as they say-stop searching for the truth--
simply let go of your beleifs--

<<<So, rather than the religion, which is only a brand, the real culprit is our intrinsic capacity to want to further our own agendas. The human physiology is to blame here, our own cognitive inclination. >>>

When I point out many of the negative aspects of faith and belief in imagined ideologies and flawed logic, I get the excuse "It's not religions fault". I find that to be pure bullshit. It's not the guns fault when a criminal uses it to kill someone, but if it were not for that gun being in the wrong hands administered in the wrong manner, that victem would still be alive. In the same manner we institute GUN CONTROL there should also be regulations to control the administration of religion instead of allowing these nut jobs to run amuk with it. We do not allow the layperson to prescribe themselves medication, so why should we allow a potentially deadly thing like religion to be self administered? The persons administering religion should be educated by professionals and be held accountable when someone is found to be taught some hateful throwed off bullshit. Like prescription drugs, uneducated persons SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED to administer it to others.

Religion IS the problem and it needs to be regulated so we dont have people like the muslim extremists with their throwed off ideologies. If the religion were regulated to educate the administrators by professionals and be properly administered, those retarded idiots wouldnt be able to keep teaching the hateful deadly shit to kids generation after generation. Without the religion, there would be no cognative inclination to abuse it. The same thing goes for guns, alcohol and drugs. Those things ARE the problem and we need to get a handle on them.

Amy
<<<When you hit rock bottom, who do you turn to?

If you don’t have a higher power... a belief in something....how can you function?>>>

Are you serious? I have faith in MYSELF! In my younger days I played music in the clubs and I experimented with drugs. I got into shooting cocaine and had a habit of three 8 balls per day. I overdosed one day and was fortunate enough to live through it. It took me about an hour to recover my senses. When I did, I bent the needle over on my syringe and I gave the rest of the dope to my lead guitarist. I have never toushed it since that day. I didnt need any "higher power" or some imagined god because I know that to be bullshit. I had faith in myself and my ability to be self disciplined to just QUIT. It's not that hard to believe in yourself and not lean on something imagined for support. If you lean on a handrail, it will support you. If you lean on god as though it were a handrail, you're going to fall down. I believe in NOTHING spiritual, and I am quite strong as a result of it.

When I hit rock bottom, I turn to myself and I say "Self, get your ass up and get motivated". Because if I turned to god, my ass would still be sitting on rock bottom as that would be turning to flawed logic, lies and hearsay. I EXIST, and I know what needs to be done. So why would I rely on an imagined idea that didnt help me BEFORE I hit rock bottom? That is totally senseless from where I sit.

I have lost everything several times for many different reasons. Some as a result of my own ignorance, some for reasons totally beyond my control. But I always manage to pick myself up and move on without turning to some fantasy character like god. I take responsibility and I deal with it. I dont need the help of Tinkerbell, Humpy Dumpty or any other imagined fictional character. I can find absolutely no productive value in an imagined "higher power". To me that would just distract me as I ask the motherfucker why it let me get like that to start with then called it out for a good old fashioned ass whippin. I can find no productive value in anything "spiritual". Spirits/ghosts/invisible characters, these things do not pick up the tools and do the job, I DO. So why would I need them/it in times of crisis?

I think relying on an imagined "higher power" leads to mental illness. JMO
In case anyone forgot, there's so much to be learned in this;
www.youtube.com/watch

I do not mean to sound rude or anything like that. I just encourage people to believe in themselves and become rooted in reality instead of fictional characters.

<If you don’t have a higher power... a belief in something....how can you function?>

You function just like anybody else. One day at a time. You make a plan and you go with it. Ever since my wife got sick and things started going to hell, I have not wasted one moment in prayer. I am not back to where I was five year ago. Not even close. However I am much better than I was last year. Last year I was in a transitional housing program. (AKA shelter). Prayer did not get me out of the shelter. Working with plan A, plan B and plan C simultaneously did.

In short, I have never met a junkie who prayed to Jesus who did not shoot up. I never met a religious drunk be sober. I have seen good people suffer and bad people prosper, and as Lou Reed, my favorite philosopher, once put it, "there ain't no cure for bad luck."

I turn to friends...family...lovers...my own sense of inner guidance.

No "higher power" required...other than the energy that is all around us, within us, between us...that's my form of spirituality...being present to all around me, and my own inner guidance. The Gnostic teaching...that all is within. The macrocosm in the microcosm. Namaste. In Lak'ech.

I think it's important to remember that before Enlightenment philosophers separated Religion and Science, religion was really the sole repository of the accumulated knowledge of people, however flawed. It's really inaccurate to portray religion as a sort of outside force which acts upon society, rather, it evolved, ironically enough, along with people as a natural extension and tool for understanding the world around us.

Now that we find ourselves in a new situation where much of the ideas religion espouses seem more akin to superstition, it certainly does seem outdated, but it won't be gotten rid of as simply as turning off a light switch.

Personally, i think what we're seeing in the recent volatile outlashings from certain world religions are really just the death throes of a dying animal, but again, I don't think you can expect them to go away over night, considering that they've been around for millenia.

Religion was used to explain the unexplainable....

If you couldn’t put a name on it . Well the gods did it.

"I didn’t do bad things ...it was the devil" etc...

So if you honor the god, you wont turn purple & die.. If you do then you must of not followed the rules. You can justify things till the cows come home...


But religion can be a comfort as well..

Amy:-)

my son and I were just talking about that during lunch, BA

Belief is not religion. We all believe in things that we may not have absolute reason to accept or expect. I believe I will be alive next week though I have no absolute reason to think that. Belief is a part of the human brain. Religion is a despicable abuse of belief, used by both the well intentioned and the craven to rule over idiots who refuse to think for themselves.

As long as we live in a world, largely surrounded by this problem, it would be churlish of you to expect us to "distance ourselves" from it.

here are some well wrought and passionate responses here, but if you can distance yourself enough from your own contextual prejudice you will see that religion, like politics, like patriotism, like so many social constructs, is only a symptom and not the root cause.

Even an athiest is believing in something, even if what they believe in is "nothing" it still qualifies as something; a belief structure. So in this aspect the athiest, non-thiest as I prefer to consider myself, has constructed a system that has membership and prameters for consistancy.

It's us, the problem is us. "<<

I agree with most of what you say. And it is " us", It's human nature, one cannot change that. We are not the " problem" per-say, we are the experience, and we experience each other. It's how we learn in this life, it's why we're here.
What you believe, where you expect to go after this, what you will, or will not take with you, are hoped for, you have faith in that eventual outcome. But realistically, we don't " know to a certainty", unless your faith is blind.
We can only function is this life with one decision, " Am I going to lead my life as a good person ? "
Hammering everyone that disagrees with you, making them doubt themselves, and the loved ones that taught them, Is not the way of a good person.
"You're all wrong, and you're the problem", can only bring strife and contention, living under this dark cloud is not a good thing, and nothing good ever comes of it. I don't care who says it, or why, it is high handed judgmentalisum. Generally a sign of a scared little person who would rather find fault in someone else's path, than beauty in their own.
That's why though I'm still a Minister, I am no longer a, " Christin" minister, not even a Christian. Because Christians, by and large are a " Christ is the ONLY way" lot.
"There are 10,000 paths to the next life, and 10,000 doors on each. Who am I to say any are locked ? " Do no harm, and travel your own path, it's your way, not mine.
OK, everyone, repeat after me, " It's your path not mine, It's your................"

<Even an athiest is believing in something, even if what they believe in is "nothing" it still qualifies as something; a belief structure. So in this aspect the athiest, non-thiest as I prefer to consider myself, has constructed a system that has membership and prameters for consistancy.>

Which is absolutely no interest to me. If you follow PZ Meyer's blog, he has some interesting observations about trying to turn atheism into a religion. When you try to tell me what I do not believe in, you are indulging in religion's worse and most annoying habit. Atheism is the lack of belief.

<It's us, the problem is us.>

As there is no god, the problem has always been us. This is what I have been saying all along.

<How do we solve the problem?>

A good start would be to stop projecting your needs and your beliefs on other people.

Jai
<<<There are some well wrought and passionate responses here, but if you can distance yourself enough from your own contextual prejudice you will see that religion, like politics, like patriotism, like so many social constructs, is only a symptom and not the root cause.>>>

I find that religion is nothing more than a crutch like alcohol or drugs. like drugs, alcohol and even guns, the problem is the liklihood of people abusing these things. The gun is not responsible when someone picks it up and murders someone, but we still have gun control. I think the solution to the abuses regarding religion is the regulation of those administering it. We do not allow persons to prescribe their own medication as that allows for abuse. The same thing goes for religion. When people are allowed to administer it to themselves absent peoper education, it can be adverse and even deadly. I think religion needs to be regulated and administered by trained qualified professionals.

<<<Even an athiest is believing in something, even if what they believe in is "nothing" it still qualifies as something; a belief structure. So in this aspect the athiest, non-thiest as I prefer to consider myself, has constructed a system that has membership and prameters for consistancy. >>>

I disagree with this. Calling my lack of belief a belief is like calling someone who does not collect stamps participating in a hobby. My choice is an open mind that is not influenced by ancient imagined ideologies, lies and hearsay. Whatever is is, and anything other than that is yet to be proven. Fashioning belief from the unknown is flawed logic at best. So how can I logically fashion a belief out of disregard for that which is not proven? That dog wont hunt....

BadAss
<<<"...the real culprit is our intrinsic capacity to want to further our own agendas."

And organized religion gives us the perfect vehicle for this. >>>

VERY TRUE!

Jai
<<<Even an athiest is believing in something, even if what they believe in is "nothing" it still qualifies as something; a belief structure. So in this aspect the athiest, non-thiest as I prefer to consider myself, has constructed a system that has membership and prameters for consistancy.>>>

So not collecting stamps is a hobby?Ha!Ha! I consider myself to be a fan of reality, not atheist or non-theist. I do not see it in the same manner you do, which is fine, but I disagree with the idea that I am a part of the problem which involves religion. You say the problem is us. I do not see the logic of this idea. A group of ancient people had ideas that others share and it has nothing to do with me other than their attempts to oppress me. I mind my own business and if they did the same, there wouldnt be any problem.

jai, I like the cut of your gib. This idea that we think inspires the goal of our momentum thru these relationships, whatever they are: Like G*D or our sense of higher ground, or something Numinous, is ultimately FOR ME what makes me CHECK a box that I've bridged the physical and have begun to participate in something that may give me self-actualization. For belief systems that are about conforming to the negation of normalcy or tradition is not an apophatic fact. If we can say belief inspires un-belief, because Nothing is Outside the Known...then we only deal with what-IS. So, your IDEAL IS, as is MINE and Peace will be the surrendering of the trappings of identity... of which we have nothing proven.

Rev Ro: "I've always felt that people create social groups to suit their needs...whether its religion, a cult or social club."

Here's an essay that I serendipitously came across this morning that discusses the creation of social groups in conenction with religion and warfare. The author (who has a website that I greatly enjoy because of his analysis of current world events in their historical contexts) makes the argument that religion does not cause war, instead war causes religion. It's a long read, but interesting.

www.generationaldynamics.com/cgi...D.PL

<..."Religion is a despicable abuse of belief, used by both the well intentioned and the craven to rule over idiots who refuse to think for themselves"...>

This is a beautiful summation of the true problem...the human condition. We, as a people, are primarily followers. Those who are leaders are not all governed by a sense of altruism, which would impart restraint and cautious judgment as one realizes that others are relying upon them. Rather, more leaders increasingly grow their egos, and few are able to maintain enough humility to govern well. This is true in political and religious circles, as well as other forums. There are a select few out there that may not be leaders, but also may not care enough about society's opinion of their eccentric ways to worry about marching to the tune of their particular drum. However, a minority has never been able to foot change effectively...the masses enable this, so more bullying personalities remain at the helm, and we remain at their mercy. Yet, we do have a decision to make in the matter. We can employ means to remain effectual for ourselves and our immediate communities. Change does start with each of us...and the fertilizer in our corner of the world does make a difference. We need to give this importance and follow through, even when mainstream is kicking us down. Looking within is critical, as it employs individuals to live and let live, even if their government is attempting to run their lives. No one can run anyone's life without their direct consent. The mind is a powerful thing. Employing one's mind to be where that individual wants to be is the best means of responding to control freaks. When they see how peaceful individuals can remain in spite of their activity, they will grow frustrated.