what taxes would you consider more/less fair?

topic posted Sat, October 31, 2009 - 4:20 AM by  Evan
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In the "The New Atheists" thread, an tangent has started about taxation. I'm interested in what others think of taxes. Personally, I don't favor taxation of any kind, but...since the topic was brought up here, I thought I'd post this.

What type of taxation are you in favor of, and/or against? Why or why not?

I think the Wage Tax seems absolutely regressive and immoral, personally. I think of it as slavery, and think it ought rightly be considered a violation of both Article 1 and the 13th Amendment to the US Constitution. I'd like to see the IRS abolished and replaced with nothing at all, but if we must have tax, I'd favor something that NEVER taxes wages in any way, shape or form.

If we must have taxation, there are a few that I'd consider "less evil" than wage taxation. Here they are, and roughly what I think the rates should be...

Corporate income taxation. A sliding scale based upon the damage done to society by the corporation. Polluters and manufacturers of consumable products that raise the cost of medical care would be taxed highest, while corporations that manufacture goods that do neither would be taxed lowest. Some method of measuring damage would have to be worked out. For example, one form of corporate tax I'd favor is a Progressive Energy Tax to be levied only on energy generating corporations. 33% income tax on all profits earned from energy generated by nuclear and fossil fuels. 0% tax on all income earned from renewable sources of energy that do not pollute.

Capital gains taxation for the rich only. If your total capital gains are under $50,000, no tax. If they are between $50k and $500k, tax rate of 10%. If they are more than $500k, tax rate of 20%. If they are over $5M, tax rate of 30%. The only deduction would be for capital gains that are immediately re-invested into new long-term saving/investment plans or spent directly on medical care...all liquidated capital gains would be subject to the tax.

National Sales Tax. 0% on food, medicine, water, clothing. 10% on most other products. 5% on automobiles of all varieties with an MPG rating of 50 or higher (0% on autos with 100 mpg or higher). 10% on automobiles of all types with an MPG between 25 and 50. 25% on automobiles of all types with an MPG below 25. 25% on liquor, cigarettes, sugar drinks, and other luxury consumables that cause increased medical costs. 25% on planes and boats costing over $50k.

Estate Tax. 0% on estates under $10M. 2% on estates from $10M to $100M. 5% on estates between $100M and $1B. 10% on estates over $1B. No escaping this through a living trust or other tax loophole.

Here are three links to more information on alternative taxation plans:

Center for American Progress
"A Fair and Simple Tax System for our Future"
A "progressive" income tax alternative.
www.americanprogress.org/issue...0.html

Americans For Fair Taxation
"The Fair Tax"
Would abolish the IRS and make a national sales tax to replace it.
www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

Large Listings of Proposals before Congress:
www.cob.sjsu.edu/nellen_a/txrefupd.html
posted by:
Evan
Los Angeles
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  • Re: what taxes would you consider more/less fair?

    Sat, October 31, 2009 - 6:53 AM
    The more I think about the more I wonder if a national sales or national value-added tax would be better.

    For starters, that would tax consumption, not income. More environmentally-friendly in the long run.

    Also, it would be easier to administer - taxes collected at the point of sale, with far fewer taxpayers (basically just business-producers). You could abolish the IRS and let the states collect the taxes.
    • Re: what taxes would you consider more/less fair?

      Sat, October 31, 2009 - 9:09 AM
      "The more I think about the more I wonder if a national sales or national value-added tax would be better.

      For starters, that would tax consumption, not income. More environmentally-friendly in the long run."


      The problem with that is that the poor and middle class end up paying a much higher percentage of their income on taxes... basically, because they end up spending most to everything of what they earn just to live. The rich, who invest the majority of their income end up paying a very small percentage of their income to taxes.


      I, personally, would get rid of personal income taxes and tax profits at the source before salaries and wages are paid. It would be a pretty small percentage, but would be taken before any spending (no tax write-offs). This takes the bureaucracy out of our personal lives. It would also make the cost of collecting taxes a fraction of what it is now as we wouldn't be spending all that money on processing millions of individual tax forms, return checks, audits, etc. And it gets rid of the true benefit of fringe benefits... that no income tax is paid on those benefits.

      I could even see doing something like making accountants licensed by the state and operating as tax agents. Then the businesses could pay for part of their salary, while taxes pay for part of their salary... making the taxing process cheaper to the tax payer while making accounting costs cheaper for businesses. And accountants become responsible for making sure that profits that should be taxed are, instead of vice-versa.

      Beyond that, sales taxes that go to paying for the things they use... i.e. gas and vehicle taxes that are used to pay for roads. I also think things that are destructive to a community and/or environment should be taxed in order to balance that out... i.e. gas taxes that go to environmental cleaning and to help pay for public transportation.

      Property taxes, I don't like. Fire dept's, hospitals, parks, etc. should be paid for by the "income" taxes. Anything that makes it hard or impossible to do something for no profit has to go.
      • Re: what taxes would you consider more/less fair?

        Sat, October 31, 2009 - 11:32 AM
        I would like to be given a list of all general fed. expenditures ( education, military, NASA etc.) and 100 % points. once a year I would chose where my 100 tax points would go, spread out however I choose. There would be a 2 year lead time for the budget we all assign our $$ to, with a certain % set aside for non variables ( SSI, Vet. care etc, ) It would be up to each of the Fed Dept's to do what they can with the money that the American PEOPLE have budgeted them. Not the self serving Corp-Government wonks.
        If you don't have enough money to go to Mars........stay home ! Not enough $$ for two wars ? Bring em home !

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