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Goraksha, Kanhapa, and Jalandhara

topic posted Sat, October 10, 2009 - 10:28 AM by  Ryan
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Durgaputra wrote:
"Interesting! In Gorakshpanthi Nath Sampradaya, it was Kanhapa who was banished from the tradition- the same with Jalandharnath( whose has a separate tradition started by him too.

In your opinion is Kanifnath the same as Kanhapa ? There seems to be some regional differences on this."

Howdy Durgaputra,

Would you mind elaborating on Kanhapa being banished ? I'm familiar with the fact that Kanhapa and Jalandhara are said to have founded panths separate from others(and that the status of Kanhapa's path among the 12 main panths is not without controversy), but don't recall any particular "banishment" story. Any details would be appreciated. My own practice owes a great debt to both Kanhapa and Jalandhara.

IMO, Kanifnath is almost certainly the same as Kanhapa based on similarity of both name and of the legends surrounding them. If they were ever truly separate individuals, their stories have become hopelessly conflated to the point that it would be extremely difficult to say much about them as separate people.

Warmest regards on a snowy morning.
Ryan
posted by:
Ryan
Minnesota
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  • Re: Goraksha, Kanhapa, and Jalandhara

    Sat, October 10, 2009 - 11:06 AM
    This is speculation on my part, but I suspect quite strongly the the cakrasamvara tantric lineages preserved by sadhus near Varanasi into the 20th century are from Kanipa's (kanhapa's) branch of the Natha-sampradaya.
  • Re: Goraksha, Kanhapa, and Jalandhara

    Sun, October 11, 2009 - 7:31 AM
    Ryan,
    Howdy! Hot days and cool nights here! I dont remember the story off hand, but will tell you later( after speaking to my Guru-bhais) . Others who were banished were Nimnath and Parasnath( the sons of Shri Matsyendranatha- they became part of the tirthankaras of the Jains) . You would have heard of their story I guess. I however see something more than just a story(the latter) - it is an allegory and more of an instruction as to 'what not to do'.

    Keeping that aside, while we look at the history of sects around the world, there is a lot of dissension exactly over this kind of thing. I may be an ignorant beginner, but to me this does not seem to be an aspect which leads to liberation. The tantras say ' one who considers the Guru to be a human or the mantras to be mere words goes to hell'. Are we not bringing down not just our Gurus but even our Parameshti or root Gurus to the state of a mere human being by concentrating on this ?
  • Re: Goraksha, Kanhapa, and Jalandhara

    Sun, October 11, 2009 - 8:03 AM
    Also on the other tribe( naturally-being a buddhist tribe) the Siddhas are assumed to be buddhists. On the other hand for most of my life, I have been exposed to the purely Hindu siddha tradition( it was only recently that I even became aware of the buddhist siddha tradition). Frankly I have seen little difference in attitude between the various Indian siddha traditions as well as the Tibetean tantrayana tradition.

    Personally, I have found that the tendency to argue and fight about the number of angels that can dance on a needle tip is not exclusive to medieval Christianity- its equivalents are alive and kicking others in every religion. They make me want to wall myself up in a cave and concentrate on my practice :-).

    To put it in terms of yoga, the effect of thinking about such things is the opposite off 'Chitta vritti nirutta' . Sorry if that was a rant, but it helped my chitta vritti come down a bit.

    Jaya Devi Durge
    • Re: Goraksha, Kanhapa, and Jalandhara

      Sun, October 11, 2009 - 9:11 AM
      Durgaputra,

      You started this discussion basically and trying to bifurcate now! What is this? If you believe in Chittavrittinirodha then you should not at all participate in this discussion board. For your good don't do anything half-heartedly. Discussion and debates are part and parcel of development of intellect and right views. So, to escape a situation in the discussion already created by you, if you yourself bifurcate, it disrespects others putting their mindfulness into it. I personally answered your question in a personal mail and still after reading your posts today I feel like posting it back in the discussion. I think you will not mind for the repetition for the sharing of other friends. I received your personal post this moment and respect your nishthha thereof.

      Kanifnath and Kanhapa is the same person. Kanhanath being disciple of Jalandharnath and Jalandharnath being disciple of Matsyendranath and elder gurubrother to Gorakhnath, Gorakhnath has no authority over either Jalandhar or Kanha. Gorakhnath was banished from the Aghoranatha Sampradaya for his audacity of trying to teach the Guru and elder guru-brothers from just a rudimentary level of accomplishment and was licensed only to teach the Tirthikas of the Adinath sampradaya who lost their lineages and indulged in wrong views and practices in course of time. The neo Natha Sampradaya starting from Sayambhunatha renewed the systems and need every strict disciplines to maintain proper lineages. Matsyendranataha fecilitated the pravrittimarga shown to Him by His Guru Lord Swayambhunatha which was incomprehensible by young Gorakh. He started finding fault with guruand other elders out of his alpa-vidya-bhayankari nature. In an historical congregation he was punished by Matsyendranath by Kanphatti like no better than a cow, him being a cowherdin profession and was termed as darshani or 'outer-show'. Since then he was chosen a guru bylesser tirthikas. This is why Siddhasa (Samyemonastery) of Kailasha (Tibet) does not allow Kanphattas/ Darsanis to enter. In course of time heratic stories grew and corrupted the real history of the Natha system by Garakhnathis by creating enough false myths. If you go through lama Taranath's History of the Natha tradition you will get clear picture of the reality. Many original texts of Natha sampradaya were all taken to Samye Monastery by Atisha Dipankara when Nalanda was put to fire by Hindu crusaders at the fall of the Pala dynasty and rise of theSenas. This was how Vajrayana was butchered away from India and today it only survives in some rare Aghoranatha lineages of which I belong to. Baba Ramnath Aghori brought out this real history in late19th century and tried to apply the old system in Natha order Himself being the head of the Natha Sampradaya at mid 20th century in His time but was stopped by his own disciple king Virendra for Hindu politics. The king was punished with a curse by the Master declaring the end of him in his own sons handand end of Nepal monarchy. I am His successor in the lineage and with such responsibility rendering you this understanding.

      Shaivites-Shakties and Buddhists joined together in Kaivartaviplaba in 8th century A.D. out of which Vajrayana appeared. If Hindus are Non-Vedics then of course Natha sampradaya is Hindu. Academically and according to Indian Law and constitution Hindus are Vedics. Otherwise Nathasampradaya should be recognised as Shivite=Shaktite-Buddhist because the utmost principle of the vedas are superseded by Navanatha order putting Sunyata over Brahmajnana. A Vedic will call such nastika. Shiva has called Brahman as maya in Shivasamhita.

      Parasnath, the Jaina Tirthankara is much earlier in history than Gorakhnath. Gorakhnath has been around late 8th cen. While Mahavira, the last Tirthankara was contemporary to Gautama Buddha. Parasnath was far earlier to Mahavira. Where was Gorakhnath then? How heretic stories jeopardize history can be traced from this. Jains also had a Natha system, consider that also. Faith is great but search of truth is greater!

      Love...................Kulavadhuta Satpurananda.........................................
      • Re: Goraksha, Kanhapa, and Jalandhara

        Sun, October 11, 2009 - 11:31 AM
        Kulavadhuta,
        As mentioned earlier, I am not interested in listening to this kind of stuff. What I dont like is the kind of unpleasantness created by your post . I mailed you precisely since I wanted to have discussion and not argument and name calling like you do. You seem to be calling my parampara names and I have to say that it is not nice at all. Dont hide it by using some other words. You do realise that you are disrespecting my parampara in your post and then you accuse me of disrespecting your mindfulness.

        Since my Guru parampara does not agree with your account , I have to say that your Guru parampara is Wrong. Tantra went from Hinduism to Vajrayana and any amount of sophistry is not going to change that fact. You seem to be unaware of the Siddha parampara of the south of India as well.

        So once again- I am interested in discussion - not sectarian riots on this board. I dont come here to fight or to listen to others maligning my Gurus. If you want me to argue with you on this and still dont get the message, I am still not interested in arguing with you. I dont want to stoop to name calling like you have.
      • Re: Goraksha, Kanhapa, and Jalandhara

        Sun, October 11, 2009 - 11:54 AM
        Kulavadhuta,
        There are many logical and factual inconsistencies in your posting, other than what I wrote about. But it is not up to me to correct you or argue. You have your Gurus and parampara and you are their responsibility. I am here for helping my own sadhana and such arguments are mostly a waste of energy.
        If you wish to post further on this, please feel free... I am not bound by this discussion and will not be returning to this thread.
        • Re: Goraksha, Kanhapa, and Jalandhara

          Sun, October 11, 2009 - 9:10 PM
          Researchers, Durgaputra, are not interested in just Parampara but truth.

          I have not insulted your parampara by any means of my intention or knowledge. You yourself brought up this discussion. I just mentioned my research findings. I am equally a nath Sampradayi as you and you have the responsibilities to check upon what I say with your authorities including the status of Baba Ramnath Aghori. I don't think you are a vajroli practitioner. If so you will know the differences between Aghoranatha order and Darshananinatha order. The rare manuscripts of the siddhas teachings are still lying in Nepal Raj Library for your checking. Researchers will look forward to texts rather than just stories.

          It is true that i am not very knowledgeable about South Indian traditions of siddhas, but in the last National seminar in Hyderabad siddhacharyars from both North and South came together and discussed about the historicity of many myths and beliefs among which Gorakhnath order came. Where we ended up with our findings are these what i have reffered to. I f you raelly find any inconsistency or wrong information regarding what I am saying please reffer, so that a lot of realisation will come up in both our parts keeping aside dogmas.

          As per rule of Natha parampara check please answer these Gorakhnathi lineage questions:

          What is your yogpat?
          What is your prempat?
          What is your kula?
          What is your akhara?
          What is your tilla?
          What is your pirgadi?
          What is your gharana?
          What is your nadi?

          Adesh!
        • Re: Goraksha, Kanhapa, and Jalandhara

          Mon, March 29, 2010 - 3:34 PM
          Jai Shiva Goraksha, Alakh Niranjan.

          It is unthinkable and really strange to read not devout praise but insulting words for such a spiritual giant like mahayogi Gorakhnath! I may be an ignorant little ant, a nobody, but great masters like Adi Shankaracharya, Padmapada, Tulsidas, Guru Nanak, Sant Gyaneshwar have praised Gorakhnath. Their compositions are living proof and enough to understand the incalculable merit and spiritual brilliance of Gorakhnath.

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