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Hi ladies... I haven't been on in a while but I thought I'd share this golden nugget of wisdom with you all.
So the other day I was talking to my boss and mentioned that my little lady has started doing temper tantrums at 17 months and I am getting a glimpse of the beginning of the terrible 2's and not looking forward to them.
She has a almost 7 year old and an 8 month old. She tells me that a psychologist friend of hers once told her
"The terrible 2's aren't so bad. It's the Fuck You 3's you have to watch out"
I had to laugh and groan in the same breath.
So the other day I was talking to my boss and mentioned that my little lady has started doing temper tantrums at 17 months and I am getting a glimpse of the beginning of the terrible 2's and not looking forward to them.
She has a almost 7 year old and an 8 month old. She tells me that a psychologist friend of hers once told her
"The terrible 2's aren't so bad. It's the Fuck You 3's you have to watch out"
I had to laugh and groan in the same breath.
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Los Angeles
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Wed, October 28, 2009 - 4:45 PMI have two kids that are older and I can WHOLEHEARTEDLY vouch for the F-YOU threes. It's fer real and it was a test to my humanity. Luckily I knew how to breathe deeply and do on demand yoga posing. Esp. with my oldest daughter. It was INTENSE when she was 3. phew. I still have 1.5 years until G gets there.
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Wed, October 28, 2009 - 7:22 PMthats the truth. In my nanny experience, 2 is a breeze compared to 3!
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Wed, October 28, 2009 - 8:34 PMI'll just have to take it a day at a time. Year 2 was actually pretty hardcore around here. My son embraced the terrible part of "Terrible Twos" with gusto! Next month he turns three and all of a sudden he is starting to become a lot more reasonable and cooperative and much better about just saying what he needs and what is bothering him. It is such a relief to actually be able to reason with him! Granted the times when he does become unreasonable he goes full force. But so far things are looking up for year three......*crossing fingers*
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Wed, October 28, 2009 - 8:36 PMwe're in the thick of it, and fuck, it's hard.
but i vow to turn the corner to four as better human being and a better mom.
keep us in your thoughts ... we have 10 months to go ;)
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 12:44 PMMy son is two and the hardest part it's when I don't understand what he wants. Sometimes one second he wants something and then he doesn't want it anymore.
The amazing thing is how I don't hear about "the terrible twos" here in Uruguay (South America). Each time I try to tell other mamas here about this they don't understand what I'm talking about. I'm starting to believe that "the terrible twos" is something that only happen in the US. Do you know? -
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 3:39 PMI'm betting a lot of the negative labels don't follow kids worldwide.
But the f*** you threes--that's funny--probably why my mom put me in pre-school at that age. -
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 3:50 PMMy husband claims there is no PMS in Italy (where he is from). So maybe the terrible 2's are American too? Although if Italian women really don't get PMS, I want to know their secret! :) -
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 4:03 PMIt could be the same reason why French women aren't fat--diet with more natural ingredients (no growth hormones in everything they eat, etc.), more walking throughout the day.
Or it could be that men know to give their women some space around that time.
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 9:43 PMOr maybe Italian women just don't talk about PMS in mixed company. That is the way in many places around the world when it comes to female issues. Plus the US is a land of TMI and labeling every emotion and action. Kids in Latin America aren't any different at two than American kids - trust me growing up in Mexico I saw plenty of two year olds acting like two year olds - it is just that we label and discuss everything here. -
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 5:06 AM" ... it is just that we label and discuss everything here. "
i also think that we, as a nation, are very unaccepting of natural, normal behavior in children ... we blow them off, as if their feelings don't matter, and want them to behave as if they are 3' adults. it's weird, and detrimental. -
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 6:47 AMTrue that! We operate under the "children should be seen and not heard" adage.
Case in point. I took my son when I went to get a flu shot. There was a boy a couple months younger than mine sitting on his mom's lap with a pacifier just hanging out. My little one ran around the joint checking things out, going up to all the little girls and smiling at them, showing them his dinosaur puppet. He was being lovely, cheerful, and exuberant, in my opinion--no fussing even when I redirected him away from where they were doing the shots.
The woman at the front desk said about the pacifier kid, "Oh, look how good he's being, just sitting there, as quiet as can be." A minute later she commented on my son, "He certainly is into everything isn't he," with a note of disapproval. He wasn't hurting anything, just exploring a new space and meeting new people. But, the expectation we have is kids should just shut up and sit down all the time.
After reading Raising Your Spirited Child (which I highly recommend) I'm much more aware of labels. -
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 6:51 AMOh, and my response to the nurse was a proud, "Yes, he's a great explorer!"
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 4:12 PMi like your reply to the nurse's comment.
solomon will be 3 in one week (eep!) & he is extremely social. he goes out into the world every day, weather permitting, either with his dad while i'm working, or with me on my days off. everyone seems to respond favorably to his attention, most people seem to enjoy interacting with him & i get, "wow, he's so well spoken/smart" almost every time. he greets people, asks them what their name is, engages them in conversation... i wouldn't change a moment of it. i love how outgoing he is. i can only hope that we can get through 3 together. the last few months have seen their share of confrontations, but i'm trying a few different tactics to make our relationship stronger. -
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 5:35 PMI wonder too how much the personality of the parents figure into all this and how much ego the parents put into their interactions with their child, especially in public. I'm often surprised by how many people actually think their child's every action reflects something about them and their parenting. And it seems like as a result when their child does something that to the kid feels totally natural but to the parent feels like conflict or embarrasses them then the parents then end up trying to control the situation and the child more when maybe they don't need controlling because they're just being a two year old or three year old.
For me personally year two was sometimes frustrating not so much because of the battle of wills but because of the inability to communicate clearly. Now that we have moved past that I find moving into three to be quite pleasant. We still have battles of will but the fact that he can tell me what he is upset about and we can negotiate and communicate two ways makes it so much easier even if he is in a fuck you mood. My husband on the other hand gets really irked by the fuck you attitude and I find I have to remind him to not take it personally -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 7:13 PMWith Emma I found the 2's to be quite pleasant. She was so happy to run, play and was very cooperative. When she hit three I'm not sure what happened. She just hit a wall of some kind internally. She threw some DOOZY tantrums that I have never ever seen in any of my other two children. It was quite unbelievable and I'm so grateful I had been a nanny before to a child that was spirited because I knew somewhat how to deal with it. She was pretty fussy as an infant and needed lots of stimulation, but when she turned 2 she became somewhat self sufficient and it was so nice compared to her previously fussy state. Once she found her words at 2 she could tell me what she wanted...even if it was just a drink, a snack, or to go outside. I'm not sure what happened at 3 but it was like a demon came alive inside of her and unleashed. I was very perplexed. Her dad and I were at a loss. But, once she turned 4 it all started to calm down and she was very pleasant, fun, cooperative and reasonable once again. She was just very SURE of what she wanted and when she wanted it. She still threw a few doozies once in awhile but it wasn't like before. Now, she's 9 and I can't remember the last time she really put up a stink. She's an excellent student, loves sports, and is a loyal friend. I couldn't be prouder of her and I think she'll excel at whatever she chooses to do with her life.
As far as parents putting their ego into their interactions with their children, I would have to disagree. I think it's presumptuous to make such accusations about people just from observing them at the park. (Or even a family member or close friend) Parenting is something that has to be learned and everyone makes gigantic mistakes. (me included) Every child is different and has different needs depending on where they are in their development. And adults in this country are at a disadvantage because of the work ethic and choices we're forced into here. (long hours, expensive housing/food, etc) It's tough times with the recession and all, too. So many people have lost their jobs and have nowhere to turn. People are frantic and I'm sure their parenting skills are like a short fuse.
I'm just picking up on alot of judgment in this thread and it makes me very uncomfortable. yeah yeah...then I shouldn't read it...BUT, if there's someone here struggling with their parenting choices and they have a concern or question, and they read this thread, they might feel judged and run. I know I would. -
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 7:50 PMMy judgment was more about how people will view my child negatively because he's not sitting still and being quiet. If another kid is, so what, maybe they're tired or shy or whatever. But I was peeved that a nurse insinuated my kid was not being good just because he was being an active toddler. I wasn't trying to put down the other mom, but more make the point that our society, descended from the British traditions, is that kids should sit down, be quiet, and not get in anyone's way. That's totally against every instinct most toddlers have.
I agree though that some parents put our egos into how our children behave because I know I totally have, but I'm trying to get past the whole constantly feeling judged by others thing. -
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 6:38 AM" ... but I'm trying to get past the whole constantly feeling judged by others thing. "
oh, K, i'm sorry you are still feeling this way. does it help at all to realize that no matter what, someone is always going to judge you, whether you're aware of it or not? it could be your clothing choices, what your model of car says about you or your parenting style. there is so much more in life than worrying about what other people have to think, or say.
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 10:30 AMWasn't looking for pity, but just more pointing out the reality of the situation that I think all of us, to some degree, have some self-consciousness about what others think about our mothering skills. -
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 9:18 PMi wasn't offering pity. -
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 8:51 AMreading this all together, it seems some people might have had some bad days and been overly sensitive. The post that everyone got mad at to me seemed to be just a " well here is another way to look at things" she felt that people might be getting a little judgemental. She could have been wrong, but the responses were very defensive. It seemed like a counterattack to what was not an attack. I think that everyone had very valid points, it did not have to get so ugly.
I like to come here and see other mama's and how they are dealing with the same problems i am. We have different methods, ideas, and beliefs, but it is all out of a sense of love for our children and the need for community. Offereing different perspectives should be ok.
We are here to support and educate each other.
I am dealing with a very hormonal teen right now, perhaps i am overlysensitive to cattiness.
Please let us be more positive??
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 11:01 AMThanks, Funky. That's pretty much all I wanted to say but I think since I've been pregnant I'm a little hormonal and tend to overreact. I think this should be a safe place for people to come, and read and feel comfortable. There has ALWAYS been people that come in here and read but don't post. This tribe to me has always been a welcoming place full of uplifting advice and happy spirits. If we, as a tiny community, truly want to affect change, we should do it with compassion and open arms, not with criticism. -
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Wed, November 4, 2009 - 1:32 PMThis should also be a safe place to post and not feel judged or criticized for simply sharing a different perspective or idea. Sadly sometimes it feels like one has to walk on eggshells.
I think my comfort and feelings matter too.
It really sucks when it feels like I have to tiptoe around and not say what I feel.
If we have different perspective or ideas then that could be an opportunity to learn more about where we are coming from. Feel free to ask questions. Try doing that before making someone feel like simply sharing their thoughts is wrong.
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 9:56 PM<<As far as parents putting their ego into their interactions with their children, I would have to disagree. I think it's presumptuous to make such accusations about people just from observing them at the park. (Or even a family member or close friend) Parenting is something that has to be learned and everyone makes gigantic mistakes. (me included) Every child is different and has different needs depending on where they are in their development. And adults in this country are at a disadvantage because of the work ethic and choices we're forced into here. (long hours, expensive housing/food, etc) It's tough times with the recession and all, too. So many people have lost their jobs and have nowhere to turn. People are frantic and I'm sure their parenting skills are like a short fuse.
I'm just picking up on alot of judgment in this thread and it makes me very uncomfortable. yeah yeah...then I shouldn't read it...BUT, if there's someone here struggling with their parenting choices and they have a concern or question, and they read this thread, they might feel judged and run. I know I would.>>
Wow! I'm really hoping that is not directed at what I was saying about wondering how ego figures into it because if it is then I really don't think you understood what I was saying at all and I was NOT making any accusations about anyone. Nor was I judging anyone.
Talk about being made to feel uncomfortable.
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 11:56 PMI think I get what you were trying to say. I think, Im just guessing here, that you were saying that some people think that everything their child does, good or bad, is a direct reflection of their parenting, themselves, etc. but sometimes when a kid is doing a certain behavior, its more a reflection of them just being a child rather than who their parents are or what kind of parenting skills they have. Did I get it? -
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 1:32 AMi can almost guarantee you that nobody is reading this thread. not other than the handful of ladies already present, so i don't think we need worry about anyone picking up a judgement vibe. tribe is all but dead... unless you're a belly dancer, swinger or burning man devotee. -
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 12:17 PMEh, I still feel like there was a lot of judgments being made about other parents in this country and I found it unnecessary. What is to gain by placing blame and being so negative towards other parents? That's all I meant and it wasn't just what one person said, it was a combination of how the conversation turned after someone mentioned (don't remember who) that the "terrible two's" are an American thing. -
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 1:24 PMIf another kid isn't as adventurous as mine, I'm not saying they're a bad parent--that's just their kid's personality type. But that doesn't make their kid good and my kid bad.
But yeah, when another person suggests I'm a bad mom because my one-year-old doesn't just sit in a corner and shut up like they want him to, because that's not his personality then I'm going to judge them for judging me and for having such unrealistic expectations for a small child. -
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 1:42 PMAnd it's this very same societal bias that leads to so many kids--especially boys--being put on Ridalin unnecessarily. I know it's something we might come up against ourselves when our son is school-age. So, yeah, I think it's crap the expectations some people have of little kids and if you think that's being judgmental so be it.
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Re: The terrible 2's aren't so bad....
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 2:48 PMThat's also how I read what she was saying.
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