Saraswati

topic posted Sun, March 8, 2009 - 4:04 AM by  Vani
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Does anyone know a powerful mantra for Saraswati and how to appease her?
posted by:
Vani
India
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  • Re: Saraswati

    Sun, March 8, 2009 - 4:16 AM
    E text source:- www.celextel.org
    Vaageswari Stavam
    By Adi Sankarachaya
    [The prayer to the Goddess of Speech]
    Translated by P. R. Ramachander

    [Saraswathiis the Goddess of learning and knowledge. Her name is variouslyinterpreted as That which flows, that which has lakes and pools and asessential knowledge personified. She arose out of the mind of LordBrahma, when he was meditating. He later married her. (BrahmandaPurana). She is supposed to have the forms of Gayathri, Savithri ,Saraswathi and Brahmani. She is the goddess of Speech and hence calledVaageswari. The reference I have in Malayalam ascribes this prayer toAdhi Shankara Bhagawat Pada. But this is not listed as one of the worksof Adhi Shankara in the web.]

    Amala kamaladhi vaasini, manaso,
    Vaimaya dhayini, manogne,
    Sundara gathri, susheele,
    Thava charanamboruhayo namami sadaa. 1

    I always worship your lotus feet,
    Oh Goddess, who lives in pure white lotus flower,
    Oh Goddess, who grants cleanliness of mind,
    And Oh Goddess who is pretty and good natured.

    Achalathmaja cha durga,
    Kamala tripurethi bheditha jagathi,
    Yaa saa thwameva vaachaa,
    Meeswari, sarvathmana praseede mama. 2

    By all known means, be pleased with me,
    Oh Goddess, though you are called differently by the world,
    As the daughter of mountain, as fearsome Durga,
    As one who, lives on lotus and as the great Tripura,
    You are the one and the same - the goddess of speech.

    Twacharanamboruhayo,
    Pranama heena punardwijathirapi,
    Bhooyadanedamukha,
    Sthwad bhaktho bhavathi Devi, sarvagna. 3

    Hey Goddess, he who does not salute your lotus feet,
    Even if he is a Brahmin, would become dumb and deaf,
    In the births that he will take later,
    And your devotee would become the all knowing one.

    Mooladhara mukhorgatha,
    Bisa thanthu nibha prabhavathaya,
    Visruthalipi pravatha hitha,
    Mukha kara charanadhike, Praseede mama. 4

    Oh goddess, whose face, hands and legs,
    Are the letters of alphabets, which have become enlarged,
    Starting from the inside of mooladhara,
    By the power of sound shining like a thread of lotus.

    [Thesound which emanates from mooladhara is indistinct and micro and iscalled Para. From there, when it reaches the belly button, it slightlybecomes distinct and is called Pasyanthi .When it further travels andreaches the heart, it is called Madhyama: and when it reaches thethroat , it becomes distinct and pronounceable and is called Vaikhari.These are the different alphabets, which have developed from the microsound and are 51 in number. The vowels become the head and neck of thegoddess of learning, the five letters starting from ka become her righthand, the five letters starting with cha become her left hand, the fiveletters starting with ta, become her right leg and the five lettersstarting from tha, become her right leg and the remaining fifteenletters become her other parts of the body.]

    Varnathano amrutha varne,
    Niyatha nirvarnithepi yogeendrai,
    Nirneethikarana dhoothe,
    Varnayithum devi, dehi samarthyam. 5

    Hey colourful holy goddess,
    Hey Goddess who is as white as nectar,
    Even sages great, cannot describe you properly,
    And so Goddess, who is far-far away from any description,
    Please make me capable of describing you.

    Sasura asura mouli lasa,
    Nmani prabha deepithangri nalina yuge,
    Sakalagama swaroope,
    Sakaleswari, Sannidhim videhi mayi. 6

    Hey Goddess whose tender pretty feet,
    Shines due to the gems in the crowns of devas and asuras*,
    And who is personification of all Vedas and other holy books,
    And who is the goddess of every one,
    Please live within my heart
    *Who bend and salute you

    Pusthaka japa pata hasthe,
    Varadabhaya chinha charu bahu lathe,
    Karpooramala dehe,
    Vageeswari, shodhayasu mama chetha. 7

    Hey goddess of speech,
    Who has in one hand the prayer beads bag,
    Who shows protection and blessing by two hands,
    And who is as white as the camphor,
    Please clean fast my intellect.

    Kshmoumaambara paridhaane,
    Muktha mani bhooshane, mudha vase,
    Smitha chandrika vikasitha,
    Makhendu bimbe ambike praseeda mama. 8

    Hey Goddess Ambike,
    Who wears white silk,
    Who decorates herself with gems,
    Whose face shines with the moonlight of her smile,
    And in whom the pure happiness of the soul resides,
    Kindly become pleased with me.

    Vidhyaa roope avidhya,
    Nasini, Vidhyotheethe antharathma vidhyam,
    Gadyai ssapadhya jatai,
    Raadyair munibhi sthuthe, praseeda mama. 9

    Hey Goddess, who was praised by primeval sages,
    By prose and well written poems,
    Who is with the form of knowledge,
    Who is the dispeller of ignorance,
    And who shines in the lotus mind of,
    Sages who are experts in the knowledge of soul,
    Kindly become pleased with me.

    Trimukhi, trai swaroope,
    Tripure, tridashobhi vandithamgri yuge,
    Theekshana vilasitha vakthre,
    Trimoorthi moolaathmike, praseedaama. 10

    Oh Goddess, Who is the soul of the trinity,
    Who has three faces,
    Who has three forms of Lakshmi, Parvathi and Saraswathi,
    Who lives as macro, micro and causal forms,
    Whose feet is worshipped by all devas,
    And who has a face shining with keen intellect,
    Kindly become pleased with me.

    Vedathmike, niruktha,
    Jyothir vyakarana kalpa shikshabhi,
    Sachandobhi sandatha
    Knuptha shadangendriye, praseeda mama. 11

    Hey Soul of Vedas,
    Whose six parts of the body are,
    Etymology, Astrology, grammar, rituals
    Phonetics and prosody,
    Kindly become pleased with me.

    [Astrologyis her eyes, rituals are her hands, Etymology are her ears, phoneticsis her nose, grammar is her face and prosody are her legs.]

    Bodathmike, budhaanaam,
    Hrudayambuja charu ranga natana pare,
    Bhagawathi, bhava bhanga kareem,
    Bhakthim bhadrathadhe, praseeda mama. 12

    Oh goddess who is personification of intelligence,
    Who likes to dance in the mind of the intellects,
    Who is the goddess with all qualities,
    Who grants all wishes,
    Grant me devotion to you which would,
    Destroy all fears to day today living.

    Thwacharana sarasi janma,
    Sthitha mahithadhiyaam na lipyathe dosha,
    Bhagawathi Bhakthimatha sthwayee,
    Paramaam parameshwari, praseeda mama. 13

    Oh goddess of the pure hearted,
    To those who place their heart in thine lotus like feet,
    Bad qualities and dirty thoughts do not happen,
    And so please help me to have utmost devotion,
    In thine lotus feet and be pleased with me.

    Vaageesi stham mithiyo,
    Japarchanaaha vana vrutheeshuprajapeth,
    Sathu vimala chitha vruthir,
    Ddehapadhi nithya shudha methi padam. 14

    He who chants this ode to the goddess of words,
    During the time of meditation, worship and sacrifice,
    He would attain clear pure mindedness,
    And reach the perennial pure bliss.

    Sri Vageswaryai nama

    Salutation to Goddess of Speech.

    Srimath paramahamsa parivrajaka sankarabhgwat,
    Paadavirachitham Vageesi sthavam sampoornam.

    Thus ends the "Ode to the Goddess of Speech" written by
    Adhi Shankara Bhagawat Pada.

    OM
    • Re: Saraswati

      Sun, March 8, 2009 - 4:18 AM
      Namaste
      In addition,how to appease her?
      For that I would suggest you to see a scholar and act accordingly.
      OM
    • Re: Saraswati

      Sun, March 8, 2009 - 8:21 AM
      Namaste and many thanks.
      How does this prayer work? How many times should one chant this?
      Please clarify.
      • Re: Saraswati

        Sun, March 8, 2009 - 8:57 AM
        Namaste
        As suggested earlier that for its details and proper method you have to see a scholar,he can only tell you in detail.
        As on net I am unable to give you full depth.
        OM
  • Re: Saraswati

    Wed, March 25, 2009 - 5:11 PM
    Dear Vani,

    Great name, by the way! :) If you would like to invoke the blessings of Divine Mother Saraswati, there is a very simple but powerful mantra you can use:

    Om aim srim hrim saraswati devyai namaha

    I have used this extensively and found it very powerful in transforming my consciousness, bringing in divine light, improving intuition and so on. It is taught mainly by my guru, Amma Karunamayi, who teaches this mantra to anyone who wishes to make spiritual progress. You can't get the correct pronunciation by reading the words, so you can listen to the mantra here:

    www.amma.fm/index.php

    You can repeat this mantra silently or out loud, although silently will be most powerful. Try to do it 108 times every day (you can use a mala to count). If you don't have time for that, try for 54, 27, or 18 times a day. Here's a more powerful version of this mantra:

    Om aim srim hrim saraswati devyai namaha
    Sarva jnana siddhim kuru kuru swaha

    I don't have a source for pronunciation, unfortunately. There's a booklet I created based on Amma Karunamayi's teachings, to help people use Saraswati Mantra and understand the significance; the booklet can be bought from:

    www.karunamayi.org/AmmaStore/product.php

    Here's a quote from the booklet:

    "When we repeat the Saraswati Mantra mentally, without movement of the lips, this will create very gentle vibrations in the delicate subtle nerves in the brain. These vibrations will release the jadatwa, or lethargy, of the nerves and will activate the 108 main centers, or jnana kendras, of the brain. When these kendras are purified and enlivened by the mental japa of Saraswati Mantra, our brains will be prepared for the descent of very subtle and profound spiritual knowledge."

    I'll do a follow-up post with other ways of invoking Mother Saraswati's divine grace.

    Jai Ma!
    Ekta
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Saraswati

      Thu, April 2, 2009 - 7:22 PM
      make an altar for her with her image and pray to her sincerely, shw will guide you, she likes different things you have to have a relaitonship with the deity and that takes work, practice, prayer and sincere devotion for enlightment

      She is the mother of all buddhas she is the consort of Bhrahma and of Manjusri in Tibetan Buddhism
      She is the mother of learning and arts

      her bija mantra is

      aim

      ohm aim namaha

      is the simple version
      if you do this 10 000 times you will probably feel the connection, it depends on your faith and devotion to her
    • Re: Saraswati

      Thu, May 28, 2009 - 11:50 PM
      Ekta: "I don't have a source for pronunciation, unfortunately."

      Pronunciation is relatively easy for this mantra. Just show the following to anyone who is fluent in reading and pronouncing the devanagari script and ask him to read it to you aloud:
      www.shrani.si/f/b/ji/3aMZ...timantra.jpg
      • Re: Saraswati

        Tue, June 9, 2009 - 10:53 AM
        A few days ago I found a wonderful chanting of Shri Sarasvati Shatnam Stotram. Beautiful pronunciation and background music.Highly recommended!
        www.youtube.com/watch
        • Re: Saraswati

          Tue, June 23, 2009 - 6:12 AM
          aum aing saraswataye namah aum
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Saraswati

            Tue, June 30, 2009 - 4:59 PM
            Bija mantras should never be given out loud and should never be recited outloud, that is how they loose their powers.
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: Saraswati

              Tue, June 30, 2009 - 5:00 PM
              These are the rules of the Rishis
              • Re: Saraswati

                Tue, June 30, 2009 - 7:02 PM
                RIshis, smishis. Those guys have been dead for thousands of years. The power in any mantra is put there by the sincerity of the devotee. No rule or exposure can change that.
                • Re: Saraswati

                  Sat, July 11, 2009 - 11:53 AM
                  Jody,
                  Your humility never fails to impress me ;-)
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Saraswati

                    Sat, July 11, 2009 - 11:01 PM
                    The thing that never fails to distress me is how folks are willing to adopt abject superstition as fact.
                    • Re: Saraswati

                      Sun, July 12, 2009 - 10:29 PM
                      Jody wrote: "The thing that never fails to distress me is how folks are willing to adopt abject superstition as fact."

                      Interesting.

                      The thing that never fails to distress me is how some folks are willing to say that what others do is superstition while what they have are "facts" (even though they have not made the the slightest investigation) and demand that people accept their "facts" in a way that is identical to what they call "superstition."

                      I wonder why they do that?

                      Of course, telling the truth to someone not ready or unwilling to accept it is tantamount to telling that person a lie.

                      Namaste!
                      • Re: Saraswati

                        Sun, July 12, 2009 - 11:02 PM
                        > I wonder why they do that?
                        *****
                        I make no demands on anyone. That's all you. I'm just saying what I believe. YM will always V.

                        Until somebody can put it on the table, it will remain, and I will render it to the best of my ability, as smoke, mirrors and a very good helping of a naive imagination.
                      • Re: Saraswati

                        Sun, July 12, 2009 - 11:07 PM
                        > even though they have not made the the slightest investigation
                        *****
                        Huge assumption, very wrong. Besides being a former parapsychology student who now works at a think tank that was founded by SRI, I lived at an ashram for a year, am initiated as a tantric shakta in the tradition of Ramakrishna, and have been following Yoga as a cross-cultural phenomenon in the States since 1983. Not that any of that means squat, but as a reminder that I have done a modicum, and some might even say, intensive investigation.
                        • Re: Saraswati

                          Mon, July 13, 2009 - 9:50 AM
                          Wow! 2 responses to one brief post. Looks like I hit one of your buttons.

                          Telling people that if they dare to listen to someone other that you they're wasting their time by following "rishis smishis'--basically insulting them, is de facto ordering of people to listen to you and nobody else while denegrating others..

                          You lived at an ashram for a year. That's wonderful. Congratulations. <snark>And those poor rishis and teachers you mock have only been doing this for many decades--collectively for hundreds or thousands of years--so obviously they're wrong and Jody is right. </snark>LOL!

                          Perhaps you should look at the klesha asmita ("I-ness" or "ego"), one of the "tools" by which Maya prevents people from seeing what is real. In this case, a description of asmita could be "the person you think you are is not the person others know you to be." I'm sure you see yourself as being open-minded. Perhaps in reality you are. But you come off as being closed minded with a "my way or the highway" attitude.

                          If this closed-minded attitude is what you need to make it in life, blessings on you! When you repeatedly press your personal paradigm on others and denounce those who dare to disagree, including outright insulting of honored teachers ( with your "rishis shmishis"), that's just being a bully. And when someone stands up to bullies, their frequent response is to attempt to overwhelm (as indicated by your multiple posts in response to what I posted).

                          You talk about SRI. SRI became well-known under its previous name of Stanford Research Institute and being associated with the testing of Uri Geller and the supposed debunking of that testing by "The Amazing Randi." I heard him just 2 days ago and he was still attacking Geller. Randi has been a bully who has made a living for over 30 years by doing little more than denouncing Geller.

                          How are you being any different?

                          If people investigate the writings of hundreds of rishis and their combined thousands of years of research and then compare it to Jody's one year of being in an ashram and "following yoga as a cross-cultural phenomenon since 1983" (which, of course, has nothing to do with investigating these writings, teachings or practices) and determine that Jody is lacking...well, if you choose to mock people who dare to disagree with your anecdotal and therefore non-scientific claims, that's up to you. But IMO that means you have no right to claim offense when someone points this out.

                          Maybe you aren't a bully. Maybe you aren't closed minded. But you frequently come off that way, as you have in this thread. Is that your goal? To come off as a self-righteous know-it-all who insults others who dare to differ?

                          Now, I know, you're going to whine, "But you're insulting me because I disagree with you." There's a big difference. I'm saying if what you believe in works for you, fine. Go with it. Share it with people, Defend your position. Just don't be an a$$wipe about it. I'm saying that everyone has a right to their opinions on spiritual matters because they are beliefs. If someone wants to believe in one rishi or another and it's working for them, fine! If they want to believe in Jody's opinion, fine!

                          So Jody, think of your PRESENTATION. Coming off as a supercilious know-it-all isn't going to encourage people to listen to you, it's going to turn people off to spiritual practices of any sort completely. However, if an abandonment of spirituality is your goal, carry on. There will be others, including myself, who will continue to point out how asmita is making you blur your message.

                          And some of those people will even laugh.
                          • Re: Saraswati

                            Mon, July 13, 2009 - 1:54 PM
                            > Just don't be an a$$wipe about it.
                            *****
                            Hey Kettle. It's Pot. What's up?
                            • Re: Saraswati

                              Sat, July 18, 2009 - 7:23 AM
                              >>Hey Kettle. It's Pot. What's up?

                              Jody,
                              I have been in tribes for some time now.. any evidence to back up what you empty thetoric..

                              Further, being the disciple of a good Guru or even root Guru does not make you learned or knowledgable by default. It needs lifetimes of practice. If you do not accept Rishis smishis- what are you doing following the instructions or tradition of Ramakrishna anyway ? Or is it that you dont and that is why you feel like posting this kind of stuff ?
                              • Re: Saraswati

                                Sat, July 18, 2009 - 10:26 AM
                                Regardless of what anyone decides to believe about it, anything I say here is that which makes the most sense to me in the light of what I've come to know and understand in my life. One of those things is that Vedic-based spirituality is 98% mythological. Until somebody can put something on the table, it's just a fairy tale that mantras lose their power when repeated, which is where this whole discussion began.

                                In other words, I believe the power of any mantra is in the repetition, and perhaps in the *belief* it has power. Outside of these, they are just syllables, and lose nothing when repeated, because as being mere syllables, they had nothing special to begin with.
                                • Re: Saraswati

                                  Sat, July 18, 2009 - 11:59 AM
                                  >>One of those things is that Vedic-based spirituality is 98% mythological. Until somebody can put something on the table, it's just a fairy tale that mantras lose their power when repeated, which is where this whole discussion began.


                                  Oooooooh a rationalist - ROFL!!!!!
                                  • Re: Saraswati

                                    Sat, July 18, 2009 - 1:34 PM
                                    Save the giggles for when you can put it on the table.
                                    • Re: Saraswati

                                      Sat, July 18, 2009 - 2:14 PM
                                      >>Save the giggles for when you can put it on the table.

                                      You sure are a laugh riot...

                                      Hmmm... if you mean your Parameshti- root Guru( as known) is Ramakrishna Paramahansa- do your beliefs not clash with His and IF so- do you believe in yours to be so superior to His that you will put down others on this forum for having beliefs similar to His ?

                                      You dont have to answer me- this is for self reflection and I dont say this to tease- it is in the hope that it will help...
                                • Re: Saraswati

                                  Sat, July 18, 2009 - 6:40 PM
                                  Jody wrote: "I believe the power of any mantra is in the repetition, and perhaps in the *belief* it has power. Outside of these, they are just syllables, and lose nothing when repeated, because as being mere syllables, they had nothing special to begin with."

                                  In NLP that's what's called having several "limiting beliefs." As long as you want to believe those things they're absolutely true...for you. That's fine. I have no problem with that. The problem I have with what you've been posting in this thread is your attitude that if anyone dares to believe differently they are idiots who believe in "fairy tales, " "RIshis, smishis," or "adopt abject superstition as fact."

                                  In your most recent post you say that what you have posted makes sense to you. In other words, it's what you believe. That's fine. What's sad is your sheer egotism and dogmatism that your beliefs are okay but those of others are inferior, stupid, or bad.

                                  I really hope that one day you'll learn that your beliefs are nothing more than a map of reality, just as my beliefs are a map and so are everyone else's beliefs. However, the map is not the territory. If your map helps you get from point A to point B, that's fantastic. If someone else's map--no matter how different it is from yours--helps them get from point A to point B, that's fantastic, too.

                                  I guess my real question for you is this: "Who died and made you the god of what people are allowed to believe?"

                                  Namaste!
                                  • Re: Saraswati

                                    Sun, July 19, 2009 - 12:46 AM
                                    > The problem I have with what you've been posting in this thread is your attitude that if anyone dares to believe differently they are idiots who believe in "fairy tales, " "RIshis, smishis," or "adopt abject superstition as fact."
                                    *****
                                    Where have I used the term "idiot" or it's equivalent in this thread? My impatience with superstition doesn't mean I think people who accept these concepts are idiots. I have many more friends in my spiritual life who buy into at least some of these ideas. And I've never said it doesn't work, I've just questioned what is imagined to be the causality.

                                    > In your most recent post you say that what you have posted makes sense to you. In other words, it's what you believe. That's fine. What's sad is your sheer egotism and dogmatism that your beliefs are okay but those of others are inferior, stupid, or bad.
                                    *****
                                    Sham, I can't help but think you are reading a lot into this. Sure, I'm very confident in what I'm trying to say, and perhaps in the face of the overwhelming acceptance of the ideas I critique, I may come off as arrogant. It is also true that I've been harsh in my retorts at times, something I've been working to improve for a while now. But despite the impression I've left with you, I'm always only offering my opinions. Maybe if I put a few more IMOs into it, it would pass muster with you? Because despite how you believe I sound, I'm always nothing more than some fool who thinks he knows. How is that arrogant?

                                    > I really hope that one day you'll learn that your beliefs are nothing more than a map of reality, just as my beliefs are a map and so are everyone else's beliefs. However, the map is not the territory. If your map helps you get from point A to point B, that's fantastic. If someone else's map--no matter how different it is from yours--helps them get from point A to point B, that's fantastic, too.
                                    *****
                                    Thanks for the map lecture. I got that at JFK in '86.

                                    You aren't likely to agree, but much of Vedic-based spirituality in the West is derived from a folk theory of enlightenment. It's a complex topography of "common sense" assumptions and beliefs people have about enlightenment. The idea that the Rishis were magical beings with great powers supports this folk theory. My "rishis, smishis" comment was speaking to that, not to the author. You are right to point out that it was a harsh response. I appreciate that. However, the idea that these guys had access to some kind of mega-magical existence, while very commonly accepted, seems completely fantastic and not very likely real, IMO. And it leads some to believe that their own enlightenment is going to come with magic powers, preventing their recognition of the enlightenment they already are and have always been living in.

                                    > I guess my real question for you is this: "Who died and made you the god of what people are allowed to believe?"
                                    *****
                                    To which I've got to ask: "how on Earth did you get the idea I'm trying to dictate belief?" I'm critiquing belief that I've found to contribute to ignorance, IMO. You may not agree that it's ignorant, and you may not find me capable of determining what is ignorant. You probably find me excessively laden with ignorance. Regardless, I am convinced that these ideas cloud more than clear, and so I say so.

                                    But I'll try to throw in a few more IYAMs and IMOs to let you and anyone else know that I'm not trying to dictate what they should believe, that I'm doing as I've always done here, which is express my opinion based of what I've come to understand, leaving it for folks to savor or shit on. :)

                                    --jody.
                                    • Re: Saraswati

                                      Sun, July 19, 2009 - 9:29 AM
                                      I didn't say you "used the term idiot." I wrote that your is that you believe that way. That's why I didn't put quotes around the word idiot. What's sad about this is that if you don't realize what you are doing and now resort to word games.

                                      By calling other persons' beliefs "superstitions"--which implies that your beliefs, your "maps" are not superstitions--you are denigrating anyone who dares to disagree with you.

                                      I realize you think I'm "reading a lot into this." That's because the klesha of egotism is preventing you from seeing what you're doing. Jody, I'm not saying that your retorts shouldn't be harsh at times--make them as harsh as you like! But I would respectfully suggest that you might keep them fact based rather than claiming your beliefs are better than those of others and anyone is an idiot for believing differently from you. That's one of the major causes of wars today, and you're sinking right into that belief trance.

                                      Many years ago I had a teacher defined "egoism" as "I'm great and you're great, too," while "egotism" is "I'm great and you're wrong." If someone makes a claim you disagree with, say so! Write it and defend your position! That's what discussion (or more technically, "philosophical argumentation") is all about. But you don't do that. You don't defend your position. You just write that Jody is right and if anyone believes differently they're superstitious, they're idiots for following "rishis shmishis," or they're merely believers in fairy tales.

                                      I'm glad you got the map lecture. Too bad you don't seem to "get" it.

                                      You write, "much of Vedic-based spirituality in the West is derived from a folk theory of enlightenment." Really? from just one theory? If you were to outline the progression of the single "folk theory of enlightenment" from creation through evolution through how everyone in the West who looks as Vedic-based spirituality believes in that single theory, you could write a book...or at least a fascinating post that might not be filled with your egotism.

                                      Nobody wrote that Rishis "were magical beings with great powers" here. In fact, what I saw was people who respected their elders for their learning, practice, trainings, and willingness to share. I would say that it is your map that saw this as saying they were magical and had great powers.

                                      But let's say that there ARE some people who "believe that their own enlightenment is going to come with magic powers." Who did and made you the freakin' king who must tell them of " the enlightenment they already are and have always been living in?" Have you no concept at all that merely telling people something like that will make no sense to them and is only insulting to them (because their map is different than yours)? People have their own ideas about what leads to achieving enlightenment, and that means they have to follow that path. Your statements call them idiots for following their maps instead of yours. How does that help them? Your egotism simply turns people from a spiritual path, not to yours.

                                      Jody, just throwing in IMOs won't make you less egotistical or, to use your term, less arrogant. Understanding what you learned about maps will. Understanding and working with your own kleshas will. Working on yourself rather than telling others what they must do will.

                                      Do you understand that in spite of your claim you are NOT showing confidence? If you were confident in your own beliefs you wouldn't need to call what others do "abject superstition." You wouldn't have to call the spiritual leaders of others "rishis smishis." You wouldn't have to claim that people with different beliefs than yours are all believers in fairy tales. Instead, you could share what you believe. The need to denounce the beliefs of others like that shows a lack of confidence. After all, if they were right it means that you are wrong and you simply can't accept that possibility.

                                      If you were really confident, when someone makes a claim you disagree with, all you'd have to do is write something like "That's interesting. Here's my belief..." Then, if that fits the needs of others at this time, they'd be free to investigate what you believe more thoroughly. If what you write fits their needs in the future, they'd be free to investigate it then. Your unconscious goal, however, is not to share your beliefs, but to crush others under you out of your fear that if there's even a possibility of their being right you must be wrong and you simply cannot accept that possibility.

                                      Sure! Express your opinion. That's what forums are all about. If this were just an email between you and me I'd just say, "whatever..." because, unlike you, I am quite confident in my beliefs as this time and don't care what you choose to believe or not believe. However, this is a forum, not an email, and dozens, perhaps hundreds of people are reading this. And to them--in spite of what Jody or I might write--I want to say that your beliefs (as long as they do not lead to harm of yourself or others) are okay. They're fine just as they are. Or rather, your beliefs are fine as long as they are helping you. If they're not making you happy and joyous and leading you toward enlightenment, then I would encourage you to consider what others--including Jody--are sharing. What you believe right now is fine. But if you don't like where your beliefs are taking you, find something else to believe in.

                                      Namaste!

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