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Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

topic posted Mon, April 19, 2010 - 1:40 PM by  Amitabha
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Aghori Sadhus are very rarely to be found. There are only about a handful of 1500 in the total 1.2 Billion population of India. Most hindus are afraid of Aghoris. These Aghoris are not actually violent but are known to consume corpses of humans or dogs, etc. when they can find it. They dont hurt or kill anyone. By inspiring fear in the minds of worldly men, they keep them at bay and do austerities in secret and indeed for a good reason. An Aghori tries to destroy all fear, hatred, fondness, greed, anger present inside the mind.

In Aghora, the adepts attain mastery over the components of the universe; the 5 mahabhutas ie., earth, water, fire, air and Akasha. They also understand the vital force Prana from inside out and energies that are even more subtle. They become the students of Mahashakti (Mother Nature) and play with the universal laws like a small child plays with toys! They transmute elements as if its a funny game. Ordinary men cannot understand their ways and are afraid and disgusted by them. The Aghoris are shy and keep away from the world of men. They stay in remote mountain caves, dense tiger infested forests, Cremation grounds and desolate river banks. Verily they are a cult steeped in mystery. Very few sadhus dare to tread this path, for its a closed tradition and they guard their secrets well. Very few people of this world have met adept Aghori Yogis. So little of them is known except their strange power and horrendous lifestyle.

Yogiraj Gambhir Nath is a legend from the nineteenth century. He was the most powerful yogi during his lifetime. According to Sant Vijayakrishna Goswami, Gambhirnathji could create and destroy this universe in the blink of an eye. Numerous miracles are known to be performed by him, including giving life to a dead devotee. He was the embodiment of kindness and devotion to God. He didnt wear silken clothes because numerous silkworms are boiled to death during it's manufacture. And he lived the life of a pauper even though he was the President of the gigantic Natha tradition. He was devoid of arrogance and pride. What very few people know is that, in his youth, Gambhirnath had been an Aghori.

When Yogiraj Visuddhananda was a little boy, he was taken to Gyangunj for initiation. After initiation from Maha_Rishi Mahatapa, he was taken to the place where Yogi Gambhirnath had set his Asana (seat) for blessing. Gambhirnath spoke very little. He awoke form samadhi, opened his merciful eyes, looked once at the boy and said, "OK, good." And instantly entered samadhi again. [taken from the record of Swami Visuddhananda]
Visuddhananda Paramhamsa became a legend in the field of Surya Science. He could transmute elements and create anything, even a living being by the power of his Yoga and solar science. He was not an Aghori but a Tantrik Yogi of the first order. He was very kind and wise and could openly perform unthinkable miracles. Once he opened his navel and displayed the Manipur Lotus to his devotees and students. His accounts can be found in Visuddhananda Prasanga and Yogirajadhiraj. He became a Paramhamsa yogi, as great as the legendary Rishis of yore. He was a rare adept in many fields simultaneously; his prowess is unequalled in Yoga, Tantra, Solar Science and Mantra Science. He walked with equal ease in both Hatha and Raja Yoga. He was the spiritual brother ( Gurubhai ) of Kutupananda or, Rishi Kauthumi ( Kooti Hoomi ), the Guru of Madame Blavatsky and Colonel Henry Olcott. [Rishi Kutupananda has mentioned students of foreign origin in a letter to Yogi Vishuddhananda. ]

When Sant Bijoykrishna Goswami ( Vijayakrishna Goswami ) was searching for a true Guru (yoga master), he met Yogi Gambhirnath in a mountain cave. A young chela (student) Aghori sadhu, who looked very fierce in appearence was guarding the cave. [Taken from the Diary of Kuladananda Brahmachari 1900AD] His job was to ward off inquisitive worldly people who disturbed the adept's austerities. The chela threw pebbles at Vijaykrishna and his friend, but never actually hitting them and shouted ferociously. The friend ran away to save himself, but Vijayakrishna advanced. Finding the latter to be fearless and stubborn, the chela was very pleased. He offered Vijaya some prasadam(holy food offered to God) which to Vijaya's utter shock was a half burnt human palm! Vijaya declined and was taken inside the cave. Inside he saw a one of a kind sight.

On four sides sat 4 adepts in their respective asanas. They had their own dhoonis (holy fire) and were incessantly engaged in sadhana. All of them were from a different religious tradition and have become one in adepthood. They have lost all personal weakness and pride and were just children of One Single God. One of these adepts were Yogiraj Gambhirnath, another was a Ramaeth Vaishnava Sant, another a Nanakshahi Sikh Mahatma and the fourth was a Sufi Muslim Sage. Its so strange to see that the Mahatmas have reconciled their difference of paths and were worshipping God togather. Gambhirnathji told young Vijaya that he was not his Guru, for such is the will of God. But he taught Vijaya Ajapa pranayama; Vijayakrishna Goswami was taught the same pranayama years later by his Guru and he understood the importance of it 20 years after meeting Gambhirnath. Bijoykrishna Goswami became a famous adept of the Vaishnava Tradition. He was like a Rishi, he spent almost 16 hours in samadhi. It is said that after he was posioned to death, he reentered his own corpse and maintained his life for a few more weeks to end his earthly Karma. He was not an Aghori, by the way.

Aghori is a branch of the Nath Yoga cult. Yogiraj Guru Gorakh Nath arranged the yogis into 12 orders. They are: Kanphat, Aoghar, Machendra, Bhartrihari, Sarangi, Durihar, Kanipa (Kanifnath), Rampanthi, Siddhi-Kerani, Aghori, Yogini and Sanyogi. There is a 13th muslim branch called Ardhyogi.Main pilgrimages of the Nath tradition are: Gorakhpur, Kajli, Peshawar (Pakistan), Dwarka, Haridwar, Pasupatinath (Nepal), Damdama (Kolkata) Mahanaad Jateshwar Temple (Hoogli), Kapildhara (Gaya), Nath Tilla, Mount Ar (Gujarat).

There is a misconception that the legendary sage Trailinga swami of Varanasi was an Aghori. Tailanga Swami was not an Aghori. His real name was Hitlal Mishra, he was the disciple of Swami Bhagirath Saraswati. His monkhood name was Swami Ganapati Saraswati. Had he been an Aghori, he would have been in the Nath Order. He was a fully realised Shaiva Yogi. (a devotee of Shiva) He was well versed in the scriptures and was an adept Hathayogi, Rajayogi and Rasayanik (alchemist). He could transmute matter from one form to another. He once lifted a 1 ton Shiva Lingam from the Ganges and planted (put Life force inside it) in his single room Ashram in Kashi. He was a very huge man and was often seen floating in padmasana, completely nude in the Ganges. When he was doing austerities in the bank of river Narmada and wanted to drink it's water, the whole river turned to milk. Khaki Baba, another yogi witnessed this miracle. Sri Ramakrishna Paramhansa, Yogiraj ShyamaCharan Lahiri, Bama Khepa, Yogiraj Lokenath Brahmachari & Bijoykrishna Goswami met him in his 250 years lifetime. All these facts can be proved from the records of the aforesaid holymen.
Being a devotee of Shiva is different from being an Aghori. There are innumerable subclasses among Shiva worshippers. They are broadly divided into the Right Path ( Dakshina Achara ) and the Left Path ( Vama Achara ). Along the Right path, walk the the Rudradhyai Vedic, Swetashwetara Upanishad Rishis, Patanjal, Raja Yogi, Hatha Yogi and common devotees. The Left path is reserved by the terrible Aghori, Kapalik, Tantrik sadhus. The attitude, sense of sanctity, austerities, mantras and behaviors are radically different between the Right and the Left.

When I was a boy, I met a remarkable sadhu in Rajgir, Bihar, near the hotspring. He was almost 7 feet in height and very strongly built. He looked amazingly nimble for a 50 year old. He was wearing a garland of Rudraksha beads alternating with bones from the human vertibral column; he was unclad except for a small cloth around his loins. He had grey hair cut short on his head. I looked at him in awe ( because he radiated a magnetic personality ) and asked what kind of a sadhu he was. He looked at me kindly and said, "Mai AghorNath hoon, beta." (I am an Aghor Nath, my son.). Only after I heard the word "Aghori" and saw the bones, that I felt a little nervous; otherwise he was quite kind and gentle in his manners.
posted by:
Amitabha
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  • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

    Thu, May 6, 2010 - 11:33 PM
    Dear Friend,
    1. You wrote, "Trailinga swami of Varanasi was an Aghori. Tailanga Swami was not an Aghori. His real name was Hitlal Mishra, he was the disciple of Swami Bhagirath Saraswati. His monkhood name was Swami Ganapati Saraswati".

    Can you please tell me the source of your information?

    2. You also mentioned, "There are innumerable subclasses among Shiva worshippers. They are broadly divided into the Right Path ( Dakshina Achara ) and the Left Path ( Vama Achara )".

    I want to add something more. There is another path which is in between these two and that is Kula-Achara, the middle path. The Aghories enter to the Middle path through the Left Path in the Avadhoota Krama.

    3. Not necessarily all the Tantrika Sadhus are Vamachari, they are Dakshinachari and Kulachari too.

    4. You also mentioned, "Yogiraj Guru Gorakh Nath arranged the yogis into 12 orders". Its not true. From where you got that information?

    Jai Guru
    • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

      Thu, May 13, 2010 - 2:06 AM
      (1) Source on Trailinga Swami: "Sri Sri Sadguru Sanga", the diary of Kuladananda Brahmachari, disciple of Sri BijoyKrishna Goswami

      (2) Aghori sadhus are strictly Vamachari, travellers of the Left hand path.

      (3) Tantra is broadly divided into 7 acharas, or, behavioral patterns.
      (a) Veda-achara
      (b) Vaishnava-achara
      (c) Shaiva-achara
      (d) Dakshina-achara
      (e) Vama-achara
      (f) Siddhanta-achara
      (g) Kaula-achara

      Sometimes, these paths criss-cross and fuse with one another in certain traditions.
      There is another path, very rarely walked on and understood. This path is for very advanced sadhakas.
      It combines Vedanta, Raja Yoga, Kundalini Yoga and devotion. One's intellect must be razor sharp to grasp the teachings. Adi Shankarachrya described this path of Sri Vidya and Madhu Vidya in his works, Saundarya Lahari (Wave of Beauty) & Ananda Lahari (Wave of Bliss). The Sri yantra is shown here in two types of motion. One is of creation, another takes us to fusion or, dissolution.

      (4) My information on the subdivisions of the Gorakhpanthis are correct. Sources:
      "Mahatma Baba Gambhirnath" by Saradakanta Banerjee.
      "Legends of the Nath Tradition" - Gorakhpur Matt.

      Saradakanta Banerjee collected his data directly from the Great Yogiraj Gambhirnath.
      • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

        Mon, May 17, 2010 - 3:16 AM
        Dear friend,

        1. Thanks a lot for the information.

        2. Its true that the Agoris (in the Aghor natha lineage) follow the Vama Marga but, as I mentioned, they follow Kula marga in the Avadhuta Krama. I dont know what you understand about the Vama marga or Kula Marga. In the Dakshina, Vama and Kula marga the nadis are different.

        3. Ya I have seen that sever acharas in the Kularnava Tantra. But I think, this classification is not proper. Do you think Veda Achara is the worst Achara??????????? In my personal experience I have seen that the Vaisnava (Sahajiya Vaisnavas and the Bauls both), Shaiva and the Kaula practices goes ultimately on the path of the Voidness or Sahaja. So they are in equal to me. I saw some different set of Acharas, like:
        a. Pashyachara
        b. Virachara
        c. Divyachara

        OR

        a. Pashyachara
        b. Virachara
        c. Divyachara
        d. Siddyantachara
        e. Gujyachara
        f. Kulachara
        g. Swecchhachara

        Now what you will follow??????????????????????????????????????
        But I wrote something different. I write about the three different paths of the Tantra. Dakshinachara, Vamachara and Kulachara where the nadis are different.

        Tantra is a complete path, if someone practice it properly there is no need of the others. Persons like Adi Sankaracharya corrupted tantra by trying to mix it with the other paths. The present Sri Yantra is not proper. If you see the yantra properly you will find that there is no balance in the middle of it, as the triangles are not equilateral. I am in search for the proper Sri Yantra.

        4. History did not support your information. Aghor natha Lineage is prior to Gorakshanatha. He is the guru of only Hatha Yoga. See the book of Lama Taranath. Kanifnath was the elder guru brother of Goraksha, so how can he create this lineage too??????????And same for the others too. He is the guru of the Kanphats............

        and lastly, but not the least, any writing on the great Aghoris can not be completed withour baba Kenaram Aghori of Kashi and Baba Vyom ShankarNath Aghori of Vakreswar.....................

        Om Hroum Aghoray Namah...................
        Om Nama Shivay, Aghoreswaray-Aghor rupay-Aghor Nathay Namoh Namah..........................


        Joy Guru
        • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

          Mon, May 24, 2010 - 1:52 AM
          Banibrata: ". I saw some different set of Acharas, like:
          a. Pashyachara
          b. Virachara
          c. Divyachara "

          Amitabha: May I Correct you Banibrata? Those 3 are not Acharas, my friend, but they are Bhavas. Bhava is the mental maturity, emotional make-up. Its not a behavioral pattern (Achara).
          Rudra-Yamala:
          "Shakti pradhanyat Bhavanam Trayanam sadhakasya cha.
          Divya Vira Pashunam cha Bhava Trayam Udahritam." meaning: according to the capacity of the sadhaka, there are three Bhavas (mental natures), viz, Divya, Vira and Pashu. (highest to the lowest).
          Divya = Divine
          Vira = Warrior
          Pashu = animal or, less matured or, evolved.

          Vedachara is the tantrik path that advises caution and restraint. Its for the good of the sadhaka with lesser mental strength and lesser conquest over shame, disgust and fear (lajja ghrina Bhay). Its not the "worst" path. Its just compatible with some people's nature, thats all. Those who are very strong minded can move on to Siddhantachara and Vamachara, for these are Vira Bhava paths. And the magnificent levels of Divya-divine can be reached by those walking the Kaula route. All the vedachara, vaishnavachara, shaiva, dakshina belong to Pashubhava.

          Who says Gorakhnath didnt organize or, assemble these sects togather? Taranath's manuscript? Who is he? Nothing!
          Anybody can write what he pleases on great sages. Consider the volumes written against Christianity, Islam, Hinduism. They are quite thick! But never the less, they are worthless!!!

          Gorakhnath is the origin of Laya-yoga, Hatha-yoga, Ajapa sadhana, Mantra yoga, several tantras. Most of the sabar mantras vouch on Gorakhnath. He is an ageless yogi, many thousands of years old.
          He is not from our time of Kali era, but from Treta era, before Rama.
          From: Goraksha Parichay:
          "Adinath ka nati,
          Machchindar ka put,
          Mai Yogi Gorakh Avadhoot."
          meaning: I am the grand disciple of Adinath Shiva. I am the direct disciple of Machchendranath. I am a Yogi hermit and my name is Goraksha. He is one of the nine maha-siddhas: navanath of the nath lineage.

          It is true that Kanifnath is the guru-bhai of Gorakhnath, but that doesnt disprove his being the Guru of the Aghors.
          Several cults arise, gradually rise to supremacy of power and knowledge and then, again fall and disappear due to impurities and horrendous practices getting imbued in them. At one time drinking the nectar from the sahasrara chakra (Khechari) became symbolic with drinking from the skull. Certain stupid Kapalikas and Aghoris started killing for skulls and gave a bad name to the cult. Some Aghoris eat human flesh even to this day. People are horrified by such cannibalism. So aghoris are disappearing nowadays. But genuine siddha aghoris are truely magnificent in power and knowledge. Example: Yogi Gambhirnath.

          Some Baul panthis started consuming menstrual fluid, urine and faeces! This strange practice alienated them from the human mainstream. Perhaps they tried to conquer their disgust and aversion! But there are other decent ways to do that.
          • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

            Mon, May 31, 2010 - 8:21 PM
            Bhava is in mind and achara is in workability. Those who are mis-conducted between working out and thinking sees bhava and achara as different. The Vedachara is tantrik, to support this have the responsibility to coat from specific sukta of any of the four Vedas, please. Don't go on dictating without enough substantial records.

            Where do you get Gorakhnath is of Treta yuga? Which system of time you are speaking of to ascertain a yuga? Keep your beliefs in your pocket before correcting people who are working with tangible manuscripts. If Taranatha is worthless your description of Gambhirnathji is also worthless because they fall on the same logic that you are implementing.

            Go through Vaisajya texts and see what you call cannibalism is a part of rasarasayana.

            Kanhapa has been historically asserted as a late 8th century personality. He is disciple of Jalandharnath and Jalandhar is disciple of Matsyendranath. Matsyendranathy is disciple of Swayambhunath. Swayambhunath was born in 693 A.D. Adinatha hsa n o Historical evidence yet except in puranas where time is an elastic factor. Are you discerning from scientific aging and dating of texts and languages or going by your stories? Adinatha is reffered to Agamas as well as Tantras and thus we BELIEVE in the pre-Swayambhunatha tradition of Adinatha. no text has been assigned to Adinath except oral teaching still accepted in historicity. How is Gorakhnath traveling from Adinatha era which is pre-Ramayana to in and around 8th-9th cen by your faith-fueled time-machine must be? Another thing, were your Gorakhnath speaking Hindi in time of Adinatha or Matsyendranatha?

            Rudrayamala speaks of Buddha and Chinachara. How a text of older origin than Buddha's time can speak of Buddhas performances? Are you a Dharma -dreamer?

            We love sometimes these cartoonism of scholarly depicting blind faith and impossibilities. Keep in entertaining us but please don't bore us.

            We are still waiting for your contact to test practically what you have claimed as your yogic siddhis regarding vajroli and others.


            • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

              Tue, June 1, 2010 - 7:52 AM
              Where have I ever claimed to be a Siddha? That is a big word!!!
              Kula, my friend, welcome!
              I have really missed you. Time and again, I wished it was you with your logic instead of Banibrata, who is definitely not as good an adversery in debate as yourself! Your reasonings are sounder, finer and wiser.

              Good then, shall we begin?
              Vajroli, is it? I hear from some of my friends here that you can draw alcohol (whiskey!) through your "male organ"! Great! Well done! You have achieved something! You got me there. I could only draw water a few times and gave up the practice. The reason for abandonment was the horrible burning sensation and bleeding. Seems like something went wrong. Also, I had no ambition of extracting Rajo from any woman with Vajroli. And then again, even if one reaches the stage of drawing mercury through the urethra, something remains. One must combine Rajo with semen and pull it upto Sahasrara to become urdhvareta.

              Gorakhnath is not like you and me. He is a Maha-Siddha, a king among Yogis. He achieved immortality thousands of years ago. That is one of the goals of Nath traditions and Kaya-Sadhana. That explains his living upto the present from Treta era. If you cannot swallow my pill, then try the other immortals like Vyasa, Ashwatthama, Markandeya, Hanuman and sages of Gyangunj. I strongly believe that Yogis can defy death.

              What did you say? "Matsyendranath is the disciple of Swayambhunath"? Man, Matsyendranath was the first Guru of the Nath cult! And Adinath is not a man, but Shiva himself! Or, else, you could say that Rishi Dattatreya inspired Matsyendra and had some influence on him. Kanifpa was the disciple of Matsyendranath, and so was Gorakhnath.

              Gorakhnath was already a famous Yogiraj and was many centuries earlier than Adi Shankaracharya. You can find this fact mentioned in Shankara-Digvijaya, in the chapter where Shankara decides to enter the dead body of Raja Amaraka, by para-kaya-pravesha. By the way, Shankaracharya was also proficient in Vajroli.

              Vashistha did take up chinachara during Tara-sadhana after he was convinced by Buddha-Janardana of China. Well, I can only think of 2 reasons in solving this riddle. (a) This Tantrik Buddha Janardana must be someone else from China who attain Bodhi stage thousands of years earlier than Gautama Buddha. Think about this tantrik Buddha's behavior. Its Chinachara. He ate meat and was surrounded with women. Bid Gautama Buddha eat meat, or, did he engage with women? NO, he was a MONK!
              Or, (b) Rudrayamala was composed many centuries after Buddha, in Vajrayana period, probably Pala era. This seems more logical.

              How can I quote Tantra from the Vedas? Vedas are ageless while the word "Tantra" is relatively newer. Although I believe that Tantrik practices were prevalent in the later vedic periods and went by other names(like Prayoga shastras, Atharva veda). Bhargava Ushana Kavi, Rishi Dattatreya and Ravana were Tantriks, thats for sure. This Bhargava came from the Satya era, Dattatreya from Treta and so did Ravana.

              On a friendlier note, can you give me earlier references to Gyangunj?
              I am looking for sources Other than Gopinath Kaviraj, Narayan Datta Srimali (I am skeptical about his books) and recently Tarasish Gangopadhyay(and him too).

              Is Banibrata your disciple?
              • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                Tue, June 1, 2010 - 8:01 AM
                Kula,
                Can you quote or, give the chapter, sloka number of the "Vaisajya text or, rasa-rasayan" that encourages eating human flesh?
                • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                  Tue, June 1, 2010 - 2:37 PM
                  The script that encourages anything should surely be taken with a pinch of salt. If I lived from a literal translation of the bible then I would spend the rest of my life chasing my tail within the contradictions which abound. If I read the bible with awareness I would see the truth that is being spoken about (and very possibly from) a higher consciousness...

                  For instance Jesus is the mortal manifestation of God. Jesus was man. God made man in the image of himself, making both Jesus God and all of us God. So what in us did Jesus represent ? The whole story points towards the consciousness or ego itself, which for "enlightenments" sake must be sacrificed upon the cross. Not only that but it must go through all the suffering of man and the dark night of the soul while there - "oh father why has thou forsaken me ?".

                  What I am saying is look at the bible like a man and chase your tail in the contradictions. Look at it from the state it represents and the truth will make itself clear. Documents condoning cannibalism from an "enlightened" perspective looked at from a man's point of view are about eating each other. From the point of pure consciousness or reality it talks about exploring the dark side of the psyche. No flesh need ever be eaten for the expansion of the psyche but it can be achieved simply from exploring the animalistic nature that you would actually eat itself. Because if you are an "enlightened" being eating flesh, then you are eating yourself because everyone else is really your master and teacher and also everyone else represents elements of your own psyche. And dismembering and consuming yourself is certainly the normal path of man. If as an "enlightened" being you have not explored this element of the psyche then you are kidding yourself. A drugs counsellor that has never taken the drugs that they counsel upon is a joke and a fraud. Yet I bet they never put the drug experiences that they have had upon their C.V.'s !!! Know what I am saying ?

                  In The Spirit Of The Way...
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                    Fri, June 4, 2010 - 8:37 PM
                    Thank you Zu Li for your excellent illustrations and interpretations.
                    I will add a bit with it by saying, there are secret alchemiy also in Tantra that prescribes such to enhance yoga-perfections. The pouter and the inner to equate is the way of the Tantras.
                    • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                      Sun, June 13, 2010 - 11:11 AM
                      The outer and the inner way the way of the tantras and any alchemy is by its very nature secret. As interpretation of internal energies must pass through the filter of ego before being taken in as energy from the senses of the other person, broken down and re-interpreted by the listener and then passed onto the energ system in its interpreted form. Without discussion and energy contact the understanding that is passed on is highly likely to be mis-interpreted at some juncture. As it is merely intellect conversing with intellect generally. The same as it is for written word. For me all written word from a so called "higher perspective" is merely an indicator that there still may be something for you to explore.

                      However, no instruction can be given to the intellect within the bounds of the search and certainly no true "steps" given. Because it is a search of pure experience. Without an energy connection with the absolute then all is open to interpretation. Many spiritual texts have been taken and religions built up from the interpreted elements (see previous post on the misinterpretations of christianity). Yet the message has been filtered and filtered, even at source because the master will not have written anything and thus immediately filtered by the disciples that scribed it. Thus even "pure" and "original" spiritual texts are far from anything resembling a pure message. When a master speaks they speak to the audience amassed. A different audience would illicit a different message as they have a different energy and require different work ! Contradiction abounds in all text when the subject matter is beyond form. Text itself is form and so the first watering occurs, what one entity sees in one form another sees the opposite, or at the very least...contradiction.

                      So why not talk about practice and reach an understanding ? Instead of arguing over your interpretation of some reinterpretated and formulated text document ? If you have read such documents and come to a complete understanding on all levels, then there is no longer anything to argue about !!!!!!!
                      • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                        Tue, June 15, 2010 - 9:31 PM


                        "even at source because the master will not have written anything and thus immediately filtered by the disciples that scribed it. Thus even "pure" and "original" spiritual texts are far from anything resembling a pure message"

                        -- In the Tantrik system I belong to The Masters write texts, signs the texts, puts date, place, references to the context for the subject matter of the text and sometimes even hand or foot prints for future generations to have confidence on the authenticity of the text being that of the Master Himself. In some cases the scribe takes the dictation checked and signed by the Master with other documentary notes and marks. In cases of such texts manuscripts are preserved through generations. The oral teachings remain secret and only for the lineage disciples to pass over and not discussed outside the lineage. They are supported by practices and experiential reliance in the lineage. They can be misinterpreted by people outside the lineage without the experience of the instructions to support the oral teachings.

                        "So why not talk about practice and reach an understanding ? Instead of arguing over your interpretation of some reinterpretated and formulated text document ? If you have read such documents and come to a complete understanding on all levels, then there is no longer anything to argue about !!!!!!! "

                        -- When we discuss we keep the subject on the matter of discussion. If practice was the issue with the thread I would have discussed it. Argument is about the scrutiny of facts rather in the texual way supported by practical experiences. Don't you think that "there is no longer anything to argue about !!!!!!! " is another argument from your part?

                        We are all in words out here while practice is a direct experience. So long the intellectual discussion board is there and all of us are participating, why play the card of practice, for a better judgment? What if the practices in words are also challenged by words and words carry on?

                        Discussions increase knowledge and render clearer understandings about a subject from various stand points. Some standpoints are argued for further clarity and some stand points are accepted through experiential wisdom while some stand points never get anywhere.
                        • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                          Thu, July 22, 2010 - 2:04 AM
                          Words are mind.

                          Practice is finding out how to drop the mind.

                          Texts, waffle and people expounding theories of which they only have intellectual understanding instead of actual direct experience - creates nothing but scholars, identified more strongly with their ego's than prior to taking up their studies. Practice based on text, any text, and not oral & energetic transmission is an ego-centred practice....
                          • Unsu...
                             

                            Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                            Wed, October 12, 2011 - 8:18 PM
                            >> Practice based on text, any text, and not oral & energetic transmission is an ego-centred practice **

                            Name one thing that is not ego-centered.
                            • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                              Thu, October 13, 2011 - 5:04 AM
                              The self, the sense of presence, the "I Am" consciousness. The body's Internal energy system. Anything that is beyond the conditioned mind.

                              There's a few there.....but its all still one thing to me !!!
                              • Unsu...
                                 

                                Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                                Thu, October 13, 2011 - 9:34 PM
                                All those things are known to you by way of your conditioned mind, and it was by your conditioned mind that you have shared it with us. Ego has been instrumental every step of the way.
                                • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                                  Fri, October 14, 2011 - 5:51 PM
                                  Nope they aint.

                                  Experience or non-experience and no experiencer experiencing the experience or non-experience.

                                  The centre not-identified with the ego, thoughts, emotions, desires, dreams, attachments, associations or biological energies.

                                  Wu Ji, who me ? Wu Wei man.......
                                  • Unsu...
                                     

                                    Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                                    Sun, October 16, 2011 - 9:25 AM
                                    You've artificially created two categories, things that you think about that are not spiritual, and things that you think about that are spiritual. You make a category mistake by asserting that when you think about things that are spiritual, the brain's ego-function is not involved. In truth, all thought is a function of the ego—regardless of content—because it is only by your sense of being an individual knower that these things are known by you. Egro, ego is involved in all content in the mind, regardless of how you are categorizing that content.
                • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                  Fri, June 4, 2010 - 8:33 PM
                  Nagarjuna Kakshaputam.
                  Aghoravaisajyakrama (Jivakavasya)
                  Hevajra Tantra vaisajya patala
                  Indian Alchemy Or Rasayana by S. Mahdihassan, Motilala Banarasidass Publishers

                  These books do not "encourage eating human flesh" but discuss the procedure of human medicines extracted from dead human body-parts to make various types of exilirs for yogis to enhance their higher sadhanas. They are also metaphoric at the same time. Amitava, what you have remarked about Bauls with bitter ignorance can be traked in the secret teachings of Sri Chaitanya-Nityananda in Sidhhanta Bodhadaya or Swaroop Damodarer Kracha.
              • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                Fri, June 4, 2010 - 8:22 PM

                "I could only draw water a few times and gave up the practice. The reason for abandonment was the horrible burning sensation and bleeding. Seems like something went wrong."

                -- This clearly shows your status to write big-posts in Practical Tantra tribe after all! Empty vessels sounds much!


                " Also, I had no ambition of extracting Rajo from any woman with Vajroli. And then again, even if one reaches the stage of drawing mercury through the urethra, something remains. One must combine Rajo with semen and pull it upto Sahasrara to become urdhvareta."

                -- Vajroli is not copulation. Copulation is called sahajoli. Your first line of the excerpt and the last line are virtually opposite! Are you bi-polar or split-character. In Bengali we say as a proverb," how many fathers are you born of/" which means how many opposite principles you hold on to? First do practice and then speak. A book-full block headed ignorantly speaks.

                "Gorakhnath is not like you and me."

                -- Please speak for yourself and don't try to pull me into your status of being an 'impotent' talker whose practical side is zero..

                " He is a Maha-Siddha, a king among Yogis. He achieved immortality thousands of years ago. That is one of the goals of Nath traditions and Kaya-Sadhana. That explains his living upto the present from Treta era. If you cannot swallow my pill, then try the other immortals like Vyasa, Ashwatthama, Markandeya, Hanuman and sages of Gyangunj. I strongly believe that Yogis can defy death."

                --Impotents try to live in others' glory and create myths.
                I am not one who lives in myths. I fight myths or decode them.

                "What did you say? "Matsyendranath is the disciple of Swayambhunath"? Man, Matsyendranath was the first Guru of the Nath cult! And Adinath is not a man, but Shiva himself! Or, else, you could say that Rishi Dattatreya inspired Matsyendra and had some influence on him. Kanifpa was the disciple of Matsyendranath, and so was Gorakhnath."

                -- Abhinava Gupta in his Tantraloka claims Swayambhunath ('Shambhu') to be the ultimate Guru of Navanatha Tradition or the
                Kaulakrama which is 8th century onwards and also known in the name of Vajrayana. Matsyendra Samhita (Calcutta Asiatic Society Publication) also claims the same. Nepal's Swayambhu Puran also claims the same. Kanhapa is disciple of Jalandhar and not Matseyendra or disciple of a disciple is disciple also in the traditional view if one has taken teachings and empowerment from the Paramaguru. Natha tradition admits that.
                Adinatha is Rishava. He is known by both the names. All the panchagama (Shaiva-Shakta-Vaishnava-Jaina-Bouddha) texts claim Him to be the originator. Except the Puranas the other source is Jain literature where His reference have been said by Mahavira in the section of Avadhuta / Nirdhuta in a much much later period in history. Many incomplete searchers confuses Adinatha Krama with Navanatha Krama or they do time collage.
                Keep your ignorant arrogance in your pocket before you speak in public and make comments that shows your frame.


                "Gorakhnath was already a famous Yogiraj and was many centuries earlier than Adi Shankaracharya. You can find this fact mentioned in Shankara-Digvijaya, in the chapter where Shankara decides to enter the dead body of Raja Amaraka, by para-kaya-pravesha. By the way, Shankaracharya was also proficient in Vajroli."

                -- By the Bombay national seminar on Shankara some couples of years back ago all the Sankaracharyas and scholars of the realm came to conclusions:

                1. there is no time period assigned to all Shankara vashyas.
                2. there is no time period mentioned in the Sankara system of records available.
                3. Shankara never kept time records of his works.
                4. four different Mathas have four diiferent belifs about Shankara's time and age
                5. Kanchi Kamakoti thinks that Sankara-time should be found only in Buddhist scriptures!!!!!
                6. The linguistic experts find Shankara literature to be not earlier than late eighth to late tenth century Sanskrit style and grammar.


                "Vashistha did take up chinachara during Tara-sadhana after he was convinced by Buddha-Janardana of China. Well, I can only think of 2 reasons in solving this riddle. (a) This Tantrik Buddha Janardana must be someone else from China who attain Bodhi stage thousands of years earlier than Gautama Buddha. Think about this tantrik Buddha's behavior. Its Chinachara. He ate meat and was surrounded with women. Bid Gautama Buddha eat meat, or, did he engage with women? NO, he was a MONK!"

                --Do some field research. Go to Vashishtthashram and go through the folios of the tradition's manuscripts. The 'Vashisttha' of this case is called Vamadevacharya and a much much later Vashisttha seat-holder of Kamarupa order. He can be in Goutama Buddha's time. In digghanikaya, Brahmajwala Sutta check the morals or all the Shilas of monks and yogis and also see that Gautam is shramana as well as Dhuta. A Dhuta is said to be beyond rules in the same section. That He ate meat is found by Vaisajyaguru text.
                Don't confuse between your Hindu monk understanding with the Buddhist understanding. See Kalachakra Laghu Tantra.


                "Or, (b) Rudrayamala was composed many centuries after Buddha, in Vajrayana period, probably Pala era. This seems more logical."

                -- Have a deeper look and settle down in one of the two opposite assumptions to cure yourself from intellectual bi-polarity. If Rudrayamala comes from Pala Era a lot of Buddhist elements have already being entertained. In that case you are speaking opposite to your own prior assertions about Tantra, be aware about your self-confusing assertions.

                "How can I quote Tantra from the Vedas? Vedas are ageless while the word "Tantra" is relatively newer. Although I believe that Tantrik practices were prevalent in the later vedic periods and went by other names(like Prayoga shastras, Atharva veda). Bhargava Ushana Kavi, Rishi Dattatreya and Ravana were Tantriks, thats for sure. This Bhargava came from the Satya era, Dattatreya from Treta and so did Ravana".

                -- How do you assert Vedachara then within Tantra by prakshipta shastras (adulterated texts are proved by linguistic experts, myself Iprofessionally work as one) ?
                Again a myth support. Where did you find in Valmiki's Ramayan the term Tantra to assert Ravana as Tantrik?
                Scholars do not go through mythical time system as any record.

                "On a friendlier note, can you give me earlier references to Gyangunj?
                I am looking for sources Other than Gopinath Kaviraj, Narayan Datta Srimali (I am skeptical about his books) and recently Tarasish Gangopadhyay(and him too)."

                -- In Benaras I have came across some books in Visuddhananda ashram library apart from Gopinath Kaviraj's. Those books have no more modern editions. If you are a real searcher you should go there and search, I do not remember the names of those books and their authors anymore. Another South Indian siddha-text recently published, Thirupuranam. That speaks of Mahavatar Babaji and Jnanaganj both. Or write to the ashram to send their catalog of Jnanganj-literature-s.


                "Is Banibrata your disciple?"

                -- Banibrata is not yet my discple, my student. To become my disciple an approach-er have to go through pre-lineage order practices through spanda-dhyana siddhi, kundalini anahata-reach, panchvayu laya vipashyana, amoroli siddhi and kaya -parisuddhis. It takes some three to five years time for a common seeker. After that is the thought of discipleship in the tradition. I have only 6 mantra disciples for definite reasons but they are not lineage-walkers. I don't take disciple anymore.
                Banibrata hails from the one of the most revered Kaula family arenas of oldest Tantrik families of Birbhum. Himself a traditional priest of Kalikula that posseses a lot of early palm-leaf manuscripts that I was studying and that is why he is aquinted with me. He is working in Kolkata Asiatic society and a manuscript reader by traditional quality. His family holds the heritage of Sanskrit scholars as well as high sadhakas. His cousins are in various universities and academic foundations working on Tantrik texts and teachings. He is studying and practicing under my tutelage but not discipleship yet. He also do not go by myths.

                No need of answering because I will not answer your posts probably. It's unnecessary time-loss to talk to a impotent in practice and talking big things with skurachanchalya symptoms.

                Adesh!
                • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                  Tue, June 8, 2010 - 5:50 AM
                  Amitabha to Kula,

                  I have always been truthful about myself. But it seems like, you cannot handle truth and honesty very well. Thats why you cannot deal with a proper argument and become easily agitated and abusive. This shows your degree of self control and "power" very well.

                  If you cannot converse in a civilized manner, it is your problem. I just dont care about praise and abuse, as both are equally worthless. Thank you anyway, for the garland of scorn you have offered me. Have you got some more?

                  ==============="TANGIBLE MANUSCRIPTS", eh??======================
                  LOL!!!! Suddenly Some termite-eaten, tattered, culturally hateful manuscripts of UNKNOWN ORIGIN have become more valuable than the universally acclaimed, Age old treasures of the Vedas, Upanishads, Mahabharata, Patanjai, Hatha Yoga and celebrated Tantric works? How come, mister Kula?

                  And just because some handwritten manuscript is centuries old, does not mean that it is True.
                  Age is not wisdom. There were many liars, fools and rumour-spreaders in bygone ages, who could read and write.

                  The Authenticity of the following Tantric works like Nirvana tantra, Mahanirvana Tantra, Kularnava Tantra, Gyansankalini Tantra, Saradatilak, Srividya, RudraYamal, Vishwasar Tantra, Vartikas, Tantrasara, etc. is far more than the Pasupat, Kapalika, Bhairava tantras, which were ignored by the powerful Tantric masters of that time. Siddha Kapila's Sankhyakarika, Markandeya Puran, Devi Bhagavat Kalikapuran etc. are the origins of so many Valid masterpieces of Tantra! What reason do you put forward to ignore them?

                  In many of the posts you have opined directly against the verdict of Spiritual giants. There are instructions of great Gurus like Vashistha, Yajnavalka, Vyas, Patanjali, Gorakhnath, Buddha, Shankaracharya, Gambhirnath, Ramprasad, Ramakrishna, Vivekananda, etc. How do you imagine them to be wrong?

                  Whenever there is a good measure of similarity with Veda or, Raja Yoga in the Tantras, you call it "doctored" and therefore, corrupted. And when there is cannibalism and consumption of Human brain, menstrual fluid, urine and excreta, you try to quote from Hevajra Tantra and Vaisajya, proving it as the REAL tantra? This is childish, or, perhaps sick!!

                  So, you think I have Bipolar disorder? :p

                  ================================================================
                  Kulavadhut said, "Are you bi-polar or split-character. How many fathers are you born of? First do practice and then speak. impotent' talker whose practical side is zero.."

                  Amitabha Chatterjee:
                  Just because I dont practice Vajroli, doesnt mean that I am zero in Yoga. The main thing in yoga is not an exercise of the genital organ, as you like it to be. What you think as Vajroli Siddhi is just a physical mudra and nothing more. You need to pull the Ojas internally through the Sushumna to Sahasrara Chakra. That is the real Vajroli. Your mudra is limited up to the urethra.

                  This and much more can be achieved by Shaktichalini Mudra, Yoni Mudra and Pranayamas.
                  And ultimately Yoga is about getting divine knowledge through Samadhi. I am getting enough benefit from Atma-jyoti Trataka & Nada yoga, given to me by my Guru Maharaj.

                  I am the disciple of only one Yogiraj Gurudeva Sri Sri Dayababa, not a hybrid of 36 gurus like some people who are confused.
                  Ah, dont worry about my one and only father, he is in good health, thank you.
                  ================================================================


                  If the Bombay National Seminar came to those foolish conclusions, they need to reconsider their knowledge or, ignorance about Adi-Shankaracharya.
                  -=====================================================-
                  ADI SHANKARA's AGE is fixed by the scholars based on the following verses:

                  Nidhi nagebha vahnyabde vibhave Sankarodayah
                  Kalyabde chandranetranka vahnyabde pravisad guham
                  Vaisakhe purnimayam tu sankarah sivatamagat.

                  Meaning, Shakara was born in Kaliyuga, nidhi 9, naga 8, ibha 8, vahni 3. So, this arrives at 3889 Kali abda. Kaliyuga is considered to have started in 3102 BC as standard dating. This brings Adi Shankara's year of birth to be, (3889 - 3102) = 787 AD. Generally scholars all around the world take this date, 787-788AD as the date of birth of Shankara.

                  Now, Shankara lived up to the age of 32 years. So, historically, his lifespan must have been, 788AD to 820AD.
                  ===================================================

                  You claim that the origin of Nath tradition, or, rather Kulakrama tradition is in the 8th century AD by "Swayambhunath". This fact is based on Tantraloka of Abinava Gupta, Matsyendra Samhita and Swayambhu Puran? Quote the verses please.

                  1) This Swayambhunath may be the early Guru of the Kulakrama tradition, but not the NATH tradition. (for Vajrayana, Kulakrama and Nath traditions are not the same.) He must have been a Tantrik yogi who started Kulakrama order. Most of the Tantrik sadhakas get the surname of (-Ananda Nath) after their Purnabhiseka initiation. So, Swayambhu Nath doesnt mean that he is the initiator of the ancient Nath tradition.

                  It is much later that the Kulachara was considered as a feasible "Yoga", while the Nath yoga had been there since aeons! Rudrayamal:
                  Yoga-margam Kaula-margam ek-achara kramam Prabho,
                  Yogi Bhutwa Kulam Dhyatwa sarva Siddhiswaro bhavet.

                  2) Swayambhu, Adideva, Adinath are names of Shiva.
                  Swayambhu = (meaning, Born out of Himself, or, without origin)
                  The Isha Upanishad(verse 8) describes God as, "Kavi-r manishi paribhu SWAYAMBHU."
                  You are confusing a yogi of the 8th century AD named Swayambhunath with the origin of Nath cult, which is Shiva. (My name is Amitabha. That doesnt mean that I am Amitabha Buddha!!)
                  Furthermore, the Hindi monologue of Gorakhnath states clearly origin of the Nath tradition.
                  Adinath--> Matsyendranath---> Gorakhnath.

                  3) If this Swayambhunath started the Nath cult in the 8th century AD, then his grand disciple Gorakhnath must have lived at the same time as Adi-Shankara!!! Why then is it said in Shankara-Digvijaya VERSES 79-88 that Matsyendra and Gorakhnath were very ancient sages of by-gone era?

                  ==================Shankara-Digvijaya VERSES 79-100==============
                  When Adi Shankara declared his decision of entering the dead body of King Amaraka to learn Kama Shastra, his disciple Padmapada put forward the following argument to dissuade him.
                  "There is nothing unknown to you, O Omniscient Guru. Yet out of love and devotion, let me say a few words. Thousands of years ago, in ancient times, a great yogi named Matsyendra, entered the fresh corpse of a dead king, leaving his own body in the care of his disciple yogi Gorakhnath. Gradually the king became immersed in sensual pleasures and the company of women and soon forgot his life as a Yogi. His knowledge of advanced yoga and samadhi was lost in oblivion. Goraksha, when he came to know of his master's sad plight, decided to save him. Gorakhnath carefully preserved his masters body in a hidden cave and appeard in the court of the king, disguised as a dance instructor. He attracted the king's attention and made him remember the yoga of Kaya Sadhana. The memories of Yoga cured the king of his thirst for sense enjoyments. After regaining his lost yogic power, Matsyendra left the king's body and reentered his own. So, beware of the strong irresistable power of sense attraction."
                  To which Shankara replied,
                  "In one, who is immersed in non-duality and dispassion, the desire of pleasure does not arise. The celibacy of one who is established in the yogic practice of Vajroli, remains unbroken. One who is without Samkalpa, may live in samsara and yet be unaffected by it. All fruits of karma are without effect for him, who has realised the world as a mere appearence..... Fear not. Even if I indulge in sexual love in this body, no evil will result from it. But the world may be misled if I set such an example of a monk indulging in sensual pleasure. So, my proposal is to gain the experiences of sex-life through the body of another person, whose dead-body I will enliven temporarily by para-kaya-pravesha."


                  The above verses clearly show a period of thousands of years between the dates of origin of Yogi Gorakhnath and Adi Shankaracharya. So your claim that Kulachari Swayambhunath of the 8th c. AD as the grandmaster of Gorakhnath is proven false.
                  ==================================================================

                  4) Again, the question of dependable source comes up. Your tattered manuscript of an unknown Lama Taranath versus the mahayogi Gambhirnath, whose words are the words of Veda. Yogiraj Gambhirnath has been highly acclaimed by all the greatest spiritual figures of his time, like, Sri Bijoy Krishna Goswami, Sri Nigamananda Saraswati, Sri Ramdas Kathiababa, Sri Visuddhananda Paramhamsa, Sri Bholananda Giri, and may more. Sri Gambhirnath said that seat of Gorakhnath has been on earth, since Treta Yuga. And Gorakhnath is still alive, in Samadhi, in an inaccessible part of earth. The words of a realised sage is a thousand times more dependable than the opinion of some "learned" scholar (which is mostly guesswork).
                  ==================================================================

                  Kulavadhoot, you say that Vashistha of Tarapith is not Rishi Vashistha of yore, but Vamdevacharya, the seat holder of Kamrupa Monastery!
                  You also, Gautama Buddha, the great master of Buddhism regularly ate meat!!! You are unbelievable, you know?

                  Buddha totally abstained from meat eating, owing to his firm belief in "Ahimsa Paramo Dharma". Buddha left his mortal body after he ate meat only once, given in Bhiksha (alms) by an ignorant person. Buddha ate it to prove "yadriccha labha santushta", a monk should be satisfied with whatever he gets. His instructions were to accept anything given in alms without discrimination.

                  The Pali canon NEVER say that Buddha ate flesh in his monkhood years. Instead, he died after accepting alms and eating pork ( Sukara maddhava) from a stupid devotee.

                  Buddha declared the meat trade, a wrong livelihood in Vanijja Sutta, AN 5:177
                  The Nirvana sutta, Shurangama sutta, Brahmajala Sutta, Mahamegha sutta, so on, prohibit flesh eating. Also, many Mahayana Sutras prove that Buddha discouraged the monks from flesh eating, as that goes directly against the nature of the Bodhisattva, which is compassion to all beings and Ahimsa.

                  Angulimaliya Sutta says, just as brother Zu Li has stated here, that since all sentient beings share the same Dhatu, or, spiritual essence, killing and eating another animal violates Ahimsa. In a certain manner, its like eating your own kind, or, cannibalism! Buddha talks about the negetive karmic results of meat-eating in Karma Sutta. Finally, In Mahayana MAHAPARINIRVANA sutta, the last DIRECT instruction of Buddha,
                  on the eve of his death, he said, "Flesh eating extinguishes the very seed of Universal Compassion." He finally forbade the monks from accepting meat, fish in alms. "It should be rejected... ... accepting even meat, fish, birds, bits of meat, left-overs is a misdemeanour... I teach the harm ingrained in meat-eating."

                  So, Gautama Buddha was NOT a meat eater!!!
                  And beyond all arguments, he did NOT entertain the sensual pleasures with women!!!

                  But I am an honest man and a kind one. So, I will help you resolve this riddle.
                  Do not interpret my kindness as not Bi-Polar disorder, as usual, Kula! :D
                  Sage Vashistha, the same as the author of Yoga-Vashistha and the Guru of Rama, could have met another Buddha from earlier times. You see, in ancient Pali canons (D.2.7), it has been said that there were SIX other BUDDHAs before the historical Gautama Buddha. One of them, immediately before Gautama Buddha was known as Kassapa Buddha, his chief disciple was called Bharadvaja.
                  The other Buddhas of ancient times are Konagamana Buddha, Kakusandha(sanskrit Krakucchanda) Buddha and so on. Vashistha could have met anyone of them.

                  Or, it could all be a prakshipta Bullshit (adulterated manuscript). But I doubt this, as Bamakhepa of Tarapith said that the tale of Vashistha is true; and Bamakhepa cannot be wrong, even if all scholars line up against him! Bamakhepa was a Brahmavid Maharshi, his words are Veda vakya for me.
                  ====================================================

                  The existence of VEDACHARA in Tantra is not my invention, dear friend, but the command of Viswasara Tantra and other authentic ones. Here:
                  Vaidikam Vaishnavam Shaivam Dakshinam Pashavam smritam.
                  Siddhanta Vame Veere tu Divyam syat Kaulam uchhate.

                  This term Vedachara is not to be confused with ancient Vedic knowledge. VEDA is pure divine knowledge, equal to Para Nada.

                  "Vedachara" is only a behavioral pattern in Tantra, included in Pashu bhava. Those who are deeply bound by samskaras of "do" and "dont", by fear of Sin and merit, those ridden with the foolish ideas of Sacredness and bathe and wash to become outwardly "Holy", those who mix outer social pretence with spirituality, those who believe in the existace of many Gods, those who think their's is the only path, those who believe that going to Heaven and enjoying celestial pleasure is the highest good... are Vedacharis or, Pashu Bhava sadhakas. A lot of restraint is applied on Pashu Bhava in Tantra.He who is easily influenced by anger or, desire should keep away from their possible causes. Hence the need for restraint.

                  This (Vedachara) train of thought is criticised by Lord Krishna in Gita. (2nd chapter, 41-48)
                  Bahu shakha anantascha Buddhayo Avyabasayinam.(41)
                  Their minds are bewildered with too many desires.

                  Veda-vada ratah Partha, nanyad astiti vadinah. (42)
                  The Vedavadis think that their path is the only path.

                  Kamatmanah Swarga-para Janma karma phalapradam. (43)
                  Ridden with desires, they strive for Heavenly pleasures, and are caught in the web of birth-death and more Karma.

                  Traigunya Vishaya Veda, nistraigunyo Bhava-Arjuna.(45)
                  The Vedavadis are entangled in the 3 Gunas (Sattwa, Rajas, Tamas)
                  Arjuna, you get rid of all 3. Rise above them.

                  The main goal of spirituality is Release from all bondage. By becoming attached to some rigid thought cycles, or SAMSKARAs, one only creates fresh shackles of Karmas. Hence, Yogis, Gyanis, Vira and Divya sadhakas rise above all samskaras and try to be free. The society is based upon strict regulations, fear, insecurity and greed. Advanced Yogis & tantriks transcend such petty social bounderies in their spiritual journey.

                  As my Guru used to say, "The place of a Sanyasi is beyond the Limits of society."

                  But one must not forget the final goal of Tantra: Infinite consciousness by Samadhi.
                  "Yat Samadheh Param Jyotir Anantam Vishwato mukham,
                  Asmin driste Kriya kaschid yatayatam na vidyate." -Niruttara Tantram 4/27

                  meaning- By witnessing the boundless Light in samadhi that engulfs the universe, all Karmas, birth and death are overcome.

                  There are good ways to attain this and really bad ones. The Good ones are Vedanta, Raja & Hatha Yoga, Higher tantrik practices like meditation, pranayama, japa, mudras, yantras and homa, etc.. And the bad road is given below:

                  Whenever Tantrik sadhakas have gone to extremes and taken refuge in utterly cruel paths, the Spiritual giants have criticised them severely. Wise rishis and realised Tanrik Gurus have admonished the travellers who have chosen such savage paths. (like the murderous Kapalikas, Killer Aghoris & Pashupatas, etc.) (Not all aghoris or, pashupats were killers, though. But Kapalikas earned their bad name by killing and collecting skulls. Kapal = cranium)
                  8th cent. Authority of Purva-Mimamsa, Kumaril Bhatta has said, "Knowledge procured through such unholy, vengeful paths is like sacred Ganges water collected in dog's skin."

                  Tantrik Acharya Bhaskararai said, "Vedviruddhani Kapal Bhairavadini cha." Rishi Medhatithi, Apararka(the treatise writer of Yajnavalka Samhita) have also criticised them. If you want more references, just ask!

                  ====================Tantric path is Quick and Dangerous=====================
                  Tantra helps the sadhaka to attain trancendental state in a short time, which by the Vedic path requires many lifetimes. That is because the Vedic path of restraint, austerities and mental discipline is only fit for dispassionate yogis who are above desires.

                  But Tantra allows both Bhoga(enjoyment of earthly pleasures) and yoga. Yet just as it gives us such liberty, if Tantrik sadhakas not careful in this path, only Hell awaits them. The goal of Tantra is Liberation from all bondage. But look at the plight of sadhakas that get distracted by minor siddhis... will they ever get Moksha?

                  Those who have not conquered their passions and yet walk this slippery path, ultimately get ruined. In modern India, Tantra is big business. Just look at the newspapers!
                  Read the Mohan, Stambhan, Vidveshan, Marana and such like Krura vidyas in Tantra.
                  "Get your desired woman by Vashikaran, Mohan, hypnotism prayogas of Tantra. Drive your enemy mad, create dispute in his family by Buddhi-stambhan & Vidveshan! Kill your enemy by Maran applications"
                  Does it sound like good or, evil?
                  Is that Spirituality or, Monstrosity?

                  These things are not modern deformities. They existed centuries back from now. Thats why the Devikavacham says, "Use this armour to protect yourself from the evil vindictive actions of Dakinis, Bhairavas, Tantrik Abhicharas, etc." Devikavacham 52-56.

                  In Tantra, if someone goes unguided by a proper Guru and becomes greedy for power, there is a good chance of failure. And if he tries to advance in his path by causing harm to others, he must reap his consequences. This is called Pratyavay in Tantra.
                  ==============================================================

                  Kula- "Adinatha is Rishava. He is known by both the names. All the panchagama (Shaiva-Shakta-Vaishnava-Jaina-Bouddha) texts claim Him to be the originator."

                  Amitabha: Is it so now? :D Rishabh deva has been mentioned as the originator of nirgrantha digambar Jain saints. The Jains follow that tradition even to this day. It is given in Srimad Bhagavat Puran. But it says nowhere that Rishabh Deva is Adinath Shiva, or, the first Guru of the Nath Yoga tradition.
                  Even if I assume your bogus claim to be "true", for fun's sake,
                  How can both Rishabh (of thousands of years ago) and Swayambhunath of the 8th cent. AD both be the origin of Nath cult?

                  Again, how can you imagine the strictly vegetarian Jainas(who dont even eat underground vegetables for fear of harming worms and insects) from Rishabh become human flesh eating Aghoris or, change into Kulachar Krama (as per your logic that Kaulas=Nath yogis) that allows meat, wine and women?

                  I will not appeal to your Amazing logic anymore. Just allow me to mention one more fact from the history of the Nath Order. Matsyendranath had 2 sons, Neminath and Parsanath, whom he handed over to Gorakhnath for training. Gorakhnath extracted their vital breath, killing them. He changed their constitution and brought them back to life. They were ordered never to harm any being, not to eat flesh and always engage in severe austerities. They started their own lineage later. You will find them much similar to the names and principals of Jaina order. Source: (1) Legend of the Gorakhnathis.
                  (2) Gorakhnath and Kanphata Yogis, by George Weston Briggs.
                  ==================================================================

                  Jai Guru, Adesh Guru!
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                    Thu, June 10, 2010 - 2:29 AM
                    Dear Friend,
                    Sorry for my late reply. Actually I was in a tour of South India from Chennai to Kanchipuram-Rameswaram-Madurai andTirupati. Thats why I was unable to put my replies. Any way, let come to the points.

                    I also cant understand why you put a comparison between me and Kulavadhuta Satpurananda. I have just started my journey and he had completed many years ago. I am simply just nothing to him. If you are so much curious about me then why you dont ask me??????? I am always ready to give you the answers. And if you are so 'honest', dont mind, then why you are hiding your own identity???????????????

                    According to you, "Man, Matsyendranath was the first Guru of the Nath cult! And Adinath is not a man, but Shiva himself!". Now if Adinatha was not a man then how can your Gorakshanatha is the grandson of Adinatha, according to you????????????????????????????????????? See the first chapter of Matsyendranatha Samhita. Shambhu or Swyambhunatha was the guru of Matsyendranatha.

                    If Buddha-Janardana was a Buddha prior to Shakyamuni Buddha, then why his name was not mentioned in later 2000 years???????? The actual fact is that Rudrayamala is a text of nearly Pala era and this Buddha-Janardana is none but the great tantrik guru Padmasambhava/ Padmavajra/Swyambhunatha/ Shambhu. Linguistic also supports this agination of Rudrayamala.

                    It is already been proved that Pashupatas, Nakulishas and the Nathas are the oldest Shaivates. Please see Pashupata Sutra and its commentry by Koudinya.
                    • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                      Sat, June 12, 2010 - 4:04 AM
                      Dear Banibrata,
                      Welcome. Was it a pleasure trip, or, related to your research? I have been to Chennai & Pondicherry, but never to Tirupati or, Rameshwaram. Did you have a good time?

                      Well, it is not an honorable practice to criticise the master in front of the disciple. So, forgive me when I disprove your master Kula with you here. Now, should we begin?

                      Kula, however proud or, rude he may be at times, never deviates from Logic. That is something I appreciate about him. But you disregard logic and repeat the same lame point again and again (when it has already been proven false). Perhaps you think that by repeating a senseless gossip many times will somehow make it TRUE. That, my friend never happens.

                      I have already stated my point on- why Swayambhunath of 8th. century AD cannot be the originator of the Nath tradition. Just READ my last post again.

                      And dont try to play with words and fool me. SwayambhuNath cannot be Shambhu. Both Swayambhu( स्वयम्भु ) and Shambhu ( शम्भु )are linguistically and grammatically different words. Even the "S" is a different letter. Both words are in the Vedic literature for thousands of years. And they denote God or, Shiva. Shiva or, Rudra is Shambhu.
                      In Shatarudriya hymn of Yajur Veda, Rudra has been invoked as Aghora, Shambhu, etc.
                      In Valmiki Ramayana, the 11 Rudras include Shambhu.
                      In Agni Purana and Mahabharata, he has been called as Shambhu & Kapali.
                      In Shiva Purana he has innumerable names, including Shambhu, Neelrudra, etc.
                      Therefore, Swayambhunath cannot become Shambhu, neither can Swayambhunath be the Guru of the Nath cult.

                      Why am I hiding? I find the word "Hiding" quite repugnant. In the internet, it is not wise to disclose one's full identity, esp. in a public forum. It is enough that I have used my real name and that of my Gurudeva.
                      If you are demanding photos, then I must say that we are not in a bodybuilding competition, or, a beauty contest, where my looks matter. We are here to discuss our views on spirituality, not our facial structures.
                    • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                      Sat, June 12, 2010 - 9:47 PM
                      Dear Banibrata,

                      I think it is meaningless to debate with this Amitava. He is book-full block-headed. He is fixed in his beliefs and his logic is oriented in the same style. He is highly informative because that is where he gets recluse to hide his own incompleteness. He does not seem to be a scrutinizing study-person, his knowledge is informative and superficial of a general reader. At last he opens up that he has not locked his vindu and talks big information which are just fantasies to keep his self-consolation process alive. It is like a impotent (napungsaka) who just loves to talk about sexual ecstasy! He is in this forum like many others her who wants to see themselves in others' eyes to grow self-consolation to hide from his practical imperfections. He does not seem to have sense of logic that he claims from others. He self-reflects. His attitude itself is debating to prove himself. He does not seems to have a Guru who can take the disciple beyond self-contradictions. He does not have shilas also. He come from a faith-oriented bookish tradition which needs popularity as his logic structure just for support. Have compassion on him and leave this discussion. There is no more rasa in talking to him. He even does not understand the difference between Rudra and Mahadeva. He has no field studt to support his books even. He does not know the scientific modern ways to assure a text. He is a regular Vedic, 'bedo shala" in Byamakhyapas language. How can you expect a person with yogic dignity of understanding who has not locked his vindu yet which is one of our second standard practices? Chanchalavindu can never come to Siddhantachara srtucture. So just leave him otherwise he can get a brain attack the way he becomes emotional.

                      Another thing, I have a scholastic understanding or speculation about Buddha Janardana to be Goutama only. In Kalachacra-laghu-tantra Shakyamuni has been describes as Janardana, may be as an epithet of Vishnu assigned to Him or else on the gunavachaka visheshya understanding of the word as jana (public)+ ardana (begging) that shows the bhikshu nature of Him. Again in the abadana sataka of the Chinese collection I have got one reference of Sakyamuni being sponsored by king Vimbisara to share His wisdom with wisdom lovers of Tang dynasty. In Tibetan reference of Songsten Gampo's bringing Buddha's relic from Chinese Tang dynasty as a gift for marrying pricess Weng Chen approves this fact. We are all in informative knowledge in this aspect which is mere ignorance with a frame work of logic to establish what we gather and develop speculation on. It is interesting to discuss with practitioners who delve in the field of knowledge too Their practical senses assures their logic. Here with Amitabha the case is different. He is a belief-system bias. Whatever, reference in Prajna paramita Ashtasahasrika about king Sadaprarudita alias Succhanda receiving the style of teachings together with Mahakashyapa and Subhuti assures the demand of Kalachakra to be in essence or its later format rendered by Buddha Himself. many of the Kalachakra practices are so akin to Tao that it feels we have received a lot from Tao. In Srividya and other Guru-pangtimala we will see the Tantrik inheritence comes from Prasukhananda who has also been mentioned in Taratantra as chinakrama-holder. In south India, I do not remember where it is, There is a temple of Parasukhananda and their heritage text of the temple claims Him to be coming from China. I have question that I have placed in Tribe posts before but received no supportive documents about Laoustu's coming to India after being banished from China by the conspiracy of Confucius. I have heard a lot of scholars saying this but still I have not found any dependable textual support. So My speculation about Loutsu may be known as Parasukhananda haunts me a lot. Even the name itself reflects to Hedonism of Tao befor it turned to Zen during the time of Bodhidharma. So, I will stick to my assesment yet not assertation that Buddha Gautama went to China and might have participated in the practice of Tao where Vamadevacharya meets Him to bring the Vamachara Sadhana to India (?). The practices of Vajroli in Tao is much older to our tradition according to textual support following museology. If Swayambhunatha would have been the Buddha then He would not been have called Janardana as an epithet to Vishnu. Matsyendra Samhita being written in mixed Apabhramsa and Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit, only ediots will assign to the belief of Him being before 8th century. The "Hindu Natha Order" have no supporetive text that can pass through the museological tests except Matsyendra Samhita. People like Amitava needs some field studies to Ajanta, Ellora, Karala caves to enrich knowledge of Early Siva-Bouddha alination of Vajrayana history. Books may sometimes get adulterated but the stone icons do not.

                      • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                        Mon, June 14, 2010 - 8:40 PM
                        Kula,
                        Thanks for devoting a whole paragraph in my PRAISE or, abhorrence, which are all the same. Kula, my friend, never mind my belief system, for you are totally unaware of it. Dont be so passionate. You are an Avadhoot, remember?

                        The word Janardana is a name of Vishnu, it means, Jana( birth/ men) + Ardana( tormentor/ destroyer). So, the meanings can either be, "The destoyer of birth and death", ie, Liberator; or, the "Who Chastises, or, Purifies people, ie., a Taskmaster". I wish to take the first meaning, One who liberates us from the birth & death cycle by imparting knowledge.

                        King Bimbisara (558-491 BC) of Magadha, was primarily a Jain devotee, a disciple of Mahavira. He met Buddha before he became enlightened, and ws quite impressed by the recluse. Bimbisara again met Gautama after his Buddhahood and offered to help him to spread his religion. Bimbisara's name appear in several places in Jataka tales in Buddhism and in Jaina scriptures.

                        Sage Vasistha is regarded as one of the Saptarshis. He is the rishi in the 7th mandala of Rigveda. He and his progeny have been praised in Rigveda 7/33. He tried to gain Gayatri siddhi after performing great austerities, but met with failure. So, he cursed the Gayatri mantra. Finally after he became a Gayatri siddha, he released Gayatri from his hex.
                        "Arkajyotir aham brahma...etc."

                        His lifespan seems to be several thousand years! He is said to be the Kula Guru of Surya-vamsam, the Sun dynasty of Ayodhya, the kingdom of Rama in Treta period. And again, it is said in the Tantra Manuscripts, that after Vasistha succeeded in the Vedic Siddhis, he tried to attain Tara siddhi for many thousand years without success. He cursed the Tara mantra and received the divine command to go to Maha-China to Buddha Janardana and learn Chinachara; For, in Kaliyuga, Tara cannot be attained through other means. So, Vasistha travels to China, or, Tibet(?), finds Janardana and gets the shock of his life! The austere Rishi sees Janardana surrounded by women in various postures, drinking wine and eating flesh. He has difficulty accepting this "drunken revelry" as the Chinachara advised by Tara, but finally yields on revelations from the wise Janardana.
                        Vasistha returns to India to start his new sadhana and chooses Tarapith (in Veera-bhoomi), modern Birbhoom. He sets up his asana under a Bakula tree and soon meets with success. Thousands of years later, Bamakhepa attains siddhi on the same spot as Vasistha in Tarapith. The rock in the Tarapith temple, under the metal icon of Goddess Tara, is the original idol worshipped by Vasistha. This rock ws dug up from beneath the Bakula tree.

                        These stories are in the ancient scriptures. They may be legends, or, may be unfathomable truth! If Vasistha received his lessons from Gautama Buddha, he would have to be thousands of years old! Furthermore, Gautama Buddha would have to drink wine, eat flesh, enjoy women, if he were this Janardana, which is unthinkable. Buddha never travelled to Tibet or, China, as far as the Pali canon goes! Also, the idea of Chinachara, or, deep-rooted Vajrayana sadhana doesnt come into history until 8th-9th century AD. Hence, my speculation (only) that Vasistha might have met an earlier Buddha. But if Vasistha's teacher was Padma-Sambhava, who is a Tantrik Buddha, the former must have lived upto the eighth century AD, which is a really LONG life.
                        • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                          Tue, June 15, 2010 - 7:33 AM
                          "The tao that can be told
                          is not the eternal Tao
                          The name that can be named
                          is not the eternal Name.

                          "The unnamable is the eternally real.
                          Naming is the origin
                          of all particular things.

                          "Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
                          Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations."

                          Okay, now that you guys have shaken your pee-pees at each other, trying to see which one is bigger, perhaps you could answer a simple questions: Since you posted this to a Tribe named "Practical Tantra," how, specifically, is any of this "practical?"

                          Will it get rid of BPs massive destruction of the environment, of animals, and of the beaches in the Gulf of Mexico?
                          Will someone reading it achieve enlightenment?
                          Will it cure cancer?
                          Will it cure the common cold?
                          Will it cure a hangnail?

                          How, specifically, have the thousands of words you have flung out here be of "practical" use to anyone.

                          Rules:
                          1) spelling doesn't count.
                          2) keep answers under 1 paragraph
                          3) If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him
                          4) Dobbs: "If you're the police where are your badges?"
                          Gold Hat: "Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinkin' badges!"
                          5) Screw rules anyway.
                          6) "Your Mother Was a Hamster and Your Father Smelt of Elderberries!"
                          • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                            Tue, June 15, 2010 - 9:46 PM
                            Hey Sham,

                            "Okay, now that you guys have shaken your pee-pees at each other, trying to see which one is bigger, perhaps you could answer a simple questions: Since you posted this to a Tribe named "Practical Tantra," how, specifically, is any of this "practical?""

                            -- We have heard that Gorakhnath was peeing on a tree to become gold. We were trying to see who turns gold with whose pee.;)
                            And ULTIMATELY you came to join in the same, isn't it? I syour pee make things more gold ?

                            "Will it get rid of BPs massive destruction of the environment, of animals, and of the beaches in the Gulf of Mexico?
                            Will someone reading it achieve enlightenment?
                            Will it cure cancer?
                            Will it cure the common cold?
                            Will it cure a hangnail?"

                            -- All these are done or yet to be done by Great Master Shambhalnath according to old prophecies! It is not the job for us meres to do that, is it? Then who will sell books and workshops in the competitive Tantra market?

                            "How, specifically, have the thousands of words you have flung out here be of "practical" use to anyone."

                            -- Another great paraphrasing!!!

                            "Rules:
                            1) spelling doesn't count.
                            2) keep answers under 1 paragraph
                            3) If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him
                            4) Dobbs: "If you're the police where are your badges?"
                            Gold Hat: "Badges? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinkin' badges!"
                            5) Screw rules anyway.
                            6) "Your Mother Was a Hamster and Your Father Smelt of Elderberries!" "

                            -- Thank YOU RULE-ER. But have you seen that you have violated your own rule of answering in 1 paragraph?

                            One can see others shadow but not one's own when they face the sun.

                            Adesh!
                            • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                              Tue, June 15, 2010 - 11:36 PM
                              Thank You Sambhalnath, for reminding of the practical aspect of this Tribe.

                              Thank you Kula, for showing good humour.

                              Now, practical or, otherwise, we cannot totally discard the antiquity and tradition in Tantra, for that is also part of it. Tantra is shrouded in mysticism and direct knowledge from the Guru. If we try to be thoroughly inventive here and discard the old ways, things might not work; for this is a Guru-gamya path.
                              "Mantra mulam Guror vakyam"

                              Anyway, can "anyone" tell us something about the famous Siddha KENARAM AGHORI of Varanasi?

                              Jai Guru, Jai Ma.
                              • Om
                                Om
                                offline 0

                                Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                                Tue, June 29, 2010 - 12:22 AM
                                Pranam to all dear members in this group...

                                i have a question about Sri Kenaram Aghori as well.. i have heard that Aghori Bhagawan Ram is the re-incarnation of Sri Kenaram Aghori.. is that true?

                                Can anyone help or guide me in finding my GURU ? without saying or revealing much about myself.. i can just say that i have been seeking for my Guru for the last 9yrs.. i am 23yrs of age finished my formal education as a computer engg. and has finally made up my mind to leave for himalayas very soon .. some of you may contradict or even lol at this .. yet i really cant stop myself from asking all the respected , learned and senior members in the tribe.. i will be helpful if someone helps me saying atleast which WAY to Go??????


                                • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                                  Tue, June 29, 2010 - 8:37 AM
                                  Om,

                                  Go the way of HEART. Feel in yourself what calls from within that hods that vairagya-thought for you. It is You who have to recognize your Guru and not anyone else can do it for you. Whom ever in your Journey makes inside you to think that here you are happy to surrender. That feeling itself as Great Love that makes your ego work no more, to Whom it flows is your Guru.

                                  Best of wishes for meeting your Guru............................Kulavadhuta Satpurananda............................................
                                  • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                                    Tue, October 11, 2011 - 12:51 AM
                                    Amitabha and Kulavadhuta,

                                    Both of you seem to be very knowledgeable. May I ask you if you have any of the 8 popular siddhis? (or know of anyone alive who have them?)

                                    thanks
                                    • Unsu...
                                       

                                      Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                                      Wed, October 12, 2011 - 8:16 PM
                                      >> May I ask you if you have any of the 8 popular siddhis? (or know of anyone alive who have them?) **

                                      You wouldn't know unless you saw one demonstrated in person. Isn't it so unfortunate that the breadth of the myth of siddhis spans most Eastern-influenced spirituality like a choking growth of kudzu?
                                      • Re: Aghori Sadhus of Antiquity

                                        Sun, October 16, 2011 - 12:53 AM
                                        I think Amitabha is right . Divyachara and Veerachara are not separate achara. As per kularnava the achara are 7 only . There may be different names given in different lineages. He seems to posses sound knowledge on this subject.

                                        I think kula and Amitabha you should not fight rather than have a friendly discusion.

                                        Thanks .

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