Okay, I've spent lots and lots of time lately watching Vintage Burlesque on Cable TV..
Every show that I have seen so far has almost always had a belly dancer in it.
Now, we both know that it was pretty commonplace for Burlesque and Belly Dance to share a venue. (A la Velvet Hammer and some of the older Vaudvillian shows).. We know that they went underground around the same time, and have made separate resurgances back into the main stream.
While the comebacks appear to have different time lines they are fairly close together.. They are just wildly separated now.
PF... Do you ever find it frustrating when you hear dancers talk about they two as though the never went together EVER and that they have the timeline of Belly Dance or Burlesque out of place?
Every show that I have seen so far has almost always had a belly dancer in it.
Now, we both know that it was pretty commonplace for Burlesque and Belly Dance to share a venue. (A la Velvet Hammer and some of the older Vaudvillian shows).. We know that they went underground around the same time, and have made separate resurgances back into the main stream.
While the comebacks appear to have different time lines they are fairly close together.. They are just wildly separated now.
PF... Do you ever find it frustrating when you hear dancers talk about they two as though the never went together EVER and that they have the timeline of Belly Dance or Burlesque out of place?
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Re: Curiousness (for da Princess and everyone else)
Thu, February 28, 2008 - 11:58 PMYES OF COURSE!!!!!!
Burlesque came to the US in the 1860's, followed by Little Egypt's 'scandalous' appearnce @ 1893 World's fair in Chicago, and they have been connected- at least in America, not to mention venues like the Folies Bergere in Paris, ever since then...
Not only that, performers like isadora Duncan, Ruth St. Denis , Caroline La Belle Otero, and Collette not to mention Mata Hari, performed "orienetal dances" ( NOT raks sharqi, but "eastern" style/fusions) topless or nearly nude on many occaisions.
Burlesque performers appropriated moves from oriental dance, oriental dancers adapted the two-piece bedlah- style costume from the world of burlesque, carnivals and circus sideshows, as well as nightclubs, extravanzas like the Zeigfield Follies, employed strippers AND belly dancers, I could go on and on and on......
anyone who thinks they are notconnected is in total denial.
AND performers in both disciplines routinely were self-sufficient, they were their own bosses, hired their own dance companies, bands, chorus girls, etc and supported their families without having to slave away in factories or a kitchen,,,,, -
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Re: Curiousness (for da Princess and everyone else)
Fri, February 29, 2008 - 12:21 AMTHANK YOU!!!
This topic has been taken up lots of conversation time. Especially after watching, these clips. ( I really wish I had recorded them now).
Between talking about how George Burns and Gracie Allen, Abbott and Costello, the Marx Brothersand many others got to where they did, accompanied by pastie-clad and feather covered ladies... who helped make the show a success.
It was awesome to get to watch footage of some of the greats and even the ones who didn't make it to the 'star' list.
There was some classic Bettie Page to be found in the midst of this stuff.
I understand that many of the modern mainstream or popular belly dancers want to distance themselves from the 'no different than strippers' mentality.... But, you cannot tweak your art forms timeline.... its a real disservice to the American History of it.
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Re: Curiousness (for da Princess and everyone else)
Fri, April 11, 2008 - 1:36 PMI find what you say interesting to read..
and I am very interested and attracted to burlesque art.
However, I do feel a bit uncomfortable with mingling the history of the dance which is one quintessentially MidEastern dance with American arts history.. while I am sure the performances you are talkin about in the US or Europe were done by great ladies - and I can totally see the admiration for women dancers at the beginning of the last century as great business women in an era where women could do little other than bringing up children if wealthy, or do slavework in industry or other ppl s homes if poor - I am thinkin of great Berlin in the 20ies... or Paris or Vienna at the turn of the last century. must have been such a great era for these arts..
but well I amnot 100% comfortable with mingling the history of the Mideastern women s movement and art with the work of certainly creative and daring women in the European and American lands who knew very little about the culture they were pretending to represent in most cases.. just thinkin of Mata Hari, Indian dance from childhood on, yeah right.. not to say she s not an incredible personality, but this story is representative for so many to me, many women who took little more than their inspiration from the MidEast and are now being referred to as oriental dance history.. which they are actually not, if one is precise. They were variete dancers who were inspired by cultures they perceived as exotic and wild and different..
It s just that I feel a bit of discomfort here, and the need to say "yes, BUT.." :)
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Re: Curiousness (for da Princess and everyone else)
Fri, April 11, 2008 - 1:25 PMYour Highness,
what an honour talking to you here ;)
I ordered some dvds from you a few months ago - to be honest have not worked on them (the raks and roll, and veil) because i m really very very much of a beginner .. but love watchin them !!
i got your basics as a gift for my birthday a few weeks ago, and am only waiting for a knee injury to get better :)
well i preordered the underbelly documentary already in february or so, and watched it eagerly :
i like it a lot - the burlesque sequences sometimes even more than the bellydance ones!! is there a good burlesque performance dvd of you and/or others you d recommend??? i love this republican convention performance by a lady whose name i unfortunately cant remember now a lot, too.. is this available somewhere??
plus, after the movie i hope i ll ever go to california or somewhere else in the US and be able to take a class with you!!
best wishes from vienna,
dina
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