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i recently spoke about my interest in communities with a friend. he had actually lived with a community for a couple of years and his suggestion for me was to live in at least one community for a while to experience what it was like...
while this sounds like an all-around good idea, his suggestion to live within a community firsthand in particular stemmed from his experience of communication with both community and its individual community members. Experiencing the process of communication, with its difficulties, was something he recommends people do if they are interested in community living.
this thread relates to the art of Communication.
while this sounds like an all-around good idea, his suggestion to live within a community firsthand in particular stemmed from his experience of communication with both community and its individual community members. Experiencing the process of communication, with its difficulties, was something he recommends people do if they are interested in community living.
this thread relates to the art of Communication.
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habits 4, 5 and 6
Tue, January 31, 2006 - 8:17 PMi listened to an audio-recording of a talk by Stephen Covey on '7 habits of highly effective people'. it includes a method for communicating in a way that allowed for synergistic solutions to emerge between people, solutions better than either one had to start with.
to summarise...
1...(think win-win) say 'why don't we agree to communicate until we both come up with a solution that we both feel good about'. (i think it's important to actually reach this agreement before skipping straight to the listening bit, especially as some people may not otherwise be committed to reaching an agreement in the first place. the alternative is no deal - agree to disagree agreably)
2...(seek first to understand, then to be understood) listen to the other person and make them feel understood by hearing it back in your words. only then do you seek to have the other person understand you.
3...(synergise) use everyone's creative capacities to come up with a better solution (and not a compromise).
i'd love to provide the examples he used to elucidate in depth this method but anyone can get hold of his book by the same name from the library, it's worth a read not just for that alone...some basic principles for living are contained therein. -
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Re: habits 4, 5 and 6
Mon, March 6, 2006 - 4:25 PMWhy not make up some examples of your own, put them into a Raw Foodism context, and publish them on DVD for other Raw Fooders?
Brett
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Re: habits 4, 5 and 6
Wed, April 12, 2006 - 4:25 AMWell, i really don't know enough to go around telling people how to communicate. It really is such a complicated matter that the above method is just a crude template to work with. Other things one might require: a lot of patience, dedication, motivation, consideration, attention to detail, ability to accept being at fault, forgiveness, ability to listen to or put to words what might be unspoken...the list goes on, please add to it if you wish!
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Re: art of Communication
Thu, February 28, 2008 - 3:55 AMNonviolent communication! i think it would offer a lot to communities as a communication style.
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Unsu...
Re: art of Communication
Mon, March 17, 2008 - 3:09 AMI think this is a really important post. Communication is the foundation of all successful communities. I think alot of people create idealised notions of these wonderful raw vegan eco communities, but neglect to think that eating animals and cooked food is not the only problem our current cultures have. It goes alot deeper than that. We are living in a world which reflects our internal chaos. People are stuck with this dichotomy of God complexes, and with insecurities and passivity. Certain people are in control, and subscribe willingly to the delusions of modern culture such as money, working, medicine, eating animals, destruction, religion etc. because they are passive. They have not learned to feel powerful or pro-active, constructively, because they have not learned to be flexible enough in the way they communicate with others.
If people dont communicate with each other, and by communicate, I mean listen, and talk, and know when and how to do both, then all communities will fail.
The culture we have created at this moment in time, is a reflection, a mirror, so we can look, observe and learn from its mistakes. We cannot afford to miss out on a single mistake if we wish to create a successful new 'paradise'.
We cannot afford to delude ourselves that simply meeting up with a load of other raw fooders means paradise will come. People are self-unaware. They observe flaws in others, make demands of others, judge others, dont empathise with others, because its e asier to project externally, than it is to focus internally.
In my opinion people make 2 mistakes when thinking about new communities:
1) Either having no structure, no order, no system of governing.
2) Having one or a few people making all the rules for everyone else to follow, and not listening to others. ( and especially, people who dont really know what theyre doing).
3) Not being emotionally developed enough to handle the new situation. People willingly project the flaws of modern culture, but dont realise those same flaws in themselves. Perception IS projection. I see alot of people wanting to join communities who are really just escaping from a world they didnt know how to behave in, or succeed or thrive in. If you arent effective, potent, confident, assertive and empathic in your communication in one world, its because you havent learned to be. There is nothing stopping you except yourself. Your beliefs about yourself and others. If you want to be happy in one world, you have to be happy, period. When you're happy living in one world, GENUINELY, and are productive, successful, confident, healthy and great at communicating with others, AND you recognise that you still desire something more in keeping with your true nature, then move. People often skip this though, and blame it all on others, and use illogical rationales such as "Ill be ok when...happens"
I understand its difficult to really KNOW someone until you have lived with them. And so you can think a person may be one way, but prove in reality to be another. We cant really prove to ourselves fully that someone will be a good communicator, a good listener, mediator, in advance. But what we can do is not make sure that when we want to join or create a community, we try to consider all practicalities.
I think a few important ideas, when considering communication is:
1) NLP proficiency. I know its a system, but its a pretty good base for communication. Its pro-active, encourages thinking of things from multiple perspectives, deals with alot of common irrationalities in communication, and improves interactions with others.
2) Have a good understanding of something like Gurdjieff's work, self-applied. You need to be aware of your own flaws, delusions, and intentions. Its no good noticing things in others only. I really liked the book "Waking Up: overcoming the obstacles to human potential" By Charles T Tart, as an introduction to these concepts.
3) Learn to identify your own strengths and weaknesses, with respect to skills and capabilities, emotional triggers, interactions with others...and work on them...and dont kid yourself that theyre fixed or that they will be, when theyre not, because they wont fix themselves.
4) Re-program yourself to think in terms of solutions. People focus too much on what they dont want, and not enough on what they do what. If you intend to live with others long-term you need to start thinking of solutions. Good ones. ...And make them concrete. Are they realistic and achievable by yourself and the people youre with? What would be the benefits and losses of this? What complications need to be overcome, and how can you do this? What needs to happen in order for this solution to take place? What are the first smalles steps that can be taken? Break the plan down into managable chunks. You need to learn to do this process quickly in your head.
5) Learn to question ideas, comments, behaviours, responses etc. in an empathic, yet assertive, constructive manner. NLP should help with this, but it really is important. Without challenge, people will spin off out of control.
6) You need to learn to weigh people up very quickly, what their strengths and weaknesses are, how you can work on then, whether they are willing to work on them, what dynamic they will bring to a group. Without an appropriate risk assessment, things wont work.
7) Develop systems and groups where people can check-in with comments, compliments, complaints, concerns, in trust that things will be sorted. I think little feedback boxes for group discussion are a good idea, as are group think tanks, where people can ask questions, with boundaries...ie. No interrupting, listening, responding to whats been said, rather than internal processes etc.
8) Unity in decision making. People need to be prepared for the fact that one of the reasons democracy doesnt work is because not everyone gets to have their say, not everyone gets what they want. I think its Switzerland that currently has one of the most effective democratic systems because the people are in control. They get to vote on ideas being passed, they can repeal them, or hold public debates etc. This is what needs to be considered with a group dynamic in a community. EVERYONE needs to be in agreement. Like Rachan said, a great idea is that people keep talking and keep talking, and listening, until a common agreement is come upon. If there is dissent somewhere along the way, then it wont be long until passivity turns into explosion, and there will be anarchy.
I think people dont realise that starting something new will take alot of work and alot of mental effort...at first. Until things become second nature it will take a lot of work.
I think people need to be very careful about the people they select to join communities, what their belief systems are, and how this will affect others.
Generally I would think that a community should be group-led to be effective. Everything should be a collective. However, with that, there still needs to be a little structure.
Theres a great article called "The Tyranny of structurelessness", which I feel is worth a read if anyone is interested. www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm
Well thats my 2 cents anyway.
Take Care
Adam x -
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Re: art of Communication
Tue, September 16, 2008 - 1:54 AMHi Adam,
thanks for your post. I've been away tribe for a while so only just read it. It looks like you've unsubscribed and gone since then but i'll pretend you're still here and respond anyway.
"It goes a lot deeper than that. [...] People are self-unaware."
In this part you nicely bring attention to the context that is the personal, political and cultural world which we all live in, the environment and community with which we live together and communicate, and from which we can learn from in our efforts to create a raw community. And the rabbit hole goes deep indeed, and I highly recommend watching Adam Curtis's documentaries for some profound insights into modern history to help set the context of our lives.
But I'd also suggest, and I think this is what you are also saying Adam, that good communication with oneself is vital, and from which good communication with others is mirrored. Our inner life is reflected in our outer life, each dynamically influences the other to varying degrees and we must keep sight of this dual dynamically entwined context of inner and outer life so that we can all live harmoniously together.
"Well thats my 2 cents anyway"
Thanks for those important points of consideration Adam, and the link. I'll go over them again and check out that link, looks like a good read!
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