Dear friends,
As we've got some time before the next Primal, I'd like to bring up a small concern I had, to stimulate discussion and see if we can all be clear before the next event.
DM-ing at the last Primal was a lot more challenging than in times past, because a lot fewer people were using condoms and safe sex barriers. They were certainly available, and usually right at hand, but I had to repeatedly offer/suggest/cajole people into using them. And I had some people say to me that Primal didn't require them. There were also several people who took their cell phones into the Citadel, and even had them downstairs, which is totally against Citadel rules (and Primal's as well, I'd guess).
I'd appreciate if we could make cell phone and safe sex rules more clear to our participants in advance. I'd also like us to clearly post what these rules are at the party, to help make the DM's jobs easier, and so as to not conflict with the Citadel's policies.
As we've got some time before the next Primal, I'd like to bring up a small concern I had, to stimulate discussion and see if we can all be clear before the next event.
DM-ing at the last Primal was a lot more challenging than in times past, because a lot fewer people were using condoms and safe sex barriers. They were certainly available, and usually right at hand, but I had to repeatedly offer/suggest/cajole people into using them. And I had some people say to me that Primal didn't require them. There were also several people who took their cell phones into the Citadel, and even had them downstairs, which is totally against Citadel rules (and Primal's as well, I'd guess).
I'd appreciate if we could make cell phone and safe sex rules more clear to our participants in advance. I'd also like us to clearly post what these rules are at the party, to help make the DM's jobs easier, and so as to not conflict with the Citadel's policies.
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SF Bay Area
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/14I have to say, Rio, I completely agree with your posting title -- "sex rules"...
Oh, I'm sorry, was there more? I kinda got stuck there for a while...
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/14I totally agree with you and like your suggestions.
I wonder if there's a way to have enlarged versions of the house rules posted in select locations so that they can be easily seen...
Just a thought...
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/14Have you ever been to a Cuddle Party?
They have a scripted "opening circle" where the facilitator reads the rules at length, including exercises (practice in saying no and being said no to; discussing your favorite rules; things like that). Once that circle has begun, nobody is allowed in. It not only makes sure everyone knows the rules, it also helps to engender a sense of community at the party.
Now, I don't think that would directly translate to Primal, but perhaps elements of it can be. Just something to think about... No amount of signage will necessarily work, as people just can't be bothered to read them.
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/14I've missed the past two Primals and did not notice these things (safe sex and phone/cam) to be problems at the earlier events. Nothing works like enforcing the rules a few times by kicking violators out (after warning). It seems harsh but appears to work at PE. It's better than getting shut down by the health department.
I think it would be good to make very clear which activities do or don't require barriers and others where barriers are highly recommended for non-fluid bonded people but not absolutely required.. -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/16Perhaps when the invites are sent out to people, a copy of the rules can come with them, wuth the barriers part highlighted in some manner.
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/29"I think it would be good to make very clear which activities do or don't require barriers and others where barriers are highly recommended for non-fluid bonded people but not absolutely required.. "
My thoughts only, the organizers of Primal / The Citadel will need to clarify:
Safer Sex Rules: Whatever (barrier) rules are in place would be in place for ALL people, not just non-fluid bonded people. If the rules state condoms must be used, then ALL people must use condoms, even those who have unprotected sex elsewhere.
Phones: This is a bit more difficult with Primal parties (less clothing / toy bags) so maybe the organizers will come up with something.
Put it on vibrate, put it in a locker. If there are no lockers available and someone doesn' t want to leave it in a coat pocket or someplace unlocked, put it in a bag you carry with you, put it in your pants, put it down your bra ... just don't take them out anywhere in the space. If it vibrates ... still don't take it out anywhere in the space. Go past the curtain, or outside to answer it or check messages.
The Cage: Is available, keys are at the front desk, there is limited space
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/16On safer sex rules, I concur.
On mobile phones, I think the situation is a little more complex. There aren't enough lockers for everyone to lock them up, even if they did remember to bring a lock. But I certainly think it's reasonable to ask anyone who attempts to _use_ one to leave the building and perhaps to leave the event entirely. -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/17On mobile phones, I think the situation is a little more complex. There aren't enough lockers for everyone to lock them up, even if they did remember to bring a lock. But I certainly think it's reasonable to ask anyone who attempts to _use_ one to leave the building and perhaps to leave the event entirely.
Definitely. -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/19<<But I certainly think it's reasonable to ask anyone who attempts to _use_ one to leave the building and perhaps to leave the event entirely. >>
Seems pretty extreme, I can see it if they are using a camera phone to take photos or if they are talking in a play area / dungeon but just using a phone in an area which does not interefere shouldnt get you tossed, many of us are tied to our phones at odd times, evenings, weekends for work or other important purposes -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/19Except that it's really not possible to determine which phones aren't camera phones, (since most are), and it's not reasonable to try to determine who's using their camera and who's not. Even the people who ARE using their camera are going to proclaim that they're not.
Aside from cameras, I'm not looking forward to having people "ring" in the dungeon while i'm playing nor having them chatting away in the dungeon either.
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/19I think that's just not good enough. Just about all phones have cameras these days, and I think that's the biggest concern. If you allow cell phones you might as well allow cameras!
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/19I believe the official cel phone rule is no phones past the locker area, and no using phones in the building.
In reality, I'm sure lots of people have their phones in their pockets or bags while they're in the building. If the phone never leaves your pocket or bag and it doesn't ring, nobody will ever know.
Even if you're on call, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask you to step outside the building if you have to use your phone. -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/20Right, also if phone doesn't leave your pocket or bag- it can't take pictures. -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/20"Right, also if phone doesn't leave your pocket or bag- it can't take pictures. "
Well... that's not strictly true. It's pretty easy to shoot through a hole in a bag or pocket. -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/21From a camera phone?? Not so much. I, for one, wouldn't be worried about my picture being taken that that.
Though, if we're going to assume that this is something to worry about what is the next step? Patting people down upon entry?
Seriously. I stow my phone when I get a locker. Since I'm relying on public transit to get to Primal, and rides from friends to get home, ditching my phone in someone's car is not an option. If I don't get a locker- what am I really to do? I suppose I could just not take my phone, but that seems less than ideal as I have to travel through some sketchy neighborhoods, and coordinate with other people once we get to SF. -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/21I think perhaps you may be behind the times on telephone technology. Telephone cameras are approaching the quality and flexibility of stand alone digital cameras in the $100 - $150 range these days - except that many telephones also do video.
I don't know what can be done. Until it has proven itself to be a problem, I'm in favor of leaving things as is. I'm sure that many people are carrying their phones into the dungeon in a bag or pocket and I think I'm ok with that for now.
When and if that becomes a problem, I'm not sure what could be done. My guess is that if providing locks for the lockers was too much work, then the next step is probably a full size check booth. The lockers aren't big enough for toy bags now. There's been some concern about theft of and from toybags just sitting around anyway. And I agree that asking people not to bring them, when people come from hours away and parking is already somewhat dicey, doesn't seem reasonable. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Primal and sex rules
04/21I've played with some really high end camera phones, and suspect that it would be too much trouble without enough net gain to bother with people using them on the sly to get dungeon pics. Now, we both know that if someone were hellbent on getting those images, they could. They simply could. I just don't think that PHONES are the problem there.
I like the coat check idea. Failing that, the current situation as is works for the most part, The problem isn't really people carrying their phones, which are off, in their pockets. It's those pulling them out an using them.
We need a phone valet service :) -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/22A phone valet service is actually a pretty good idea. If we separate the phone idea from the toy bag idea, it's not hard to find room to store a LOT of phones, since they're quite small. Perhaps behind the front desk there could be a cabinet of sorts, with a large number of cubby holes, and each one numbered. When people sign in, they are asked to hand over their phones, and the number next to their name on the sign-in sheet can identify which cubby hole they get. They can hand over wallet and keys if they wish for safekeeping, too. Since the front desk is always staffed by responsible people (remember, they have to handle money too) security shouldn't be a problem.
You could be strict and require people to hand over phones upon entry (since 99% of people will probably have them) or you could make it optional with the idea that they would put it in a locker instead...?
That reminds me, what has become of the Cage? Before we got rid of the big ring of keys, one of the keys on that ring was for opening up the cage where many people would put their bags and things. Is it still there? How is its key managed these days? I've been there a couple times since the change in rules, but I just used a locker (with my own lock) and didn't need to investigate that option. -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/22I know I'd be happy to turn over my phone and over valuables to the staff.
The problem I keep coming back to is this...
Most of us try to follow the rules. Phones not in play space. In a pinch, a phone is turned off, and put away in one's bag if a locker wasn't available. Etc. Those people would be happy to turn over their phones, for the most part. Those people are not trying to take a video of you being spanked to post to the internet.
The people who want to break the rules, will. They will not turn over phones, and likely would bring something more NannyCam like for the purpose of stealing images.
While making it easier to follow the rules is something I totally dig, it doesn't address most of the actually concerns.
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/22Checking wallets at the front desk creates a huge target of opportunity. All it would take is for one bad person to find out that they could get a dozen wallets just by coming in the front door and being threatening. -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/22I was thinking the same thing about a big pile of phones. Huge target of opportunity.
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/24Yeah, I guess it does ... I suppose I'm too much of an optimist :)
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Unsu...
Re: Primal and sex rules
04/22the cage is still there and the key is kept by the door person or the cashier
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/22I was under the impression that the cage was only ever available to staff. -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/24Nope...the cage is available to anyone,...usually those with big toy bags or multiple toy bags, but anyone can use it. Just ask the cashier or door person, as Monty so eloquently pointed out.
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Unsu...
Re: Primal and sex rules
04/20If I'm on-call and I want to go to a play space, I first, try to not be on-call. Then, if that doesn't work, I put my phone in quiet mode in my bag in the locker, and once every half-hour or so I'll go outside any see if I was paged or I may just open the locker and sneak a peak. Every action has a consequence. Going out when you're on-call means the consequence is having to work around it. :) And I say this as someone whose pretty much tied to their phone!
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/29If you're running for public office, don't go to public play parties.
If you're worried about STDs, do what you need to do to protect yourself.
Jeez people, get a grip. -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/30It's not about 'getting a grip' or about STD's, it's about being legal with the City and County so that we don't get shut down permanently.
The Citadel has a good relationship w/the police, but if word gets out that you don't have to use condoms to play there, that rep will be shot and we WILL get inspected. -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/30I think we're not supposed to mention the venue by name, as the Primal organizers want to make sure people go through the RSVP process. -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/30Considering it's mentioned in the original post, I'm guessing that mentioning it in a comment isn't such a big deal.
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Re: Primal and sex rules
04/30It's not about 'getting a grip' or about STD's
For some reason, I couldn't help but think of a more pleasurable interpretation of the "get a grip" phrase.
Anyway, the rules may be more about being legal than about STD's. But promoting safety ain't a bad motivation either. -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
05/01I totally agree. I don't really want my picture taken either, and I'm willing to use barriers for every kind of sex. Sorry for being so flip.
Perhaps what we could use is a registry of Primal attendees who are willing to pledge that:
1. They have no camera on their person, and:
2. They will not have any kind of sex without a latex barrier.
Perhaps a ribbon of some kind to indicate one's pledge? Then it's back to the good faith policy... -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
05/02<<2. They will not have any kind of sex without a latex barrier.>>
Irritating, to say the least, if you are there with someone with whom you are fluid bonded, I understand making the statements in order to keep the police happy though -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
05/02<<2. They will not have any kind of sex without a latex barrier.>>
<Irritating, to say the least, if you are there with someone with whom you are fluid bonded,..>
Or if one is alergic to Latex !
Yet another reason why I won't be having sex there. <weg> -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
05/03I think if you're allergic to latex then feel free to substitute whatever other safer sex barrier method you can use instead.
Though I heard something interesting today - a lot of people who are allergic to latex are really reacting to the lube, or not using enough lube. -
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Unsu...
Re: Primal and sex rules
05/03I'm allergic to latex and certain types of synthetic rubber...
I usually try to bring non-latex gloves with me...when I go to these things.. :)
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Re: Primal and sex rules
05/04Yes, allergies to the corn starch used in many latex gloves are extremely common.
It's possible to purchase powder free latex. But by the time you compare prices, you might be better off with nitrile or one of the other alternatives. Personally, I find nitrile harder to work with than latex, but we do what we must. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Primal and sex rules
05/08The dungeon where Primal is held now provides non-latex gloves as well. Vinya\l and nitrile both, I believe.
(No non-latex condoms yet. You'll just have to use your imagination.) -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
05/09I believe they have the 'female condom' which is non-latex though, right? -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
05/09Yes, the female condom, "Reality", is non-latex. -
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Re: Primal and sex rules
05/09When they first came out, they used the brand "Reality" but for whatever reason they appear to have dropped that from the label these days.
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