?" asks ABC
News.com. "That's like asking if monogamy works," replies Deborah Anapol, whom
ABC News tracked down. "Sometimes it does, and sometimes it doesn't. It depends
almost entirely on the people involved and their willingness to tell the truth
and do the work."

** A sympathetic religion reporter looks at religion and spirituality among
polys for the Religion News Service. Yes, we do have good church-going
Christians.

** The Shifting Meaning of the Word Polyamory: "When a concept goes mass-market it often gets cheapened and
degraded. Even the most wonderful trend is liable to turn sour on going
downmarket, much to its originators' dismay...."

** Songs of Polyamory, including Penelope Swales, Gaia Consort, and the new one
making the rounds, "My Boyfriend's Girlfriend Isn't Me."

** A trans-queer triad bare their lives to a diet-and-gossip magazine. The
story (at least the writer's unedited version) is a heart-warmer.

** "Dear Margo," a top newspaper advice columnist, got a bit snarky toward
polys, heard from many of us in reply, and as a result, came back with an
apologetic and wonderfully good piece educating middle America. Your great-aunt
in Oshkosh may be thinking a little better of you after reading it.

** Leaders of Loving More say their stuff for an hour on Rev. Barry Lynn's talk
show. (Listen to the mp3.)

** A parenting magazine offers a sweet account of a tightly knit triad raising
their young daughter: "And Baby Makes Four".

** All of which prompted a major essay analyzing the "strange credibility of
polyamory" across a surprising swath of mainstream culture. Exactly why are we
doing so well right now, and when does the backlash happen?

Plus: poly in South Africa and Germany; veto power as the nuclear option; poly
rules that couples use (or not); more on open marriage, including a new book in
the works and a poly couple daring to appear on Oprah Winfrey....

------------------

Here's the site: http://polyinthemedia.blogspot.com/. The 10 most recent items
are up front. Look in the recent monthly archives for more. The archives are
also sorted by subject and, in some cases, location. I've done 169 of these
reports in the last two years; have fun browsing.

Cheers,

Alan

P.S.: If you’re on LiveJournal, you can friend an LJ feed for the site:
http://syndicated.livejournal.com/polymedia

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 1 reply

Perceptions

2007-12-03T01:11:24Z

A relatively new friend asked me a question yesterday that felt really hurtful. I KNOW that it wasn't intended to be so, and was just a result of now knowing how to broach the subject, but I'm still upset by it this morning, so I wanted to ask: is this how most people perceive poly relationships?

What she said was: "How long have you been living the life style you have in which your husband lets you have "girl friends". <snip> How do you keep from getting to close to these women?"

Gah!!! Yeah, I'm married, and my husband is monogamous, so I suppose that it could appear that he "lets" me have a girl on the side. But in the 15ish years that we have agreed that my dating wouldn't harm "Us" (we've been together for 20, and he's always known I was bi...it just didn't occur to me that continuing to see women after our marriage was a possibility at first), I've had exactly three girlfriends, *all* of them serious, and all of them long term. (Okay, one was only 6 months, but the others were 11/2 and 3 years, respectively, and all three women are still major...I mean weekly, at least...parts of my life, as very close friends.)

I guess the part that hurt was the assumption that I don't get close to the women that I date. Like they're playthings, or some such. Like, because I'm poly, I'm incapable of commitment, or love, or intimacy. Do you guys get this same type of response? Am I ignorant to think that people accept me and my girlfriend (when I have one) as a legitimate couple, and at the same time remember that my husband and I are one, as well? That he's not a cuckold, or a pervert, simply because he "allows" this? Or worse, that he doesn't know at all!? Or is everyone thinking what this one person, in all innocence, said to me yesterday? Because if that's the case, it SUCKS.

Sorry for the rant, guys, but I'm just distressed. I'm so TIRED of having to explain and defend my life. I'm so tired of people having the *entirely* wrong set of assumptions about who I am, or how I live my life. Even people that I really thought that I knew have dropped the word "swinger" in, to describe my relationships to others (in front of me!). And no insult intended to people in that lifestyle, but I'm SO not a "swinger", and I thought that showed in the way that I try to make all of my people a "family", and the way that we Iive openly and honestly. (Please, anyone who IDs with that term, don't be insulted...I don't mean it badly. It's just that this term is often equated with a sex or play only dynamic, which is antithetical to what I am doing in my life. I realize that not everyone uses that term in the same way.)

Anyhow, I don't know what advice I hope to glean from this post. I just feel gutted and sad, like everything that I try to be, every way that I try to represent love in my tiny piece of the world, isn't beeing seen or heard, and it's lame. I guess I'm looking for hope.

Thanks, guys.

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 8 replies

One Day Polyamory Hotel Seminar in South San Francisco

2007-10-28T03:17:16Z

This is the first in a series of seminars around the country.

Loving More Loving Choices
A Relationship Seminar
Presented by
Loving More® Non-profit Organization
303-543-7540
Saturday November 3, 2007
San Francisco, CA
Clarion Airport
8:00am-6:00pm

In today's complex world of romantic relationships, finding and
maintaining honest intimate relationships is both challenging and
complex. We follow rules and relationship models based on societal
standards that may not work for us. Polyamorous relating is even more
complex. Our relationships start off like a dream come true but over
time things fizzle, losing their original spice and excitement or
becoming more complicated then we can deal with. With only one
dominant and accepted model for loving relationships, it is not
surprising many people are struggling. We at Loving More are aware of
these challenges and we are dedicated in helping people become aware
of choices and creating new models for loving relationships that work.

Loving More® is pleased to announce a new one day Seminar Series
"Loving Choices" focused on choosing what is right for you. Who says
that love has to follow a specific set of rules that limit how you
love others? Why pretend to be someone your not? Do you feel like
you can't be your honest self? Why fake it? Are you already
involved in a polyamorous relationship and looking to improve your
relationship skills? We invite you to attend the Loving Choices
seminar and learn ways to enjoy being your authentic self.

What you will learn
• New models beyond marriage and monogamy
• Communication Skills
• Being real and honest about what you need and want
• Making Agreements that work for you
• Dating – finding people of like mind
• Managing Emotions and Jealousy
• Enjoying pleasure and letting go of shame
• Poly Living styles – knowing what you want
• Polyamory 101

Who Should Attend
• those seeking to improve their polyamorous relationships and deepen
their connections with partners,
• people new to or exploring polyamory as a possible choice in their
personal relationships
• Therapists, counselors and others who work in the relationship field.
• Those who are looking to better their relationships with new points
of view.

Following the Seminar is an optional Loving More celebration and
evening social. This is a chance to meet and socialize with other
poly friendly people. Food and beverages (non-alcoholic) provided.

REGISTRATION INFORMATION
Full Day (9:00am-6:00pm)
Seminar & Evening Social Seminar Only
Pre-registered (by 11/1/07) $110 $90
At the door $135 $115

Half Day* (limited availability)
Seminar & Evening Social Seminar Only
Pre-registered (by 11/1/07) $90 $70
At the door $105 Not Available

Social only
Pre-registered $30
At the door $35

Loving More members receive a 10% discount on the seminar.
$25 Cancellation Fee - No Refunds After October 28, 2007

Space is limited to 100 attendees and pre-registration is highly
recommended. Call before showing up at the door as we expect to sell
out.

*Half day is Morning (9:00am-1:00pm) or Afternoon (2:00pm-6:00pm)

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 3 replies

considering poly

2007-10-15T19:28:14Z

where do i start?? i just got out of a 6 year monogamous relationship.. neither of us were ever totally committed to monogamy in the long run.. i'm really starting to consider poly relationships and need a bit of help learning where to start.. if anyone has any advice i'd really appreciate it.

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 17 replies

Insecurity at its finest.

2007-10-15T05:35:01Z

I recently entered a relationship with a beautiful, smart, wonderful bi girl. I've been in alot of LTR in the past few years each lasting from 1-2 years. I live about an hour 1/2 from my girlfriend and she in college all day while I work a boring state job. Recently my gf and I took her roomate to a raver party here in Albuquerque. During the party they mannaged to talk with each other and her roomate exclaimed she liked her and wanted to date her. My girlfriend consented and asked me later that night. I agreed as I love my girlfriend and want her to be happy and equally enjoy the comapny of her roomate. The only thing im worried about is if my girlfriend falls in love with her girlfriend as they live with each other and I bieng an hour 1/2 away have hardly any time to really make up for it. Add the fact that I have a revoked liceance and have to be totted everywhere leaves me wondering if I even have a chance.

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 7 replies

really rocky moments in poly households

2007-10-11T06:39:21Z

I have noticed that one of the most difficult things I have experienced in poly lifestyle is when there are rocky moments between 2 of the members of our family. Because we are a D/s family, the primary foundation of relationships seem to be with our Dominant rather than between submissives. There was a submissive woman that entered our family for a time and when the relationship between my Dominant and she got too rocky, they broke up. This caused my relationship with her to be cut off instantly though we did not have problems between the two of us. At the time it left a strange feeling as we were cut off from one another without any real sense of closure. I dont really know how to describe it. There is another woman in our family that came to be part of our family about 5 years ago. She and I have had a number of times over the years where our differences or disagreements would have ended our relationship had it been between only the two of us, but because neither was ready to end our relationship with our Dom, we have begrudgingly been forced to put up with each other and like children in the same house must find a way to make up and live together. Other times, when my Dom and I have had problems she has been the glue that held us together and when it is she, I think there have been times that I was that glue. When my Dominant and I have problems, she is the first to defend my perspective and I hers when the tables are turned. She and I seem to have that sisterly love that is present in biological families as a result. We care very much for one another, but have a tendency to poubt or be irritatied from time to time with each other. While there are times that I think she would be content to have me not in the picture, and while there are times that I might think that way when I am particularly annoyed, she is very much a part of my life and even though we get fed up or mad at each other from time to time, I imagine if she were not there, it would leave a hollow place in my life and in my heart. I guess the main idea behind this post is that I find that being 3 holds us and binds all of us together far more than a 2 person monogomous relationship would. We truly are a family because we are stuck with each other, care for each other, and bound together by each other. What are your thoughts/experiences with this?

katey_para_Sol

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 6 replies

Seeking queer triads for research!

2007-09-22T22:43:05Z

My name is Sunny. I am a graduate student in the Sexuality Studies program at San Francisco State University. I am conducting research on polyamory. The aim of my study is to explore how individuals in queer polyamorous triads discuss love in their relationships. I am in search of individuals in queer, long-term (one year or longer), polyamorous triads to interview. Individuals must identify themselves and their relationships as queer, and the triads must be three people who are all sexually and romantically involved with one another.

Participating in this study will entail a 45-90 minute one-on-one interview at a comfortable and private location convenient for both of us to discuss your experiences and feelings of love while in a triad.

If you are currently in a queer, long-term (one year or longer), triad relationship and are interested in participating in the study, please contact me!

smnordmarken@yahoo.com
(415) 516-0908

I am currently seeking people to interview! Please contact me as soon as possible if you would like to participate.

Thank you!
Sunny

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 0 replies

POLYAMORY & AHIMSA: Talk with Lovers' Lovers by Sasha Lessin, Ph.D.

2007-09-04T03:39:46Z

POLYAMORY & AHIMSA: Talk with Lovers' Lovers by Sasha Lessin, Ph.D.

Do you always, before you connect with someone with whom you're attracted, talk with that person's lovers?

I attended the Network for a New Culture's two week August
community meeting in the mountains of Oregon and found myself in the middle of an earnest debate that, bottom line, concerned alternate ways of connecting with new lovers.

Model 1: RESPECT EXISTING RELATIONSHIPS BEFORE YOU CONNECT

On one side of the debate, my wife Janet and I advocate complete
candor with the significant others of our would-be-lovers–before we
connect sexually with these prospects. Before we even tell anyone
either of us is attracted to someone, Janet and I speak privately
about whether to communicate our attraction to the objects of desire
one or both of us has. If both Janet and I agree to go ahead, we ask
the person(s) if they're interested in getting to know and perhaps
become friends and then lovers with us.

If our prospective lovers say, "Yes, let's explore going deeper with
each other," we ask to speak with each of their significant others
before we and the prospectives engage sexually. If, when we
communicate with our prospective lovers' lovers, these significant
others say. Okay," we proceed to get to know each other with the
intention of assessing whether to become more intimate.

If the significant others of our prospective lovers say, "Wait till
we too get to know you and Janet," we honor this. If they
say, "Wonderful, we fully support you connecting." we proceed to
develop the friendship that can lead to poly loving.

If, however, the significant others of our prospective lovers
indicate that it would create distress for them which they wish to
avoid, we keep our relating to the would-be-prospectives on the level
of friendship and share no sexuality. We choose to create no pain
for others; it hurts us to distress others, so we refrain from sex
with their lovers.

Model 2: FOLLOW YOUR BLISS SPONTANEOUSLY & LIVE WITH CONSEQUENCES

On the other hand in the debate we had at the conference, some polys
took the position that each person was autonomous and needn't consult
anyone–wife, lover or otherwise, nor need their perspectives consult
anyone before engaging in sex. If their prospective lovers' lovers
get uptight over it, too bad, that's life and maybe pain's what the
prospective's lovers need to grow–if they even have a candor
commitment. This sounds a bit like polyfuckery rather than ethical
polyamory the way Janet and I practice it.

We advocate ahimsa–harmlessness–candor, transparency. We believe in
truth, disclosure and kindness.

How do you practice poly? How do you manage communication with the
significant others of your prospective others? On this site and at
the World Polyamory Harbin Hot Springs (CA) Conference Oct 5-7, we
continue this debate in our panel discussion, How We Do Poly. Let us
know your perspective.

http://www.schooloftantra.net/worldpolyamoryassociation/conferences/Ha
rbinHotSprings2007/2007_harbin_hot_springs_presentations.html

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 1 reply

Last Week to Register for EC Polyamory Conference

2007-08-31T22:37:04Z

The conference is a little over a week away and we do have space
available for this fabulous weekend. Complete information is
available below and the schedule is now available at
http://www.lovemore.com/News/QuickNews.asp?cmd=VIEW&articleid=16

Join us for an enriching and educational weekend at Loving More's 2007
East Coast Polyamory conference and retreat. The annual East Coast
National Conference is held at the beautiful Easton Mountain Retreat
Center in upstate New York. Enjoy hiking on 175 acres, soak in the hot
tub, relax in the sauna, and enjoy the wonderful food and hospitality
of the Easton Mountain Staff.

The late registration member price is $465 for the four day three
night retreat.

Price includes
• Three nights shared lodging
• Delicious Meals (breakfast lunch and dinner)
• Workshops
• Playshops
• Use of Easton Mountain facilities

Three day two night option is also available for $395 for Friday
evening through Sunday. We offer a $35 discount for people who choose
to campout.

Special offers available:
• Group Discount when three or more attendees register together
receive $30 off each registration (good only for the full
Thursday-Sunday).
• Work Exchange; on a budget? Work three hours helping the staff and
attend for only $325

Register at www.lovemore.com or contact us 303-543-7540,
lovingmore@lovemore.com

This is a chance to immerse yourself in polyamory community, connect
with wonderful poly people from the US and overseas and make new
friends. Have fun sharing knowledge, and support and escape to a
magical place called Loving More.

This is the perfect place to learn for people who are polyamorous, new
to poly, poly curious, or just exploring relationships.

Experience
• Connecting with people of like mind from across the country
• A place to be your authentic self
• Exploring possibilities in relationships
• Music, dance and play time
• Community building
• An opportunity to explore outside your comfort zone in a safe
environment
• Heart and mind expanding workshops taught by trained professionals

Our experienced trained facilitators bring years of knowledge in
relationship skills, communication, personal growth and sexuality that
build relationship skills weather your single, coupled or have many
partners.

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 0 replies

Merrits?

2007-08-27T02:49:10Z

Is this supposed to be Merits? Or is there a new and mysterious attribute about M & P I don't know?

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 5 replies

Human Sexuality and Counseling / Therapy

2007-08-20T04:02:53Z

I'd like to state first off I don't consider therapy or counseling to imply and conotate a negativity or that there is something wrong with an individual.

Anyhow, what I'm wondering is what your experiences have been like with talking to a counselor or therapist about sexuality and relationships.

It's a broad question, I know, but I'm wondering if the outside perspective has given you insights and challenged your belief's. If so, in what ways?

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 6 replies

Call for unity against TV sensationalism

2007-08-08T19:38:30Z

I know I haven't posted in here for a very long time, but new developments have happened and I felt I should share this. This is shared with permission from Loving More. Feel free to forward this message along to all you can think of.

Message: ----

Loving More® is currently talking with Pilgrim Films about a polyamory reality show. Personally, I am not fond of reality shows but they are big right now and, like it or not, there will be reality shows on the subject. As a community we have the ability to influence how we are represented. By working together we can have an effect. Loving More is currently working with a few people within the poly community willing to do media appearances but we need more diversity.

This show is important. As of now they are looking for people who represent the majority of society; a family, raising kids in suburbia or some type of middle class poly folk. I know that many of us do not exactly fall in this category and some even resent that they are looking for that, but I am asking all of us to look at this as an opportunity to educate people in a real way. Poly people come in all shapes, orientations and classes of weirdness but if we want the public to take this movement seriously and make progress toward changing attitudes, then we need to help the average person open their mind. This is important for all of us who may have jobs, kids, family or other matters that can be affected by our choice of polyamory as a lifestyle. There are many poly people out there living in suburbia raising kids but few who feel safe to be out. Those who are willing to come out and talk to media are often not representative of the community as a whole but one small segment that many people can not relate to.

I get asked many repeating questions by the media that imply certain assumptions. One of the most common is the perception that poly people are long haired, granola eating hippies still living out their experience of the 60’s, or that we are sex addicted deviants. Is this the perception of polyamory you want portrayed? Does it really matter? Only when we show people another version will we change these preconceived ideas.

All of you can help in several ways:

1. By coming to Loving More when you are asked or considering a media appearance.
a. Let us help you by negotiating on your behalf. We are getting good at working with the media so that you are treated well, compensated for your time, and not ambushed. We can help you prepare for interviews or TV appearances.

2. By letting us know that you are willing to speak to the media and what kinds of media you are willing to do.
a. For this we need pictures and bios.

3. Is to let us know when you here of a documentary, talk show, or other media looking for poly people.
a. Chances are we have already heard from and talked to them but let us know anyway so we can help.

We are not here to tell you how you should do an interview or TV appearance but to simply help put your best foot forward. Talk shows, reality TV and similar shows are entertainment media out there to make money. They are not journalists and I feel sometimes it is easy to confuse the two. We also work with the journalistic media but it is a different media and in my experience they have been fair and easy to work with. TV entertainment shows thrive on sensationalism and they have their own agenda. What we want is to take advantage of the opportunity, influence the content, and minimize the exploitation.

We are a diverse community looking to change the possibilities in personal relationships, from our granola eating vegetarians to our sex crazed republicans. Working as a community we can have a real impact. If we are united they will have to at least meet us partway to get people for their needs. Change can happen and my wish is that polyamory becomes just another option in personal loving relationships.

Let us know if you or someone you know would be a good fit for this show and willing to do it. Also, if you are not up for this show but would be interested in something else, then share that with us. Email us with media in the subject line lovingmore@lovemore.com or call 303-543-7540.

Thanks for all your support and help

Robyn Trask
Loving More®
www.lovemore.com

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 0 replies

Label Your Lifestyle, Label Yourself

2007-08-02T21:39:29Z

"At this point I am hoping my stay in the mono side of things really is temporary, or I will have to have one of those long talks with myself about how poly I really am." - Arashi

The rather long-winded essay below began as a response to this statement, and ended up a dissertation on labels themselves. I'd still like to share it with you. I will cross-post it to a couple of the tribes it applies to and my journal. I hope that no-one minds. :)

Again, I think the misconception here is that "Polyamoury" is a thing. I've often said I played the devils advocate with labels, because they *do* allow strangers a rough template, a place to start from, when they're figuring out how to relate to someone new. Beyond that though, people begin to see them as an entity or a template to mold into, qualify as. If you aren't careful it becomes a glass ceiling and an obstacle keeping your perception from helping you realize who you are as an individual.

This is the danger of all tools.

I'll use myself as an example, because I'm the only person I know that well ;)

FIrst, I'll tell you that I've had several relationships with men. There, right way you can establish that the chances are good that I'm gay, or at least bi-sexual. If that's the only thing I tell you you'll probably label me as gay.

But, I'm married.

Now you think you've got it figured out. I'm probably bisexual, possibly a gay man in denial?

But, I haven't been in a relationship with a man for nine years.

Wait, this is getting confusing. Possibly I was just experimental, or trying to be trendy. Maybe I'm a happily married bisexual male. Maybe I'm *still* gay, but still happily in denial in it's most extreme, at least for the time being.

I could go on like this forever, because the layers of a human personality don't lend themselves to simple admissives and dismissives.

What if I told you I've been with her gay friends in front of her, recently. We've had sex with other peple, recently. Now what are we? What happens if I tell you that it may never happen again, or that we are never, ever with people without the other person there.

All these layers, all this doubt. All these assumptions crashing into each other. The tool becomes a weapon, at least to me (in this example), because now what was intended to help you realize who I am is limited by the image each part of my personality creates. Am I "poly" am I a "swinger". Am I gay,bi, or straight?

How many things have I told you that exclude one and prove another in spite of itself? And what if two years from now I end up divorced in a relationship with two men? Was I ever monogamous, straight, bisexual, am I now?

You see, the problems with labels starts when you use them as a noun, instead of an adverb.

An adverb is a part of speech. It is any word that modifies any other part of language

In traditional school grammars, nouns are all and only those expressions that refer to a person, place, or thing.

"all and only" is what we've been tought. That "man" is not a "bisexual". He is a "bisexual man". To say "that's a efemminant guy" is to say he has a tendancy towards androgyny. "That guy is a fem." indicates that he will do things to conciously put forth and mold himselsf into an androgynous person.

To learn about ourselves, that's one of the first destinctions we should make in our language and how we understand the terms that define us, because ultimately nothing does. You are a person. You are (likely) a human being. Beyond that anything can change. Clumsy, graceful, gay, straight, polo, mono. It's pride, or our need to categorise that raises these less important definative terms to descriptions of the beings we are.

We have to, as inquisitive and ever-fluxuating beings, from the personal to the communal level, understand that everything short of being in and of itself is subject to change by such universal factors we can NEVER assume it's constant.

So take these words, and use them to understand your tendencies, your curiosities, but treat them like you would a bookmark in the novel, which is you. Ever-changing and progressing, pausing in places of particular interest one the way from the beginning to the end.

Consider them a definition, and you could be stuck on the same page forever.

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 1 reply

new name?

2007-07-23T20:48:24Z

I sort of like the idea of the non combative tribe name but itdoesn't seem to have the pizzazz of the old monogamy VS polyamory.
umm...not to nitpick but could you spruce up the spelling for the tribe name. Thanks.

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 13 replies

Big Love - new show on HBO

2007-07-20T17:28:09Z

Have any of you watched this show yet? It's a man with three women and all their children - living together.

Taking the religious aspect out of the show - how much of the drama in the show around balancing relationships is real in your poly relationships?

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 28 replies

Seeking Loving Wife for Joyfull Tantra Sexy Poly Fidelity Family in USA (35810) ---> Lets Connect Today!

2007-07-16T10:47:27Z

Greetings New Friends/Family!

We are a joyfull sexy Tantra Poly Fidelity Family here in
Huntsville Alabama 35810

We are seeking a new Wife(s) to share our love and life
in this poly fidelity family of living spirit!

Must be Fit, Healthy, d/d free, Positive-No Drama
and Love Love Love Tantra-Conscious Living!

If you are longing for a truely conscious family full of love fun and joy
that is long term, write us an email and let us know what you interest are.

All Super Mothers with Children are welcome, (we have children also!)
Lets build a lasting Friendship and create a wonderful conscious family together!
Light and Love!
Larry and Alberta

PS
if you would like to connect with us directly today,
please send us an email with your interests and some
pictures of you to atkinsonlarry@yahoo.com

posted in Monogamy vs Polyamory - 0 replies